maniacvvv
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https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/04/microcode-update-guidance.pdf So that's it  Intel and its partner EVGA have apparently decided that is cheaper to replace these systems than to patch them. OK then, its time to begin the RMA on my EVGA x58 (e760) motherboard under "lifetime warranty" along with a replacement CPU and RAM to functional equivalents to be provided by EVGA. I completely understand that some things like (4) PCIE x16 supported slots or 50% overclocking headroom will be unrealistic and I am willing to focus on basic functionality to support my current configuration. Thread count, core speed (actual) , PCIE lanes, RAM bandwidth (actual) and total sata connections I will be calling EVGA personally to go over the details with management. I personally find this decision by Intel and its partner EVGA to be a disgusting example of greed, and hardware replacements will be a huge pain, the amount of my TIME lost and all the "extra" money this will cost just to "have back" what I have NOW really really makes me upset. Little details like replacing the OS (3 of them) and other hardware ID'd software will be challenge (just to mention one example) along with countless others.... All just to have back what i'm using RIGHT NOW.... not a upgrade, just a secure replacement. THAT COMPLETELY SUCKS
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 07:59:08
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 09:19:50
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I have not been able to read the linked article in depth and I see it was intels decision, but how is this EVGA’s fault? The intel microcode, which evga does not control, they just implement, seems to be the issue. I don’t see that being EVGAs fault.
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RchUncleSkeleton
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 10:43:01
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Toyota doesn't make parts for the 72 Celica anymore, either. You should probably call their management and complain...
With Great Power, Comes Great Mistakes
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ShootingFlames
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 10:51:27
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Pretty sure EVGA doesn't make the decision to update microcode on dinosaur age'd CPUs. You are upset at something Intel controls and in turn are deciding to give a completely different company a headache. You must be fun at parties.
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 10:55:38
(permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
I have not been able to read the linked article in depth and I see it was intels decision, but how is this EVGA’s fault? The intel microcode, which evga does not control, they just implement, seems to be the issue. I don’t see that being EVGAs fault.
+1
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ShootingFlames
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 11:18:38
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Wait, I just sort of re read this. Are you insinuating EVGA will also replace your chip and ram? Because that is absolutely not going to happen.
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 11:27:57
(permalink)
ShootingFlames
Wait, I just sort of re read this. Are you insinuating EVGA will also replace your chip and ram? Because that is absolutely not going to happen.
Yes, he wants a replacement motherboard, cpu & ram on evga's dime when it's not even their fault. He needs to speak with Intel not evga.
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bg8780
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 11:42:16
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Westmere chips appear to still be supported by Intel. Will EVGA issue microcode fixes to X58 boards that are compatible with Westmere chips?
I'm also still on an e760 X58 with an i7 970. I also recognize that this hardware is EOL AF so I don't expect anyone to support it. I work in Infosec and can tell you this vuln is blown out of proportion for the home user. Unless you plan on clicking on a piss ton of phishing emails and ads, or like to detonate malware in a VM on this X58 machine, you're pretty safe.
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 11:47:33
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It will all depend on intel. Evga cannot update microcode without intel creating the necessary code
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bdary
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 11:52:35
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bg8780
Westmere chips appear to still be supported by Intel. Will EVGA issue microcode fixes to X58 boards that are compatible with Westmere chips?
I'm also still on an e760 X58 with an i7 970. I also recognize that this hardware is EOL AF so I don't expect anyone to support it. I work in Infosec and can tell you this vuln is blown out of proportion for the home user. Unless you plan on clicking on a piss ton of phishing emails and ads, or like to detonate malware in a VM on this X58 machine, you're pretty safe.
+1. Totally agree...
post edited by bdary - 2018/04/04 11:53:40
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bill1024
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 12:06:40
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Why don't you call EVGA and let us know how you make out, if they gave you a RMA number or not?
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife 
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:10:16
(permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
I have not been able to read the linked article in depth and I see it was intels decision, but how is this EVGA’s fault? The intel microcode, which evga does not control, they just implement, seems to be the issue. I don’t see that being EVGAs fault.
Totally EVGA's responsibility. It is their motherboard that they shipped with "defective" microcode (EVGA suppiled BIOS). Either they provide me with a microcode update to secure my motherboard BIOS so I can continue to use it, or they provide me with a new one that is secure. I was sold (and totally paid a premium) for a "Lifetime Warranty" against "defects in materials and workmanship" and this BIOS issue is clearly both of those. EVGA's and Intels problems over this issue, are their own fault... not mine. I currently have a working primary system that simply needs a BIOS update to be secure and functional. If EVGA can't provide me with such an update (for whatever reason) then it needs to provide me with a replacement and whatever parts are needed to make it functional or a refund of the full purchase price of the warrantied product it cannot support or securely replace. *if EVGA did not want to support these motherboards over time, it should not have offered and sold me a product with a "lifetime warranty" The wording of the EVGA warranty terms is quite clear, and my claim is completely valid under those terms.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 19:32:17
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:16:47
(permalink)
maniacvvv
Totally EVGA's responsibility. It is their motherboard that they shipped with "defective" microcode (EVGA suppiled BIOS).
