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X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates

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bigmyke
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/01/30 10:33:16 (permalink)
I'm not running on 2.05 specture bios.  It is too unstable.  Waiting for a new bios.
#61
Exnetic
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/01/30 15:44:04 (permalink)
I did not like 2.05 either,  My ssd samsungs went half the speed slows things down.
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CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/01/30 23:22:57 (permalink)
Slow is annoying....but not critical. Stable is critical. Not using the patches because your stuff got slow is not a good idea. It is a security fix after all.
#63
GTXJackBauer
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/02 22:30:29 (permalink)
z999z3mystorys
I did have some instability problems with 2.0.5 and it was fixed going back to 2.0.4, x99 classified, 5930k, no OC, also flashed 2.0.5 again after the first time (re-downloaded it too) in case it was a bad flash, but it didn't change anything til I flashed back to 2.04



Was that because of a OC?  Curious because I use a 4.4 Ghz OC and wouldn't want to lose that. 
 
I'm still seeing some issues with others and glad I've held back from doing this update.  Hope another update shows up with more stability across the board but I doubt it.

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CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/03 06:10:07 (permalink)
Having already rolled back the BIOS for testing and seen some measured degree of improvement in stability, I've also been testing the 390 series of nvidia drivers as many have been complaining of stuttering (beyond that caused by the power monitoring bug which is another thing). I'd mostly been using Battlefield 1 for testing. Well, BF1 got updated which kinda screwed up my test bench (you shouldn't go changing things when you're testing!) but after the update I observed stuttering which would better be described as freezing - if I entered the menus in game, the whole screen would freeze for 1-2 seconds before the menus appeared or disappeared.
As an extension of my testing of the interaction of the new drivers and the spectre fixes, I removed KB4056892 and boom, freezing and stuttering is gone.
It should be noted that others who do have this patch installed, do not experience the stuttering/freezing that I recorded. I am using a 5820K and it appears that the issue may be processor/generation-specific (as in, this is happening to haswell but not kaby lake)

This whole spectre 'fix' is clearly a mess. Let me be clear here, I am NOT advocating that people run their systems without security patches. This was done as part of a testing protocol and SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SOLUTION. I'm just keeping you in the loop as to the results of my testing. I have escalated this to nvidia and I would expect that they will interact with microsoft to fix the patch. I have also logged a case with microsoft directly. I'll let you know as things pan out.
#65
GTXJackBauer
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/03 07:53:16 (permalink)
CaptaPraelium
Having already rolled back the BIOS for testing and seen some measured degree of improvement in stability, I've also been testing the 390 series of nvidia drivers as many have been complaining of stuttering (beyond that caused by the power monitoring bug which is another thing). I'd mostly been using Battlefield 1 for testing. Well, BF1 got updated which kinda screwed up my test bench (you shouldn't go changing things when you're testing!) but after the update I observed stuttering which would better be described as freezing - if I entered the menus in game, the whole screen would freeze for 1-2 seconds before the menus appeared or disappeared.
As an extension of my testing of the interaction of the new drivers and the spectre fixes, I removed KB4056892 and boom, freezing and stuttering is gone.
It should be noted that others who do have this patch installed, do not experience the stuttering/freezing that I recorded. I am using a 5820K and it appears that the issue may be processor/generation-specific (as in, this is happening to haswell but not kaby lake)

This whole spectre 'fix' is clearly a mess. Let me be clear here, I am NOT advocating that people run their systems without security patches. This was done as part of a testing protocol and SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SOLUTION. I'm just keeping you in the loop as to the results of my testing. I have escalated this to nvidia and I would expect that they will interact with microsoft to fix the patch. I have also logged a case with microsoft directly. I'll let you know as things pan out.




I also get BF1 lock ups for a few seconds as well.  I don't get that in World of Warcraft or Rocket League.  This all has been happening since last year, way before all these security patches so I think that has to do with Win 10's fall update since that's when I started getting the lock ups around or a GPU driver and or the game itself.  
 
I'm also running on a Haswell-E 5930K.

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#66
faust1200
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/03 17:43:09 (permalink)
LazySoftYes and no. If I read this guide Intel has recall this microcode regarding Haswell/Brodwell E. The recommend going back to version 0x22 from 0x23/0x25.
https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/01/microcode-update-guidance.pdf

 
I'm not sure how to decipher this. Does this mean that Intel is recommending against BIOS version 2.05 for Haswell processors at this moment?
#67
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/03 23:35:30 (permalink)
faust1200
LazySoftYes and no. If I read this guide Intel has recall this microcode regarding Haswell/Brodwell E. The recommend going back to version 0x22 from 0x23/0x25.
https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/01/microcode-update-guidance.pdf

 
I'm not sure how to decipher this. Does this mean that Intel is recommending against BIOS version 2.05 for Haswell processors at this moment?


