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bill1024
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/15 10:20:52 (permalink)
kaninja
They are openining more auto plants in Mexico so they can pay less and not worry about the Unions. It's about profit, not about creating meaningful employment where workers share in the prosperity.

Workers share in the prosperity every Friday, it is called a "Paycheck"
If it is not prosperous enough for you, go find a better job.

 
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/15 14:51:37 (permalink)
bill1024
kaninja
They are openining more auto plants in Mexico so they can pay less and not worry about the Unions. It's about profit, not about creating meaningful employment where workers share in the prosperity.

Workers share in the prosperity every Friday, it is called a "Paycheck"
If it is not prosperous enough for you, go find a better job.




Um, no that is not sharing in prosperity.
 
It's an old concept.  Henry Ford understood it.  Now though sound economic principles has been replaced by profit formulas that are solely focused on efficiency and maximum profitability.  Overproduction, and heavy wealth concentration are very big problems that a free market needs to overcome in order to be successful, vibrant, and healthy.  

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#32
diatribe
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/15 15:11:07 (permalink)
Labor Unions can have great benefits for their members.  It's really to bad that in this day and age most employees have little to no pension working for a company.  I'm afraid of what will happen in the next 20 - 30 years when the next generation comes to retirement age.  They won't be able to retire and that can cut younger people out of the job market.  And if they lose their job, good luck finding work if their over 50.


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bill1024
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/15 19:45:00 (permalink)
kaninja
bill1024
kaninja
They are openining more auto plants in Mexico so they can pay less and not worry about the Unions. It's about profit, not about creating meaningful employment where workers share in the prosperity.

Workers share in the prosperity every Friday, it is called a "Paycheck"
If it is not prosperous enough for you, go find a better job.




Um, no that is not sharing in prosperity.
 
It's an old concept.  Henry Ford understood it.  Now though sound economic principles has been replaced by profit formulas that are solely focused on efficiency and maximum profitability.  Overproduction, and heavy wealth concentration are very big problems that a free market needs to overcome in order to be successful, vibrant, and healthy.  


 
Rubbish
post edited by bill1024 - 2017/05/15 19:46:24

 
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife.
 
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candle_86
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/17 04:16:58 (permalink)
If you rely on a pension to be able to retire your already doing it wrong, you should be taking your money every month and investing it into an IRA, and $52hr is obscene for any factory job, and honesty 29hr is obscene for a janitor, why not try to say Cap what you pay, a plant worker max say 30hr, and a janitor should never go over 10hr. PAy them what they are worth its unskilled labor.
post edited by candle_86 - 2017/05/17 04:18:42


#35
gipothegip
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/17 06:05:05 (permalink)
bill1024
Workers share in the prosperity every Friday, it is called a "Paycheck"
If it is not prosperous enough for you, go find a better job.


I disagree. It's compensation for a provided service, ultimately at an agreed rate. I know it's nit picky, but no company is so altruistic. The better the worker does, the more they contribute, the more they get paid and the more bonuses they make, as their service is more valuable to the company (or at least it should be). In that sense you're right, but in no way is the company making sure everything is divvied out evenly.
 
However, some companies do underpay, and are worth avoiding if it's not enough for you.
 
candle_86
If you rely on a pension to be able to retire your already doing it wrong, you should be taking your money every month and investing it into an IRA, and $52hr is obscene for any factory job, and honesty 29hr is obscene for a janitor, why not try to say Cap what you pay, a plant worker max say 30hr, and a janitor should never go over 10hr. PAy them what they are worth its unskilled labor.




That is quite obscene pay, indeed. I guess it's up to the company, and if they can afford to keep paying it. I don't imagine any worker making that kind of money is complaining so it's probably easier to hold onto workers (especially the good ones).
 
Their worth is kind of subjective, unskilled labor itself isn't the most valuable thing, but I'm sure veterans who work hard every day are worth the extra pay compared to people who scrape the bare minimum and aren't very productive. I would at least hope the former is the one making that kind of money.



 
#36
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/17 06:24:46 (permalink)
candle_86
If you rely on a pension to be able to retire your already doing it wrong, you should be taking your money every month and investing it into an IRA, and $52hr is obscene for any factory job, and honesty 29hr is obscene for a janitor, why not try to say Cap what you pay, a plant worker max say 30hr, and a janitor should never go over 10hr. PAy them what they are worth its unskilled labor.


Plant workers and janitors are not all unskilled laborers. Most of the time, they are trained in that skill set and the training and application of the skill is why they get those raises. It's not like they just did the same thing for 20 years and didn't learn anything new.

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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 11:10:24 (permalink)
can go both ways, but like someone said before, a slacker can be getting paid the same and be producing crumbing work as someone who does good work

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#38
kaninja
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 12:06:05 (permalink)
lolujdm
can go both ways, but like someone said before, a slacker can be getting paid the same and be producing crumbing work as someone who does good work




I suppose you can look at it both ways, you can have lazy people with poor performance getting paid the same as a very productive employee, or you can have everyone's wages kept low regardless of performance.
 
However if you look at the big picture, a well paid under-performing employee making a good wage is a bigger benefit to the economy as a whole than one that makes minimum wage and lives at or below the poverty line.  
 