The defective code came from Intel. EVGA didn't create the code. Time to talk to Intel.
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RchUncleSkeleton
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:25:05
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maniacvvv
the_Scarlet_one
I have not been able to read the linked article in depth and I see it was intels decision, but how is this EVGA’s fault? The intel microcode, which evga does not control, they just implement, seems to be the issue. I don’t see that being EVGAs fault.
Totally EVGA's responsibility. It is their motherboard that they shipped with "defective" microcode (EVGA suppiled BIOS).
Either they provide me with a microcode update to secure my motherboard BIOS so I can continue to use it, or they provide me with a new one that is secure.
I was sold (and totally paid a premium) for a "Lifetime Warranty" against "defects in materials and workmanship" and this BIOS issue is clearly both of those.
Wow. "Defective" is reaching. The microcode that is supplied by Intel was not an issue until the exploit came about. EVGA has no control over that and you can't honestly expect a company to support a board that's been out of production for 8 or 9 years. Technology moves fast, something you don't seem to understand. EVGA's warranty provides you with the option of a replacement or repair for the product they sold you in the event of a hardware failure. No promises of BIOS or Microcode updates are made in the warranty, as those are for the most part reliant on the chipset/cpu maker to provide. Why don't you see if ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI are providing microcode updates to their legacy products.
With Great Power, Comes Great Mistakes
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:28:17
(permalink)
Sajin
maniacvvv
Totally EVGA's responsibility. It is their motherboard that they shipped with "defective" microcode (EVGA suppiled BIOS).
The defective code came from Intel. EVGA didn't create the code. Time to talk to Intel.
I expected better from you. You know as well as I do that while Intel may provide EVGA with the CPU microcode, it is the EVGA produced (and sold to me) BIOS that we are talking about. I don't need the Intel microcode, EVGA does My claim is based on my EVGA product which has a defective BIOS. The facts about this defect are not in dispute. The BIOS on my e760 is defective as shipped from EVGA This is 100% EVGA's problem
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:34:44
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RchUncleSkeleton
maniacvvv
the_Scarlet_one
I have not been able to read the linked article in depth and I see it was intels decision, but how is this EVGA’s fault? The intel microcode, which evga does not control, they just implement, seems to be the issue. I don’t see that being EVGAs fault.
Totally EVGA's responsibility. It is their motherboard that they shipped with "defective" microcode (EVGA suppiled BIOS).
Either they provide me with a microcode update to secure my motherboard BIOS so I can continue to use it, or they provide me with a new one that is secure.
I was sold (and totally paid a premium) for a "Lifetime Warranty" against "defects in materials and workmanship" and this BIOS issue is clearly both of those.
Wow. "Defective" is reaching. The microcode that is supplied by Intel was not an issue until the exploit came about. EVGA has no control over that and you can't honestly expect a company to support a board that's been out of production for 8 or 9 years. Technology moves fast, something you don't seem to understand. EVGA's warranty provides you with the option of a replacement or repair for the product they sold you in the event of a hardware failure. No promises of BIOS or Microcode updates are made in the warranty, as those are for the most part reliant on the chipset/cpu maker to provide. Why don't you see if ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI are providing microcode updates to their legacy products.
While you are correct that my motherboard is old, age has absolutely no meaning under a "lifetime" warranty against defective materials and workmanship. The microcode that Intel provided to EVGA was defective, EVGA then produced a BIOS with that defective microcode and sold it to me. My standing in this issue is quite clear under the warranty terms
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 17:38:50
(permalink)
maniacvvv
The microcode that Intel provided to EVGA was defective, EVGA then produced a BIOS with that defective microcode and sold it to me.
They had no choice but to use such code. So it's now their fault? Hmm ok.
post edited by Sajin - 2018/04/04 17:57:37
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:06:48
(permalink)
Thanks for the change of heart on locking the tread.
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:08:31
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So have you spoke to evga yet? If yes, what did they say?
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:12:00
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Sajin
maniacvvv
The microcode that Intel provided to EVGA was defective, EVGA then produced a BIOS with that defective microcode and sold it to me.
They had no choice but to use such code. So it's now their fault? Hmm ok.
Yep Just like a defective airbag, it the end seller who is responsible. If you bought a honda with a takata airbag, its honda that is responsible for replacing it. EVGA will certainly have a valid claim against Intel for all the costs associated with Intel's decision to not support my microcode...
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:16:35
(permalink)
Sajin
So have you spoke to evga yet? If yes, what did they say?
