EVGA_JacobF

Due to the GPU small die size, we intended for the GPU to contact two major heat pipes with direct touch to make the best heat dissipation without any other material in between.

 
 
In other words they're fine with just those two HPs fully contacting, and couldn't care less if the 3rd only barely touches the edge of the GPU, if that. So you basically have 22mm of total HP width, of which only around 17mm (77%) is being used.
 
No, this is not a defect, or even an oversight, it's EVGA's apathy. The fact that they held out so long before even considering an aftermarket cooler even when everyone else had them kinda makes that obvious.
 
And if it were really down to manufacturing costs, we'd see higher pricing on ALL the custom aftermarket coolers that others are having made FOR the 970. No, this is just EVGA seeking a higher profit margin.
 
I could have found what I was feeling to be their apathy before bothering to call them just by looking here, but I'm glad I did, because the run around and apathy I got there made it clear EVGA is not what they used to be, maybe they never even were.
 
1) First call, tech dept. Says he's unaware of the problem and will relay it. Admits it could effect thermal efficiency after looking at the pics of the placement of the GPU TIM imprint being well off center of the heat pipes.
 
2) Second call, presales dept. Keeps saying he cannot comment, so I merely ask him to relay the info, but his incessant NDA toe-the-line attitude causes me to say thank you and hang up.
 
3) Third call, customer service. Says he just got a response about this issue from what he claimed to be the design team and would forward it to me. Instead my email is from a tech named Darrel and only contains a link of the article I told THEM about.
 
Yeah, so, EVGA, if you're going to be so stuffy and apathetic, at least let us know up front instead of pretending to care, because you're just wasting our time with this crap. Going to be looking at Giga and ASUS offerings instead.
 
 
 

post edited by Frag Maniac - 2014/09/22 15:27:42

EVGA should make same as 780.

I always hate CPU Coolers without flat surface.

Vlada011
EVGA should make same as 780.
 
I always hate CPU Coolers without flat surface.

^^ Same here... Nice flat, full contact solid surfaces for me. Even though the labs have been able to prove that direct contact with the pipes is more efficient... It still bugs me...

really dude? that is inappropriate language... lmBo. okay... guess i gotta censor that too.

Afterburner
 
Careful... That borders a TOS violation...

Point taken, but I get the feeling these kind of figurative (vs literally intended) responses are tolerated on a daily bases, but if said in regard to criticizing EVGA product quality, of course it's going to be stepped on immediately. That said, I don't need to make such comments to make my point, so my bad.
 

It may be a bit hard to see it... But that looks like an overflow amount of the paste used. It is just flattened as they pulled the two parts out.

Can't say I agree with you. Anyone that's applied TIM properly knows the print of paste left behind when the cooler is lifted is that which spread onto the actual surface of the processor itself. What you're implying is the same as saying EVGA goops on the TIM too excessively. In fact if TIM is applied properly so it only flows as far as the HS and GPU contact points, if anything the print left behind would be slightly smaller than the chip itself.
 
 
Another way to say it is EVGA seem only intent on competing with ASUS on thermal efficiency, whom are often mistaken as the leaders of heat conduction. Gigabyte and even MSI are ahead on 970 temps, coming in at 60c & 68c load respectively. The Giga a full 11c cooler than ASUS, and 13c cooler than EVGA. Everyone knows EVGA was one of the last holdouts to use aftermarket coolers. They've never cared much about temps, even after they went non ref. And since most know temps are directly related to OC results and stability, it's a bit disingenuous to say this does not effect performance as they claim.
 
Even most of the members here only refer to the ASUS card for reference, because apparently EVGA has them thinking it's the only competition worth comparing to. For the record, I use TechPowerUp and Guru3D for my temp references, whom are both very particular about details. And even if that paste IS applied too liberally, I still find it odd the best EVGA can do is a whopping 13c higher than Giga. My money is on Giga, for value, product build, AND support.
 

Frag Maniac
Can't say I agree with you. Anyone that's applied TIM properly knows the print of paste left behind when the cooler is lifted is that which spread onto the actual surface of the processor itself. What you're implying is the same as saying EVGA goops on the TIM too excessively. In fact if TIM is applied properly so it only flows as far as the HS and GPU contact points, if anything the print left behind would be slightly smaller than the chip itself.
 
 
Another way to say it is EVGA seem only intent on competing with ASUS on thermal efficiency, whom are often mistaken as the leaders of heat conduction. Gigabyte and even MSI are ahead on 970 temps, coming in at 60c & 68c load respectively. The Giga a full 11c cooler than ASUS, and 13c cooler than EVGA. Everyone knows EVGA was one of the last holdouts to use aftermarket coolers. They've never cared much about temps, even after they went non ref. And since most know temps are directly related to OC results and stability, it's a bit disingenuous to say this does not effect performance as they claim.
 
