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Helpful ReplyEVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS

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lobstar
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 09:39:01 (permalink)
slovak_killer
I can guarantee silicon lottery has nothing to do with the bios issue, let me explain. My card is drawing on average around 430W, why ? because for whatever reason something limits my core voltage to 980mv, as soons as I apply negative core clock offset, aka -64mhz on core clock the card shoots up to 1043mV and power draw is reaching 480W. If it was related to silicon lottery the card would be unstable at lets say +100mhz core clock offset, however the card is stable on this offset with XC3 bios no problem, drawing around 500W, so whats the conclusion ? Something is hardlimiting our core voltage so it stays under 1000mV, the more core clock u apply the less voltage u get. Im thinking that the boost voltage table is fcked up, but it might also be something power related.



I tested this today.  My voltage behavior is different but when I plug in the magic -64 gpu clock TDP/ nTDP line right up, boost clocks become more stable, board power usage shoots way up (I've never seen 446w before!).  

 
nznat2013
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 10:44:19 (permalink)
We have a beta Bios to add more watts etc to the RTX3090 FTW3 ultra card, but when is a final bios coming? 
matthewr87
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 11:34:04 (permalink)
Could this explain why my Timespy score actually drops with a mild stable OC?
robotbeatrally
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 13:11:14 (permalink)
Deleted. Checking some things will repost later.
post edited by robotbeatrally - 2020/11/28 14:41:12
cerealkeller
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 13:52:03 (permalink)
-64 core offset does appear to do something on the "XOC" BIOS.  I'm able to maintain around 480w for a longer period of time.
zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 14:11:48 (permalink)
I just posted an answer I got when asking EVGA about this through informal channels. It is not an offical answer and might not be correct also as you say.
kvswim
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 14:19:50 (permalink)
Can also confirm the -64 thing, I go from 460 to 475w avg in Port Royal, bursting to 1087mv then hovering 1011-1043mv depending on temp.

Anyone notice some weirdness when manually setting frequency curves in AB? I'm doing the voltage lock trick from the 1080 Ti era but on my flat curve portion the secondary line (not the one you change) does a random dip after applying. I think I could hold 2100-2145mhz in Port Royal if it didn't do that...
arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 14:24:20 (permalink)
I don't get higher wattage from my 3090 FTW3 with the XOC VBIOS by underclocking -64Mhz on the core. With or without a VRAM OC. At least not in Valley benchmark.
cerealkeller
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 14:37:14 (permalink)
kvswim
Can also confirm the -64 thing, I go from 460 to 475w avg in Port Royal, bursting to 1087mv then hovering 1011-1043mv depending on temp.

Anyone notice some weirdness when manually setting frequency curves in AB? I'm doing the voltage lock trick from the 1080 Ti era but on my flat curve portion the secondary line (not the one you change) does a random dip after applying. I think I could hold 2100-2145mhz in Port Royal if it didn't do that...


I can’t set a custom voltage curve in PX at all. And Afterburner did have an issue where it wouldn’t stay where I set it. I’ve seen that many times, but it really wasn’t cooperating properly with this card. I customized my 2080 Ti’s voltage many times, so I know when it’s not working right and it definitely isn’t working right on either one.
nznat2013
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 14:37:20 (permalink)
i can run all the time at 100mhz overclock on core, 1000mhz on Vram, and i set the voltage to +20. I have power limit at max 119
 
is this considered good? 
kvswim
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 15:07:21 (permalink)
cerealkeller
kvswim
Can also confirm the -64 thing, I go from 460 to 475w avg in Port Royal, bursting to 1087mv then hovering 1011-1043mv depending on temp.

Anyone notice some weirdness when manually setting frequency curves in AB? I'm doing the voltage lock trick from the 1080 Ti era but on my flat curve portion the secondary line (not the one you change) does a random dip after applying. I think I could hold 2100-2145mhz in Port Royal if it didn't do that...


