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Which would be cheaper?

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Tweaked
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2020/06/08 14:01:25 (permalink)
I'm trying to save on energy costs, so I have a question for you guys. Do you think it would be cheaper to run a portable A/C constantly to try and cool the family room while we're all there, or run the Central A/C for the short periods of time it takes to cool the whole house? The portable A/C does an adequate job of keeping the family room comfortable, but due to the open floor plan, the rest of the house never gets cool resulting in the portable A/C running constantly to try and keep up. The Central A/C is a 14.5 Seer 5 ton unit that cools the house pretty quickly, but not very efficiently.
 
What do you guys think?



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    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 14:09:00 (permalink)
    Best way to save electricity? Unplugged all the unnecessary electronics😼
    I will prefer running the portable AC in the rooms than running the central AC

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    Delirious
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 14:17:35 (permalink)
    Look into a radiant barrier or more insulation.   If the family room isn't enclosed, you are cooling all parts of the home.  Unless you close the doors.   You would need at least a 12,000 btu or more for that area in the dead heat of summer.   Your solar isn't helping any?

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    yodap
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 14:20:07 (permalink)
    bill1024 and STR1D3R_2 should chime in but how many watts does the portable draw?


     

     
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    Tweaked
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 14:54:15 (permalink)
    yodap
    bill1024 and STR1D3R_2 should chime in but how many watts does the portable draw?


    It consumes 1350w per hour.



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    Tweaked
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 14:55:46 (permalink)
    Delirious
    Look into a radiant barrier or more insulation.   If the family room isn't enclosed, you are cooling all parts of the home.  Unless you close the doors.   You would need at least a 12,000 btu or more for that area in the dead heat of summer.   Your solar isn't helping any?


     It is a 12,000 BTU unit. The solar has helped a bit, but it mostly just normalizes my bill throughout the year instead of having a huge difference between summer and winter. I'll message you about the reason for this.



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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 15:21:43 (permalink)
    Central air also lowers the humidity ... make the air feel more comfortable ... then Use ceiling fans or floor fans ... but set AC 4 or 5 degrees warmer & save $$
     
    If it is very low humidity where your at then an evaporation cooler "swamp cooler" could cut your energy bill
     
    5 ton unit ... you must have a lot of rooms & roof area
     
    The question I have is the Central AC properly working & recently serviced .. outside coils clean, shaded from afternoon sun ? Is filter clean & not overly restrictive ... vents in all rooms open so it can work as designed.  Ducts properly sealed & insulated - especially if ducts are in the attic ?
     
    I'd run the central air at night & early in the day to cool the house  .. before the heat of the day
     
    Put a cheap electronic Remote temp gauge in the attic ...  what kind of temps ?  Attic properly vented ?
     
    Attic access is usually is the first thing to need insulation upgrade ... if pull down steps .... get the insulation kit .. if small hatch buy foil covered foam
     
    Close the blinds keeps heat out also....
     
    Then spot cool while your in the family room ... if you need it.  Again fans are the way to save energy, coldest air is at floor level - as heat rises
     
    Basically the central air should use less power .... as the portable is undersized & will run nonstop ... number of hours of use  can be used to calculate actual consumption
     
     

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 15:23:00 (permalink)
    It's always better to cool the whole house and let insolation in the walls and ceiling and possibly floor keep it cool then running a portable in an area that it's too small to cool. It might be worth considering thermal drapes if you don't have them to help and windows should be new to prevent energy loss.
     
    Also make sure the A/C is maintained since things like a dirty filter can cause it to not be as efficient. 
    post edited by Hoggle - 2020/06/08 15:25:00

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    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 16:16:21 (permalink)
    Hoggle
     
    Also make sure the A/C is maintained since things like a dirty filter can cause it to not be as efficient. 


    +1 This. Central A/C should be cooling the house no problem unless it needs maintenance.
    How old is your AC system Tweaked🤔?

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    Nereus
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 16:34:07 (permalink)
     
    We had 2 A/C wall/window units in our old 1 bedroom apartment quite a few years back now, each I think were 10,000 BTU - we only used one at a time depending on time of day (bedroom or lounge). In our current 3 bedroom apartment we have central A/C which we set at 77 and let the thermostat decide when to turn it on and off. Our power bills are consistently cheaper in the new apartment with the central A/C, and this apartment is 40% bigger by square footage, has more rooms, an additional person living in it, and the A/C is not zoned. I change the filter every 3 months and keep it well maintained, definitely makes a difference - if you have an old clogged-up filter, the central A/C will not be operating efficiently.
     
    post edited by Nereus - 2020/06/08 16:36:06


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    Delirious
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 18:15:23 (permalink)
    I'll admit.  this post caused me to change my filters today.  lol. 

