fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/13 17:45:33
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i think that the thermal throttling on these chips is very chip to chip dependent. my last sc did not like anything over 60. this ssc+ does fine right on up to any temp it seems. this can all be explained many ways tho. maybe the old 4+2 voltage rails had leakage at lower temps and the 6+2 just handles it better by distributing the voltage load.
the only thing that stops that drop is +40mv on the core voltage for me.
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chrcoluk
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 07:55:31
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Premise
aronh17
Premise
@Levifig - Great start to you're youtube channel. I liked the vids! You're right about the gamble with step-up. I'll be a little disappointed on Wednesday when I get my FTW+ if it's a worse overclocker then the FTW that I had, with an ASIC of 68.4%. It wouldn't even maintain it's factory boost clock without a modded bios. It needed around another 10 watts. Adding voltage was useless because of the power limit. I did experiment with high power and voltage, but decided that since I have no idea how hot the vrms were to not use it with such an extreme increase of power for long periods of time. Teemeister does have a good point. You're 59.2% ASIC card while not being the greatest is a much better overclocker than mine was. The best stable overclock I could get was 1455mhz at 1.212v. And I questioned the stability lol.
That's exactly the clockspeed my old FTW was running on overclock, and it had an ASIC of 72.8% but I highly doubt that my new FTW+ coming in on Monday will be slower. Even with a lower ASIC it should still do better. It was all about the lack of power draw and 4+2 phase power setup. Did you get your FTW+ yet or did you mean next Wednesday?
I got in on Wednesday and have been messing around with it for the last couple days. With no additional OC (1367 boost clock) it scores 12300-12400 graphics in firestrike! That's much better than my FTW that would score 11900 at it's stock 1392.2 clock.
The one small annoyance for me is that unlike the FTW, the FTW+ will throttle at 60-65C, lowering the voltage from 1.225v to 1.2v as well as one boost bin. I confirmed this by running the fans at 100%, keeping the card right at 60C. It didn't throttle. Adding atleast +25mV, putting the voltage at 1.243v seems to override the temp throttle and it will stay at 1.243 with the core temp around 67C.
The max stable OC I have so far is 1493mhz core and 7600mhz mem, run through multiple runs of firestrike and some CoD: AW campaign. This is without any voltage added so it mostly sits at 1481mhz at 1.2v. The ASIC is only 63.9%. At first when I looked at it I was a bit worried that it wouldn't OC and would be worse than my FTW.
One other thing I noticed. The FTW sagged a little bit in the PCI-E slot. This new FTW+ sits perfectly straight. I'm not sure if adding a backplate to the FTW is something that would have fixed that. Anyway, could go on, but I'll leave it at that 
cancelling my step-up, financial situation which jumped on me 2 days ago made this a complete no brainer now, 100 or so euros for the FTW+ I was struggling to justify anyway. Next time I upgrade be it 2-3 years down the line, EVGA I will think twice about buying after us early adopters were guinea pigs for a substandard card. In inquisitions just now I noticed if the game is demanding enough to need the boost clocks, there is not enough power for those clocks to be sustained in high utilisation (it had 70% power for just uinder 40% utilisation). So the issue is not just in benchmarks, the normal FTW cannot fully utilise its marketed speeds. (at 1367 same issue with power). Of course its still an excellent card overall, so I dont feel that bad about it, just dissapointed with EVGA. Regarding your post it seems EVGA cut one too many corners on the power delivery, to get a higher score at lower clocks must mean some throttling had occured on the original FTW.
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Premise
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 10:35:48
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chrcoluk
Premise
aronh17
Premise
@Levifig - Great start to you're youtube channel. I liked the vids! You're right about the gamble with step-up. I'll be a little disappointed on Wednesday when I get my FTW+ if it's a worse overclocker then the FTW that I had, with an ASIC of 68.4%. It wouldn't even maintain it's factory boost clock without a modded bios. It needed around another 10 watts. Adding voltage was useless because of the power limit. I did experiment with high power and voltage, but decided that since I have no idea how hot the vrms were to not use it with such an extreme increase of power for long periods of time. Teemeister does have a good point. You're 59.2% ASIC card while not being the greatest is a much better overclocker than mine was. The best stable overclock I could get was 1455mhz at 1.212v. And I questioned the stability lol.
That's exactly the clockspeed my old FTW was running on overclock, and it had an ASIC of 72.8% but I highly doubt that my new FTW+ coming in on Monday will be slower. Even with a lower ASIC it should still do better. It was all about the lack of power draw and 4+2 phase power setup. Did you get your FTW+ yet or did you mean next Wednesday?