Even most of the members here only refer to the ASUS card for reference, because apparently EVGA has them thinking it's the only competition worth comparing to. For the record, I use TechPowerUp and Guru3D for my temp references, whom are both very particular about details. And even if that paste IS applied too liberally, I still find it odd the best EVGA can do is a whopping 13c higher than Giga. My money is on Giga, for value, product build, AND support.
 

I too have worked on my fair share of systems... In fact I think at last count I was near 20 complete systems. And half of them I added water-blocks. In other words, I have seen more than a few of these and what the different types of paste, or even ceramic contact paste does. This is not to say I am correct, and why I worded my thinking the way I did. Photos do not always do the situation justice. This is why measuring will win, as the goop or perception of goop is meaningless.  
 
That said, I have not spent any time looking at the other GPU's. I have, and will continue, to not put much faith in any review other than those who buy and use the parts. I am not one who buys into paid reviews. To many times I was swayed one way or another. Just to find out my own use of a product does not line up with reviews. Once they are in our hands as users, the truth always comes out. Good or bad.
 
And to be frank, it is one of the reasons why I buy EVGA. They let us talk these types of issues out. Other companies tend to delete the threads when it gets to painful.

Vlada011
EVGA should make same as 780.

I always hate CPU Coolers without flat surface.

Yes, very much so. I would always avoid heat pipe CPU coolers. Cold plate or bust.

Afterburner
Now... Here is what I will add in hope to help calm the storm a bit...
 
Let's try and keep everything in front of us. A few points to highlight... 
 
 

 
The "it was done worse elsewhere" is not a great defense. As far as low post count, that just means I don't post here a lot. My Join Date is only a year off of yours however. It's in your best interest to defend EVGA, you've invested a lot of time into them. I just hope that we can get past the personal allegiance and address the issue. 

Thanks Afterburner for that enlightening information. It blows my mind how small the chip is and how powerful it can be. Designing coolers to work with every pcb design out there would be an impossible and expensive task. I'm not worried about it.

DchAoticN
 
1. I think that's beside the point.  That's basically saying EVGA has been shipping flawed parts since forever.  You are only doing them a disservice.  And saying people's opinions don't matter because A they have a different view on the matter and B they have low post count is completely illogical.  What do post count and join date have to do with the issue at hand?
 
2.  Take a moment and ask yourself - why are people complaining?  Maybe it's because ACX2 promised to be the most efficient cooler, but failed to be so?  Maybe they paid a premium and expect premium quality, but instead they get lower build quality.  
 
Anyway, mocking other customers' legitimate concerns does not help convey anything.  It only makes the person doing the mocking look immature.  I honestly expected a little more from a forum mod.

Maybe this will help...
 
Why are you saying this issue is an EVGA issue? Why are you not seeing other camps have been doing this for years?
 
I offer you... 2009. Yes, "5" years ago before EVGA started getting into the aftermarket cooling market. It worked on multiple CPU sizes/types...
 
http://www.hwreviewlabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=198%3Aakasa-freedom-force-vga-cooler-review&catid=31%3Acooling-components&Itemid=53&showall=1 
 

 
 
It just seems odd that folks are finding things, making an issue out of them, when it has been a part of many of the GPU's on the market for the last four years.
 
And I know for a fact this was done back in the 8800's days because I bought a set for one of my builds... The name is escaping me at the moment. So that was "7" years ago...

Afterburner 
 
It just seems odd that folks are finding things, making an issue out of them, when it has been a part of many of the GPU's on the market for the last four years.
 
And I know for a fact this was done back in the 8800's days because I bought a set for one of my builds... The name is escaping me at the moment. So that was "7" years ago...

You're focusing on something very minor and avoiding the main issue. I could care less if 1 or 2 heat pipes doesn't make contact. If EVGA wants to make 1 cooler for their entire series of GPU's....I could care less. The only thing I care about are numbers. It's a fact that EVGA 900 series cards run hotter and louder. It is my belief that they used the ACX 1.0 cooler as a stop gap solution.

DchAoticN
 
You are missing the point completely........
Just because someone else has done it doesn't excuse anything.  That's completely illogical.  Not to mention other companies, namely Asus and MSI did exactly just that a few gens ago, and botched the thermals on the 290s and 290Xs, but guess what, they learned from their mistakes and complaints and made sure the 970s aren't shipped like that.  And how are their 970s doing in terms of thermals?  Better.
 