I can’t set a custom voltage curve in PX at all. And Afterburner did have an issue where it wouldn’t stay where I set it. I’ve seen that many times, but it really wasn’t cooperating properly with this card. I customized my 2080 Ti’s voltage many times, so I know when it’s not working right and it definitely isn’t working right on either one.

AB sort of works for me, but a 1093mV request usually settles out at 1011ish and the frequency is only loosely in the vicinity of what I set. Definitely isn't working correctly. PX doesn't work at all for voltage curve settings
dejanco
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 15:12:34 (permalink)
nznat2013
i can run all the time at 100mhz overclock on core, 1000mhz on Vram, and i set the voltage to +20. I have power limit at max 119
 
is this considered good? 



i think ...yes!
i cannot get over 60mhz core (stable) and 1049mhz memory.
But in the end I undervolted my card with Afterburner (2000mhz@1000mv) and now the card is efficient, cool and working great. 
changboy
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 15:46:57 (permalink)
 Did you test this setting with 20 games + or 1 game and some benchmark ?
 
Coz you cant talk of real stability without do real test with many kind of load, it can pass some load and can fail with other.
 
Like me i can play some game with gpu oc at +165 and other game will crash but i know with +115 i will get 100% stability over all my games (80). High end overclock system with stability cant be done in 5 minute if you catch what i mean.
xgiovio
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 17:17:19 (permalink)
Hi guys,
sorry but I could't read 75 pages of comments. I have 3090 ftw3 ultra. Flashed xoc beta bios. I can only reach 107% (450w) on power usege hitting the limit even if the voltage and power have been set to maximum in msi afterburner.
Some guys talked about silicon lottery, others about evga cheap components, others about evga marketing choices.
 
I would like to understand:
- Should I return the card?
- Should we wait something to happen?
- Is evga making fun of us?
 
Any other idea, I'm open to receive answers.
Thank you


slovak_killer
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 17:53:26 (permalink)
xgiovio
I would like to understand:
- Should I return the card? Depends if u want to bench right now, LIKE RIGHT NOW
- Should we wait something to happen? Yes !
- Is evga making fun of us? No, They are working on fix
 
Any other idea, I'm open to receive answers.
Thank you





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my FTW3 related dc: discord.gg/kRSfJbvs9k
xgiovio
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 18:16:28 (permalink)
@slovak_killer thank you.
In the meantime I openend a ticket for them describing the same problems we talked.
Hoping to receive info soon.


Kylearan
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 18:39:22 (permalink)
I think I figured out what's going on with the power balancing on these cards.  
This may have absolutely nothing to do with the current Bios issues, or perhaps it does have something to do with it, but here is what I can work out so far.
 
The Current Sense chip controls all of the power regulation between the wattage rails, including from itself.  This is called PP Source Input Power, where PP stands for Power Plane.  It is NOT "PCI Express Slot power".
 
If any power rail has a higher resistance shunt value than the Current Sense shunt, that power rail, or the one with the highest resistance, will control via its shunt, the total amount of TDP allowed with respect to that power rail's absolute maximum limit.  The easiest example here is PCI Express.  Founder's Edition cards have an absolute 79.9W cap on the PCIE slot.  eVGA seems to either have 75W or 85W cap.  The FE card will never use a value this high---at 400W TDP and 114% power limit (from 350W To 400W), the PCIE slot is around 65 to 68W.  But it's master power limit is 79W.
If the Slot has the highest shunt resistance, the total board power cap will be reached when PCIE Slot reaches its maximum allowed Vbios value.  For example, on a FE, you would probably see 160W/160W/80W in GPU-Z (this may vary depending on how the 8 pins are shunted, but you get the picture).  A 15 mOhm stacked shunt (3.75 mOhms total shunt resistance) on PCIE slot and 10 mOhms stacked shunt on all other shunts, will allow you 466 watts of GPU power before PCIE Slot reaches 79 watts, in this case.
 
The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts.  At 400W TDP, it will never pull this limit.
 
MVDDC (FBVDD) is unknown.
 
