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RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat

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captainm
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2020/02/06 17:58:59 (permalink)
Hi all,
 
I'll start off by saying that I know I've screwed something up here, I'm just looking for some advice on information I can gather in order to determine what I need to do to move forward. So I recently (in the last 3 months) built a new PC with a hardline loop with an RTX 2080 Ti FTW 3 Ultra Hydro Copper card (P/N 11G-P4-2489-KR) and today while I was playing Escape From Tarkov, my computer shutdown unexpectedly and when I looked over at my computer, the tubing was drooping. Obviously things were way too hot, but I'm not sure if it was an airflow issue, or if my pump stopped when my computer last went to sleep and didn't start back up when I woke it. After hours of troubleshooting, I've found out that almost certainly it is my GPU that is dead. Without the GPU plugged into a PCI-e slot (I tried all of them on my motherboard as well as on a different computer that I know has working PCI-e slots as well as a different GPU in my new rig's slots), my computer will turn on and begin starting up. When I put my card in the GPU slot with or without the additional PCI power connectors in I get no lights, no radiator fan spin, nothing to indicate that there is even power going to my computer.
 
Is there any additional troubleshooting that I could/need to do in order to more specifically identify the problem? Reviewing my warranty, it doesn't appear that this would be covered since the cause of death is definitely on me, do I have any potential options for repair, or am I just SOL here?
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    Sajin
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:05:29 (permalink)
    GPU's have built in thermal protection to turn the card off if it gets too hot to prevent damage. Sounds like the card just died for some other reason. You can still rma it.
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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:07:46 (permalink)
    Yeah I was thinking that should be the case with the card turning off if it gets too hot, but wasn't positive. Thanks, I'll start the process of RMA-ing it and see how it goes.
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    Sajin
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:08:25 (permalink)

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    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:19:38 (permalink)
    Assuming that you are using PETG, in a well built loop 10/12mm tubes will start to deform and droop at fluid temps as low as 40C. If the tubes are sagging you need to find the source of the overheating issue. Also I would recommend replacing all of the tubes... you blow a tube when the loop is running and chances are you will lose everything in the case depending on where the tube is at. As far as the GPU being toast... I guess anything is possible, but thermal protection in theory should have prevented damage to the GPU. You can always try an RMA the card however if it is less than 30 days old and purchased in the US I would suggest returning the card and purchasing a new one.
     
    Top Tip: 
    Do not build a liquid cooled loop without a temp sensor in the fluid with some type of active monitoring in place. 
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/06 18:27:33

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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:43:45 (permalink)
    That's correct, I am using PETG. I've already started putting together a new loop but wanted to see if I was going to have to plan around a potentially different video card before I finished that up.
    I actually do have a fluid temp sensor, I really don't know how I could've missed temps going up super high. As far as the overheating, as soon as I can get my system back up and running that's my #1 priority, but currently without the GPU which was a significant source of the generated heat I'm a bit  stumped. When I first built the system in November I had some issues with the BIOS recognizing the pump header especially after a wake when which is why I put that as a possibility for the starting cause, but that hasn't happened since I resolved the initial issue.
    Thanks for the advice!
     
    ETA: I didn't know about the 40C thing, though. I don't think my fluid generally gets that high, but what I'd read was that PETG starts to become malleable around 60C, so I really only paid attention to keeping it below that. In any event I'll be doing what I can to lower temps in general even aside from whatever is causing the current overheating issue, but I will definitely be keeping that new number in mind for those improvements.
    post edited by captainm - 2020/02/06 18:47:33
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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 18:57:46 (permalink)
    PETG won't show signs until the 60c area just like soft tubing which is around 65c which by than the tubings are compromised.  40c is fine.  Sounds like you hit VERY high water temps to see the hard tubing compromised which says something went wrong with your loop which needs to be investigated and monitored at all times till the issue is fixed and for future reference, you'll want to add some type of alarms along with water temps. 

