Carmen813
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 03:52:34
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It does seem to draw a bit more than my old one. The 490 wasn't sustained but my old one peaked around 475w. It averaged out to around 450 in first level of quake 2 rtx. I saw 113% tdp, old card rarely broke 107
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xgiovio
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 03:56:36
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Can anyone explain this behaviour on the 3090?
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage
What I see is, higher the fps, lower is the clock. For this reason we see also some 3080 being faster than 3090 on full hd or lower workloads.
Is it something about the ampere architecture? Bandwidth? Cpu bound?
Thank you
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xgiovio
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 04:14:37
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I understood. It's the memory controller load or fb usage in msi ab.
Higher fps saturate the memory controller and so more power absoption
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage - memory load 95%
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage - memory load 50%
Is memory controller the maximum speed the bus can reach or does it depend on memory frequency?
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Carmen813
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 04:15:07
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xgiovio
Can anyone explain this behaviour on the 3090?
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage
What I see is, higher the fps, lower is the clock. For this reason we see also some 3080 being faster than 3090 on full hd or lower workloads.
Is it something about the ampere architecture? Bandwidth? Cpu bound?
Thank you
8x msaa is going to drop your fps quite significantly compared to no AA. Need a like for like comparison to be useful.
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ninshoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 04:46:36
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Carmen813
xgiovio
Can anyone explain this behaviour on the 3090?
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage
What I see is, higher the fps, lower is the clock. For this reason we see also some 3080 being faster than 3090 on full hd or lower workloads.
Is it something about the ampere architecture? Bandwidth? Cpu bound?
Thank you
8x msaa is going to drop your fps quite significantly compared to no AA. Need a like for like comparison to be useful.
AA need more power so your gpu power limit...
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xgiovio
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 04:49:53
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ninshoo
Carmen813
xgiovio
Can anyone explain this behaviour on the 3090?
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage
What I see is, higher the fps, lower is the clock. For this reason we see also some 3080 being faster than 3090 on full hd or lower workloads.
Is it something about the ampere architecture? Bandwidth? Cpu bound?
Thank you
8x msaa is going to drop your fps quite significantly compared to no AA. Need a like for like comparison to be useful.
AA need more power so your gpu power limit...
wrong. the limitation was on on the memory controller. The card can't move bits in and out from vram to gpu faster so the memory controller become a bottleneck and cpu downclocks to be in sync with the memory controller. Wattage is however higher when the memory controller is a t full load comparing to full gpu clocks.
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 05:44:26
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Strix 3090 works great with 520W bios. I get 518 W to 525 W continuously in games and benchmark. It runs a few deg hotter though as a result.
Before I could lock it at 2130 Mhz and game, now 2160 and even 2175 is stable.
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matthewr87
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 05:58:43
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When I keep my X1 opened during benchmarking I consistently lose about 1000 graphics points in Timespy and around 300 in Port Royal. If I set my OC settings and then close X1 my scores increase. What gives?
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Zgapzy
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 06:24:08
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zogge
Strix 3090 works great with 520W bios. I get 518 W to 525 W continuously in games and benchmark. It runs a few deg hotter though as a result.
Before I could lock it at 2130 Mhz and game, now 2160 and even 2175 is stable.
This here is what people should be paying attention too. EVGa cards are looking highly defective.
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Carmen813
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 06:37:47
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xgiovio
ninshoo
Carmen813
xgiovio
Can anyone explain this behaviour on the 3090?
- Furmark qhd - full screen - no msaa - 250 fps - core 1500-1600mhz - 450w usage
- Furmark qhd - full screen -8x msaa - 70 fps - core 1900- 2000 mhz - 420w usage
What I see is, higher the fps, lower is the clock. For this reason we see also some 3080 being faster than 3090 on full hd or lower workloads.
Is it something about the ampere architecture? Bandwidth? Cpu bound?
Thank you
8x msaa is going to drop your fps quite significantly compared to no AA. Need a like for like comparison to be useful.
AA need more power so your gpu power limit...
wrong. the limitation was on on the memory controller. The card can't move bits in and out from vram to gpu faster so the memory controller become a bottleneck and cpu downclocks to be in sync with the memory controller. Wattage is however higher when the memory controller is a t full load comparing to full gpu clocks.
You may be overthinking this. MSAA is much more memory bandwidth and GPU intensive by its nature. The GPU will clock up to meet this demand, but likely still run at a much lower framerrate. It is very possible it would clock lower, and run at a higher fps, with MSAA off, especially if you have optimal power set in Nvidia control panel. At lower workloads or resolutions we become CPU bound.
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 06:53:15
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Zgapzy
This here is what people should be paying attention too.
EVGa cards are looking highly defective.
