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EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking

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my_hobby
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2022/01/03 11:06:52 (permalink)
Hello! I spent a lot of time overclocking RAM on this motherboard. As for overclocking the CPU, it's great, so I don't want to change it, but memory overclocking is a big problem. I have three sets of RAM on hand, namely Patriot 2x8gb 3600mhz CL16, G.Skill 2x16GB 3200mhz CL14, Crucial Ballistix 2x16GB 3600mhz CL16. None of them can run above 3600mhz stably except the xmp profile. Even G.Skill can't run at 3600 stably, only managed to run a few times and that's it. What is the problem? A few months ago I tried my CPU and my memory on a friend on another board, there the memory started easy at 4000mhz! I tried to adjust the primary, secondary, tertiary timings, however, only at frequencies up to 3600mhz stable memory. I'm confused about what's going on. 

i7 8700k+EVGA Z370 Classified K+Patriot Viper Elite 2x8GB 3600mhz CL16+EVGA GTX 1080+WD 1TB+EVGA G3 550W+Corsair 760T
#1

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    Sajin
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 01:13:23 (permalink)
    Most likely need to bump some voltages up to get things stable. Specifically vsa/vccio. Try 1.2 to 1.35v on each.
    #2
    my_hobby
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 02:52:29 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Most likely need to bump some voltages up to get things stable. Specifically vsa/vccio. Try 1.2 to 1.35v on each.

    I tried 1.35 for each, but nothing to help. I noticed that the board trains the memory quite badly. Sometimes it can be booted with the same settings, sometimes you have to start all over again. But any xmp profile downloads without problems!
    Maybe there are some tricks to run at higher frequencies or some conditions of the sequence of actions other than the standard voltage rise io and sa?

    i7 8700k+EVGA Z370 Classified K+Patriot Viper Elite 2x8GB 3600mhz CL16+EVGA GTX 1080+WD 1TB+EVGA G3 550W+Corsair 760T
    #3
    coolmistry
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 03:36:38 (permalink)
    Have you try reset default your bios setting back default and then try again test with your memory?

    Windows 11 Home 64bits up to Dated
    i9 11900K 5,275 MHz (3,500 MHz) || EVGA Z590 FTW WIFI || 2 x Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti FE || 32Gb Dominator Platinum DDR3 3600mhz XMP OC 3800mhz || 500gb Samsung 980 Pro NVMe || 500gb Samsung 970 EVO and Sata M.2 (1 x SSD and 1xHHD) || EVGA CLCx 360 Cooler || EVGA Supernova 1300w X3 || EVGA Z10 Keyboard || EVGA TORQ X10 mouse ||EVGA DG 77 case || Acer Predator  X35 35" 200Hz G-Sync || Logitech Z906 5.1 system sounds SPDIF|| Kaspersky Internet Security
    #4
    my_hobby
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 03:59:11 (permalink)
    coolmistry
    Have you try reset default your bios setting back default and then try again test with your memory?

    Many times. Sometimes, even due to unsuccessful overclocking, it was necessary to reflash the BIOS.

    i7 8700k+EVGA Z370 Classified K+Patriot Viper Elite 2x8GB 3600mhz CL16+EVGA GTX 1080+WD 1TB+EVGA G3 550W+Corsair 760T
    #5
    coolmistry
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 04:07:48 (permalink)
    my_hobby
    coolmistry
    Have you try reset default your bios setting back default and then try again test with your memory?

    Many times. Sometimes, even due to unsuccessful overclocking, it was necessary to reflash the BIOS.

    I hope you have latest update BIOS to 1.18 for Classified K
    Try overclock memory without CPU? 

    Windows 11 Home 64bits up to Dated
    i9 11900K 5,275 MHz (3,500 MHz) || EVGA Z590 FTW WIFI || 2 x Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti FE || 32Gb Dominator Platinum DDR3 3600mhz XMP OC 3800mhz || 500gb Samsung 980 Pro NVMe || 500gb Samsung 970 EVO and Sata M.2 (1 x SSD and 1xHHD) || EVGA CLCx 360 Cooler || EVGA Supernova 1300w X3 || EVGA Z10 Keyboard || EVGA TORQ X10 mouse ||EVGA DG 77 case || Acer Predator  X35 35" 200Hz G-Sync || Logitech Z906 5.1 system sounds SPDIF|| Kaspersky Internet Security
    #6
    my_hobby
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/01/04 04:10:00 (permalink)
    coolmistry
    my_hobby
    coolmistry
    Have you try reset default your bios setting back default and then try again test with your memory?

    Many times. Sometimes, even due to unsuccessful overclocking, it was necessary to reflash the BIOS.

