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Helpful ReplyHot!3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool!

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ShadowMAN280x
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 10:59:07 (permalink)
To confirm, their is no thermal pads over the backside VRM's stock? Stock,there is only thermal pad over the gpu?
Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 11:09:14 (permalink)
ShadowMAN280x
To confirm, their is no thermal pads over the backside VRM's stock? Stock,there is only thermal pad over the gpu?



On the backplate side of the card, there's only this stock, plus a small pad over the backside of the Die (you can see the gray pastey stuff it left) :
 


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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 14:34:00 (permalink)
I've followed this thread and it all seems like a bit much yet it's something I want to do.

Economic reasons aside, is there any reason I can just cover the entire dang thing in pads, put the back plate back on, and mount heatsinks to all available space on the backplate?
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 15:17:28 (permalink)
Toieo
I've followed this thread and it all seems like a bit much yet it's something I want to do.

Economic reasons aside, is there any reason I can just cover the entire dang thing in pads, put the back plate back on, and mount heatsinks to all available space on the backplate?



Someone else tried exactly that, and it actually resulted in some very odd temperatures.  I did a mono-pad for the entire GPU die/VRAM area, and it didn't perform as well as individual pads either.  I have no idea WHY, but yeah.  I am planning to test that again now that I have the thermal paste on the back of the card, I figure maybe now it will work better, but it's worth doing an A to B comparison.
My plan is to wait for the new pads to get here for the memory, take the card apart, put the mono-pad in, test with that, then if temps are higher than before (which I'm expecting they will be, but I want to check), I'll go back to individual pads, and put 12.8W/mK pads on all the memory modules on the backplate side.
That last option should result in about as good of temps as I can get, while still being completely "safe" for daily use/no risk of heatsinks bridging components like there would be if they were direct mounted.
 
Worth noting, Direct mounting, because of the lack of pressure, is actually a mixed back of results, at least it was for me, I'm sure if someone did 0.5mm double sided adhesive pads, it would have better results, but here's what I'm running currently, vs when I had direct pad to component setup:
 
Now (Paste on backplate plus heatsinks with only component coverage pads, 2 of the memory pads are 6W/mK, 2 are 12.8W/mK cuz I didn't have enough 12 to do all) :

 
Vs direct mount pad to component:
 

 
Definitely not worth it to risk direct pad to component imo when the temp results, for me at least, were that small of a decrease on some, and not even a decrease on others.
The VRMs are already running so cool that those decreases in temp really don't matter - and the better pads (which I can't use on direct contact because it's double-stacked 1mm pads with no stickyness so the heatsink would slide) do more good through the backplate, than the 6W pads do with direct mounting on components.
 
I think once I get the 12W pads on all memory, I might be able to get lower temps across the board, compared to my direct mount numbers.  I'm already close.

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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 16:46:45 (permalink)
Yeah I've been following along pretty well and I'm trying to figure out something like this would work in a vertical orientation.
 
I saw back on page 7 (iirc) you outlined what areas need to be padded with what thickness, any changes to that? Or is there a "final revision" master somewhere that can be used as a guide? There was nothing on youtube for this particular project that I could find.
 
I figured if I take off the plate, slap a monster piece on there, and then attach the sinks with sticky back, they would sit vertically okay.
 
I would love to do this project but I have a 60 hour a week job and 5 kids. I can carve out an afternoon but not week after week tinkering to get it just right.
Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 17:29:03 (permalink)
Toieo
Yeah I've been following along pretty well and I'm trying to figure out something like this would work in a vertical orientation.
 
I saw back on page 7 (iirc) you outlined what areas need to be padded with what thickness, any changes to that? Or is there a "final revision" master somewhere that can be used as a guide? There was nothing on youtube for this particular project that I could find.
 
I figured if I take off the plate, slap a monster piece on there, and then attach the sinks with sticky back, they would sit vertically okay.
 
I would love to do this project but I have a 60 hour a week job and 5 kids. I can carve out an afternoon but not week after week tinkering to get it just right.