I got in on Wednesday and have been messing around with it for the last couple days. With no additional OC (1367 boost clock) it scores 12300-12400 graphics in firestrike! That's much better than my FTW that would score 11900 at it's stock 1392.2 clock.
The one small annoyance for me is that unlike the FTW, the FTW+ will throttle at 60-65C, lowering the voltage from 1.225v to 1.2v as well as one boost bin. I confirmed this by running the fans at 100%, keeping the card right at 60C. It didn't throttle. Adding atleast +25mV, putting the voltage at 1.243v seems to override the temp throttle and it will stay at 1.243 with the core temp around 67C.
The max stable OC I have so far is 1493mhz core and 7600mhz mem, run through multiple runs of firestrike and some CoD: AW campaign. This is without any voltage added so it mostly sits at 1481mhz at 1.2v. The ASIC is only 63.9%. At first when I looked at it I was a bit worried that it wouldn't OC and would be worse than my FTW.
One other thing I noticed. The FTW sagged a little bit in the PCI-E slot. This new FTW+ sits perfectly straight. I'm not sure if adding a backplate to the FTW is something that would have fixed that. Anyway, could go on, but I'll leave it at that
cancelling my step-up, financial situation which jumped on me 2 days ago made this a complete no brainer now, 100 or so euros for the FTW+ I was struggling to justify anyway.
Next time I upgrade be it 2-3 years down the line, EVGA I will think twice about buying after us early adopters were guinea pigs for a substandard card.
In inquisitions just now I noticed if the game is demanding enough to need the boost clocks, there is not enough power for those clocks to be sustained in high utilisation (it had 70% power for just uinder 40% utilisation). So the issue is not just in benchmarks, the normal FTW cannot fully utilise its marketed speeds. (at 1367 same issue with power).
Of course its still an excellent card overall, so I dont feel that bad about it, just dissapointed with EVGA.
Regarding your post it seems EVGA cut one too many corners on the power delivery, to get a higher score at lower clocks must mean some throttling had occured on the original FTW.
Yeah 170 watts or even 187 is nowhere near enough. If you haven't set the power slider to 110% in something like afterburner that will help a lot, but it'll still most likely throttle. My FTW+ can use up to 220-225 at times, with increases to core/mem frequency. Also, I had forgotten, but yup the FTW definitely throttled when it got 11900 in firestrike. It's an easy fix though to edit the bios and increase the TDP limit to around 210w which will likely be enough to stay at the stock OC.
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chrcoluk
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 12:40:08
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I am not that confident in changing the bios, for now I am keeping as is but if games suffer I will mod the bios.
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 14:36:27
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I bet they cut down the power limit just so they would not run into issues with the 4+2 power phase setup.
I really do believe that the whole original lineup all the way to the ftw should never had been released. this is arguably the second fastest GPU on the market today and to deliver it without the current acx 2.0+ cooler and 6+2 power phase is really just a manipulation of a loyal evga user base. when you pay $400+ dollars after tax and everything and you buy from evga I would associate that with what would never be considered an inferior product (not the very best but never a purchase i would regret). unfortunately when chatting with other forum mods at places like toms hw the evga first series of cards are not considered recommendable. It is sad and below evga standards.
On the other hand after paying s&h twice at $30+ I am now in ownership of a ssc+ so I now have no real complaints with the GPU after the step-up. I am a little disappointed in evga this round. I have never owned a non evga branded card. I use MSI for the AMD products and their same price offering was much better.
sorry for the rant
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 14:38:33
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chrcoluk
I am not that confident in changing the bios, for now I am keeping as is but if games suffer I will mod the bios.
how much is it for you to just go to the ssc+, it is the same card just no backplate and backplates are really more for aesthetics and support than anything else. just putting this out there as the 3xxx cards are such a jump in quality.
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Teemeister
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 15:26:07
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fkrIII
chrcoluk
I am not that confident in changing the bios, for now I am keeping as is but if games suffer I will mod the bios.
how much is it for you to just go to the ssc+, it is the same card just no backplate and backplates are really more for aesthetics and support than anything else. just putting this out there as the 3xxx cards are such a jump in quality.
It's €20 less. But prices have gone up significantly due to the weak Euro. So he would still have to pay about €80. I could step up from my SC to the SSC+ basically for free (had to pay for shipping only).
EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC (3975) - EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 - EVGA e-GeForce 8800GTX 768MB (collecting dust) - BFG GeForce GTX 285
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chrcoluk
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 16:35:54
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fkrIII
chrcoluk
I am not that confident in changing the bios, for now I am keeping as is but if games suffer I will mod the bios.
how much is it for you to just go to the ssc+, it is the same card just no backplate and backplates are really more for aesthetics and support than anything else. just putting this out there as the 3xxx cards are such a jump in quality.
pretty much the same, its 5 euros fee, rest is shipping. So shipping both ways using royal mail and only 250gbp insurance is about 50 euros. Interesting watching the clocks and power % and utilisation whilst running around in inquisitions, only when the clock is below 950mhz does the power % exceed the usage %, at 1100mhz, the usage % slightly exceeds the power %. I dont know how evga managed to mess up, did they over trust nvidia's claims at super low power demands without testing? or did someone think well the lower retail price meant they could skimp?
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gioiswn
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 18:26:57
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I just want to figure out who sells a waterblock for the newer SSC? Going with a new z97 mobo and case and wanted to modify my H220 to cool my graphics card too. Once I get some extra dough I will look into getting a second SSC. :)
BitFenix Prodigy Artic White - Intel i5-4670K @ 3.8 GHz - ASRock Z87E-ITX - G-Skillz Sniper 2133MHz 8 GB RAM - ADATA SX9000 256 GB SSD - EVGA 970 SSC - CoolerMaster V750M PSU - Swiftech H220 AIO Water Cooler - Win 8.1 Logitech Internet 350 Keyboard - Logitech G3 Gaming Mouse w/ custom mouse pad - Sennheiser PC 350 Special Edition - Asus VG248QE 144Hz Gaming Monitor
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 22:12:50
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chrcoluk
fkrIII
chrcoluk
I am not that confident in changing the bios, for now I am keeping as is but if games suffer I will mod the bios.
how much is it for you to just go to the ssc+, it is the same card just no backplate and backplates are really more for aesthetics and support than anything else. just putting this out there as the 3xxx cards are such a jump in quality.
pretty much the same, its 5 euros fee, rest is shipping. So shipping both ways using royal mail and only 250gbp insurance is about 50 euros.
Interesting watching the clocks and power % and utilisation whilst running around in inquisitions, only when the clock is below 950mhz does the power % exceed the usage %, at 1100mhz, the usage % slightly exceeds the power %.
I dont know how evga managed to mess up, did they over trust nvidia's claims at super low power demands without testing? or did someone think well the lower retail price meant they could skimp?
I can only imagine that you are correct about underestimating the power needs of this card. In the end it just kinda sucks really. If you did want to get another card you could always sell yours and pick up a MSI gaming 970. I do not know how it works in the eu but in the states MSI does there warranty strictly based on the manufacturing date on the product code sticker on the back. I have bought multiple used MSI cards and RMA'd them without any purchase receipt. they just ask for the product code then they approve. This could be a cheap way of exchanging a card if you wanted. I do not like recommending other peoples cards on the evga site but when there is no better option I kinda have to.
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chrcoluk
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/15 23:55:00
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is it reasonable to now take power % as the effective utilisation? since utilisation now cannot hit 100% without been at very low clocks.
inquisition with msaa 4x (mfaa enabled) is pushing my card but without FPS slowdown :) I am in some areas in high 90s on power load :) (with 110 set as cap).
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 03:08:55
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chrcoluk
is it reasonable to now take power % as the effective utilisation? since utilisation now cannot hit 100% without been at very low clocks.
inquisition with msaa 4x (mfaa enabled) is pushing my card but without FPS slowdown :) I am in some areas in high 90s on power load :) (with 110 set as cap).
it is on the original series of evga cards as the power limit is usually the only true limit on the card. if you move to a ssc+ then no it is not. I am running +40v on the core and I still do not get 100% power utilization, and I have the cap set at 115%power. my original sc was a great card but some games just drew to much power and would crash the card and with the ssc+ i only crash when my clocks are to high, this is the way it is supposed to be.
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rjohnson11
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 03:20:55
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fkrIII
chrcoluk
is it reasonable to now take power % as the effective utilisation? since utilisation now cannot hit 100% without been at very low clocks.
inquisition with msaa 4x (mfaa enabled) is pushing my card but without FPS slowdown :) I am in some areas in high 90s on power load :) (with 110 set as cap).
it is on the original series of evga cards as the power limit is usually the only true limit on the card. if you move to a ssc+ then no it is not. I am running +40v on the core and I still do not get 100% power utilization, and I have the cap set at 115%power.
my original sc was a great card but some games just drew to much power and would crash the card and with the ssc+ i only crash when my clocks are to high, this is the way it is supposed to be.
