xanderf

knightsilver
So much greed these days, they all should be greatfull they werent working for min wage and had a regular hours jobs.

Of course, yeah.  I mean, the business owners have rights to 100% of the billions of dollars of revenue each year, after all.

What do the workers actually making the product get off thinking they are owed anything at all?  They should be thanking their masters just for the opportunity to make products for them, amiright?  Ingrates...

 
First of all, the owners don't have rights to 100% of the revenue. They are first and foremost subordinate to senior creditors and the existing capital structure. But setting aside the financial stuff, if the owners own the company and have a controlling stake, they get to make the decisions as to how any outstanding capital is allocated. That is both the legal and moral case. In this country, private property and ownership of private property is sacrosanct, and it is the first and foremost duty of the government to protect private property and enforce contracts (hence my earlier comment about the owners being subordinate to creditors).
 
If you're a worker who thinks you aren't getting your "fair share" of company profits, why not quit and find another job? Tell your boss that they can either match the better offer that you got (because, after all, you are a skilled and valuable worker, right?), or you're going to jump ship. This happens all the time in the private sector. Of course, given some of the jobs at Hostess, they would probably just let you leave and fill the position within 15 minutes, but every man, in this country at least, is given the choice to work or not work at a job. If you don't like it, there are currently 8 million people out there actively looking for work who would take your job (and another 8 million more who are either discouraged and would like a job or are working part-time because they can't find full-time work, and would be equally willing).
 
That's the beauty of income inequality. Those with specialized skills and experience will get disproportionally more benefit in terms of compensation than those without. That's what drives people to better themselves. Would you really want to live in a society where training and experience has diminishing marginal returns?
 
Ok, so getting back on track, people around here seem to making a mistake in not understanding the difference between Chapter 7/11 /13 bankruptcy, and what exactly is happening to Hostess.
 
Most people incorrectly assume that Hostess is going through Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Which means all assets are sold off to settle the debts by subordination, then whatever's left is paid out to equity holders, and the doors are shut forever.
 
Hostess, however, is going through Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which means that they will go through re-organization in some form. They will sell off some assets, keep others, and consider re-opening the company provided that a new capital structure can be provided. In this case, this means that all existing contracts will have to be re-negotiated. It also means that, after paying all existing senior debts, the company can, provided it still has positive equity, put itself up for sale. Then a firm can come along and buy parts of the assets remaining, or just buy the entire business outright, hoping to revamp it.
 
Now Hostess has some pretty valuable assets to its name. Aside from the branding, and loyal customer base, it also has large market share. We are living in the richest and fattest country on this planet, so buying and re-organizing Hostess could be a huge boon for a snack company. Plus, the new company would probably be given the opportunity to hire back the best workers at re-negotiated contract rates.
 
As for the workers? Management offered them a contract with a paycheck, and they rejected it. Politics doesn't come into it at all. The workers made a decision, and they will reap all the benefits of their decision.
 
 

Alright, knock off the personal attacks here.  It's not an easy time for a lot of people here, and nobody wins in a contest of "whose life is worse than mine?"  Just keep those kinds of comments to yourself, if you feel the need to tell others that their current situations aren't as bad as they could be.  That goes for everyone.
 
If this continues to go off-topic in that direction, warnings shall ensue.

Damn nordic, that part of it died a while ago, your gettin slow in your old age :P

taniquetil If you're a worker who thinks you aren't getting your "fair share" of company profits, why not quit and find another job? Tell your boss that they can either match the better offer that you got (because, after all, you are a skilled and valuable worker, right?), or you're going to jump ship. This happens all the time in the private sector.

You must surely be aware there is a difference between 'skilled labor', that is hard to replace and can, indeed, often 'negotiate its own way' (I've certainly left many positions where the work started to bore me or I didn't like where the company was going to get a better job elsewhere, but my skillset is not common) and 'unskilled labor' - the poor sots who prior to the 20th century would regularly be pulling 60-80 hr work weeks, with no vacations or sick time, starting in childhood and literally being worked to death by their 40s, as they were so easily replaceable.
 
Unions came into being in a direct response to that.  And the only reason we don't have that situation for 'unskilled labor' today is because of the unions.
 
'Skilled labor' plays by a different set of rules, so basically your entire argument is moot as you are making an invalid comparison.  Just because they are 'unskilled labor' does not mean they should be treated as slaves to be consumed and disposed of at the will of the company management.  And, as they do not have a unique set of skills that lets them individually negotiate their own work, the only way they can negotiate on equal terms with the many dozens/hundreds/thousands of parties in management and ownership of the corporation is to band together in the dozens/hundreds/thousands in the form of unions.  It's simply to have a fair stand at the negotiating table.

guess I got lucky filling my trunk today before word got out in the afternoon.  This has been talked about since the 15th or so.  There were initial reports on a week's supply,  but the way they are selling, I doubt it will last that long.

I know the company I work for would gladly pay me $9.00 / hr to do what I do. Question is, do you want me earning that to build the aircraft you and your loved ones fly on everyday? Unions have their place. They are to get fair pay and treatment for workers. I don't see how that can be debated. The problem arises when ignorant greedy workers think they should get more than they deserve and strike for outrageous demands. Another major problem is when a company is run by ignorant people. Jusy because someone has CEO in their job title doesn't mean they should have it.
 
Back to the subject, I hope they can figure out a fix to the problem - I don't consume their products, but an American company closing their doors is bad for all of us.

There's so much wrong with this thread, I want to just respond to all the posts, but I don't want to get banned for starting a politic riot. 
 
 

ARCTIC_EAGLE

idk if its been posted but CEO pay was increased 300% before the company went under.

 
 
According to the following article that pay increase was reversed.
 
Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/...hostess-195314670.html

whiskers54

ARCTIC_EAGLE

idk if its been posted but CEO pay was increased 300% before the company went under.

According to the following article that pay increase was reversed.

Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/...hostess-195314670.html

only after bankruptcy, they were asking for Union workers to take a 20% pay cut long before that.

I just sold several cases of Hostess snacks for a...sweet profit.
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!.jpg
 
 

Rofl bimbo bakeries.....the first time I saw that i coudlnt stop loling.

They're great right now for fund raisers.  I've got a few potential buyers on a case of Twinkies going for $500.  The proceeds will be going towards  educational software for a local kindergarten class that doesn't even have a copy of the Oregon Trail to it's name. 

so sad....
 
i love 'em twinkies 

Lots of hits, but no buys on the charity auction I ran.  Guess I'll try again as the supply dwindles out, or *gasp* lower the price.  I'd hate to lower the price since it would cheapen what the sale goes towards, and then they'd just wait it out and see if I'll just drop it again.  I don't get how one auction for 30 twinkies will go for $300+ and I can't get a hit on my listings in the $2-4 per Twinkie range. 

BAD NEWS for the kiddos >  HOSTESS will probably survive by means of its unionized competitors.  I think I've been saying that.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/s...-sale-hostess/1712749/