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Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises........

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Ntrain96
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2014/05/29 06:27:53 (permalink)
OK folks, I know a lot of you have seen my rants about how 6gb is potentially worthless on this generation of cards, well last night me and 2 close associates decided to whip out a 30 pack of Bud light and spend the evening after putting the kids to bed seeing whats really up with this game,and vram usage, overall performance on 1080p and 1440p and my debate/recommendations on extra VRAM. We spent about 6 hours doing AB comparisons on a BUNCH of scenarios with 2 pairs of cards and 2 monitors at my house. We used my Z87 setup featuring a 4770k and 16gb of ram, a fresh clean OS install and countless different settings based on Nvidia's "recommendations" at their Geforce website. We ended up using 8 different configurations and got some surprising results:
 
The hardware setups:
 
1. 780 ti SLI 1080p monitor, SSD install
2. 780 ti SLI 1080p monitor, 4 way Raid 0 HD install
3. & 4. Same as above but with 1440p monitor
5. Titan SLI(overclocked about 60-70mhz higher than the base clock settings of a 780 ti reference card to compensate for the extra CUDA cores, verified with 2-3 benchmarks to have nearly identical scores), 1080p monitor, SSD install
6. Same as above with 4 way raid 0
7. & 8. Again with 1440p monitor same as 5 & 6.
 
    Check back within the hour or 2, Im going to try and go into as much depth as possible on this one. =D
 
 ANd what are you guys doing Editing out the fact that Bud light IS horse piss? LOL! Piss isn't a bad word in my neck of the woods last I knew. =P
post edited by Ntrain96 - 2014/05/29 06:53:38
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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 06:31:43 (permalink)
    Looking forward to your info

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    Inso-ThinkTank
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 06:42:23 (permalink)
    Awesome, can't wait to read!
     
     

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    EVGATech_JaesonW
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 06:51:06 (permalink)
    I'm very excited to see the results. Thank you for taking the time to go through and do this.

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    dapgicc
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 09:03:01 (permalink)
    This game is badly optimised. You won't get any good results.
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    jisbell12
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 11:03:40 (permalink)
    Even I'm waiting to hear this one.  I don't think memory affects things as much as everyone is saying either.  In extremely rare cases, maybe, but in 99.99% of the cases, no.  Having more memory on your card can and sometimes does hurt your overall gaming performance.
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    CyberSparky
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 11:20:05 (permalink)
    Awesome, can't wait to see what your findings are. I just stepped up to 2 6gb 780 SC, from my reg ones. They are on there way to me now! :) Right now I'm on a backup card, gtx 670 4GB ftw. Played watch dogs for a few hours, best I can get is 70 fps on one card with dips to 50 on one monitor with high settings. Full ultra seems to be too much for this gpu with average of 45 fps with dips to 30. I have high hopes my new 780's in SLi will be able to run this game@ 5760x1080 and maintain over 60 fps, closer to 120 would be great. :)

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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 11:36:37 (permalink)
    Well, the first thing Im going to mention, is as this game stands right now, its BRUTAL on HARDWARE. Last night was the first time we played this game in depth, and on a number of different configurations...............to quickly state it though.......don't expect to have everything maxed out at 1080p,even with SLI as it stands........... titans, 780 ti's...........if you want all the detail settings maxed out in the graphics option page and NO HITCHING or STUTTERING as some people call it,as you will need to play with AA and texture settings in the display tab to completely eliminate it.
     
       The stuttering that people complain about.
     
    Things of note:
     
    A. I originally thought optimal settings for my 780 ti's included ultra textures and 4xTXAA, but GFE actually had it set for Ultra with Temporal SMAA. At Ultra textures though, reducing either or both combined reduces the effect people complain about.
     
    B. If you got an SSD as your main drive(or secondary) use it. The hitching stuttering effect is LESS noticeable when the game is installed on an SSD. On a single regular HD, its pretty obvious.......on 4 hybrid HD's in RAID 0 its less so, on an SSD its the least of them all.
     
    C. Gysnc, also reduces the hitching/stuttering effect people complain about in a minimal way. On 60hz static refresh monitors its again a bit more noticeable(like everything else in all other games)
     
    D. Titans and the extra 3gb did not eliminate the stuttering, BUT the effect was a bit less without question. To eliminate the effect at 1080p a pair of Titans had to have textures set to HIGH(And there was still a couple instances here and there where it would show up quickly) with Temporal SMAA as the highest AA used. On a pair of 780 ti's the Textures had to be set to MEDIUM again using temporal SMAA. Neither could run at ULTRA textures without this issue rearing up, again this was using an SSD/Gsync/144hz combo.
     
    E. 1440p? Both ran best with textures set to MEDIUM, FXAA and details settings on the graphics tab set one notch lower across the board(setting the details higher, resulted in significant fps loss separate from the issue people complain about and amplified the issue with lower framerates). Again these settings were based on ELIMINATING the hitching/stuttering without bottlenecking the GPU's own performance.
     