    I hope you have latest update BIOS to 1.18 for Classified K
    Try overclock memory without CPU? 

    Yes, I have 1.18. But it doesn't matter on the previous ones either. Installed even a modified bios, without results (

    i7 8700k+EVGA Z370 Classified K+Patriot Viper Elite 2x8GB 3600mhz CL16+EVGA GTX 1080+WD 1TB+EVGA G3 550W+Corsair 760T
    #7
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/03 20:15:06 (permalink)
     
    I have the same board you do, and lately I've been thinking of OCing my RAM a little bit .  First, I note that EVGA only rates the Z370 Classified K at DDR4 4133 OC,
    so I'll have to stay well under that for an easy OC .  I plan to study hisevilnesses' DDR4 overclocking guide for help, cuz I'm dum ;)
    https://www.hisevilness.com/articles/technology/overclocking-guide-for-ddr4-ram.html?showall=1
    I will also use the EVGA QVL list, and Intel XMP profile ( 2.0, I think ) table https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/xmp-for-core-processors.html
    to get some starting points reference for speed, voltage, and timings .
    It should work good for a light to medium OC because I have OC friendly Samsung B-die IC memory modules . https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/
    The B-die finder works well for RAM contemporary to the Z370 chipset .  Also, I removed the plastic from my RAM heat spreaders, and have a case fan on the RAM,
    customized, bro :)
     
    P.S. I don't have any luck using the search function on the EVGA OCing forum .  Too bad .
     
    Hope you get your RAM to high, high speeds !
     
     
    To the Moon !
     
    #8
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/06 01:24:12 (permalink)
    Good news, everyone .
    I have overclocked my 3200 cl 14-14-34 Gskill RAM to 3600 cl 18-18-38 @ 1.40V, 4000 cl 18-18-38 @ 1.42V, and 4000 cl 18-18-38 @ 1.45V . 
    I had to leave the timings on auto, or else the computer would not post, and then required CMOS to be cleared .
    All OCs are stable in heavy use .  Fast boot off, Intel speed step on, Re-bar on, and Intel turbo boost on .
    The 4K @ 1.42V is the best performer raising my Time Spy scores:
     Score At Speed   3200        4000
          over all         14284      14447
          graphics        16592      16679
          CPU              7989        8217
     
    To the Moon !
     
     Intel 8086K CPU + EVGA Z370 Classified K + G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 cl 14-14-14-34 + EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 ULTRA
     
     
    #9
    chinobino.
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/06 01:26:48 (permalink)
    When overclocking RAM on the Z370 Classified K and not using XMP you will need to enter some settings manually, such as;
     
    CAS Latency
    RCD/RP Latency
    RAS Latency
    tFAW (Four Activate Window - the board can usually train tFAW ok with 2 DIMMs, it may need to be set manually if using 4 DIMMs)
    CWL (CAS Write Latency - set this 2 below your CAS Latency)
    RFC (Refresh Row Cycle time)
     
    Some suggested (very loose) timings for each increase in RAM speed, just to see if the board will POST (these numbers are for 2 DIMMs);
     
    3700 = 17-17-17-39 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 41 (FAW), 15 (CWL), 642 (RFC)
    3733 = 17-19-19-39 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 42 (FAW), 15 (CWL), 655 (RFC)
    3800 = 19-19-19-39 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 45 (FAW), 17 (CWL), 666 (RFC)
    3866 = 19-19-19-40 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 47 (FAW), 17 (CWL), 677 (RFC)
    3900 = 19-19-19-40 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 47 (FAW), 17 (CWL), 683 (RFC)
    4000 = 20-19-19-41 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 48 (FAW), 18 (CWL), 700 (RFC)
    4100 = 20-21-21-45 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 50 (FAW), 18 (CWL), 724 (RFC)
    4133 = 21-21-21-45 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 50 (FAW), 19 (CWL), 725 (RFC)
    4200 = 21-25-25-45 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 51 (FAW), 19 (CWL), 736 (RFC)
    4266 = 21-26-26-46 (CAS-RCD-RP-RAS), 52 (FAW), 19 (CWL), 748 (RFC)
     
    Set VDIMM to 1.45 V to make sure your RAM is getting enough voltage, you can try decreasing it later once the board has booted ok at each RAM speed increase.
     
    Once you have found the maximum frequency of your RAM you can start to try to lower the timings one at a time starting with CAS latency.
     
    WARNING: Be careful when lowering RAM timings as you can corrupt the BIOS, it is a good idea to run a memory testing program like Karhu RAM test to see if your RAM is continuously producing errors. 
     