Those measurements are accurate as far as I have tested yes.  You CAN put 2mm pads even on the VRM areas, but they will be squished to the point of not being too reusable if you remove the backplate multiple times, they may get damaged (one of mine did).  2mm on almost everywhere, 1.5mm on the VRM "boxes", should be perfect.
You can definitely just use Thermal tape with the heatsinks - it doesn't perform as well as paste or pads, between the heatsinks & the backplate, but it still helps with heat dissipation, and that would definitely work for vertical mounting. 
If you did thermal paste, it depends on the paste... a lot of thermal paste is "sticky" enough that the heatsinks won't move.  In my case, I have thermal taped heatsinks on either side of the thermal pasted heatsinks, so I could in theory mount my card vertically again, whenever I'm done messing with it.
 
Basically if you want to do something that will definitely improve temps, and be vertically mountable - buy the heatsinks, some thermal tape, and the pads to do under the backplate.  The most time consuming part will be cutting up the thermal pads, doing the heatsinks & tape is a pretty fast process once you get the hang of it, as long as you semi-steady hands.  At least mine wasn't too bad, I got 20mm tape, if I had gotten 40mm tape it would've been much simpler since the heatsinks I have are 40 x 40mm.
You COULD do just a single slab of thermal pad, basically cut it for the entire area of the inside of the backplate, slap it on the backplate itself (so you know it's lined up right) then stick it back on.  If you're not wanting to mess with it continually, that would work just fine.
Pretty sure all you'd need for that is just 200 x 200mm thermal pad that's 2mm thick, cut it to size, and boom.  Won't be as dramatic a drop in temps as being more specific with where you put them, but it will still improve over stock, a fair bit, and take less time to do overall, by a lot.  All told I'd be surprised if it takes more than 1-2 hours, as long as you're prepared with all the tools needed to do it (something to cut the pads with, proper sized screw driver to remove the backplate screws, which I had to search for because the heads on them are a lot smaller than I thought, but not small enough to be doable with my tiny tiny screw drivers, the tape to put the heatsinks on, and scissors to cut the tape).
 
That's a big part of why I wanted to do this thread & get other people's inputs on what they've experienced & tested so we can compare notes, and put together a "simple" guide that pretty much anyone can do, and just do it once then forget about it, while still getting better temperatures.
 
I was going to do a pretty in depth measurements thing on the mono-pad as I like to call it, but with the fact that it didn't exactly perform "great", I haven't yet.  I am planning to re-test it though, with the thermal paste backplate - basically want to have "minimal effort" vs "maximum effort" numbers, minimal effort being the "mono-pad" that covers almost everything with a single pad, maximum effort being the pads only where they're actually "needed" with proper 1.5mm pads on the VRM areas where needed.

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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/01 23:19:53 (permalink)
Dabadger84
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Bit of an odd question, but I just completed this mod and been having it reach thermal equilibrium via mining. My temps on the iCX sensors are ~8-10c lower, but memory junction has now gone up from ~94c max to 100-102c max. Does junction read from the front chips and I somehow wiggled a pad loose? Or do y'all think I need a fan over the backplate heatsinks now since its heatsoaking? Any help would be appreciated, this has got me stumped.
 
 
EDIT: Would the torque on the backplate screws (mounting pressure) affect this in anyway y'all think? Too much, too little, etc




I don't think backplate screws being loose would effect it very much, they're kind of hard to leave "lose", you don't want to overtighten them & strip the screws either.
 
Are you sure you have good contact on all the pads on the backplate side of the card?  Your junction temp definitely shouldn't have went up, unless something on the die-side came loose.
 



Yeah I pulled the backplate off and everything back there looks like your pictures, good contact and coverage everywhere, so I guess something came loose on the other side. Think at this point I'll grab some Fujipoly and redo the all the mem chips, front and back, and use some Kryonaut on the die. 2 questions to everyone here though, can you stack thermal pads? And also, what are the thicknesses needed for the front side?
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 05:15:14 (permalink)
Dabadger84
Toieo
Yeah I've been following along pretty well and I'm trying to figure out something like this would work in a vertical orientation.
 
I saw back on page 7 (iirc) you outlined what areas need to be padded with what thickness, any changes to that? Or is there a "final revision" master somewhere that can be used as a guide? There was nothing on youtube for this particular project that I could find.
 
I figured if I take off the plate, slap a monster piece on there, and then attach the sinks with sticky back, they would sit vertically okay.
 
I would love to do this project but I have a 60 hour a week job and 5 kids. I can carve out an afternoon but not week after week tinkering to get it just right.