The Current Sense shunt itself is a special case.  It seems that if the current sensing shunt is a higher resistance than all other shunts (or at least the 8 pin plugs and PCIE Slot shunts!), the resistance of the Current Sense resistor is used for "Normalized TDP" and the 8 pins and PCIE slot power draw is completely rearranged, by having the 8 pin#1 rise up to its max internal TDP value (170W on FE cards), which will be the limiting factor, and reducing the power draw of 8 pin#2 and PCIE slot, in such a way so that 8 pin#1 + 8 pin#2 + PCIE will total up to 350 watts.  If your power TDP slider is at 114%, and you are pulling 400W Total Board Power in GPU-Z (even if you're drawing more via shunt mods), the "Normalized" TDP will show up as 114%, but base TDP will be around 100%.  A shunt modded card will still of course draw more power, but will be limited in TDP To the current sense shunt (Normalized TDP!) rather than the TDP of the 8 pin power plugs and PCIE slot (regular TDP!!!)
 
If the current sense shunt is equal to or lower in resistance than the 8 pins, then the 8 pins will report balanced power, and any shunt with higher resistance will get recalculated to its max limit when total board power TDP gets reached.  For example if PCIE Slot and Current Sense have a 3.5 mOhm total shunt resistance and Chip Power has a 3.75 mOhm total shunt resistance, Chip power will reach 300 watts and signal power limit throttling when total board power approaches 400 Watts in GPU-Z.
 
Obviously this makes full sense if shunt modding and trying to use shunts with slightly different resistances and wondering why your TDP% and Normalized % are not matching, but with a stock board with the normal 5 mOhm shunts, everything should be perfectly in sync and balanced.
 
Tl;dr: i have absolutely no idea what's going on with the eVGA boards and the PCIE Slot (or MVDDC) or any other limits going on.
post edited by Kylearan - 2020/11/28 18:44:29
changboy
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 18:53:34 (permalink)
Do you have an evga rtx-3090 ftw3 ultra ?
If you anwser YES did you mod the pcb ?
If YES do you have positive result at the end ?
If YES what the resistor have you beed use ?
ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 23:38:47 (permalink)
ninshoo
Hi,
 
just for share if anyone interested for test.
 
FTW 3090 Taiwan Rev1.0
Bios XC3
Preset curve stable H24 AIR
MSI AFTERBURNER
 
900 1800
906 1800
912 1815
918 1830
925 1830
931 1845
937 1860
943 1920
950 1980
956 2040
962 2040
968 2040
975 2040
981 2040
987 2085
993 2085
1000 2085
1006 2100
1012 2115
1018 2115
1025 2115
1031 2115
1037 2115
1043 2115
1050 2115
1056 2160
1062 2160
1068 2175
-->2175
 
Next stage --> Water and see thermal throltling
 
 
*Must install and just launch Precision X1 BUT dont touch anything in for fix fan settings on MSI AFTERBURTNER
 


My best result for this setting at the moment





Try all bios possible, try all soft OC, try all curve fan...

Anyone doing full shunt? If yes can we get pics of all resistor and all value of this, and score benchmark for compare performance plz?

AIR COOLING with 2x140mm fan to extract on backplate. (Gain 4°c about)

I try doing curve table for thermal trottling but on air is difficult.

Ty
post edited by ninshoo - 2020/11/28 23:46:52
ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/28 23:57:23 (permalink)
Kylearan
I think I figured out what's going on with the power balancing on these cards.  
This may have absolutely nothing to do with the current Bios issues, or perhaps it does have something to do with it, but here is what I can work out so far.
 
The Current Sense chip controls all of the power regulation between the wattage rails, including from itself.  This is called PP Source Input Power, where PP stands for Power Plane.  It is NOT "PCI Express Slot power".
 