Exactly, that's why I posted it. The only issue is Pin 3 not reporting power, just as with 500W bios. My calculation of 518-525W is: Min(Pin 1 Power, Pin 2 Power) + Pin 1 Power + Pin 2 Power + PCI E power = 518-525W during my tests
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Den-ko
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 07:32:40
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zogge
Zgapzy
This here is what people should be paying attention too.
EVGa cards are looking highly defective.
Exactly, that's why I posted it. The only issue is Pin 3 not reporting power, just as with 500W bios.
My calculation of 518-525W is:
Min(Pin 1 Power, Pin 2 Power) + Pin 1 Power + Pin 2 Power + PCI E power = 518-525W during my tests
sounds like youre getting those numbers out of your ass, sorry but it is what it is.
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manatane
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 07:58:05
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Den-ko
zogge
Zgapzy
This here is what people should be paying attention too.
EVGa cards are looking highly defective.
Exactly, that's why I posted it. The only issue is Pin 3 not reporting power, just as with 500W bios.
My calculation of 518-525W is:
Min(Pin 1 Power, Pin 2 Power) + Pin 1 Power + Pin 2 Power + PCI E power = 518-525W during my tests
sounds like youre getting those numbers out of your ass, sorry but it is what it is.
Indeed, basing your calculation on reading that are basically themselves buggy AF (if they weren't you'd see the proper board total power draw as gpu-z doesn't get it from doing math) is merely a guesstimate of your power draw ... Not saying you're not getting a good use of the bios here, but please don't advance numbers like they were measured consumption when they are merely guesstimates, doesn't really help making our point in the end of the day ...
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zogge
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 08:04:13
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Okay, please propose me a more rigid measuring procedure then ? Shall I measure idle vs full load from power outlet on a benchmark ? Then CPU will contribute to that power consumption. Or shall I do power board draw + 150 ? Is that more accurate in your view ?
post edited by zogge - 2020/12/03 08:13:41
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manatane
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 08:47:16
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zogge
Okay, please propose me a more rigid measuring procedure then ? Shall I measure idle vs full load from power outlet on a benchmark ? Then CPU will contribute to that power consumption. Or shall I do power board draw + 150 ? Is that more accurate in your view ?
We would indeed need a proper measurement protocol and someone with the hardware and knowledge to conduct those tests ... Measurement from the wall with a comparison with standard bios to get a baseline based on gpu-z / cpu-z number and difference with measured at the wall would indeed give a tad more reasonably accurate idea (tho it still wouldn't be "proper measured numbers" as there would still be a few variables like difference in efficiency of your PSU at different consumption levels or accuracy of your wall measurement if consumer grade "smart plug" ) Might also just prove your initial math to be good in the end (which would then give more proper backing to those assertions) This is just my 2 cent tho, i'm no electrical or electronics engineer ... somone will likely have better ideas for a proper measurement protocol
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robotbeatrally
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 10:58:55
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Also on Taiwan, Red lips, Same issues/behavior as everyone else. Can get it to pull more power, if I underclock it though. Clock speed averages actually stay about the same if I underclock it slightly just because it's a lot more stable, but the highs are a lot lower as well. Weird how variable my clock speed are at both default settings/bios and with power slider up on the 500w bios. My temps are in line if not a little cooler than most I've seen but the clock is all over the place. I feel like it really needs this extra power that some of us can't give it.
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Kylearan
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 12:02:01
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Wasn't there someone in this thread who shunted ONLY the PCIE slot shunt, and nothing else, and then got the full advertised power from the XOC Bios?
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drunknfoo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 13:48:13
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Kylearan
Wasn't there someone in this thread who shunted ONLY the PCIE slot shunt, and nothing else, and then got the full advertised power from the XOC Bios?
Likely they shunted the pcie slot and gained the draw due to the shunt in itself
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Mathieas
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 13:48:58
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Sorry for the repost, put this in 3080 by accident. What benchmark are folks using to see if they have a power issue? Should I see a constant 107% TDP? What is a reasonable deviation?
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5800x3D - Fclk@1800mhz Cooling: EKWB 360 AIOMother Board: X570 Asus Crosshair VIII FormulaGPU: 1x 4090 MSI SUPRIM Liquid XRAM: 2x 16GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo @3600mhz CL14 (B-Die) SSDs(NVME): 1X WD sn850x 4TB, SSDs(SATA): 1X Samsung 870 EVO 2TB, 1x Samsung 850 Pro 512GB, 1x Samsung 840 Pro 256GBSound: Creative Sound Blaster ZXR Case: Phantek P600SPSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 1000W T2Monitor(Main): Alienware AW3423DW (175hz QD-Oled)Monitor(2ndary): Asus VG259QR (165hz IPS) OS: Windows 10 pro 64bit
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joshjd93
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 14:24:54
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Anyone that has flashed the KP bios to their card. Is there any concern or problems doing so? I read that the fans don't work right, or do they just not read right? I don't want to install the new version of PX for it, I just want to try the bios out.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 14:30:27
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joshjd93
Anyone that has flashed the KP bios to their card. Is there any concern or problems doing so? I read that the fans don't work right, or do they just not read right? I don't want to install the new version of PX for it, I just want to try the bios out.