    The above number are from testing 3 different RAM kits on this motherboard, 2 x 8GB Kingston Hyper-X Fury DDR4-2400 (garbage RAM, unknown IC), 4 x 8GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4-4133 (Samsung B-die), 4 x 8GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4-4400 (Samsung B-die).
    post edited by chinobino. - 2022/02/06 01:31:46
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    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/07 17:49:31 (permalink)
    Good info. chinobino !  You reminded me to add another P.S. for anyone who read my other two posts .
    When I was done I restored my RAM to its 3200 XMP profile ( actually works really good that way, and needs only slow fans ),
    and ran the Windows file checker in administrator mode, open command prompt and enter sfc /scannow, to detect and fix
    the Windows files I broke when I had a couple of POST failures .  Should have done it after each one .
    It found corrupted files, and fixed them .  That's what it does :|
    Then I ran Windows memory diagnostic from Windows administrative tools in the Windows start menu to see if I had
    damaged the RAM .  It was fine :)
    If you aren't standing there when it finishes, you have to open event viewer to see the results, and it takes a looong time to run .
    Use event viewer: How to check your Windows 10 PC for memory problems | Windows Central
    Also, in my timing notations I have combined tRCD and tRP because that's how it appears in the Class.K BIOS .
    Sorry if I confused anybody .
     
    To the Moon !
     
    #11
    chinobino.
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/08 01:48:18 (permalink)
    Hi cotter32, I just noticed you posted just before my first post, so I missed it.
    It looks like you have made some great progress and are seeing some nice results!
     
    You make a very good point about also potentially corrupting Windows and making use of the buiit-in Memory diagnostic tool.
    I found the Windows Mem tool to be frustrating for the exact reasons you mention (i.e. takes a long time, have to watch it to see the result or chase it up once it's buried in the event viewer).
    I've found Karhu RAM test to be much more efficient, I have 32GB and can test ~26GB of it while running Windows - although it does not test all of the RAM, it is extremely quick to find errors.
    I know it's not free but it is very reasonably priced IMO for the amount of time it has saved me.
     
    You make a valid point about combining tRCD & tRP as they have been inseparable since Skylake.
    I have pushed my motherboard to its limits with 4 DIMMs at 4133 MHz @ 1.31 V, 19-19-39, FAW 26, RFC 726 (can be lowered to ~540 with 1.50 V VDIMM but not really worth it IMO),
    VCCIO 1.25, VCCSA 1.26 V.
     
    I have found ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.4 to be very useful for checking RTLs at high clock speed and use AIDA64's multi-threaded Cache and Memory Benchmark to confirm any gains.
    #12
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/09 19:21:45 (permalink)
    Thanks, chinobino .  It took me hours to get that little bit of info.  Makes me appreciate the time you must have put into your own settings .
    The 4133 setting is impressive at 1.31V .  Yes, I will probably have to break down and buy some proper benchmark software .  Even though my cheapness doesn't like it .
    I was also impressed by the ClassK BIOS .  I think it did a good job automatically selecting RAM timings for the speeds and volts I fed it .  'not sure I could do better .
    I think next I'll try pairing the 4000 @ 1.42V setting that I got with a modest CPU overclock for heavy work loads ( games ) .
    Also, thanks for the link .
     
    To the Moon  !
     
    #13
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/13 20:06:01 (permalink)
     
    I did the CPU overclock plus the 4000 Mhz RAM overclock .  Worked great .  Once again I let the board do most of the work .
    Set CPU multiplier to 48 for 4.8Ghz all cores @ 1.203V, set RAM speed to 4000 @ 1.41V .  Got stable overclock under heavy load,
    and my best Time Spy score yet:
    OA          14723
    Graph      16785
    CPU         8681
    Frame rate 98.2% stable on Time Spy stress test .  No CPU temps. over 77C, mostly runs at 58C under load .
    Using Noctua NHU-9S air cooler .  Probably nearing its limit for heat dissipation .
    Re Bar on, Fast boot off, Intel speed stepping on, Intel turbo boost on .
     
    To the Moon ... at higher frequencies !
     
            Intel 8086K CPU + EVGA Z370 ClassK MB + 32Gig Gskill Trident Z 3200 cl 14-14-14-34 RAM + EVGA 850 P2 Plat. PSU
     
    #14
    chinobino.
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/14 03:53:24 (permalink)
    Hi cotter32, what CAS are you using for 4000 MHz? Glad you are seeing some good results.
     
    I am using a Noctua NH-U12a, which can easily reach its limit when running AVX (such as 3DMark TimeSpy Extreme CPU test).
     