Those measurements are accurate as far as I have tested yes.  You CAN put 2mm pads even on the VRM areas, but they will be squished to the point of not being too reusable if you remove the backplate multiple times, they may get damaged (one of mine did).  2mm on almost everywhere, 1.5mm on the VRM "boxes", should be perfect.
You can definitely just use Thermal tape with the heatsinks - it doesn't perform as well as paste or pads, between the heatsinks & the backplate, but it still helps with heat dissipation, and that would definitely work for vertical mounting. 
If you did thermal paste, it depends on the paste... a lot of thermal paste is "sticky" enough that the heatsinks won't move.  In my case, I have thermal taped heatsinks on either side of the thermal pasted heatsinks, so I could in theory mount my card vertically again, whenever I'm done messing with it.
 
Basically if you want to do something that will definitely improve temps, and be vertically mountable - buy the heatsinks, some thermal tape, and the pads to do under the backplate.  The most time consuming part will be cutting up the thermal pads, doing the heatsinks & tape is a pretty fast process once you get the hang of it, as long as you semi-steady hands.  At least mine wasn't too bad, I got 20mm tape, if I had gotten 40mm tape it would've been much simpler since the heatsinks I have are 40 x 40mm.
You COULD do just a single slab of thermal pad, basically cut it for the entire area of the inside of the backplate, slap it on the backplate itself (so you know it's lined up right) then stick it back on.  If you're not wanting to mess with it continually, that would work just fine.
Pretty sure all you'd need for that is just 200 x 200mm thermal pad that's 2mm thick, cut it to size, and boom.  Won't be as dramatic a drop in temps as being more specific with where you put them, but it will still improve over stock, a fair bit, and take less time to do overall, by a lot.  All told I'd be surprised if it takes more than 1-2 hours, as long as you're prepared with all the tools needed to do it (something to cut the pads with, proper sized screw driver to remove the backplate screws, which I had to search for because the heads on them are a lot smaller than I thought, but not small enough to be doable with my tiny tiny screw drivers, the tape to put the heatsinks on, and scissors to cut the tape).
 
That's a big part of why I wanted to do this thread & get other people's inputs on what they've experienced & tested so we can compare notes, and put together a "simple" guide that pretty much anyone can do, and just do it once then forget about it, while still getting better temperatures.
 
I was going to do a pretty in depth measurements thing on the mono-pad as I like to call it, but with the fact that it didn't exactly perform "great", I haven't yet.  I am planning to re-test it though, with the thermal paste backplate - basically want to have "minimal effort" vs "maximum effort" numbers, minimal effort being the "mono-pad" that covers almost everything with a single pad, maximum effort being the pads only where they're actually "needed" with proper 1.5mm pads on the VRM areas where needed.


Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'll keep watching the thread and see how things go. I have time as I'm still 65 in the queue which is going to put my awfully close to the April deadline. Which btw is going to upset me quite a lot after waiting 3 months if I get taxed an extra 200+ bucks through no fault of my own AND waiting for 3 months. Kinda messed up tbh
Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 06:03:27 (permalink)
Drunk_Chicken
 
Yeah I pulled the backplate off and everything back there looks like your pictures, good contact and coverage everywhere, so I guess something came loose on the other side. Think at this point I'll grab some Fujipoly and redo the all the mem chips, front and back, and use some Kryonaut on the die. 2 questions to everyone here though, can you stack thermal pads? And also, what are the thicknesses needed for the front side?



I'm trying to find out the thicknesses for the front/Die side myself before I try to redo them.
You can stack pads, that's what I've done with some of my 12.8W/mK pads that I'm using now on some of the memory, of which I'll be getting more in on Wednesday, I hope, to do the rest of the backside memory.  I have to stack those to get them to the right height since they're only 1mm and I need 2mm.
I wouldn't personally recommend wasting money on the 17W Fujipoly, because the memory doesn't put out enough heat for that to matter over just getting 12W pads, at least not according to Buildzoid's video on the subject - he did the math and roundabout came out with the memory for a 3090 drawing/putting out between 55 & 70W of heat, combined... so each individual Chip isn't putting out more than maybe 6W of heat?  Explains why me putting 12W pads on the few I've done it to dropped temps like it did, they're capable of drawing out more heat than the chips themselves can produce, so it's helping with PCB heatsoak etc more as a result.
 
