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Helpful ReplyHot!Force Memory Training - What it does?

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ZoranC
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2020/03/23 00:47:16 (permalink)
When it enabled what it does?
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Cool GTX
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 05:42:41 (permalink)
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 
Which MB are you asking about ?

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ZoranC
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 10:05:00 (permalink)
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?
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Cool GTX
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 10:59:00 (permalink)
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.

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ZoranC
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 15:57:58 (permalink)
Cool GTX
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.




Yes, that is 30K feet picture I already am aware of, I am hoping to learn more specifics.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 16:15:26 (permalink)
ZoranC
Cool GTX
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.




Yes, that is 30K feet picture I already am aware of, I am hoping to learn more specifics.




Oh? Perhaps then, instead of your generic question, you should ask specific questions. I mean, the answer you got was pretty specific unless you're looking for EE level material and those of use with that level of experience, do not waste time for free. We get paid to waste it!Be more specific in what you're needing a deeper understanding of.

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 17:24:58 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
ZoranC
Cool GTX
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.




Yes, that is 30K feet picture I already am aware of, I am hoping to learn more specifics.




Oh? Perhaps then, instead of your generic question, you should ask specific questions. I mean, the answer you got was pretty specific unless you're looking for EE level material and those of use with that level of experience, do not waste time for free. We get paid to waste it!Be more specific in what you're needing a deeper understanding of.



Which settings exactly it ends up retraining?
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HeavyHemi
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 17:42:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2023/07/23 14:50:44
ZoranC
HeavyHemi
ZoranC
Cool GTX
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.




Yes, that is 30K feet picture I already am aware of, I am hoping to learn more specifics.




Oh? Perhaps then, instead of your generic question, you should ask specific questions. I mean, the answer you got was pretty specific unless you're looking for EE level material and those of use with that level of experience, do not waste time for free. We get paid to waste it!Be more specific in what you're needing a deeper understanding of.



Which settings exactly it ends up retraining?


https://www.systemverilog...zation-and-calibration

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#8
ZoranC
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/23 18:39:16 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
ZoranC
HeavyHemi
ZoranC
Cool GTX
ZoranC
Cool GTX
finds the stable setting for your RAM
 Which MB are you asking about ?



X299 Dark
Which settings it exactly tries to figure out, please, and how exactly does it work?




You Best OC Guide for the EVGA  X299 Dark ... and the other EVGA X299 MB
 
 
https://xdevs.com/guide/e299ocg/
 
(excerpt) (spaces added for readability)
 
Before DDR4 system memory can function propertly, it must “train”. The term “training” in the context of memory operation applies to adjustment and tuning procedures that are performed by the memory controller inside CPU and BIOS.
 
Due to wide bus and big distance between CPU silicon and DDR4 chip training is required to adjust and measure signal propagation delays, specific to each instance of motherboard, connectors and memory module.

Every piece of hardware is little different, and training allows determination of the delay adjustments to guarantee that bits like zeros and ones arrive at proper timing between the devices.
 
Based on test results, using various Kabylake-X and Skylake-X CPUs on multiple boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.




Yes, that is 30K feet picture I already am aware of, I am hoping to learn more specifics.




Oh? Perhaps then, instead of your generic question, you should ask specific questions. I mean, the answer you got was pretty specific unless you're looking for EE level material and those of use with that level of experience, do not waste time for free. We get paid to waste it!Be more specific in what you're needing a deeper understanding of.



Which settings exactly it ends up retraining?


https://www.systemverilog...zation-and-calibration




Thank you for the link. While it is a detailed explanation of how in general DDR4 retraining works it doesn't, unless I am missing something, answer which ones of the settings exactly X299 Dark's retraining alters. Am I wrong?
#9
Cool GTX
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2020/03/25 16:23:37 (permalink)
HeavyHemi
 boards, optimal DDR4 clock range is in 3400-3600 MHz for everyday use.

https://www.systemverilog...zation-and-calibration




That was Interesting reading



This link was inside the one you gave ... short & to the point :   DDR4_miniWorkshop.pdf

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/07/23 13:38:25 (permalink)
Should memory trainning be on all the time? or only during new setup.  Been suing board for 3 years now, and always left it forced, even with
custom settings.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/07/31 16:58:51 (permalink)
dmann304
Should memory trainning be on all the time? or only during new setup.  Been suing board for 3 years now, and always left it forced, even with
custom settings.

