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Hot!2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600MHz on Z590 FTW

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grechie
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2021/08/20 02:57:56 (permalink)
 
Hey all, some funny business is happening with my setup... so I'm hoping someone might know what is going on or point me in the right direction....long story short is I can boot into Windows no problems with the CPU multiplier set to "RatioLimit" and an all core of 30x or slower (CPU is a 11900K on EVGA CLC360)
 
Full story goes like this, I bought a pair of brand new Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz sticks from Newegg, now with PSU off, I fitted them into memory slots 2 and 4, then connected the power, pressed the clear CMOS button (as I do when I do things like this) and booted up the PC, then my steps were as follows;
 
entered UEFI, reset UEFI defaults, rebooted.
entered UEFI again, set XMP Profile 1, rebooted.
entered UEFI once again and set to gear 1, rebooted.
 
Windows then proceeds to lock at the Z590 FTW splash screen with the spinning wheel (remembering now in the UEFI, everything is set to AUTO/Default except for XMP + Gear 1)
 
I have done some tinkering, and found that if i remove auto multiplier, that I can boot into Windows and the memtest UEFI test with a CPU multiplier of 30x or lower; a multi of 35x across all cores causes windows to boot loop, at 40x I get no post, I think I seen it stop on 7F or 68.
 
For the sake of it, I tried tinkering with some settings, like overriding VCORE, I set it to 1.430v to ensure enough voltage was being supplied at 40x,45x,48x multipliers. Also touched VSA, which I set manually to 1.300v and VCCIO_AUX to 1.400v (I remember reading in here that this is controls the IMC and CAN help with memory stability) and lastly the sticks set to 1.45v (up from 1.35 XMP)
 
Would anyone know, is there anything else I could tinker with, or increase, to get windows stable at anything above 3ghz all core?
 
I have no idea what half of those other CPU voltages mean, and their limits, so I don't want to increase the VSA or VCCIO_AUX without knowing what's considered safe (this is even if it is related to them in the first place)
 
Below is a screenshot purely AUTO/STOCK settings except XMP and Gear 1.
 
Eagerly awaiting anyone's input! Thanks all!
 



 
 
post edited by grechie - 2021/08/22 23:48:42

i9 11900K 5.3GHz | EVGA Z590 FTW | RTX 3090 FE | CRUCIAL 3901MHz GEAR 1; 16-19-19-38-1 
980 PRO NVMe Gen 4 | EVGA CLC360 | EVGA SUPERNOVA 850 P2 | EVGA DG-87
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    rblaes_99
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 04:52:11 (permalink)
    Leave the gear setting on auto


    #2
    grechie
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 06:11:40 (permalink)
    I suspect doing that would set it to gear 2?

    i9 11900K 5.3GHz | EVGA Z590 FTW | RTX 3090 FE | CRUCIAL 3901MHz GEAR 1; 16-19-19-38-1 
    980 PRO NVMe Gen 4 | EVGA CLC360 | EVGA SUPERNOVA 850 P2 | EVGA DG-87
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    B0baganoosh
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 06:17:51 (permalink)
    While a lot of us can run 3600MHz on gear 1 no problem (a few can run 3733 even), there have been a few that have reported no such luck. There's definitely a memory lottery system and it seems to require that you win 3 times. Your CPU (the IMC anyway), the motherboard, and the memory you pick all have to, for lack of a better term, "like each other". If any of them don't play nice with the others, you'll have problems booting at all or with stability.
     
    You can likely boot in gear 2 (or auto) with XMP profile 1, but your latency will suffer a bit. At least it should be stable. Otherwise, you may have to do what Kalsim has done and boot at 3466 with the tightest timings possible in gear 1. You could run some tests and find out which one produces better performance and stability with the games or applications you use and then stick with that. Alternatively, you could try a different brand or model of memory, but that gets expensive unless you can offload the one you have for a good price, but if it is your CPU's IMC holding you back, there's not much a different memory kit is going to do probably.

    Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

    i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
    #4
    grechie
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 07:03:32 (permalink)
    Nike_7688
    While a lot of us can run 3600MHz on gear 1 no problem (a few can run 3733 even), there have been a few that have reported no such luck. There's definitely a memory lottery system and it seems to require that you win 3 times. Your CPU (the IMC anyway), the motherboard, and the memory you pick all have to, for lack of a better term, "like each other". If any of them don't play nice with the others, you'll have problems booting at all or with stability.
     
    You can likely boot in gear 2 (or auto) with XMP profile 1, but your latency will suffer a bit. At least it should be stable. Otherwise, you may have to do what Kalsim has done and boot at 3466 with the tightest timings possible in gear 1. You could run some tests and find out which one produces better performance and stability with the games or applications you use and then stick with that. Alternatively, you could try a different brand or model of memory, but that gets expensive unless you can offload the one you have for a good price, but if it is your CPU's IMC holding you back, there's not much a different memory kit is going to do probably.



    Cheers for the thorough explanation Nike.
     
    Bugger, so even if 3600 gear 1 works at an underclocked 30x multi, doesn't mean there is a way to get it to work at stock clocks?  thought crucial ballistix would of been the way to go to get this to work (prev tried g skill ripjaws which failed) so its either my FTW or the 11900k....

    i9 11900K 5.3GHz | EVGA Z590 FTW | RTX 3090 FE | CRUCIAL 3901MHz GEAR 1; 16-19-19-38-1 
    980 PRO NVMe Gen 4 | EVGA CLC360 | EVGA SUPERNOVA 850 P2 | EVGA DG-87
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    B0baganoosh
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 08:19:31 (permalink)
    We've been posting what has and hasn't worked for us so far over here. Most of us have done well with the G.Skill TridentZ except for Kalsim (and except for the 5333 kits...two guys had those not work). Kalsim said he used his CPU and that memory kit on another board and it worked fine, which is why I think you need the lucky trifecta to get it all to work. Not sure what would be different from one FTW to another to make an issue, but I have seen several 11900k reviews indicate that your mileage may vary for what the IMC is capable of. I'm guessing they're just really finicky about gear 1.
     