        My conclusion so far is that its a more demanding game than let on. There are actually a TON of visual effects that go on in this game, more so than maybe what people realize. Is it because of poor programming and optimization, and will a patch or 2 reduce or eliminate the demands of the game, and get rid of some of the issues people complain about? Don't know............but its sure fun killing civilians!
     
      I will continue to update this thread later today since I still have a pair of Titans on hand and planned to play with this game further this evening. Requests are welcome.
     
     
    post edited by Ntrain96 - 2014/05/29 12:14:10
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    trabe3
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:07:27 (permalink)
    What driver version did you do your testing?  I don't see you mention it anywhere, unless I missed it.

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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:12:54 (permalink)
    337.88.....my bad.
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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:17:52 (permalink)
    Few other notes.......this game WORKED my SYSTEM....... the fans kicked on immediately with the profile I have set and were cranking at 100% in no time on both GPU's and the system/cpu fans were no different. In fact specifically the CPU got hotter on this game and faster than on any other game I use with it.
     
        
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    Miguell
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:18:45 (permalink)
    interesting... very interesting...
     
    they said this would be a heavy game but.. i never expected to be THIS heavy...
     
     
    maybe a new driver will fix this? hope so!

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    CyberSparky
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:20:39 (permalink)
    What was the vram useage from Ultra to Medium an so forth? Did that drop in textures really benefit the "hitching/stuttering" to a great degree? FPS comparison? I am using an SSD, 144hz monitor, and all High settings with Temporal AA, an can maintain 70fps with dips to 50 when it stutters. And this is with my 4GB 670 FTW backup :)

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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:23:55 (permalink)
    Heavy game without question.
     
      But to be honest a pair of titans or 780 ti's can handle the game maxed out including ultra textures..........with Temporal SMAA at 1080p.......but then you run into the odd hitching/stutter here and there.........but the fps average is over 70-80fps.............so average framerate is high still...............but man you can cook an egg off your pc with this game.........definitely a game where your fan profiles need to be maxed out and ramp up fast, and you need good circulation, or a quality water cooled setup as well.
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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 12:44:27 (permalink)
    SparkyShaft
    What was the vram useage from Ultra to Medium an so forth? Did that drop in textures really benefit the "hitching/stuttering" to a great degree? FPS comparison? I am using an SSD, 144hz monitor, and all High settings with Temporal AA, an can maintain 70fps with dips to 50 when it stutters. And this is with my 4GB 670 FTW backup :)


    Very good question, and very telling too.......at both High and Ultra textures the 780 Ti's showed 2.9gigs of allocation/use(GPU-Z), and with the Titan's both high and Ultra textures showed 5.9gigs of allocation/use.
     
       At medium both the Titans and 780 ti's showed 2.2gigs of allocation/use.
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    jisbell12
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 13:19:01 (permalink)
    I still say something is going on with these games and their ultra textures and super graphic effects with all that vram usage.  For both the 3gb and the 6gb to fill up so fast and stay there, that almost tells me the cpu can't handle the complexity of the game or keep up the data rate to the cards fast enough for the cards to refresh their texture memory.  If this isn't happening, someone please correct me, as I am not, nor ever claimed to be an expert on this, but just think there is something else going on under the hood with these super detailed games and their high system usage that maybe no one is seeing.
     
    At Medium, both 780Ti and Titan used 2.2gb, but after that the vram is maxed whether you have 3gb or 6gb on even High settings...  It seems to me that on High, the Titan with its 6gb shouldn't be maxing out like that or rather it should be somewhere in the range of 4~5gb and then only max out on Ultra settings if vram was the only issue.  Anyone follow my thinking on this?  It's just hard for me to accept this is just a video card/vram issue.
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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 13:38:43 (permalink)
    jisbell12
    I still say something is going on with these games and their ultra textures and super graphic effects with all that vram usage.  For both the 3gb and the 6gb to fill up so fast and stay there, that almost tells me the cpu can't handle the complexity of the game or keep up the data rate to the cards fast enough for the cards to refresh their texture memory.  If this isn't happening, someone please correct me, as I am not, nor ever claimed to be an expert on this, but just think there is something else going on under the hood with these super detailed games and their high system usage that maybe no one is seeing.
     
    At Medium, both 780Ti and Titan used 2.2gb, but after that the vram is maxed whether you have 3gb or 6gb on even High settings...  It seems to me that on High, the Titan with its 6gb shouldn't be maxing out like that or rather it should be somewhere in the range of 4~5gb and then only max out on Ultra settings if vram was the only issue.  Anyone follow my thinking on this?  It's just hard for me to accept this is just a video card/vram issue.