I doubt that anyone on this forum, short of some EVGA techs, knows correct answer and I don't see EVGA techs providing any input, which I believe is very disappointing. So I, just like you, have left it on for 'just in case'.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/01 21:34:36 (permalink)
The EVGA forums is mostly a user to user forum.
 
For technical support, best to contact EVGA directly

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/01 21:44:20 (permalink)
Cool GTX
For technical support, best to contact EVGA directly

... that didn't provide me with answer either when I contacted them about it so ...


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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/01 23:20:21 (permalink)
ZoranC
dmann304
Should memory trainning be on all the time? or only during new setup.  Been suing board for 3 years now, and always left it forced, even with
custom settings.

I doubt that anyone on this forum, short of some EVGA techs, knows correct answer and I don't see EVGA techs providing any input, which I believe is very disappointing. So I, just like you, have left it on for 'just in case'.


Memory training really should only be forced if you're trying new settings (memory speeds/timings, overclock, etc.).  I would set XMP or your settings manually, then run training, and then leave it until your make a hardware change or overclock/underclock your settings.  Anything after that will be diminishing returns.
 
The link above explained that memory training allows the board to internally calibrate its data and voltage transmissions between the board and the memory due to the physical distance each DIMM is from the memory controller (among other things) to better tune performance and optimize behavior.  Even if you set DIMMs to use the same primary memory timings, there will still be small differences in how fast the board can communicate to and from each DIMM.  With training, the board tests and modifies its behavior to optimize latency.
 
If you're looking for an analogy, it's not unlike calibrating a surround sound speaker configuration.  Whether you manually enter the distance each speaker is from you or use a mic for a receiver (or similar), the goal is to adjust the distance each speaker is from the target so that the sound reaches the target at the same time from each speaker.  Without calibration, different distances could leave you with an unbalanced sound system.  Once you have your speakers calibrated, you don't really need to run it again unless you physically move your speakers, add/remove speakers, change your receiver/speakers, etc.
 
Training works best with new memory, if you add/remove memory, or mess around with overclocking (CPU, board, and/or memory).  If you've made other hardware changes, feel free to also run the training, if you want.  It doesn't really benefit you much to always force training if your system stays the same for a long period of time.  I would just run training once after make any performance changes, and then turn it off.

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/01 23:27:14 (permalink)
ZoranC
Cool GTX
For technical support, best to contact EVGA directly

... that didn't provide me with answer either when I contacted them about it so ...




You can also call them. 

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/02 16:44:23 (permalink)
rjohnson11
ZoranC
Cool GTX
For technical support, best to contact EVGA directly

... that didn't provide me with answer either when I contacted them about it so ...




You can also call them. 

That is exactly what I did.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/08/03 07:57:20 (permalink)
NordicJedi
ZoranC
dmann304
Should memory trainning be on all the time? or only during new setup.  Been suing board for 3 years now, and always left it forced, even with
custom settings.

I doubt that anyone on this forum, short of some EVGA techs, knows correct answer and I don't see EVGA techs providing any input, which I believe is very disappointing. So I, just like you, have left it on for 'just in case'.


Memory training really should only be forced if you're trying new settings (memory speeds/timings, overclock, etc.).  I would set XMP or your settings manually, then run training, and then leave it until your make a hardware change or overclock/underclock your settings.  Anything after that will be diminishing returns.
 
The link above explained that memory training allows the board to internally calibrate its data and voltage transmissions between the board and the memory due to the physical distance each DIMM is from the memory controller (among other things) to better tune performance and optimize behavior.  Even if you set DIMMs to use the same primary memory timings, there will still be small differences in how fast the board can communicate to and from each DIMM.  With training, the board tests and modifies its behavior to optimize latency.
 