If any power rail has a higher resistance shunt value than the Current Sense shunt, that power rail, or the one with the highest resistance, will control via its shunt, the total amount of TDP allowed with respect to that power rail's absolute maximum limit.  The easiest example here is PCI Express.  Founder's Edition cards have an absolute 79.9W cap on the PCIE slot.  eVGA seems to either have 75W or 85W cap.  The FE card will never use a value this high---at 400W TDP and 114% power limit (from 350W To 400W), the PCIE slot is around 65 to 68W.  But it's master power limit is 79W.
If the Slot has the highest shunt resistance, the total board power cap will be reached when PCIE Slot reaches its maximum allowed Vbios value.  For example, on a FE, you would probably see 160W/160W/80W in GPU-Z (this may vary depending on how the 8 pins are shunted, but you get the picture).  A 15 mOhm stacked shunt (3.75 mOhms total shunt resistance) on PCIE slot and 10 mOhms stacked shunt on all other shunts, will allow you 466 watts of GPU power before PCIE Slot reaches 79 watts, in this case.
 
The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts.  At 400W TDP, it will never pull this limit.
 
MVDDC (FBVDD) is unknown.
 
The Current Sense shunt itself is a special case.  It seems that if the current sensing shunt is a higher resistance than all other shunts (or at least the 8 pin plugs and PCIE Slot shunts!), the resistance of the Current Sense resistor is used for "Normalized TDP" and the 8 pins and PCIE slot power draw is completely rearranged, by having the 8 pin#1 rise up to its max internal TDP value (170W on FE cards), which will be the limiting factor, and reducing the power draw of 8 pin#2 and PCIE slot, in such a way so that 8 pin#1 + 8 pin#2 + PCIE will total up to 350 watts.  If your power TDP slider is at 114%, and you are pulling 400W Total Board Power in GPU-Z (even if you're drawing more via shunt mods), the "Normalized" TDP will show up as 114%, but base TDP will be around 100%.  A shunt modded card will still of course draw more power, but will be limited in TDP To the current sense shunt (Normalized TDP!) rather than the TDP of the 8 pin power plugs and PCIE slot (regular TDP!!!)
 
If the current sense shunt is equal to or lower in resistance than the 8 pins, then the 8 pins will report balanced power, and any shunt with higher resistance will get recalculated to its max limit when total board power TDP gets reached.  For example if PCIE Slot and Current Sense have a 3.5 mOhm total shunt resistance and Chip Power has a 3.75 mOhm total shunt resistance, Chip power will reach 300 watts and signal power limit throttling when total board power approaches 400 Watts in GPU-Z.
 
Obviously this makes full sense if shunt modding and trying to use shunts with slightly different resistances and wondering why your TDP% and Normalized % are not matching, but with a stock board with the normal 5 mOhm shunts, everything should be perfectly in sync and balanced.
 
Tl;dr: i have absolutely no idea what's going on with the eVGA boards and the PCIE Slot (or MVDDC) or any other limits going on.


If understand, all tdp recalculed by powership? Any shunt is so useless, where is the ship? Can we modify any pin of this or no?

Have you source of test and pics?

Ty
drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 01:00:15 (permalink)
Shunt accordingly to what power draw you want and can handle.. that said stock 450w and or the strix bios works better than the beta bios for my ftw
ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 01:40:50 (permalink)
drunknfoo
Shunt accordingly to what power draw you want and can handle.. that said stock 450w and or the strix bios works better than the beta bios for my ftw


Bios strixx on FTW3 work? Bug fan, display port,...?

Better than XC3 bios on ftw3?

Ty
drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 03:51:42 (permalink)
U can check my port royal score (on air, really need a block)
post edited by drunknfoo - 2020/11/29 03:55:32
ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 04:22:58 (permalink)
drunknfoo
U can check my port royal score (on air, really need a block)


Can quote this plz too many page on this thread, and with strixx bios on ftw3?
slovak_killer
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 07:30:31 (permalink)
Someone here that have old nvidia utility, Smash clocks ? If yes PM me pls

EXTREME OVERCLOCKER FROM SLOVAKIA
my FTW3 related dc: discord.gg/kRSfJbvs9k
slovak_killer
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 07:37:35 (permalink)
Kylearan
I think I figured out what's going on with the power balancing on these cards.  
This may have absolutely nothing to do with the current Bios issues, or perhaps it does have something to do with it, but here is what I can work out so far.
 