    Edit: one suggestion I've seen going around lately that has surprised me to be effective is to check your CPU socket. Some folks have had issues with bent pins or not seated fully, which surprises me that their systems boot at all, but sometimes strange things happen. Also, too much pressure on the cooler can cause some weird socket issues. So make sure all that is hunky-dory to make sure you're not chasing the wrong problem (i.e. "sanity checks").
    post edited by Nike_7688 - 2021/08/20 08:22:14

    Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

    i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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    kalsim
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/20 11:26:43 (permalink)
    What Nike said.

    11700K 5.0 2C / 4.9 8C | EVGA Z590 FTW 1.05 | EVGA RTX 3080Ti FTW3 Ultra | EVGA 750 G2 | 2x16GB DR G.Skill TridentZ 3600 CL16 @ 3466 CL14 Gear 1 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 1TB | Phanteks Evolv ATX | Alienware 34" AW3418DW
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    grechie
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/21 03:04:33 (permalink)
    cheers guys, so this is going to sound weird, but I just tried booting 3733mhz & Gear 1 with factory 16-18-18-38-1 timings and it works! ... setting 3600mhz locks up booting into windows, but 3733mhz boots and works in gear 1?? ... man I am so happy, but at the same time, puzzled!!
     
    I must ask but is there any other kind of software, that can verify that it's ACTUALLY running in Gear 1 right now? I mean, even though BIOS says Gear 1, I cant help but feel suspicious that it's doing a sneaky on me and loading in Gear 2...
     




    post edited by grechie - 2021/08/21 03:18:37

    i9 11900K 5.3GHz | EVGA Z590 FTW | RTX 3090 FE | CRUCIAL 3901MHz GEAR 1; 16-19-19-38-1 
    980 PRO NVMe Gen 4 | EVGA CLC360 | EVGA SUPERNOVA 850 P2 | EVGA DG-87
    #8
    rblaes_99
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/21 05:05:58 (permalink)
    Isn't the answer there is the dram/fsb ratio? It's a good question.. btw nice you lucky dog
    post edited by rblaes_99 - 2021/08/21 05:16:13


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    B0baganoosh
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/21 05:35:59 (permalink)
    If you open the memory tab on cpu-z, you can check out the memory controller speed. If it matches the dram speed: gear1.

    Formerly Nike_7688 (please refer to post#77 here for info)

    i9 11900k - EVGA Z590 FTW - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - 32GB 3733MHz CAS16 G.Skill, gear1 - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
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    grechie
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/21 06:03:31 (permalink)
    Thanks guys, yep confirmed in CPU-Z that it's running in Gear 1, memory controller and DRAM Freq showing 1866, man what a relief!

    i9 11900K 5.3GHz | EVGA Z590 FTW | RTX 3090 FE | CRUCIAL 3901MHz GEAR 1; 16-19-19-38-1 
    980 PRO NVMe Gen 4 | EVGA CLC360 | EVGA SUPERNOVA 850 P2 | EVGA DG-87
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    kalsim
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/21 08:06:11 (permalink)
    That's awesome!

    11700K 5.0 2C / 4.9 8C | EVGA Z590 FTW 1.05 | EVGA RTX 3080Ti FTW3 Ultra | EVGA 750 G2 | 2x16GB DR G.Skill TridentZ 3600 CL16 @ 3466 CL14 Gear 1 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 1TB | Phanteks Evolv ATX | Alienware 34" AW3418DW
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    Apollo1321
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/30 08:52:37 (permalink)
    All I can say is that some cpus don't like certain timings on ram. I have an 8700k that will do mem at 4400 17-17-17-34, but if I set those same sticks to 4200 with same timing it boot loops at post code 7f. Same boot loops at 4400 if I try to get rtl's closer to the same on both channels. Like channel a is set at 67 but channel b is 70 or 71, I can't remember exactly. It's also very weird with ram at default jedec speeds and trying to set primary timings very loose to see what kind of frequencies the ram can do.
    That 8700k will either boot loop or train on first try, no in-between.
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    DEJ915
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/08/30 16:29:25 (permalink)
    Apollo1321
    All I can say is that some cpus don't like certain timings on ram. I have an 8700k that will do mem at 4400 17-17-17-34, but if I set those same sticks to 4200 with same timing it boot loops at post code 7f. Same boot loops at 4400 if I try to get rtl's closer to the same on both channels. Like channel a is set at 67 but channel b is 70 or 71, I can't remember exactly. It's also very weird with ram at default jedec speeds and trying to set primary timings very loose to see what kind of frequencies the ram can do.
    That 8700k will either boot loop or train on first try, no in-between.

    4400 is also an easier multi to hit than 4200, 4266 should work fine too.
    #14
    Kasque
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    Re: 2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600mhz on Z590 FTW - 3600MHZ Gear 1 2021/09/24 06:56:53 (permalink)
    yes but for intel, i think that when you have a amd mother board and amd processor, their is no need to unlock anything, there are compatible right out of the box
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