    Which GPU do you have? I am currently using a RTX 2070 so no REBAR for me.
    #15
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/14 18:29:15 (permalink)
    I've read of people complaining that they loaded the same settings manually that AUTO used, and got failures to POST .
    I figure that they didn't use the right sub-timings, so I'm giving them all .
    Somebody with experience, like yourself, might be able to make heads or tails of them :)
     
    basic timing:
    tCL 18
    tRCD/tRP 18
    tRAS 38
    tRRD_S 7
    tRRD_L 9
    tRTP 12
    tFAW 35
    tCWL 18
    tCMD 2N
     
    second timing:
    tWR 24
    tRFC 522
    tREFI 15600
    tWTR_S 11
    tWTR_L 17
    tCKE 9
     
    third timing:
    tRDRD_SG 7
    tRDRD_DG 4
    tRDRD_DR 6
    tRDRD_DD 7
    tRDWR_SG 12
    tRDWR_DG 12
    tRDWR_DR 12
    tRDWR_DD 12
    tWRRD_SG 42
    tWRRD_DG 36
    tWRRD_DR 10
    tWRRD_DD 10
    tWRWR_SG 7
    tWRWR_DG 4
    tWRWR_DR 10
    tWRWR_DD 10
    tXP 8
    tXPDLL 32
    Memory SPD Write DISABLED
    Voltage 1.41 .  Speed 4000Mhz
     
    ... of course they probably won't work for a system with different equipment :(
    I have an EVGA RTX3080 ULTRA air cooled model .  My main motivation for doing this was to see if the Z370 ClassK could
    make full use of the 3080 .  I'd say so far, yes it can .
     
    P.S. ReBar doesn't help very much, so you're not missing much .
     
    To the Moon !
     
    #16
    chinobino.
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/15 17:04:28 (permalink)
    Hey cotter32 thanks for the info.
     
    I can see you have nice tight RAM timings @ 4000 MHz, you must be getting some nice performance from the 8086K + RTX 3080 combo.
    #17
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/15 19:56:09 (permalink)
    Yes, sir, chinobino, getting good performance .  It plays smooth and nice .  The 3080 runs at 99 to 100% GPU usage during benchmarks .
    I lowered the RAM voltage to 1.405V, lost a tiny bit of performance, but I'm trying not to over-volt .  Primary timings remain the same, 18-18-18-38 .
    Heat will keep me from going farther .  RAM might have already gotten too hot, but I removed the plastic adornments, and have a case fan blowing
    fresh air on them about half an inch away .  It's not good on my board though with the four RAM modules packed in closely beside each other .
    Not much air space at all .  Also need a bigger CPU cooler .  Eventually the 3080 will find its way onto a newer mother board .  Maybe a Z690 :)
     
    P.S. I knew the 8086K could do it because it has an Intel XMP profile for 4700Mhz !
     
    To the Moon !
     
     
    #18
    Romanelo
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/16 01:00:50 (permalink)
    my_hobby
    Sajin
    Most likely need to bump some voltages up to get things stable. Specifically vsa/vccio. Try 1.2 to 1.35v on each.

    I tried 1.35 for each, but nothing to help. I noticed that the board trains the memory quite badly. Sometimes it can be booted with the same settings, sometimes you have to start all over again. But any xmp profile downloads without problems!
    Maybe there are some tricks to run at higher frequencies or some conditions of the sequence of actions other than the standard voltage rise io and sa?



     
    I have already reported on the evga memory training, applied proofs, the bios + version of all timings. but they can't reproduce this problem. In general, they are not going to fix it. Which is very unfortunate
    #19
    Romanelo
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/02/16 01:01:23 (permalink)
    del
    post edited by Romanelo - 2022/02/16 01:04:24
    #20
    cotter32
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    Re: EVGA Z370 Classified K difficult ram overclocking 2022/04/03 15:25:45 (permalink)
    Well chinobino, I had to play around a little more with OCing the 8086CPU, after all it can turbo to 5.0 stock ( one core ) .  So I tried an all core OC to 5.0ghz .
    Got fairly predictable results:
    1.) No stable OC over 4.8ghz under 1.3v starting @ 4.9ghz .  Don't do this unless prepared to deal with bad boot failure and/or system crash; bad things happen .
         sfc /scannow is your friend, friends .
    2.) Temporarily stable at, or above 1.3v up to 5.0ghz until about 85deg CPU temp.  Temp. keeps creeping up under load, then system hangs .
    3.) Best OC for me is still 4.8ghz all cores CPU at 1.21v, with 4000mghz RAM at 1.41v with Intel speed stepping and turbo boost on, good vibrations ;)
     
    To the Moon !
    chinobino.
    Hey cotter32 thanks for the info.
     
    I can see you have nice tight RAM timings @ 4000 MHz, you must be getting some nice performance from the 8086K + RTX 3080 combo.



     
    #21
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