Yes.
Also, maybe no, since they also say to do what your vendor tells you to do.
This is why I asked for an official word from EVGA.
#68
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/03 23:36:40 (permalink)
GTXJackBauerThis all has been happening since last year, way before all these security patches so I think that has to do with Win 10's fall update since that's when I started getting the lock ups around or a GPU driver and or the game itself. 

Yeh, that's definitely not the same thing, sorry :(
#69
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/04 19:49:19 (permalink)
MS are rolling back the spectre fixes now. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4078130/update-to-disable-mitigation-against-spectre-variant-2 I will be performing tests with the updated BIOS and without these patches.
post edited by CaptaPraelium - 2018/02/05 13:46:55
#70
bdary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/05 08:57:25 (permalink)
Here's what I did.  I flashed the latest BIOS and then installed this > https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm
Then I disabled the Spectre "fix" (using this tool in link) and rebooted.  I plan to keep it this way until Intel gets it all figured out.  And if you were to get worried about not being protected, just enable Spectre from the tool again and reboot.
 
So technically I'm protected from Meltdown, but not Spectre.  But I'll say this, my system ran noticeably more sluggish before I disabled Spectre.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#71
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/05 13:51:26 (permalink)
Sorry, just realised the link I posted was broken. If one follows the links from that document, to this one: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073119/protect-against-speculative-execution-side-channel-vulnerabilities-in

There are official ways to enable or disable either part of the patches via the registry.

Aside from testing, I'm probably going to stay away from the updated microcode and the patches and the drivers.... The microcode is now being advised to be avoided, as are the patches, and the drivers are known to have major issues. Apparently, that Jan 9 deadline for the patches, wasn't enough time, and there wasn't enough testing done. I'm going to wait for new microcode and patches and update when the updates are not broken.

I feel bad for vendors, like EVGA, because I know that they invested their staff's time and effort in making BIOS updates available, only to have intel announce that they are no good, just two weeks later. I like to think that it might be worth EVGA's time, to make a tool to modify existing BIOS with updated microcode. Seems that it would be faster and cheaper, for them to do that, than to have to actually make and release all the new BIOS all over again.
#72
EVGA_Lee
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/06 10:46:26 (permalink)
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.
#73
bdary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/06 11:03:55 (permalink)
EVGATech_LeeM
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.


Thanks for keeping us informed Lee...


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#74
bcavnaugh
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/06 11:05:29 (permalink)
bdary
EVGATech_LeeM
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.


Thanks for keeping us informed Lee...


+1
Should we remove 2.05 on the X99 Classified and return to 2.04?

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#75
bdary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/06 11:15:43 (permalink)
I'll continue to stay on 2.05, but will stay with what I described in post #71 above until the new BIOS is released.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#76
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/06 13:54:44 (permalink)
EVGATech_LeeM
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.


Man, I sure hope intel is subsidising this extra workload for you guys.... Somehow I'm not exactly confident of that though ;)
Good effort, we appreciate it.
#77
EVGA_Lee
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/07 13:31:56 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
bdary
EVGATech_LeeM
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.


Thanks for keeping us informed Lee...


+1
Should we remove 2.05 on the X99 Classified and return to 2.04?


If you haven't seen issues, then I wouldn't worry about flashing back to a previous version.  At this time, we don't expect people to have issues with the BIOS, but if you do run into something that can't be explained by other causes, then try flashing to 2.04 and see if the issue goes away.
#78
EVGA_Lee
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/07 13:38:27 (permalink)
CaptaPraelium
EVGATech_LeeM
Please note that we've temporarily removed the Spectre updates, as we are in the process of providing a new BIOS version with updated microcode.  I do not currently have an expected date of release, however, so we ask that you patiently wait while we work on this.  I will provide further updates when they are available.


Man, I sure hope intel is subsidising this extra workload for you guys.... Somehow I'm not exactly confident of that though ;)
Good effort, we appreciate it.


This is one of those situations that demonstrates why most computer hardware business relationships are defined as "partnerships".  Whether we're working with Intel or Nvidia, things like this happen, and both sides work towards finding a way to resolve issues.  While it certainly puts more of a workload on us, you can probably imagine that Intel is working overtime to resolve the situation quickly.  After all, while EVGA has its own set of needs to provide updated firmware, test boards, etc. for EVGA's customers, Intel has to do the same for all of its vendors and partners on both the desktop and enterprise side, which vastly outnumbers our customer base.  When you think of it that way, I'm OK with the extra workload that it puts on us, lol.
#79
SuperConker
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/08 07:48:03 (permalink)
Looks like a new Bios should be right around the corner for our X99 boards:
 
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-releases-stable-spectre-updates-for-skylake.html
 