I have two SSC cards in SLI and these perform very well with excellent power regulation
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Teemeister
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 05:48:27
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chrcoluk
is it reasonable to now take power % as the effective utilisation? since utilisation now cannot hit 100% without been at very low clocks.
inquisition with msaa 4x (mfaa enabled) is pushing my card but without FPS slowdown :) I am in some areas in high 90s on power load :) (with 110 set as cap).
Furry E v2 (OC Scanner X) for instance separates the wheat from the chaff. On this benchmark the new SSC+ and FTW+ will gladly take all the power you are willing to feed them  My SSC+ is constantly drawing 115% on this benchmark and it puts out a lot of heat (even without additional voltage). You might want to give it a shot and see how far you can push it.
EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC (3975) - EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 - EVGA e-GeForce 8800GTX 768MB (collecting dust) - BFG GeForce GTX 285
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aronh17
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 09:58:36
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My FTW+ has an ASIC of 60.4% and while that is low I bumped it up 100 MHz right away and no issues. 115 MHz was still stable in Heaven but 130 MHz crashed it so I'll have to buff the voltage. TDP barely scraped 80% without being increased and my old FTW only hit 1450 MHz with an overclock and it had a 72.8% ASIC. Seems LeviFig got a bad card in general because mine is already topping my old FTW. I will do more testing and overclocking because I do believe it will hit 1500 MHz no problem. I'd also like to add that it has very minuscule coil whine, barely hearable. A big plus there too. My old 660 had it a bit and my FTW had it quite a bit as well but this one is silent. As long as it hits 1500 MHz, I'd say it was worth it. Backplate, little to no coil whine, clocking higher, MMCP cooler as well. All I lost was ASIC quality, so far so good though! Edit: Also, my GPU isn't even hitting it's advertised speeds. So if I really wanted to I could RMA this GPU. I'm going to wait and see.
post edited by aronh17 - 2015/02/16 12:06:51
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 14:45:04
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rjohnson11
fkrIII
chrcoluk
is it reasonable to now take power % as the effective utilisation? since utilisation now cannot hit 100% without been at very low clocks.
inquisition with msaa 4x (mfaa enabled) is pushing my card but without FPS slowdown :) I am in some areas in high 90s on power load :) (with 110 set as cap).
it is on the original series of evga cards as the power limit is usually the only true limit on the card. if you move to a ssc+ then no it is not. I am running +40v on the core and I still do not get 100% power utilization, and I have the cap set at 115%power.
my original sc was a great card but some games just drew to much power and would crash the card and with the ssc+ i only crash when my clocks are to high, this is the way it is supposed to be.
I have two SSC cards in SLI and these perform very well with excellent power regulation
are they overclocked at all and do you hit boost clocks of over 1450. with the correct power delivery all of these cards are capable of 1450MHz. The old cards are still powerful cards but the 4+2 power phase and the gimped power and voltage limit really hurts the early cards, not to mention if you have the original acx cooler.
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chrcoluk
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 15:17:02
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by the way got the cardboard box delivered today I had ordered to ship it, unreal the thing comes flatpacked.
So the now 50 euro'ish cost no decent GPU for probably 2 weeks. (just when I got into DA:I again). I need to think.
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/16 16:49:15
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chrcoluk
by the way got the cardboard box delivered today I had ordered to ship it, unreal the thing comes flatpacked.
So the now 50 euro'ish cost no decent GPU for probably 2 weeks. (just when I got into DA:I again). I need to think.
I felt the same way before I sent mine in. It always sucks to spend so much money on what is really just a toy but then to not get to play with it sucks. much happier with the ssc+ now.
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 11:36:15
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hey all so I chatted with amazon today and I got a 20% refund. I get to keep my card and I am now actually happy about the purchase. I love amazon. I got $75 back.
my chat started with:
there is a recently found error in advertising of the gtx970. I have read that you are following in neweggs practice of refunding 20% of the purchase price since this GPU is not as advertised
I am a prime member and I do spend allot on amazon so that may have helped but in the end I told them I could not send the card back because I need the card for professional work. amazon then said okay and the refund happened
I did not speak to a supervisor and the whole process has taken maybe 20 minutes
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ManBearPig
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 14:24:06
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Wow, makes me wish I had purchased my cards through Newegg or Amazon now instead of eVGA's store (don't see them giving 20% back). That would have been $150 back for me.