That's what the gray ones are in this picture though, double stacked 1mm 12.8W/mK pads (it's like $14 for enough to do 2 sets of memory, kinda not cheap, but not too bad considering the job it does from what I've seen in testing so far): 
 

 
Those pads also fall apart/get damaged a LOT easier than the Aiyunni 6W pads too.  They're worse than the eVGA stock pads in terms of lack of durability/reusableness, which is why I'm only going to re-apply them one more time - when I get the new pads on Wednesday, I'm going to take the ones on the card now off, reinstall the mono-pad to test it, then I'll be doing the new ones & all that afterwards... that's assuming the mono performs worse, which I'm expecting it to, but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

It'd be really cool if the mono performs well, because it's almost one giant pad for the whole thing, there's a lot less loose pieces to work with... I might cut that one up so that the memory is cut out from it & I can put the gray pads on the memory instead. lol

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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 07:48:35 (permalink)
@Dabadger84, what do you think this thermal pad?  https://www.amazon.com/Iceberg-Thermal-DRIFTIce-120mm-0-5mm/dp/B08KYGP937?th=1
 
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 14:13:13 (permalink)
howe10888
@Dabadger84, what do you think this thermal pad?  https://www.amazon.com/Iceberg-Thermal-DRIFTIce-120mm-0-5mm/dp/B08KYGP937?th=1
 




I was peaking at those pads too. Seem tempting.
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 16:05:10 (permalink)
Clovis559
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@Dabadger84, what do you think this thermal pad?  https://www.amazon.com/Iceberg-Thermal-DRIFTIce-120mm-0-5mm/dp/B08KYGP937?th=1
 




I was peaking at those pads too. Seem tempting.


Their headquarter is in Arizona and there is an office in Hong Kong like Gelid Solution.  The Pads are all made in China.
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 16:05:35 (permalink)
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/02 23:43:39 (permalink)
https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/lu54zk/the_growler/

This thing is bad ass sorry this might be slightly off topic but wow just wow
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 00:07:39 (permalink)
Here is my attempt of cooling down the Backside VRAM:
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
I can't provide any numbers yet because the system isn't back together. 
I will come back to this topic once my computer moved to the new Case, is leak tested and running. 
 

Attached Image(s)



DZelmer
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 00:22:51 (permalink)
Lord Winchester
Here is my attempt of cooling down the Backside VRAM:
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
I can't provide any numbers yet because the system isn't back together. 
I will come back to this topic once my computer moved to the new Case, is leak tested and running. 
 


Is that a hdd block or a ram block?
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 00:30:03 (permalink)
DZelmer
Lord Winchester
Here is my attempt of cooling down the Backside VRAM:
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
I can't provide any numbers yet because the system isn't back together. 
I will come back to this topic once my computer moved to the new Case, is leak tested and running. 
 


Is that a hdd block or a ram block?



It’s the Mp5 waterblock
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 00:32:48 (permalink)

This is a HDD water block compared. This makes me want to move to a Z590 and a 11900k so it will not hit the Ram.
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 00:33:42 (permalink)
Clovis559
DZelmer
Lord Winchester
Here is my attempt of cooling down the Backside VRAM:










I can't provide any numbers yet because the system isn't back together. 
I will come back to this topic once my computer moved to the new Case, is leak tested and running. 



Is that a hdd block or a ram block?



It’s the Mp5 waterblock




 
Yeah, correct. 
 
It's the Backplatecooler from Mp5works.com


Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 04:56:09 (permalink)
howe10888
@Dabadger84, what do you think this thermal pad?  https://www.amazon.com/Iceberg-Thermal-DRIFTIce-120mm-0-5mm/dp/B08KYGP937?th=1
 



That's pretty expensive, but it's also all the pads you would need for all the memory, I think, with it being 120 x 40 x 2mm.  Might be worth a try indeed.
I'm gonna be done with mine after testing the mono-pad & the 12.8W/mK pads on just the memory though, swapping pads as many times as I have has went from being a fun experiment to being tiresome.  And I'm concerned that I'm going to strip the backplate screws if I keep removing it too many more times, so after I test the mono & see what temps are like, if they're worse, I'll be putting the 12W pads back on the memory, all of it this time, once I get more in today, then I'm done-done.  That should be pretty excellent, I expect further drops once the other two longer-sets of memory are under better pads with the thermal paste setup.