    List of your loop including pumps, fans, rads, blocks, etc. and some images would help.
     
    Not to overcomplicate things for ya but if you're up for the challenge, you could use something like this instead of MB headers and run the alarms in a software, etc.

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    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 19:02:19 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    PETG won't show signs until the 60c area just like soft tubing which is around 65c which by than the tubings are compromised.  40c is fine.  Sounds like you hit VERY high water temps to see the hard tubing compromised which says something went wrong with your loop which needs to be investigated and monitored at all times till the issue is fixed and for future reference, you'll want to add some type of alarms along with water temps. 

    List of your loop including pumps, fans, rads, blocks, etc. and some images would help.
     
    Not to overcomplicate things for ya but if you're up for the challenge, you could use something like this instead of MB headers and run the alarms in a software, etc.




    Yeah about that... according to EKWB 40C, they even have it posted on there site. Talked with EKJake and got confirmation on that as well. 

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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 19:32:27 (permalink)
    That's crazy if EK says their tubing is 40c.  A general google search will state 62c but I guess EK's tubing isn't as strong. Some of us will hit 40c water temps in the summer days with AC on or at least with more than 1 GPU.  I used to hit 42c on dual 780s for a long time with no issue since I used soft tubing.  Still using the same tubing as we speak.

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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 19:47:51 (permalink)
    The loop is the video card mentioned, an i9 9900k, and a 360 thick rad from EK (XE series I think?) all in a PC-O11 Dynamic case with the distro block built for the case. Order is pump (in the distro block) to GPU, back to distro, CPU, back to distro, then rad. All EK blocks, tubing, and fittings other than the distro plate made by bitspower, and the block on the card is EVGA obviously. I know the single 360 rad is pushing it for the hardware it's cooling, but my temps have always been low, I'm not overclocking or pushing my computer much at all at the moment, and the airflow is good. The plan is to redo the loop once I can figure out how to fit another rad in there, but with the way my temps have been outside of this specific instance (this computer has gotten a lot of use in the 3 months I've had it running), I haven't wanted to make a bunch of major modifications until the weather warms up (midwest ambient temps are pretty low this time of year). Fluid is EK coolant, no coloring.
     
    I added a picture that I believe was taken right after leak testing was finished and I booted it up for the first time.

    post edited by captainm - 2020/02/06 19:51:28
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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 19:52:53 (permalink)
    Hmm, it looks like my last post didn't actually go through? Anyway here it is again:
     
    The loop is the video card mentioned, an i9 9900k, and a 360 thick rad from EK (XE series I think?) all in a PC-O11 Dynamic case with the distro block built for the case. Order is pump (in the distro block) to GPU, back to distro, CPU, back to distro, then rad. All EK blocks, tubing, and fittings other than the distro plate made by bitspower, and the block on the card is EVGA obviously. I know the single 360 rad even thick version is pushing it for the hardware it's cooling, but my temps have always been low, I'm not overclocking or pushing my computer much at all at the moment, and the airflow is good. The plan is to redo the loop once I can figure out how to fit another rad in there, but with the way my temps have been outside of this specific instance (this computer has gotten a lot of use in the 3 months I've had it running), I haven't wanted to make a bunch of major modifications until the weather warms up (midwest ambient temps are pretty low this time of year). Fluid is EK coolant, no coloring.
     
    Apparently I can't upload pictures or put links because I haven't posted enough, but the Imgur URL ends with a/ibVLgHE
    post edited by captainm - 2020/02/06 19:55:48
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    kevinc313
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 20:27:53 (permalink)
    jasoncodispoti
    Assuming that you are using PETG, in a well built loop 10/12mm tubes will start to deform and droop at fluid temps as low as 40C. If the tubes are sagging you need to find the source of the overheating issue. Also I would recommend replacing all of the tubes... you blow a tube when the loop is running and chances are you will lose everything in the case depending on where the tube is at. As far as the GPU being toast... I guess anything is possible, but thermal protection in theory should have prevented damage to the GPU. You can always try an RMA the card however if it is less than 30 days old and purchased in the US I would suggest returning the card and purchasing a new one.
     