If you're looking for an analogy, it's not unlike calibrating a surround sound speaker configuration.  Whether you manually enter the distance each speaker is from you or use a mic for a receiver (or similar), the goal is to adjust the distance each speaker is from the target so that the sound reaches the target at the same time from each speaker.  Without calibration, different distances could leave you with an unbalanced sound system.  Once you have your speakers calibrated, you don't really need to run it again unless you physically move your speakers, add/remove speakers, change your receiver/speakers, etc.
 
Training works best with new memory, if you add/remove memory, or mess around with overclocking (CPU, board, and/or memory).  If you've made other hardware changes, feel free to also run the training, if you want.  It doesn't really benefit you much to always force training if your system stays the same for a long period of time.  I would just run training once after make any performance changes, and then turn it off.




Thanks for those details

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/07 18:16:57 (permalink)
I been playing around with timings lately to get latency down, like secondaries, and sometimes forget to enable trainning while testing, but when i do and
turn it off after settings, system boots up, but if i have it off and play settings, i get bsod on bootup. so this feature is vital.   
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/07 18:23:45 (permalink)
dmann304I been playing around with timings lately to get latency down, like secondaries, and sometimes forget to enable trainning while testing, but when i do and turn it off after settings, system boots up, but if i have it off and play settings, i get bsod on bootup. so this feature is vital.

I have decided to play safe and left it on all the time. I figured it can't hurt and keeps me on the safe side.
 
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/08 14:42:44 (permalink)
You mean, the trainning option? right.  I use too, but some say, it is like safe mode for ram to point settings in right directrion , and off to let the
horses run with settings.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/08 17:25:24 (permalink)
dmann304
You mean, the trainning option? right.  I use too, but some say, it is like safe mode for ram to point settings in right directrion , and off to let the
horses run with settings.

I don't know about that.  I think turning off memory training just improves cold boot time a bit.  It lets the system use the previous tertiary timings without retesting them, as far as I know.

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/12 19:20:14 (permalink)
I have it off, and seems solid.  I though this was just for during tuning of the ram.  Boildzoid says it can slow down 
performance in windows if its on.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/12 19:42:05 (permalink)
dmann304
Boildzoid says it can slow down performance in windows if its on.

Huh, weird.  I thought everything stayed static after POST finished.  I had no idea that things could stay dynamic and performance could be adjusted and affected after POST.

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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/12 19:56:58 (permalink)
dmann304I have it off, and seems solid.  I though this was just for during tuning of the ram.  Boildzoid says it can slow down performance in windows if its on.

To my knowledge it does training on boot and after that under ideal circumstances it should be stable, no further (re)training needed, and thus it can be turned off.  However, I am speculating leaving it on would add safety factor for the off chance things aren't exactly lining up 100% of the time.
 
I am not aware of it doing anything after boot is completed, nor does it impacting system performance after boot makes any sense to me, memory timings do not fluctuate as system runs. I would like to see number of benchmarks proving Buildzoid's statement before blindly trusting it.
 
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/19 14:17:26 (permalink)
Isn't this trainning also needed when doing an OC on CPU's, or does for memory?  Seems 
interesting to know more of this setting besides what it does at boot, and i hear, to leave 
fast boot off, to really let trainning do its magin on settings, before windows boots up.
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Re: Force Memory Training - What it does? 2023/12/19 14:51:52 (permalink)
dmann304Isn't this training also needed when doing an OC on CPU's, or does for memory?

It is my understanding memory settings are independent of CPU settings so you don't need to but considering it takes practically zero time you got nothing to lose if you redo it to stay on the safe side.
 
dmann304... and I hear, to leave fast boot off, to really let training do its magic on settings, before windows boots up.

It is my understanding what fast boot does has nothing to do with memory timings. I believe fast boot causes issues often enough even on otherwise perfect systems so it should be turned off anyway.
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