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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 04:57:43 (permalink)
Clovis559

This is a HDD water block compared. This makes me want to move to a Z590 and a 11900k so it will not hit the Ram.




 I knew that HDD block was going to be huge but DAYUM lol

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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 05:16:14 (permalink)
Dabadger84
Clovis559
 
This is a HDD water block compared. This makes me want to move to a Z590 and a 11900k so it will not hit the Ram.




 I knew that HDD block was going to be huge but DAYUM lol




 
I haven't touched a Hdd in years. How hot do they get? I really can't imagine they needed a cooling block this big at any time🤣


shoumpavlis
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 06:23:09 (permalink)
Ever since I got a replacement hybrid kit my memory temps are capping at 110 deg C (GPU Memory Junction Temp) in hwinfo and my performance is suffering. I replaced the pads front to back on the memory on the 3090 but I am still getting high temps and capping. Am I missing a component that I'm not putting a replacement pad on? 
 
Any advice would be great appreciated
Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 06:25:06 (permalink)
Lord Winchester
Dabadger84
Clovis559
 
This is a HDD water block compared. This makes me want to move to a Z590 and a 11900k so it will not hit the Ram.




 I knew that HDD block was going to be huge but DAYUM lol




 
I haven't touched a Hdd in years. How hot do they get? I really can't imagine they needed a cooling block this big at any time🤣



HDD blocks are one of many things that some companies came out with during when Liquid Cooling was really catching on, that are actually completely pointless/unnecessary. 
 
 

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Clovis559
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 09:56:29 (permalink)
Dabadger84
Lord Winchester
Dabadger84
Clovis559
 
This is a HDD water block compared. This makes me want to move to a Z590 and a 11900k so it will not hit the Ram.




 I knew that HDD block was going to be huge but DAYUM lol




 
I haven't touched a Hdd in years. How hot do they get? I really can't imagine they needed a cooling block this big at any time🤣



HDD blocks are one of many things that some companies came out with during when Liquid Cooling was really catching on, that are actually completely pointless/unnecessary. 
 
 




But if you need to cool something other then a HDD, there is a big ASS Block! 😭 I might pick up a few more just because they’re not really made anymore...
rangerscott
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 10:51:05 (permalink)
Is there a reason why every time I check this thread, it takes me to page 24?

<p>7820x @ 4ghz<br />X299 Dark<br />16gb ram @ 4ghz<br />3090 Ftw3 Ultra<br />Ssd storage<br />1000w G3</p>
emmett
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 10:53:06 (permalink)
This was my attempt, the shroud seemed pretty sturdy, so...


Currently using
Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7
 
EVGA 2080 TI KingPin
Intel 9900K
GSkill 3200
EVGA G2 1300 
Dabadger84
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 11:50:19 (permalink)
Will probably be a little inactive the next few days, had to put our younger dog to sleep because of kidney failure basically out of nowhere, so I'll be dealing with real life stuff.  Might do the pad update still just to give me sometime away from thinking about everything, but yeah, I probably won't post much in the next bit.

Save up to 10% on eVGA.com, use my Associates Code: 47AQQ6KPU2IZNXY
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Lord Winchester
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 13:02:09 (permalink)
Dabadger84
Will probably be a little inactive the next few days, had to put our younger dog to sleep because of kidney failure basically out of nowhere, so I'll be dealing with real life stuff.  Might do the pad update still just to give me sometime away from thinking about everything, but yeah, I probably won't post much in the next bit.


Sorry for your loss. 
 
Don't rush your project. It's not running away 


InfusionOfFear
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Re: 3090 (Kingpin & others!) - Get that backside VRAM cool! 2021/03/03 14:56:48 (permalink)
Dabadger84 - Oh no! Sorry to hear that.  
Is it worth putting something like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YPXXHSK (lots of room in my case above video card for a heatsink on the backplate) on the back of the backplate with https://www.amazon.com/nkomax-Thermalright-85x45x0-5mm-Conductive-Temperature/dp/B08CGR62QX ? I wouldn't be taking the backplate off or anything along those lines. Or do you have to do that to see a results of placing a heatsink on the back? 
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