If you get pulled over for going 10mph above the speed limit, do you just go hey officer, the other guys were speeding  5 years ago too?  What does someone else speeding have to do with you violating the law?   You are the one violating the law now, not the guys 5 years ago.
 
The fact here is, it's vastly inferior and under-performing, as seen from multiple sources, compared to the competition who have done the same but learned from the mistakes and we're still charged a premium for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

I see. You are using the words "Vastly inferior". So a couple to a few degrees is "Vastly inferior? I do not follow that one.
 
I can understand that you would like to see some changes, and voicing your thoughts can help with that. So please continue do that. I am just trying to show this is not new like this thread offered it to be as it developed. And trying to get to the meat of the issues.
 
This is the same challenge that all types of businesses face. If it is made by man, it has used old tech until a newer/cheaper version comes along...

Afterburner

DchAoticN
 
You are missing the point completely........
Just because someone else has done it doesn't excuse anything.  That's completely illogical.  Not to mention other companies, namely Asus and MSI did exactly just that a few gens ago, and botched the thermals on the 290s and 290Xs, but guess what, they learned from their mistakes and complaints and made sure the 970s aren't shipped like that.  And how are their 970s doing in terms of thermals?  Better.
 
If you get pulled over for going 10mph above the speed limit, do you just go hey officer, the other guys were speeding  5 years ago too?  What does someone else speeding have to do with you violating the law?   You are the one violating the law now, not the guys 5 years ago.
 
The fact here is, it's vastly inferior and under-performing, as seen from multiple sources, compared to the competition who have done the same but learned from the mistakes and we're still charged a premium for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

I see. You are using the words "Vastly inferior". So a couple to a few degrees is "Vastly inferior? I do not follow that one.
 
I can understand that you would like to see some changes, and voicing your thoughts can help with that. So please continue do that. I am just trying to show this is not new like this thread offered it to be as it developed. And trying to get to the meat of the issues.
 
This is the same challenge that all types of businesses face. If it is made by man, it has used old tech until a newer/cheaper version comes along...

Nicely played.  You dodged every counter argument I made.
 
Vastly inferior, yes. at 50 degrees, that's a 10% difference.  And so is the noise problem. 10dBA over cheaper alternatives is ridiculous to say the least......
 
Anyway, I feel like I am just wasting time trying to explain logic here..  Have a good night, peace.

DchAoticN

Afterburner

DchAoticN
 
You are missing the point completely........
Just because someone else has done it doesn't excuse anything.  That's completely illogical.  Not to mention other companies, namely Asus and MSI did exactly just that a few gens ago, and botched the thermals on the 290s and 290Xs, but guess what, they learned from their mistakes and complaints and made sure the 970s aren't shipped like that.  And how are their 970s doing in terms of thermals?  Better.
 
If you get pulled over for going 10mph above the speed limit, do you just go hey officer, the other guys were speeding  5 years ago too?  What does someone else speeding have to do with you violating the law?   You are the one violating the law now, not the guys 5 years ago.
 
The fact here is, it's vastly inferior and under-performing, as seen from multiple sources, compared to the competition who have done the same but learned from the mistakes and we're still charged a premium for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

I see. You are using the words "Vastly inferior". So a couple to a few degrees is "Vastly inferior? I do not follow that one.
 
I can understand that you would like to see some changes, and voicing your thoughts can help with that. So please continue do that. I am just trying to show this is not new like this thread offered it to be as it developed. And trying to get to the meat of the issues.
 
This is the same challenge that all types of businesses face. If it is made by man, it has used old tech until a newer/cheaper version comes along...

Nicely played.  You dodged every counter argument I made.
 
Vastly inferior, yes. at 50 degrees, that's a 10% difference.  And so is the noise problem. 10dBA over cheaper alternatives is ridiculous to say the least......

10% @ 50c is 5c. I have not seen to many 5c differences yet. 
 
That does NOT mean other camps have not done a better job with their version of cooling, and once we see the ACX 2.0 we will have more info.
 
As for the noise, yeah, that would bug me. 10dba (Using your words on that measurement) is HUGE. I loved my Tri fan Gigabit, cool and quiet! 
 
My current ACX 780 Classified (Runs 24/7 folding or crunching) never gets over the sound of the fans cooling the case. I have to stop other items in the room once in a while to make sure it is working. So I am happy thus far...

Vlada011
EVGA should make same as 780.

I always hate CPU Coolers without flat surface.

780 cost 650$ at launch.  GTX 970 300 bucks.