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    STR1D3R_2
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 18:34:05 (permalink)
    All things listed above, air filters and coils need to not only look clean but actually BE clean. Dirt and debris can become compacted in the coils between the fins. So even though they may actually look clean at a glance they may be plugged. When I do a service (quite a few per day), I go through the air handler end first. Air filter(s), coil inspection is going to happen even if I have to cut a hole in the plenum. I want an unobstructed view of my flashlight throughout the coil. Check the blower wheel for buildup in the cups. A 1/16 inch buildup can be a big hit on efficiency. Do a white glove test so to speak. There's more that I will skip (electrical connections, amp draws, blow out drain line and trap, signs of water in the secondary pan etc etc etc. Blower speed is also a concern. Newer systems may need a static pressure test, too much or to little air over the coil can have issues but for an older system making sure the blower speed is on max (when there's an  issue of airflow) may be key.
     
    Start here. Pull the disconnect on the outdoor unit or kill the breaker < do not skip this!!!
    Pop the electrical cover off and look to the top of the compartment for the fan leads. Pull the connections off the contactor and or board and capacitor (carefully). Once done, grab a cordless drill with either a 5/16 or 1/4 inch bit and remove all the top screws around the perimeter and pull the top off the unit (not the fan or shroud mounts) and set it aside. Then take all the side panels off (unless it's a cage style grille). Grab your garden hose and rinse the coil from the inside out on jet setting. Do NOT use a pressure washer!! Hit the fins straight on and try not to bend them over (its not that easy and rarely happens). Keep your eye on whats coming out and rinse the entire coil. Once yer done go get a magnet for all the screws you spilled and put everything back together. Take a pic of the wires before you pull them also.
    This is very nec in sandy, dusty areas. Cotton weed is a killer up here.
     
    Next, every time I hear of a system short cycling on temperature set point quickly makes me want to perform a load calc on the home. Does it really need 5 tons? Or did someone figure bigger is better? A properly sized system should run most of the day to keep up with the load.  (smaller system > less amps). That's where multistage and variable speed equipment took a leap forward in efficiency. (amps will drop as load decreases)
    You can use both your systems to somewhat replicate multistage if you were to set your central to say, 76 and your portable to 72-73. Set the central system fan to "on" to keep air moving. The central will help keep the infiltration of heat and humidity (if any) down while the portable maintains what it can. Shutting a system down completely while the home is unoccupied is not a good thing either. It will work much harder to remove the heat when you return. Just like a refrigerator, you don't unplug it when you leave.
     
     
    post edited by STR1D3R_2 - 2020/06/08 18:49:53


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    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 18:35:15 (permalink)
    Delirious
    I'll admit.  this post caused me to change my filters today.  lol. 

    Stop lol give hoggle and Strid3r a BR 😼
    post edited by atfrico - 2020/06/08 18:37:09

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    bob16314
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 20:32:38 (permalink)
    If you don't have one you could get a digital programmable thermostat to automatically turn on/off the central at certain times, set the min/max temp thresholds, set days of the week, all kinds of stuff on a good one..But it's better to maintain a temp because it takes more energy to bring an area down than it does to keep it down..You could also talk to somebody that works in A/C about what it would take for 'zone heating/cooling' where you have thermostats for each zone of your house and therefore heating/cooling of only the rooms you want.

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    knightsilver
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/08 20:47:48 (permalink)
    What part of Texas Tweaked, East humid or west dry Texas? Are ya using fans to move the airflow through out the house?
    post edited by knightsilver - 2020/06/08 20:54:21
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    Tweaked
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 06:59:55 (permalink)
    knightsilver
    What part of Texas Tweaked, East humid or west dry Texas? Are ya using fans to move the airflow through out the house?


    I'm in North Texas. North of Dallas.
     
    My A/C is working fine. I'm just searching for creative ways to save money because I was just told yesterday that I'm going to have to take a pay cut as part of cost cutting measures. I bought the portable AC to use in my garage when working out or working on a project, but thought I might be able to utilize it in other creative ways.



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    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 07:11:23 (permalink)
    Tweaked
    knightsilver
    What part of Texas Tweaked, East humid or west dry Texas? Are ya using fans to move the airflow through out the house?


    I'm in North Texas. North of Dallas.
     
    My A/C is working fine. I'm just searching for creative ways to save money because I was just told yesterday that I'm going to have to take a pay cut as part of cost cutting measures. I bought the portable AC to use in my garage when working out or working on a project, but thought I might be able to utilize it in other creative ways.

    The only creative way i can think of is using the portable A/C and a fan or the alternative,
    This might sound crazy but you can try placing a pan of ice on the back of your fan and you will see how cool the air will be with this.
    The down size of this is the ice would melt fast 😹😹but it does the trick😼. This is how i keep my pc cooler😁

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 11:12:00 (permalink)
    So did you try the bucket of ice behind the fan?🤔

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 12:55:33 (permalink)
     
    yeah because that's going to save time and money...
     


