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Helpful ReplyIs liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky?

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MegaTimX
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2019/06/10 13:54:05 (permalink)
I am thinking of using liquid metal thermal paste(Conductonaut). However, I just want to make sure it's not extremely risky. I've attached a picture and I'd like to know if the small metal parts(in the red boxes in the attached photo) that surround the center of the GPU it's self are conductive. Will the GPU be destroyed if the liquid metal comes into contact with these parts?

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bcavnaugh
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 14:02:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MegaTimX 2019/06/13 14:04:33
It can be, I use it on the CPU but would Never use it on a GPU.

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MegaTimX
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 14:08:33 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
It can be, I use it on the CPU but would Never use it on a GPU.


Thanks. I did a bit more research and yes, putting a conductive paste between those small metal contacts around the core will destroy the GPU. I'll just invest in Kryonaut instead. I'm not about to gamble on a 2080 Ti for a minor temp drop.
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 14:27:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MegaTimX 2019/06/13 14:04:40
Please do not use liquid metal on the GPU. If it causes any damage to the GPU die, that will void your warranty. And yes, the small SMD's surrounding the die can get shorted out if liquid metal comes in contact with them.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 14:28:52 (permalink)
I think it’s best to use a non conductive thermal pad or paste. You could use conductive but why risk it? It’s just so much safer to use non conductive.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 14:31:57 (permalink)
I am a big fan of TF8, I moved from MX-4.
TF8 Thermal Paste 2g Amazon
         TF8 Thermal Compound Paste 13.8 W/mK, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers
TF8 — Pushes to the limit .. and beyond
Extreme heat transfer ability of 13.8 W/m.k meets the demands of even the most extreme user
No curing time means cooler is working at peak ability as soon as it is mounted.
Long life means years of trouble-free use (8 Year same as MX-4)
Non-conductive means no worries of shorting things out
Product Description
Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):13.8
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.01
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.9
Useable Temperature Range:-220℃ / + 380℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/10 14:38:59

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 16:49:57 (permalink)
I used it and it's awesome..I'll never use anything else again.
 
My GPU (and CPU) temperature was lowered dramatically as shown here in my Post #12..I was using MX-4 before applying the Conductonaut.
 
Being 'liquid metal', it's highly conductive, of course..But it only takes an extremely small amount to cover the chip and heatsink.
 
I applied a couple coats of clear fingernail polish to insulate those 'small metal parts in the red boxes' to be safe because they can short out..I suppose that would void any warranty though, I dunno, you really can't even see it.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 17:06:26 (permalink)
From what I've heard some people are using stuff called "liquid electrical tape" that's much safer than using fingernail polish. I've been told that NP can corrode stuff over time.
 
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/10 17:40:14 (permalink)
"liquid electrical tape" Some Crack @ Sub Zero Temperatures.
"fingernail polish" Some Yes and Some No.
MG Chemicals Silicone Modified Conformal Coating, 55 ml Bottle with Brush Cap
MG Chemicals 419C-55ML Acrylic Lacquer Conformal Coating, Clear ,55 ml Bottle 
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/11 08:41:09

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/11 05:24:37 (permalink)
I've thought about using the liquid metal (LM) but wondered if it wouldn't drip down from the chip since the MB is vertical. The GPU lays horizontal into the MB so less chance of the LM leaking on the GPU?

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/11 05:28:32 (permalink)
I use the MG Acrylic Lacquer conformal coating shown in bcavnaugh's post above to insulate all around the GPU with double coats on all those little parts.  Be sure none of the coating gets on the GPU die. If it does, Acetone or MEK will wash it off. 
 
When using a chiller below the dew point or using dry ice, the rest of the board is subject to condensation.  I put the coating on everything that doesn't get contact by the cooler - leaving VRMs and RAMs uncoated, but working around the edges to get the exposed contacts.  (Warranty?  What warranty?)  That part isn't necessary with the hybrid cooler or with a custom loop using only ambient air.
 