Apparently the latest PX1 will try and update the MCU firmware and fail (a good thing - that would likely brick the card). Other than that, it worked just the same as the XOC VBIOS on my Taiwan 3090 FTW3 Ultra that tops out at around 450W draw and is usually showing power as the limit from 400W up.
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joshjd93
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 14:35:37
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arestavo
joshjd93
Anyone that has flashed the KP bios to their card. Is there any concern or problems doing so? I read that the fans don't work right, or do they just not read right? I don't want to install the new version of PX for it, I just want to try the bios out.
Apparently the latest PX1 will try and update the MCU firmware and fail (a good thing - that would likely brick the card). Other than that, it worked just the same as the XOC VBIOS on my Taiwan 3090 FTW3 Ultra that tops out at around 450W draw and is usually showing power as the limit from 400W up.
Interesting thanks for the comment. I have my OC vbios kinda set aside for this kind of tinkering. I am experiencing similar issues as everyone else with the XOC vbios but I get ~470w of power draw where itll sometimes peak out around 500w depending on the benchmark. I was thinking about it but if it sounds like its the same song and dance I won't mess with it. I have a 2014 card
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vlcapata
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 15:53:45
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what is this china or taiwan card I keep seeing people post about?
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 16:16:55
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vlcapata
what is this china or taiwan card I keep seeing people post about?
Listed on the outer card box. Made in China, Made in Taiwan. The beginning part of the serial number which leads with 2012 apparently points to a Chinese plant origin, and 2014 apparently points to Taiwan manufacture. The vast (overwhelming) majority of Taiwan manufactured cards seem to top out on average power draw at 430 to 450W, while the Chinese manufactured cards (that we hear about) seem to be able to get to 480 to 510W. On the XOC VBIOS.
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tobincake1471
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 16:58:17
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arestavo
vlcapata
what is this china or taiwan card I keep seeing people post about?
Listed on the outer card box. Made in China, Made in Taiwan. The beginning part of the serial number which leads with 2012 apparently points to a Chinese plant origin, and 2014 apparently points to Taiwan manufacture. The vast (overwhelming) majority of Taiwan manufactured cards seem to top out on average power draw at 430 to 450W, while the Chinese manufactured cards (that we hear about) seem to be able to get to 480 to 510W. On the XOC VBIOS.
My 2014* SN 3090 FTW3 Ultra seems to top out at 491W during Time Spy, according to GPU-Z's Board Power Draw MAX value on the XOC VBIOS. What is regarded as the definitive and most reliable way to test (which tool, reading, etc)?
post edited by tobincake1471 - 2020/12/03 17:19:32
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superkyle1721
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 17:17:48
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The fact you hit over 440W is definitive
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devinishome
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 17:43:33
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I guess my only option is to wait and hope EVGA cares enough to make my +$300 card work as well as cheaper cards.
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 17:49:12
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tobincake1471
My 2014* SN 3090 FTW3 Ultra seems to top out at 491W during Time Spy, according to GPU-Z's Board Power Draw MAX value on the XOC VBIOS. What is regarded as the definitive and most reliable way to test (which tool, reading, etc)?
It's average power draw, not max. EDIT: or current power draw if you can't get the average without it dropping too much from the before/after benchmark readings. The folks with the chinese boards are able to get 480 to 510W average board power draw in tests like Port Royal, Time Spy Extreme, and games that put a high load on the card at higher resolutions (Doom Eternal from EVGA's Jacob Freeman himself). There is one outlier that does not from what I've seen in this thread. The folks with the taiwan manufactured boards are able to get anywhere from 400 to 450W average board power draw in those same tests or games / resolutions. There are two outliers that are able to get 480W+ average that I've seen in this thread. Using the 500W XOC VBIOS, of course. And typically monitored with GPU-Z.
post edited by arestavo - 2020/12/03 18:10:27
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chase10784
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 18:10:00
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I just got an email stating the hydro Copper has been delayed, anyone think this power draw issue might be part of the reason?
post edited by chase10784 - 2020/12/03 18:12:40
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arestavo
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Re: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 FTW3 XOC BIOS BETA
2020/12/03 18:12:28
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chase10784
I just got an email stating the hydro Copper has been delayed, anyone think this might be part of the reason?
More likely a problem with the block. But I could be wrong.
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