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    yodap
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 16:35:54 (permalink)
    "Cotton weed is a killer up here."
    This S.O.B was killing me today as I was trying to oil stain a porch. I will definitely make sure I service the central A/C this year. Luckily we can keep our house pretty cool until 4PM. After that the battle's on! 


     

     
    #20
    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/09 21:50:02 (permalink)
    Running the portable A/C through a power generator or solar panel generator🤔

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    #21
    atfrico
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 09:16:03 (permalink)
    Any update status?

    Those who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way.
     
     
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    Tweaked
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 09:42:54 (permalink)
    I think I'm just going to use the portable AC in my bedroom at night instead of cooling the whole house, and use it in the garage when I'm out there. As for the rest of the house, I'll use the central air and try to tolerate 1 or 2 degrees hotter in the house.



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    #23
    RainStryke
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 10:49:15 (permalink)
    I get that... I have been experiencing the same problem with work. I didn't exactly get a "pay cut" but the 5-10 hours of overtime I was getting every week is no longer allowed, my work has tripled and i'm getting responses of "It just needs to get done" when I mention I have no overtime available to make it happen. Gotta love that fear of not having a job overriding how you can respond to that kind of request.
     
    Honestly, I would stick with the central air. I would go around the house and patch up leaky window seals and exterior doors... it's like 20 dollars for some weather strip. Going with a portable system long term will have unintended effects, like frustration/mental battles with the wife.

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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 12:09:29 (permalink)
    RainStryke
    I get that... I have been experiencing the same problem with work. I didn't exactly get a "pay cut" but the 5-10 hours of overtime I was getting every week is no longer allowed, my work has tripled and i'm getting responses of "It just needs to get done" when I mention I have no overtime available to make it happen. Gotta love that fear of not having a job overriding how you can respond to that kind of request.
     
    Honestly, I would stick with the central air. I would go around the house and patch up leaky window seals and exterior doors... it's like 20 dollars for some weather strip. Going with a portable system long term will have unintended effects, like frustration/mental battles with the wife.




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    #25
    Delirious
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 12:39:35 (permalink)
    STR1D3R_2
    All things listed above, air filters and coils need to not only look clean but actually BE clean. Dirt and debris can become compacted in the coils between the fins. So even though they may actually look clean at a glance they may be plugged. When I do a service (quite a few per day), I go through the air handler end first. Air filter(s), coil inspection is going to happen even if I have to cut a hole in the plenum. I want an unobstructed view of my flashlight throughout the coil. Check the blower wheel for buildup in the cups. A 1/16 inch buildup can be a big hit on efficiency. Do a white glove test so to speak. There's more that I will skip (electrical connections, amp draws, blow out drain line and trap, signs of water in the secondary pan etc etc etc. Blower speed is also a concern. Newer systems may need a static pressure test, too much or to little air over the coil can have issues but for an older system making sure the blower speed is on max (when there's an  issue of airflow) may be key.
     
    Start here. Pull the disconnect on the outdoor unit or kill the breaker < do not skip this!!!
    Pop the electrical cover off and look to the top of the compartment for the fan leads. Pull the connections off the contactor and or board and capacitor (carefully). Once done, grab a cordless drill with either a 5/16 or 1/4 inch bit and remove all the top screws around the perimeter and pull the top off the unit (not the fan or shroud mounts) and set it aside. Then take all the side panels off (unless it's a cage style grille). Grab your garden hose and rinse the coil from the inside out on jet setting. Do NOT use a pressure washer!! Hit the fins straight on and try not to bend them over (its not that easy and rarely happens). Keep your eye on whats coming out and rinse the entire coil. Once yer done go get a magnet for all the screws you spilled and put everything back together. Take a pic of the wires before you pull them also.
    This is very nec in sandy, dusty areas. Cotton weed is a killer up here.
     
    Next, every time I hear of a system short cycling on temperature set point quickly makes me want to perform a load calc on the home. Does it really need 5 tons? Or did someone figure bigger is better? A properly sized system should run most of the day to keep up with the load.  (smaller system > less amps). That's where multistage and variable speed equipment took a leap forward in efficiency. (amps will drop as load decreases)
    You can use both your systems to somewhat replicate multistage if you were to set your central to say, 76 and your portable to 72-73. Set the central system fan to "on" to keep air moving. The central will help keep the infiltration of heat and humidity (if any) down while the portable maintains what it can. Shutting a system down completely while the home is unoccupied is not a good thing either. It will work much harder to remove the heat when you return. Just like a refrigerator, you don't unplug it when you leave.
     