The Current Sense chip controls all of the power regulation between the wattage rails, including from itself.  This is called PP Source Input Power, where PP stands for Power Plane.  It is NOT "PCI Express Slot power".
 
If any power rail has a higher resistance shunt value than the Current Sense shunt, that power rail, or the one with the highest resistance, will control via its shunt, the total amount of TDP allowed with respect to that power rail's absolute maximum limit.  The easiest example here is PCI Express.  Founder's Edition cards have an absolute 79.9W cap on the PCIE slot.  eVGA seems to either have 75W or 85W cap.  The FE card will never use a value this high---at 400W TDP and 114% power limit (from 350W To 400W), the PCIE slot is around 65 to 68W.  But it's master power limit is 79W.
If the Slot has the highest shunt resistance, the total board power cap will be reached when PCIE Slot reaches its maximum allowed Vbios value.  For example, on a FE, you would probably see 160W/160W/80W in GPU-Z (this may vary depending on how the 8 pins are shunted, but you get the picture).  A 15 mOhm stacked shunt (3.75 mOhms total shunt resistance) on PCIE slot and 10 mOhms stacked shunt on all other shunts, will allow you 466 watts of GPU power before PCIE Slot reaches 79 watts, in this case.
 
The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts.  At 400W TDP, it will never pull this limit.
 
MVDDC (FBVDD) is unknown.
 
The Current Sense shunt itself is a special case.  It seems that if the current sensing shunt is a higher resistance than all other shunts (or at least the 8 pin plugs and PCIE Slot shunts!), the resistance of the Current Sense resistor is used for "Normalized TDP" and the 8 pins and PCIE slot power draw is completely rearranged, by having the 8 pin#1 rise up to its max internal TDP value (170W on FE cards), which will be the limiting factor, and reducing the power draw of 8 pin#2 and PCIE slot, in such a way so that 8 pin#1 + 8 pin#2 + PCIE will total up to 350 watts.  If your power TDP slider is at 114%, and you are pulling 400W Total Board Power in GPU-Z (even if you're drawing more via shunt mods), the "Normalized" TDP will show up as 114%, but base TDP will be around 100%.  A shunt modded card will still of course draw more power, but will be limited in TDP To the current sense shunt (Normalized TDP!) rather than the TDP of the 8 pin power plugs and PCIE slot (regular TDP!!!)
 
If the current sense shunt is equal to or lower in resistance than the 8 pins, then the 8 pins will report balanced power, and any shunt with higher resistance will get recalculated to its max limit when total board power TDP gets reached.  For example if PCIE Slot and Current Sense have a 3.5 mOhm total shunt resistance and Chip Power has a 3.75 mOhm total shunt resistance, Chip power will reach 300 watts and signal power limit throttling when total board power approaches 400 Watts in GPU-Z.
 
Obviously this makes full sense if shunt modding and trying to use shunts with slightly different resistances and wondering why your TDP% and Normalized % are not matching, but with a stock board with the normal 5 mOhm shunts, everything should be perfectly in sync and balanced.
 
Tl;dr: i have absolutely no idea what's going on with the eVGA boards and the PCIE Slot (or MVDDC) or any other limits going on.


Your theory has multiple loop holes, "The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts" this statement is not true as I was able to draw multiple times above 300W.
Also this power balancing doesnt make much sense as if u input -64mhz offset on core clock, nothing in terms of power delivery specs changes but your power draw will shoot up significantly as the card is now boosting to 1043mV. I had no problem sustaining around 470-480W.