    Top Tip: 
    Do not build a liquid cooled loop without a temp sensor in the fluid with some type of active monitoring in place. 




     
    Damn.  If I ever build a custom loop I'm going to use automotive coolant hoses, assuming I can get proper fittings.  Having a pile of wimpy plastic tubes holding back fluid from several thousand dollars of electronics sounds like a bad idea, lol.
    #12
    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 20:41:26 (permalink)
     
    Once you start rebuilding it again, make sure to leak test to see that the rubber seals weren't compromised either from the high water temps.  If I had to guess, you were close or around 60c or higher in water temps.  Now what caused this, it could be too low of a flow or the pump wasn't operating till thermal shutdown.  Just monitoring the temps from now on till everything normalizes.  

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    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 21:00:04 (permalink)
    GTXJackBauer
    That's crazy if EK says their tubing is 40c.  A general google search will state 62c but I guess EK's tubing isn't as strong. Some of us will hit 40c water temps in the summer days with AC on or at least with more than 1 GPU.  I used to hit 42c on dual 780s for a long time with no issue since I used soft tubing.  Still using the same tubing as we speak.




    Pretty much all of the 10/12mm PETG tubes will start to deform at 40C depending on usage... its mostly due to how thin the tube is. If you step up to 12/16mm this becomes less of an issue... You generally want the coolant temp to be within 10C of ambient air temperature so about the max you would want the room to be would be 85F which would be 29.4C so fluid temp should not be more than 39.4C in those conditions. 
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/06 21:17:15

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    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 21:02:15 (permalink)
    kevinc313
     
     
    Damn.  If I ever build a custom loop I'm going to use automotive coolant hoses, assuming I can get proper fittings.  Having a pile of wimpy plastic tubes holding back fluid from several thousand dollars of electronics sounds like a bad idea, lol.




    There are other tubing options that can take higher temps and are less prone to deforming. 

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    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/06 21:12:12 (permalink)
    I just went back to look at my Reddit conversation with EKJake about this, looks like I misstated the temperature above. 
     
    "...The short answer is that PETG sees deformation at around 60C coolant temps. But it's possible that lower temps, say 50C+, can lead to deformation over time versus more rapid failure..."
    EKJake. 
     
    What lead to this conversation with EKJake was the following; 
    If you go to https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-hd-petg-insert-10-12mm-10pcs they sell PETG Inserts where EK states the following...
    "The EK-HD PETG Inserts are EK's way of battling against potential deformation hazards that the use of PETG tubes present. PETG tubes are extremely popular because of the ease of use and their flexibility. On the other hand, PETG tubing, especially the thin tube wall models (10/12) are prone to deformation when exposed to high temperatures (40°C and above). The deformation rate depends on the duration and maximum temperature reached. These temperatures can be reached with pump failures, water block clogging, etc."
     
    Too me this implies that the PETG tubes are deforming around 40C, but EKJake seemed to contradict that statement. From personal experience I can tell you that I have ran into issues at 40C. I have a single tube that travels up the side of my case from the very bottom to the very top and one day I did have an issue that allowed the fluid to reach near 40C, but not exceed it and that longer tube did bend. As a result I had to drain the entire loop and replace that tube that had started to flex. Now in this situation I believe that it was less about the temperature of the fluid and more about the length of the tube. However it only happened when the fluid temps reached near 40C. 
     
    If I had known about this issue with 10/12 tubing prior to building my PC and purchasing fittings I would have gone with the thicker tubing, but at the time EKWB did not have this information posted on there site.
     