     


    this is tweaked we are talking about here.  he can do the garden hose part but I suspect Tweaked Sr. will have to do all the technical stuff. 

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    #26
    Tweaked
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 14:19:52 (permalink)
    Delirious
    STR1D3R_2
    All things listed above, air filters and coils need to not only look clean but actually BE clean. Dirt and debris can become compacted in the coils between the fins. So even though they may actually look clean at a glance they may be plugged. When I do a service (quite a few per day), I go through the air handler end first. Air filter(s), coil inspection is going to happen even if I have to cut a hole in the plenum. I want an unobstructed view of my flashlight throughout the coil. Check the blower wheel for buildup in the cups. A 1/16 inch buildup can be a big hit on efficiency. Do a white glove test so to speak. There's more that I will skip (electrical connections, amp draws, blow out drain line and trap, signs of water in the secondary pan etc etc etc. Blower speed is also a concern. Newer systems may need a static pressure test, too much or to little air over the coil can have issues but for an older system making sure the blower speed is on max (when there's an  issue of airflow) may be key.
     
    Start here. Pull the disconnect on the outdoor unit or kill the breaker < do not skip this!!!
    Pop the electrical cover off and look to the top of the compartment for the fan leads. Pull the connections off the contactor and or board and capacitor (carefully). Once done, grab a cordless drill with either a 5/16 or 1/4 inch bit and remove all the top screws around the perimeter and pull the top off the unit (not the fan or shroud mounts) and set it aside. Then take all the side panels off (unless it's a cage style grille). Grab your garden hose and rinse the coil from the inside out on jet setting. Do NOT use a pressure washer!! Hit the fins straight on and try not to bend them over (its not that easy and rarely happens). Keep your eye on whats coming out and rinse the entire coil. Once yer done go get a magnet for all the screws you spilled and put everything back together. Take a pic of the wires before you pull them also.
    This is very nec in sandy, dusty areas. Cotton weed is a killer up here.
     
    Next, every time I hear of a system short cycling on temperature set point quickly makes me want to perform a load calc on the home. Does it really need 5 tons? Or did someone figure bigger is better? A properly sized system should run most of the day to keep up with the load.  (smaller system > less amps). That's where multistage and variable speed equipment took a leap forward in efficiency. (amps will drop as load decreases)
    You can use both your systems to somewhat replicate multistage if you were to set your central to say, 76 and your portable to 72-73. Set the central system fan to "on" to keep air moving. The central will help keep the infiltration of heat and humidity (if any) down while the portable maintains what it can. Shutting a system down completely while the home is unoccupied is not a good thing either. It will work much harder to remove the heat when you return. Just like a refrigerator, you don't unplug it when you leave.
     
     


    this is tweaked we are talking about here.  he can do the garden hose part but I suspect Tweaked Sr. will have to do all the technical stuff. 


    Hardy har har. lol



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    #27
    STR1D3R_2
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 15:08:13 (permalink)
    Its really just like getting yer hands in a pc with a much bigger fan. Blast out the the RAD man.
    you could brush the coil and hose it from the outside and push the dirt inwards just to see if there is dirt in there.


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    #28
    bill1024
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 16:33:33 (permalink)
    Cleaning the condenser coil is not that hard to do. BUT:
    But you have to look close and see if it is a dual/split coil. Many units have 2 coils close together and looks like one.
    If you can see the line down the top of the coil it is split. To get dirt out of in between the coils they have to be separated.
    One one end there are copper 180deg bends connecting both coils
    On the other end there are straps holding the coil together. Remove straps, I GENTLY separate the coils a little bit, don't need much.
    Half inch or so will do so the dirt can go down and out.  ( Do not try to get too much room and snap a line or something!!)
    The dirt in the middle cant go back through the other coil, so no matter what way you spray it, it is not going to get clean
    And you can not see that trapped dirt from the inside or out. 
    Taking the temps of air in and air out of the coil, the temp differential, reading on the high pressure gauge and the sub-cooling reading
    will tell you is the unit is clean and properly charged.
     
    If no gauges, the smaller line 3/8 or so should be just about outdoor air temp, or plus just a few degrees
    If it feels really warm and the air out of the condenser is 25f-30degF or more warmer, then the air going in, it is dirty.
    20f or so is normal with a good load on it. 
     
    I myself would use the central A/C, maybe raise the temp up a few deg to try and save some $ Up to where you can still stand the temp.
    Then use the portable one to spot cool if needed. 
    Some times if the humidity is not too bad, a box fan moving some air around can feel just as good.

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    #29
    STR1D3R_2
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    Re: Which would be cheaper? 2020/06/10 22:11:49 (permalink)
    Hop in the van Bill, we're takin a road trip!!!
     


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