EXTREME OVERCLOCKER FROM SLOVAKIA
my FTW3 related dc: discord.gg/kRSfJbvs9k
kvswim
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 07:55:30 (permalink)
slovak_killer
Someone here that have old nvidia utility, Smash clocks ? If yes PM me pls

The one that got mentioned in the Kingpin/GN stream on the 20th? Haven't been able to find it either. I would assume it's Fermi era or newer, but how can an OC utility be this obscure?
ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 09:24:20 (permalink)
drunknfoo
U can check my port royal score (on air, really need a block)

I see, good score.
 
But you say Strix bios + shunted
 
Strix Bios only is better XC3? without shunted?
 
When you say shunt, its only for 3*8 PIN? can stacked R005 on ?
 
Bug strixx bios?
 
Many question sry, but i think the final bios never see day...
 
ty
 
post edited by ninshoo - 2020/11/29 09:27:02
Zgapzy
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 09:48:41 (permalink)
professordumbdumb
manatane
drunknfoo
manatane
Zgapzy
professordumbdumb
I'm in a similar boat.  I've asked for clarification from EVGA - as the card I have will not reach even 400w stock on the  bios.  Pulls 75w from the pci-e slot, and 110/110/ ~ 90w from the pci-e connectors.  If I push the power limiter to 107 on stock bios - it will sometimes pull up to 420w, but never higher despite varied workloads with different OC applied.
 
The XOC bios made no difference to performance, it will never reach above 420w.
20141 serial number model.


It would be nice to just get some type of reply. If i had to send my card in to to get some stuff fixed i would be happy too if it performed as well as the Strix. 


Unfortunately they already answered you that being able to get 500W is now to be considered silicon lottery, which is basically what happens when sourcing components targeting mid-highend market as they did with the voltage regulator on those cards for example (just one of the concrete examples of stuff where they cheaped out). However, it is true it doesn't prevent the card from running at their advertised specs either ...
 
What evga need to realize tho is that whilst they can hold on that and therefore be proud they managed to save some money by not reworking those cards/having a mass replacement for those who got those for higher PL/perceived reputation of product quality / prevent harm to KP sales, it may (and WILL) backfire as burnt customers are unlikely to buy from them again, and unless they're betting on this pandemic being the end of the world, there will be many more GPUs to buy in the future ... from other companies




it isn't based on silicon, cause 500w target isn't reached with the beta bios alone but, 650w+ draws can be achieved with the stock 450w bios while shunted




was refering to this sentence he got back from evga support : 
 

 it is related to the quality of the card itself if it could reach to the maximun 500W

 
this clearly implies that getting any effect from that bios only comes from some sort of silicon lottery (which in this context wouldn't only apply to the GPU itself obviously ) as it implies that not all our cards (though all being FTW3's) are built equal, regarless of the GPU binning (or lack thereof) itself




 
It all seems a bit disingenuous to me if that is the answer.  I had another 2 pin card that ran 390w all day long, and my 3 pin ftw3 ultra wont run above that unless I use the power slider to 107% to hit maybe a sustained 415.  It will never hit 100% TDP, and the advertised spec of up to 450w is a fairy tale (bench scores reflect this lack of power draw, as does the power meter on my ax1600i).
 
I'm not opposed to troubleshooting this thing - and working with EVGA to find a solution - however calling this a silicon lottery - as quoted above is bogus (for shunting reasons).
 
 




The generic reply was more instulting.
There is a clear problem and they treat us like idiots after purchsing their highest tier product. 
Kylearan
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA 2020/11/29 09:50:37 (permalink)
slovak_killer
Kylearan
I think I figured out what's going on with the power balancing on these cards.  
This may have absolutely nothing to do with the current Bios issues, or perhaps it does have something to do with it, but here is what I can work out so far.
 
The Current Sense chip controls all of the power regulation between the wattage rails, including from itself.  This is called PP Source Input Power, where PP stands for Power Plane.  It is NOT "PCI Express Slot power".
 