    Well technically high textures is supposed to be the setting to use for 2GB cards..........but GPU-z shows more is being allocated(used?)and both the 780ti and titan are maxing out basically. Medium is showing an obvious cap use and its still 2.2gigs....... I am not sure how accurate of a program GPU-z is to begin with............
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    jisbell12
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 13:44:11 (permalink)
    Has anyone tried Nvidia Inspector for vram usage?  How accurate is that over GPU-Z?  You can even overlay the graphs on top of what you are playing to see the current usage in any given situation.
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    Miguell
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 13:58:43 (permalink)
    holy crap..
     
    2.5GB average vram?
    2x GTX780ti?
     
    man... oh man... maybe this games needs some patches?
    does not seems very.. optimized..
     

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    howdyho1
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 14:23:09 (permalink)
    Thank you for sharing your notes!
     
    I've only played it a bit (made it out of the stadium) on my pair of Titan Black SCs and didn't notice any issues.  I also have a Raid 10 SSD, which sounds like it is also helping.  But, I need to make an investment to get to a stable OC for my CPU again.  From what you have seen, I'll need every drop of horsepower my system can muster.

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    shadowboricua
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/29 18:14:21 (permalink)
    I a have GTX 780 SLI and turning textures down to high has really minimized the stutter significantly even with Ultra settings and MSAA x8 or TXAA x4. I can finally enjoy the game. I was tempted to install the game on my SSD, but don't have much space on it.

    If I do decide to install the game on my SSD, does anyone know if the saved progress remains intact?


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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/30 06:18:36 (permalink)
    shadowboricua
    I a have GTX 780 SLI and turning textures down to high has really minimized the stutter significantly even with Ultra settings and MSAA x8 or TXAA x4. I can finally enjoy the game. I was tempted to install the game on my SSD, but don't have much space on it.

    If I do decide to install the game on my SSD, does anyone know if the saved progress remains intact?

    You can move the game from one drive to another as your save game/config data is normally kept on your C drive.
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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/30 06:23:18 (permalink)
    howdyho1
    Thank you for sharing your notes!
     
    I've only played it a bit (made it out of the stadium) on my pair of Titan Black SCs and didn't notice any issues.  I also have a Raid 10 SSD, which sounds like it is also helping.  But, I need to make an investment to get to a stable OC for my CPU again.  From what you have seen, I'll need every drop of horsepower my system can muster.


    As it is right now its both a cpu/gpu intensive game, but at 1080p the game should eventually run smooth Im hoping with a few patches, beyond the odd hitches and stuttering the game runs north of 100fps with the GFE recommended settings. I do find that there is literally no point in running more than Temporal SMAA AA..........beyond that I can discern no visual improvements in edge smoothing. MSAA/TXAA seems to do nothing but give a bigger hit to performance overall.
     
    PS: How are you running 24g of ram? 3 sticks?
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    MADOGRE
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/30 06:30:05 (permalink)
    I think some of its problems has to do with how it uses the system ram as Vram on the consoles, some people said turning of your page file helps.
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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/30 06:36:51 (permalink)
    MADOGRE
    I think some of its problems has to do with how it uses the system ram as Vram on the consoles, some people said turning of your page file helps.


    Very well could be, I haven't turned off page filing or modified the OS setup when I did the comparison. I kept everything pretty much stock cept turn off unnecessary programs and background applications.
     
      Though to add, did the people who turned off page filing(virtual memory)do so on a traditional C: Hard drive, or did they have an SSD? If they had an SSD as their main drive I don't see the point at all.
    post edited by Ntrain96 - 2014/05/30 07:00:47
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    howdyho1
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/30 07:44:13 (permalink)
    Ntrain96

    As it is right now its both a cpu/gpu intensive game, but at 1080p the game should eventually run smooth Im hoping with a few patches, beyond the odd hitches and stuttering the game runs north of 100fps with the GFE recommended settings. I do find that there is literally no point in running more than Temporal SMAA AA..........beyond that I can discern no visual improvements in edge smoothing. MSAA/TXAA seems to do nothing but give a bigger hit to performance overall.
     
    PS: How are you running 24g of ram? 3 sticks?




    I have 6 sticks of RAM.  It's an older X58 triple-channel motherboard.
     
    Thanks for the advice on AA.  I'll give that a shot this weekend.

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    Ntrain96
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    Re: Watch Dogs, 1440p vs 1080p, Titan SLI 6gb vs 780 ti SLI 3gb findings and surprises.... 2014/05/31 08:00:00 (permalink)
    howdyho1
    Ntrain96

    As it is right now its both a cpu/gpu intensive game, but at 1080p the game should eventually run smooth Im hoping with a few patches, beyond the odd hitches and stuttering the game runs north of 100fps with the GFE recommended settings. I do find that there is literally no point in running more than Temporal SMAA AA..........beyond that I can discern no visual improvements in edge smoothing. MSAA/TXAA seems to do nothing but give a bigger hit to performance overall.
     
    PS: How are you running 24g of ram? 3 sticks?




    I have 6 sticks of RAM.  It's an older X58 triple-channel motherboard.
     
    Thanks for the advice on AA.  I'll give that a shot this weekend.


    Ah gotcha on the RAM.
    #27
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