Nothing official from Intel or EVGA has been posted yet, I imagine they are having meetings and talking with lawyers Given the well known and documented profit margins on the old CPU's and Motherboards in question... I expect that the end result will be refunds of purchase costs, that being the cheapest option for the corporations involved. Just having a lawyer simply respond to a lawsuit, would cost way more... and losing could end up being a freight train nitemare for them. Of course for me, it's just all one big hassle. I am completely happy with my current system and would most certainly prefer a simple BIOS update.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 18:32:34
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:28:25
(permalink)
I personally don't think evga owns you anything, and even if they did it would be a motherboard only. Asking evga to replace the cpu & ram is just ridiculous.
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:40:53
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Sajin
I personally don't think evga owns you anything, and even if they did it would be a motherboard only. Asking evga to replace the cpu & ram is just ridiculous.
I'm fine with that, EVGA can send me a x58 motherboard with a secure BIOS If not, then EVGA will be honoring it's documented warranty in a manner that I find acceptable. At this point, I'm just looking to have a secure system.... EVGA would be wise to encourage my flexibility and thoughts of compromise over a $450 part I'm sure someone there understands how expensive this could become, should they fail to honor their contract agreements and I become angry and litigious.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 18:44:56
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Sajin
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 18:50:39
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maniacvvv
EVGA can send me a x58 motherboard with a secure BIOS
So possible when they can't get secure microcode from Intel.
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 19:09:08
(permalink)
Sajin
maniacvvv
EVGA can send me a x58 motherboard with a secure BIOS
So possible when they can't get secure microcode from Intel.
Which brings us to where i'm at today. Apparently it's "nobody's fault" I have a defective product and no one is going to fix such old hardware..... There's just that pesky "lifetime warranty" thing that EVGA is responsible for. My hope is that EVGA does the right thing
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 19:27:10
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 19:41:48
(permalink)
How do you prove that the defect that intel says isn’t enough to focus on directly effects you? I suggest you speak with a lawyer, not a public forum when I ask that. Clearly you know more than intel and evga, and think they should bow to you. Good luck in your adventure. P.s. evga doesn’t write the microcode. Get over that. You’re making yourself look foolish saying their bios was the problem when you know well enough that intel is the root to your issue here. Remember when everyone wanted evga to correct the Nvidia 970 issue when it was discovered that the 970 only has 3.5gb if fast vram and then .5gb of significantly slower vram??? Remember how evga didn’t do anything because it was caused by Nvidia... remember how the class action suit settled and a minuscule check came from Nvidia... remember how that wasn’t from evga... same scenario.. again, good luck in your meaningless quest to force evga to do something about an old architecture because of a microcode they literally can not control and they do not have.
post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2018/04/04 19:56:59
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 19:57:40
(permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
How do you prove that the defect that intel says isn’t enough to focus on directly effects you? I suggest you speak with a lawyer, not a public forum when I ask that.
Clearly you know more than intel and evga, and think they should bow to you.
Good luck in your adventure.
P.s. evga doesn’t write microcode. Get over that. You’re making yourself look foolish saying their bios was the problem when you know well enough that intel is the root to your issue here.
Perhaps you should read the EVGA lifetime warranty You do not appear to understand that Intel's microcode is acquired by EVGA and then modified (at its own cost) for its specific hardware. It is then shipped with the motherboard as a EVGA product. Intel may be the root of the problem, but its not mine... its EVGA's problem with Intel supplied microcode (or lack of in this case). This issue would be completely moot, except for the warranty that I certainly paid for in this case. And warranty is a contract that I expect to be honored. And lastly, since you do not appear to care at all about this issue. -->Please run your system without any microcode or OS patches for the security issues in question.  If not, I suggest you allow me to attempt to secure my system as best I can.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 20:18:19
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 20:06:05
(permalink)
Maybe you should read up on the current updates. Evga modifies the bios with the new microcode provided from intel that corrects the flaw. Keywords, microcode from intel. No microcode, no way to update. Take your complaint where it counts the most, and go to intel. Get them to reinstate the code process
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 20:15:48
(permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
Maybe you should read up on the current updates. Evga modifies the bios with the new microcode provided from intel that corrects the flaw. Keywords, microcode from intel. No microcode, no way to update. Take your complaint where it counts the most, and go to intel. Get them to reinstate the code process
Nope, not playing the run around game where it's everyone else's fault but theirs. The buck stops right at EVGA's door and my lifetime warranty. Pesky thing, those contracts you use to sell stuff....
post edited by maniacvvv - 2018/04/04 20:17:01
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maniacvvv
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Re: Intel Meltdown and Spectre patch (Bloomfield) development stopped. RMA time
2018/04/04 20:22:16
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I think I'm done with posting here until I hear a official reply from EVGA, then I will post back.
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