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/06 21:15:32

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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/07 10:50:48 (permalink)
    If I had known that the thicker tubes would hold up better I might've gone with them (not that it's really relevant in this specific scenario), but it was my first hardline build and getting all the bends perfect was tough enough with the supposedly more pliable 10/12 PETG lol.
    In regards to checking the rubber seals, that's a good note and I'm likely just going to replace them all since I have to order a bit more tubing anyway. I'll also look into that link you posted about setting up an automatic alarm via software as it looks interesting, and being up for the challenge is what lead me to doing the hardline build in the first place!
    EVGA support got back to me and I'm sending the card in. I'll put any relevant follow-ups in here and the original cause if I'm able to figure it out.
    Thanks for all of the help!
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    mattman657
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/09 06:53:00 (permalink)
    It's possible EKJake is calling out 40c as a means to have people aim for lower temps to give a greater safety threshold. Why play with fire by being ok with having temps so close to that danger zone? Ya know?

    While although you call out you're not oc'ing your 9900k, even stock that chip pumps out some heat. I personally would have more Rad for a 9900k and 2080ti in the same loop. But that's coming from someone who's always believes in extra radiator space just to be safe, aka self admitting overkill.

    I may have missed it in your posts, but do you have any temp benchmarks with the tried and true tests? Prime95, Heaven Benchmark, 3DMark, etc? If I were you, along with swapping out your tubing I'd check your cpu thermal paste application as well. Might as well use the time while waiting for you rma to do an overall sanity check.

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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/09 15:28:47 (permalink)
    I don't have any recorded tests, and didn't get a fluid temp sensor until after I did my original benchmarking, but with 3DMark doing Fire Strike/FS Ultra, and Time Spy my CPU and GPU temps were staying around mid 60s under full load during both benchmarking and stress tests. Not super cool, and like I said I know I'm pushing the limit of my rad at least a little with my current setup and the plan is to add more radiator space, I just physically can't without any case modding which will be done eventually, I just haven't gotten around to it yet since outside of this specific instance my temps have always been fine.
     
    I did end up replacing my hydronaut paste and cleaned out my water block while I had everything taken apart, and flushed out my radiator etc to make sure there wasn't any gunk building up. The old paste looked fine, no gunk or anything in the fluid or block/rad that I could notice.
     
    I'm starting to think that it must have just been that my pump failed to start up when I woke my computer since I had only been playing for about 20 minutes when this happened, and the pump thing was something that happened before. I don't know what I could do to make sure it's prevented - the pump is pretty quiet so I never notice it over the noise of my rad fans. I am thinking that setting an alarm to my fluid temp sensor is probably the only thing I can do to protect myself from this.
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    AHowes
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/09 16:42:21 (permalink)
    You get something like this and then you can see if the fluid is moving or not.. no flow the pump is not running.

    https://www.microcenter.c...hexagon-flow-indicator

    I use 2 of these.. 1 for ea pump.. could of just used one. I used them for function and to help with a major bend in my hardline.

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    captainm
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/10 13:00:49 (permalink)
    That definitely could be helpful for a major bend - that isn't something that I'd thought of before. However, I have an easy enough time determining if the pump is running or not if I look for it, it's more that if I don't specifically look for it I won't know that it isn't running. Unless these flow indicators make a lot of noise (which would defeat a lot of the purpose of my build as I like how quietly it runs), I feel like it wouldn't really help my specific problem as I would still need to specifically look at the indicator to see if it is spinning. That is a helpful idea, though. Thank you
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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Hydro Copper Dead After Overheat 2020/02/10 13:09:17 (permalink)
    captainm
    That definitely could be helpful for a major bend - that isn't something that I'd thought of before. However, I have an easy enough time determining if the pump is running or not if I look for it, it's more that if I don't specifically look for it I won't know that it isn't running. Unless these flow indicators make a lot of noise (which would defeat a lot of the purpose of my build as I like how quietly it runs), I feel like it wouldn't really help my specific problem as I would still need to specifically look at the indicator to see if it is spinning. That is a helpful idea, though. Thank you


     
    There are a few flow meters with displays on them, giving you live readings if you're interested.
     
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