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 14:51:27
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zennacko
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 17:55:11
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Does the FTW+ come with Samsung memory or Hynix? (I've seen people overclock better with Samsung, don't know if it's a myth)
Also, what temps and clocks are you guys getting with this card? Is it worth the extra money versus a MSI card? (for the card itself, not the customer support or step-up from EVGA)
Last but not least, I saw that LeviFig got a bad card on the silicon lotto (nice videos btw), should I worry about this or this is very rare?
Sorry for asking the trillion questions but I'm SO outdated that my last graphics card was an EVGA 9800GT 1GB (that STILL runs current games!)
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jeffmd
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 18:05:07
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zennacko
I saw that LeviFig got a bad card on the silicon lotto (nice videos btw), should I worry about this or this is very rare?
This.. is my pet peeve. How in the world do you expect us to figure out an even remotely accurate lotto rate on good and bad cards? what even denotes a "bad lotto" ?
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zennacko
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 19:07:15
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jeffmd
zennacko
I saw that LeviFig got a bad card on the silicon lotto (nice videos btw), should I worry about this or this is very rare?
This.. is my pet peeve. How in the world do you expect us to figure out an even remotely accurate lotto rate on good and bad cards? what even denotes a "bad lotto" ?
I was just wondering that, from your personal experience with EVGA and the forums, you could tell whether getting a bad card is a very rare/almost impossible event, or if it does happen every now and then. By bad card I mean like the guy I mentioned: getting a card that can't even reach its advertised stock speeds, much less overclock.
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fkrIII
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 20:00:06
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I would say that it is quite rare and if it did occur I am sure evga would help you out in some way. nobody company is getting cherry picked GPU's so it is even across the board unless you shell out for a classified or kingpin edition. It is really rare to get a bad overclock and if we did I am sure there would be allot more fuss about it in the forums. the fact that we have only scene a few across all manufacturers is a good sign. I do not think that the ftw+ is really worth the extra cash as it is the exact same card as ssc+ but with a backplate. as far as are the new ssc+/ftw+ as good as the best MSI GPU's they are. just avoid everything below the ssc+ (Part Number: 04G-P4-3975-KR) http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=04G-P4-3975-KR everything else you need to know is in the link to compare products. and remember to get your 20% back if you bought from amazon or newegg
post edited by fkrIII - 2015/02/17 20:02:58
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zennacko
New Member
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/17 22:12:43
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fkrIII
and remember to get your 20% back if you bought from amazon or newegg
I'm still about to buy the video card so I don't know if I should try that...
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fkrIII
Superclocked Member
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/18 01:09:26
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zennacko
fkrIII
and remember to get your 20% back if you bought from amazon or newegg
I'm still about to buy the video card so I don't know if I should try that...
i do not think it will work now as the fault is widely known. i would think they would only take a refund. I have had my card for months now
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chrcoluk
Superclocked Member
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/18 09:16:00
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I got my card from scan uk, because they a small retailer they probably wont give me a rebate, I would have got from amazon but they didnt have it listed.
By the way the UK situation is interesting, by law anyone who purchased a 970 in the uk should be entitled to a full credit if they wish to return the card, retailers however are waiting for nvidia to give the go ahead, as they dont want to take the hit, but the law is what it is.
The ASA in the uk (advertising regulator), works on the basis that not what is correct by dictionary definition but what is correct by market expectations, so the customer buying a 4 gig card will expect it to work the same way as other 4 gig cards such as the 980 and the amd cards. So the ASA if asked to intervene would very likely rule against the retailers and nvidia.
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fkrIII
Superclocked Member
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/18 11:13:55
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if amazon over here in the states will give a complete refund of the card even 6 months later I am sure the uk amazon would do the same.
It was kinda funny when chatting with amazon. the person was like where did you find this out at and I told her that kitguru was the first place I read it but then I copy/pasted a google search which had around 20 sites referencing the same info.
after that she was just silent for about 5 minutes. then asked if I want to return the card or get a 20% credit.
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EK_Luc
EK Forum Support
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Re: EVGA GEFORCE GTX 970 SSC & FTW+
2015/02/23 06:58:51
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Hi everyone! I have a bad news for some of you. We previously had the 04G-P4-3975 970 SSC and the 04G-P4-3978 FTW+ as compatible GPU for the 970ACX Waterblock but with the detailed pictures of ericleeee30 we have to announce that those 2 GPU won't be compatible.  When we created the block, we weren't able to have detailed images of those new PCB from EVGA and our first visual information of them were from reviews of the card from JayzTwoCents. I'm really extremely sorry about this situation. We will update the CoolingConfigurator to remove those 2 models from the compatibility list. Thanks
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