I tend to just focus on myself and do the best that I can.  Since starting my consulting business I realize everyone has strengths and weaknesses.  One of the biggest weaknesses people have is selfishness.  Caring so much how much the next guy gets paid is a HUGE distraction to many people.  This creates resentment and jealousy.  I made a policy that everyone is made aware of.  Everyone makes the same period, based on length of service.  Everyone gets bonuses based on certain benchmarks as a team.  We all succeed together or we all fail together.  It is my philosophy that I want everyone to succeed.
 
There is a LOT of capacity in the system to pay people more.  All we need to do is look at the GDP/capita growth explosion since the 70's.  
 
One million people making 10%+ higher annual income is leaps and bounds more beneficial to the economy than 50 people who are already millionaires making a few more million each.
 
Corporations and business have a powerful lobby and do whatever they can to keep wages low.  I think it only fair that the workers should have the ability to have solidarity with each other as well.

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#39
bill1024
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 13:38:18 (permalink)
kaninja
lolujdm
can go both ways, but like someone said before, a slacker can be getting paid the same and be producing crumbing work as someone who does good work




I suppose you can look at it both ways, you can have lazy people with poor performance getting paid the same as a very productive employee, or you can have everyone's wages kept low regardless of performance.
 
However if you look at the big picture, a well paid under-performing employee making a good wage is a bigger benefit to the economy as a whole than one that makes minimum wage and lives at or below the poverty line.  
 
I tend to just focus on myself and do the best that I can.  Since starting my consulting business I realize everyone has strengths and weaknesses.  One of the biggest weaknesses people have is selfishness.  Caring so much how much the next guy gets paid is a HUGE distraction to many people.  This creates resentment and jealousy.  I made a policy that everyone is made aware of.  Everyone makes the same period, based on length of service.  Everyone gets bonuses based on certain benchmarks as a team.  We all succeed together or we all fail together.  It is my philosophy that I want everyone to succeed.
 
There is a LOT of capacity in the system to pay people more.  All we need to do is look at the GDP/capita growth explosion since the 70's.  
 
One million people making 10%+ higher annual income is leaps and bounds more beneficial to the economy than 50 people who are already millionaires making a few more million each.
 
Corporations and business have a powerful lobby and do whatever they can to keep wages low.  I think it only fair that the workers should have the ability to have solidarity with each other as well.




So I should pay a person that can hang 900sq ft of sheet rock in a day the same as someone who can hang 1500sq ft in a day?
I don't think so.
How bout the person that run 500ft of pipe vs 350ft of pipe?
People who produce more should get paid more. Everyone is not equal in the work place. Some are better at their jobs than others.
They should be rewarded for their hard work and effort they put into their jobs.
 
As far as the money in the hands of a few is not a valid argument.
Anyone who has money put the money in a bank, mutual funds, corporate stocks, corporate and government bonds.
That money almost always goes back into circulation, unless it is under their mattress. Only that would be a bad thing
They are the job creators and supply the capitol business need to start, expand and grow.
Everyone can have a slice of the pie, since there is more than one pie and more than enough flour to make many more pies.
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by bill1024 - 2017/05/19 15:10:32

 
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife.
 
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#40
agent8
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 14:57:48 (permalink)
well I think we are going Union. I'll know for sure in about 2 hours.
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 16:46:51 (permalink)
I have been in the NYC Carpenters union for 35 years (minus 4 years for the time spent in the USMC) and I am glad to be in the union.  Don't get me wrong, there are some less then good people in my union.  I have run crews sometimes up to 30 men on a jobsite and if I see some one not up to the tast I send them packing right away and replace them.  All companies and work places have some that are not up to par and should be weeded out.  I make a decent pay and have money go into an annuity, I also get a vacation check every 3 months whether I like it or not  My dues are worth every nickel I pay to have someone represent me. Jusy my 2 cents.

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#42
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/19 18:27:58 (permalink)
Well it went through. 65% voted yes so I guess we will see if it is a good one or not after negotiations...
#43
crimz0n
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/26 10:08:44 (permalink)
jeffro66
I am in a union and a officer it is important as far as bargaining for a contract that corporates try to really take advantage of workers and if a member gets in trouble the union get really help him keep his or her job I hate the political stuff,unions can be very helpful and worth the dues




 
Def agree.
#44
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/26 21:49:03 (permalink)
I know this is an older topic, And I also didn'/t read the replyes that followed OP, But ever since I began working as a Carpenter in 2015, I'm never leaving union jobs, Ever.
 
I was going to mention the wages and vacation pay that the union allows me to earn, However I deleted it for the mere fact that it probably wouldn't be a good idea lol. Let's just say I wouldn't be making what I'm currently making if I wasn't a union member.
 
For $20 a month, I can take welding cert classes, Join any trade offered by the Carpenters and Joiners of America, The UBC really takes care of us!
post edited by RushXTC - 2017/05/26 21:50:09


 
#45
krane
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Re: What is everyones thoughts on labor unions? 2017/05/27 06:14:19 (permalink)
RushXTC
I know this is an older topic, And I also didn'/t read the replyes that followed OP, But ever since I began working as a Carpenter in 2015, I'm never leaving union jobs, Ever.
 
I was going to mention the wages and vacation pay that the union allows me to earn, However I deleted it for the mere fact that it probably wouldn't be a good idea lol. Let's just say I wouldn't be making what I'm currently making if I wasn't a union member.
 
For $20 a month, I can take welding cert classes, Join any trade offered by the Carpenters and Joiners of America, The UBC really takes care of us!




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