At around 500 watts on a chip the size of the 2080ti, there is a calculated temperature rise difference of 22C between liquid metal (Coolaboratories pro) rated 81 w/mk and a good paste rated 10 w/mk.  Temperature rise is directly proportional to power with 16C at 360W, 8C at 180W, etc.   That's enough reason for me to brave the risk with some reasonable precautions.
 
dc8flyer:  Liquid metal is so runny that any of the patterns that depend on pressure to spread the TIM won't work.  The LM runs off like you speak of.  Liquid metal needs to be spread with a brush all over the chip and the cooler's cold plate or it won't spread evenly.  That spread should be very thin.  That thinness is what limits runoff.  Even then, the small parts around the GPU need insluation.
post edited by jab383 - 2019/06/11 05:32:01
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/11 05:42:40 (permalink)
jab383
I use the MG Acrylic Lacquer conformal coating shown in bcavnaugh's post above to insulate all around the GPU with double coats on all those little parts.  Be sure none of the coating gets on the GPU die. If it does, Acetone or MEK will wash it off. 
 
When using a chiller below the dew point or using dry ice, the rest of the board is subject to condensation.  I put the coating on everything that doesn't get contact by the cooler - leaving VRMs and RAMs uncoated, but working around the edges to get the exposed contacts.  (Warranty?  What warranty?)  That part isn't necessary with the hybrid cooler or with a custom loop using only ambient air.
 
At around 500 watts on a chip the size of the 2080ti, there is a calculated temperature rise difference of 22C between liquid metal (Coolaboratories pro) rated 81 w/mk and a good paste rated 10 w/mk.  Temperature rise is directly proportional to power with 16C at 360W, 8C at 180W, etc.   That's enough reason for me to brave the risk with some reasonable precautions.
 
dc8flyer:  Liquid metal is so runny that any of the patterns that depend on pressure to spread the TIM won't work.  The LM runs off like you speak of.  Liquid metal needs to be spread with a brush all over the chip and the cooler's cold plate or it won't spread evenly.  That spread should be very thin.  That thinness is what limits runoff.  Even then, the small parts around the GPU need insluation.




Interesting info
 
but like you said ---> Warranty?  What warranty? ... extreme OC is at your own risk & Modding the Hardware is Normal

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 01:41:18 (permalink)

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 02:03:25 (permalink)
Cool GTX
jab383
I use the MG Acrylic Lacquer conformal coating shown in bcavnaugh's post above to insulate all around the GPU with double coats on all those little parts.  Be sure none of the coating gets on the GPU die. If it does, Acetone or MEK will wash it off. 
 
When using a chiller below the dew point or using dry ice, the rest of the board is subject to condensation.  I put the coating on everything that doesn't get contact by the cooler - leaving VRMs and RAMs uncoated, but working around the edges to get the exposed contacts.  (Warranty?  What warranty?)  That part isn't necessary with the hybrid cooler or with a custom loop using only ambient air.
 
At around 500 watts on a chip the size of the 2080ti, there is a calculated temperature rise difference of 22C between liquid metal (Coolaboratories pro) rated 81 w/mk and a good paste rated 10 w/mk.  Temperature rise is directly proportional to power with 16C at 360W, 8C at 180W, etc.   That's enough reason for me to brave the risk with some reasonable precautions.
 
dc8flyer:  Liquid metal is so runny that any of the patterns that depend on pressure to spread the TIM won't work.  The LM runs off like you speak of.  Liquid metal needs to be spread with a brush all over the chip and the cooler's cold plate or it won't spread evenly.  That spread should be very thin.  That thinness is what limits runoff.  Even then, the small parts around the GPU need insluation.




Interesting info
 
but like you said ---> Warranty?  What warranty? ... extreme OC is at your own risk & Modding the Hardware is Normal


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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 04:53:19 (permalink)
foxmino
Maybe you can try this stuff
https://kingpincooling.com/collections/overclocking-supplies/products/kpx-thermal-high-performance-thermal-compound-10g
Here's a vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dTzf6dpCpo
 


Watching the video, viscosity was mentioned numerous times. Regardless of the TM's viscosity, I have always wrapped the paste in plastic wrap and dipped it into a cup of somewhat hot water for a minute or so. Then massage the tube a little bit and the hardest of paste will flow easily.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 06:56:30 (permalink)
yeah, I agree.  I am still using MX4 and it works for me.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 07:30:14 (permalink)
Some excellent price cuts on thermal paste.
 