If any power rail has a higher resistance shunt value than the Current Sense shunt, that power rail, or the one with the highest resistance, will control via its shunt, the total amount of TDP allowed with respect to that power rail's absolute maximum limit.  The easiest example here is PCI Express.  Founder's Edition cards have an absolute 79.9W cap on the PCIE slot.  eVGA seems to either have 75W or 85W cap.  The FE card will never use a value this high---at 400W TDP and 114% power limit (from 350W To 400W), the PCIE slot is around 65 to 68W.  But it's master power limit is 79W.
If the Slot has the highest shunt resistance, the total board power cap will be reached when PCIE Slot reaches its maximum allowed Vbios value.  For example, on a FE, you would probably see 160W/160W/80W in GPU-Z (this may vary depending on how the 8 pins are shunted, but you get the picture).  A 15 mOhm stacked shunt (3.75 mOhms total shunt resistance) on PCIE slot and 10 mOhms stacked shunt on all other shunts, will allow you 466 watts of GPU power before PCIE Slot reaches 79 watts, in this case.
 
The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts.  At 400W TDP, it will never pull this limit.
 
MVDDC (FBVDD) is unknown.
 
The Current Sense shunt itself is a special case.  It seems that if the current sensing shunt is a higher resistance than all other shunts (or at least the 8 pin plugs and PCIE Slot shunts!), the resistance of the Current Sense resistor is used for "Normalized TDP" and the 8 pins and PCIE slot power draw is completely rearranged, by having the 8 pin#1 rise up to its max internal TDP value (170W on FE cards), which will be the limiting factor, and reducing the power draw of 8 pin#2 and PCIE slot, in such a way so that 8 pin#1 + 8 pin#2 + PCIE will total up to 350 watts.  If your power TDP slider is at 114%, and you are pulling 400W Total Board Power in GPU-Z (even if you're drawing more via shunt mods), the "Normalized" TDP will show up as 114%, but base TDP will be around 100%.  A shunt modded card will still of course draw more power, but will be limited in TDP To the current sense shunt (Normalized TDP!) rather than the TDP of the 8 pin power plugs and PCIE slot (regular TDP!!!)
 
If the current sense shunt is equal to or lower in resistance than the 8 pins, then the 8 pins will report balanced power, and any shunt with higher resistance will get recalculated to its max limit when total board power TDP gets reached.  For example if PCIE Slot and Current Sense have a 3.5 mOhm total shunt resistance and Chip Power has a 3.75 mOhm total shunt resistance, Chip power will reach 300 watts and signal power limit throttling when total board power approaches 400 Watts in GPU-Z.
 
Obviously this makes full sense if shunt modding and trying to use shunts with slightly different resistances and wondering why your TDP% and Normalized % are not matching, but with a stock board with the normal 5 mOhm shunts, everything should be perfectly in sync and balanced.
 
Tl;dr: i have absolutely no idea what's going on with the eVGA boards and the PCIE Slot (or MVDDC) or any other limits going on.


Your theory has multiple loop holes, "The Chip Master power limit is 300 watts" this statement is not true as I was able to draw multiple times above 300W.
Also this power balancing doesnt make much sense as if u input -64mhz offset on core clock, nothing in terms of power delivery specs changes but your power draw will shoot up significantly as the card is now boosting to 1043mV. I had no problem sustaining around 470-480W.




This is tested on the Founder's Edition.  You guys need to test this on the eVGA for yourselves with your own shunt mods.  Of course chip limit should exceed 300W since your TDP can go up to 500W, unlike FE which is capped at 400W.
 
Every power rail has its own internal power limit not directly related to TDP.  TDP is simply all the 8 pins and slot power combined.  TDP "Normalized" will calibrate around this if any of the power rails goes out of phase with TDP%.  There is hardly any discussion about TDP Normalized, and even Martin at HWinfo64 doesn't know much about it, except that NVAPI uses it somehow. 
 
TDP% is the only one everyone is aware of and PCIE Slot limit is less well known.  There is also MVDDC limit, Current Sense source, GPU Chip Limit, and PCIE 8 pin limit.
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