(This is For Skylake CPU's, but Haswell-E/Broadwell-E CPU's won't be far behind)
post edited by SuperConker - 2018/02/08 14:16:58


#80
mr_scary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/08 22:11:34 (permalink)
I noticed 2.04 was removed from the download list. I've been running it since 1/14/18 and have not noticed any issues with it.
Is 2.04 safe. or should I Roll Back
 
ursatz
Updated the classy bios today from a usb drive in the bios without issue.  Can't tell any difference in my work or games.  Easy to recreate my modest overclock.  Samsung Magician benchmark shows a huge (like 50%) hit in sequential and random write speeds with my 950pro 1TB sata drive.  Read speeds unchanged.  This is a totally non-scientific and uncontrolled test... more of a before and after thing.

Same thing here, My Samsung 850 Pro took a huge reduction in IOPS. From over 100,000 to 30,000
Was this a cause from BIOS update 2.04
 
EDIT: Rolled back to 2.03 on Secondary BIOS and the SSD performs as it should.
IOPS - 100,585 | 60,302 , However the IOPS writes are a little slow. I was getting over 80,000 on 2.02
I may rollback to 2.02 just to see if it changes.
 
X99 FTW (E997) | 5930k
post edited by mr_scary - 2018/02/08 23:14:50


#81
HarryD
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/02/22 01:31:03 (permalink)
Any update on a new BIOS version?

EVGA X99 Classified
Intel i7-5960X
64GB Corsair Dominator 2400MHz DDR4
 
#82
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/07 15:57:20 (permalink)
More news from intel: https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/03/microcode-update-guidance.pdf

I think that has all of our CPUs covered?
#83
CaptaPraelium
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/21 01:47:17 (permalink)
Download page on intel's website has been updated now too (actually, a while ago, I don't check it daily any more heh) https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/27591/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File?v=t

No news from Microsoft yet, so perhaps those mcu's haven't been 'verified' yet? Who knows.......  https://support.microsoft...ntel-microcode-updates
#84
Alex2190
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/21 08:47:13 (permalink)
yea it'd be nice to get an update on this, my system doesnt quite feel the same as it did with the old bios...
#85
bdary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/21 09:14:40 (permalink)
Alex2190
yea it'd be nice to get an update on this, my system doesnt quite feel the same as it did with the old bios...


Are you using the original BIOS revision that had the "Spectre fix" in it?  If so, I know the feeling.  My system seemed noticeably sluggish using that BIOS.  I reverted back to the previous one.
 
I suspect that even when a new BIOS revision is released for Spectre, it's not going to be any better considering what Spectre is and how it needs to be patched to secure it.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#86
Alex2190
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/21 09:22:26 (permalink)
bdary
Alex2190
yea it'd be nice to get an update on this, my system doesnt quite feel the same as it did with the old bios...


Are you using the original BIOS revision that had the "Spectre fix" in it?  If so, I know the feeling.  My system seemed noticeably sluggish using that BIOS.  I reverted back to the previous one.
 
I suspect that even when a new BIOS revision is released for Spectre, it's not going to be any better considering what Spectre is and how it needs to be patched to secure it.


no i never bothered rolling back to 2.03 - it hasnt really been unstable, just "feels" different - maybe just placebo effect, but if there is a better firmware candidate for the board, i'd like to see that.
#87
bdary
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/03/21 09:30:35 (permalink)
Alex2190
bdary
Alex2190
yea it'd be nice to get an update on this, my system doesnt quite feel the same as it did with the old bios...


Are you using the original BIOS revision that had the "Spectre fix" in it?  If so, I know the feeling.  My system seemed noticeably sluggish using that BIOS.  I reverted back to the previous one.
 
I suspect that even when a new BIOS revision is released for Spectre, it's not going to be any better considering what Spectre is and how it needs to be patched to secure it.


no i never bothered rolling back to 2.03 - it hasnt really been unstable, just "feels" different - maybe just placebo effect, but if there is a better firmware candidate for the board, i'd like to see that.


Got it.  Although I wasn't referring to it being unstable, just sluggish.  If you ran SSD benchmarks before and after the Spectre fix BIOS, you'd see where some of that sluggishness is coming from.  Quite a drop in performance in certain area's.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#88
arestavo
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/04/02 14:27:37 (permalink)
So, is the updated updated microcode coming anytime soon? It's April already, and months have passed since the flawed code was pulled.
#89
aparker591
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Re: X99 BIOS Update with Spectre updates 2018/04/02 17:09:29 (permalink)
Intel did release microcode recently, but it looks like we're still waiting on EVGA to make a BIOS with it. Since I can't post links, Google "intel microcode guidance" for the PDF with the chips they've released it for so far, and their future plans.
post edited by aparker591 - 2018/04/02 17:11:50
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