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007788%2050016739

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 08:17:49 (permalink)
dc8flyer
Some excellent price cuts on thermal paste.
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007788%2050016739

Clearing out old stock I bet.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 10:36:12 (permalink)
Delirious
yeah, I agree.  I am still using MX4 and it works for me.




  I still use and love MX-4. 

I also think using liquid metal is risky and this is coming from a custom liquid cooler. lol  I don't think it's worth the risk imho but to each their own.

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 19:32:56 (permalink)

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/12 19:59:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MegaTimX 2019/06/13 14:03:58
LM TIM on a GPU isn't worth that much of a temp decrease vs increased risk. The larger die area spreads the heat load out much more so vs a small area CPU die. 
 
GTX 980 Ti I tried it on with a waterblock was worth about 2C at most over Gelid-XC paste. Haven't bothered with LM on a GPU die since. 
 
On a CPU die...yes. It's worth it much more so. But only from Die to 1st contacting device. Not worth it from the IHS to the CPU cooler. 
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 08:23:09 (permalink)
I am thinking of trying the Kingpin, that stuff looks great.  


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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:01:07 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
I am a big fan of TF8, I moved from MX-4.
TF8 Thermal Paste 2g Amazon
         TF8 Thermal Compound Paste 13.8 W/mK, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers
TF8 — Pushes to the limit .. and beyond
Extreme heat transfer ability of 13.8 W/m.k meets the demands of even the most extreme user
No curing time means cooler is working at peak ability as soon as it is mounted.
Long life means years of trouble-free use (8 Year same as MX-4)
Non-conductive means no worries of shorting things out
Product Description
Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):13.8
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.01
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.9
Useable Temperature Range:-220℃ / + 380℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES



This actually looks interesting. "Theoretically" it will outperform Kryonaut. With my liquid cooling loop and Hydronaut my GPU was at about 51c max under load. I'd love to be able to keep the max temp below 50c. The issue is I can't find any trustworthy reviews on TF8. MX-4 is an old-school standard. I have a big tube of it that I use when repairing relatives/friends computers and such. For my own parts though I want to use the best regardless of cost, within reason. I bought a tube of Conductonaut, but I think I may just use that for my CPU, as I don't think I can bring myself to gamble with a thousand dollar video card. Right now I am debating Kryonaut and TF8.
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MegaTimX
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:03:37 (permalink)
bob16314
A couple good articles with videos over at Gamers Nexus.
 
How Liquid Metal Affects Copper, Nickel, and Aluminum (Corrosion Test)
 
Tested for a Year: How Often Should You Change Liquid Metal?


My waterblock is nickel plated copper and the GPU die is pure nickel I believe. I am not afraid of interaction really as much as I am afraid of voiding my warranty and frying the card.
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:04:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MegaTimX 2019/06/13 14:12:46
MegaTimX
bcavnaugh
I am a big fan of TF8, I moved from MX-4.
TF8 Thermal Paste 2g Amazon
         TF8 Thermal Compound Paste 13.8 W/mK, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers
TF8 — Pushes to the limit .. and beyond
Extreme heat transfer ability of 13.8 W/m.k meets the demands of even the most extreme user
No curing time means cooler is working at peak ability as soon as it is mounted.
Long life means years of trouble-free use (8 Year same as MX-4)
Non-conductive means no worries of shorting things out
Product Description
Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):13.8
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.01
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.9
Useable Temperature Range:-220℃ / + 380℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES

This actually looks interesting. "Theoretically" it will outperform Kryonaut. With my liquid cooling loop and Hydronaut my GPU was at about 51c max under load. I'd love to be able to keep the max temp below 50c. The issue is I can't find any trustworthy reviews on TF8. MX-4 is an old-school standard. I have a big tube of it that I use when repairing relatives/friends computers and such. For my own parts though I want to use the best regardless of cost, within reason. I bought a tube of Conductonaut, but I think I may just use that for my CPU, as I don't think I can bring myself to gamble with a thousand dollar video card. Right now I am debating Kryonaut and TF8.

I have been running TF8 for a year now and see better performance then using MX-4 for about 5 Years now.
I even changed from LM to TF8 on this rig View System
 I used LM only on the CPU before changing to TF8

post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/13 14:08:48

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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:10:35 (permalink)
I am now going to see how well this run TFX Thermal Paste 6.2g
Going to change the above rig with this to see how well the CPU runs.

Product Description

Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):14.3
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.0028
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.6
Useable Temperature Range:-250℃ / + 300℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES

Thermalright TFX 6.2g 14.3W/m-K $49.99 Not Cheap.
Thermalright TFX 2g 14.3W/m-K $24.99
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2019/06/13 14:21:10

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#26
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:22:50 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
I am a big fan of TF8, I moved from MX-4.
TF8 Thermal Paste 2g Amazon
         TF8 Thermal Compound Paste 13.8 W/mK, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers
TF8 — Pushes to the limit .. and beyond
Extreme heat transfer ability of 13.8 W/m.k meets the demands of even the most extreme user
No curing time means cooler is working at peak ability as soon as it is mounted.
Long life means years of trouble-free use (8 Year same as MX-4)
Non-conductive means no worries of shorting things out
Product Description
Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):13.8
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.01
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.9
Useable Temperature Range:-220℃ / + 380℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES




Is it noticeably better than MX-4?  I had been using MX-3 still (hadn't touched stuff in a few years though it was just running) and when I moved my parts to the new case a couple months ago I "upgraded" to MX-4 after read a number of articles and seeing lots of recommendations for it.  Don't mind buying something new again for my upcoming build, but only if it's really noticeable.

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#27
MegaTimX
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:24:38 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
I now Going to see how well this run TFX Thermal Paste 6.2g
Thermalright TFX 6.2g 14.3W/m-K $49.99 Not Cheap.


Oof. That's too rich for my blood. $50 for thermal paste? I thought Kryonaut was pricey. lol If it would drop my temps by like 5c compared to others  I'd go for it. But from the little information available it isn't a big difference from TF8.
#28
bcavnaugh
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:28:09 (permalink)
MegaTimX
bcavnaugh
I now Going to see how well this run TFX Thermal Paste 6.2g
Thermalright TFX 6.2g 14.3W/m-K $49.99 Not Cheap.

Oof. That's too rich for my blood. $50 for thermal paste? I thought Kryonaut was pricey. lol If it would drop my temps by like 5c compared to others  I'd go for it. But from the little information available it isn't a big difference from TF8.

It may end up on my KPE as well.

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#29
MegaTimX
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Re: Is liquid metal thermal paste extremely risky? 2019/06/13 14:28:48 (permalink)
flyinion
bcavnaugh
I am a big fan of TF8, I moved from MX-4.
TF8 Thermal Paste 2g Amazon
         TF8 Thermal Compound Paste 13.8 W/mK, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers
TF8 — Pushes to the limit .. and beyond
Extreme heat transfer ability of 13.8 W/m.k meets the demands of even the most extreme user
No curing time means cooler is working at peak ability as soon as it is mounted.
Long life means years of trouble-free use (8 Year same as MX-4)
Non-conductive means no worries of shorting things out
Product Description
Specifications:
Thermal Conductivity(W / m-k):13.8
Color:Gray
Thermal lmpedance (℃-cm2/W):<0.01
Specific Gravity(25℃):2.9
Useable Temperature Range:-220℃ / + 380℃
Content:2g
Electrically Conductive:NO
Harmless:YES




Is it noticeably better than MX-4?  I had been using MX-3 still (hadn't touched stuff in a few years though it was just running) and when I moved my parts to the new case a couple months ago I "upgraded" to MX-4 after read a number of articles and seeing lots of recommendations for it.  Don't mind buying something new again for my upcoming build, but only if it's really noticeable.


I do know for sure that there is a noticeable difference between MX-4 and Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut. Kryonaut is supposedly the better paste, and right now has probably the best reputation of any of the "high end" thermal pastes. MX-4 is going to be better than stock, but if you're an enthusiast, investing $10-$20 in good thermal paste is worth it imo.
#30
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