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Drivers 376.09/.19/.33 still no fix for FaH [Edit: Fixed with Core21 v0.0.18]

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DutchForce
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2016/11/28 10:42:16 (permalink)
The new NVidia driver 376.09 WHQL released today still has no fix for FaH (Core21 WUs fail on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs).
So driver 373.06 WHQL is still the latest good working driver for FaH.
 
See NVidia forum post of Manuel Guzman:
Official 376.09 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (released 11/28/16)
 

villageidiot182 said:
Any Updates on Folding@Home?
------------------
 
ManuelGuzman:
We still have not resolved this issue.

 
 
EDIT:  Update December 5,
 
NVidia released new drivers 376.19 WHQL today, but still no fix for FaH.
See NVidia forum post of Manuel Guzman:
Official 376.19 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/5/16)
 

MammothJerk said:
Any update on the F@H WU problems?
-----------------------
 
ManuelGuzman:
No fix in this driver for that issue. It is one of our top priority bugs though.

 
See also this post of Manuel Guzman:
Official 376.19 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/5/16)
 

bb30994 said:
@Manuel: Do you have enough information to reproduce the F@H problems?
 
I do not see it listed as an Open Issue.
----------------------
 
ManuelGuzman:
Yes.  We just have not yet narrowed down the root cause.

 
EDIT-2:  Update December 14,
 
NVidia released new drivers 376.33 WHQL today, but no fix for FaH yet.
See NVidia forum post of Manuel Guzman:
Official 376.33 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/14/16)
 

silverpulser said:
Has the issue with Folding@home been addressed?
---------------------------------------
 
ManuelGuzman:
No. Changes in our R375 driver exposed an application bug with Folding@Home. We are trying to get an application side fix but in the meantime, our team is still trying to come up with a driver side workaround. This is close to being done but not yet complete. We'll likely post a hotfix driver as soon as a driver side workaround is available.

 
See also an update from NVidia posted by Scott:
Got word from NVIDIA and this issue they are working on.--UPDATED 12/14
 
scott@bjorn3d
12/14 Update

Hey Scott,

Our efforts to get a resolution out by 12/14 has run into some roadblocks. The change suggestion we made for OpenMM needs more tweaks and our driver side workaround is close to being done but not complete yet. We plan to post a hotfix driver to unblock the Folding@Home users as soon as we have a workaround to share (within the next few days).

We’ll keep you posted.

Regards,
Team NV

 
EDIT-3: 
Changed thread title to:  "Drivers 376.09/.19/.33 still no fix for FaH [Edit: Fixed with Core21 v0.0.18]"
NVidia first fixed this with the Hot Fix Driver 376.48 and later Stanford fixed it with the New Core21 v0.0.18.
post edited by DutchForce - 2017/02/16 09:19:11


 
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    drougnor
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 11:14:59 (permalink)
    I'm wondering if the better question to start asking is if they actually KNOW what the issue is . . .


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    HK-Steve
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 11:24:28 (permalink)
    So that is now the 4th update, and still broken.... Crazy

     


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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 12:01:03 (permalink)
    Just to let everyone know that I've spoken with NVIDIA. They are still aware of this and still investigating/working on it. Sorry but that is all the info I have at the moment.

    AMD Ryzen 9 7950X,  Corsair Mp700 Pro M.2, 64GB Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5  X670E Steel Legend, MSI RTX 4090 Associate Code: H5U80QBH6BH0AXF. I am NOT an employee of EVGA

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    Torell
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 12:27:47 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Just to let everyone know that I've spoken with NVIDIA. They are still aware of this and still investigating/working on it. Sorry but that is all the info I have at the moment.




    thanks for asking and keeping us in the loop



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    scott@bjorn3d
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 13:03:31 (permalink)
    It is freaking amazing how these guys can't find someone that knows how to write drivers!!  They are getting as bad as AMD.
     


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    Chris21010
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/28 15:12:29 (permalink)
    i blame bloatware. they cram too much crap into "drivers" nowadays and not simply work on creating a useful driver. its like installing off CD's back in the hay day where it would give you a ton of useless crap and not just the driver.


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    MrEnigma
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/29 05:57:20 (permalink)
    Chris21010
    i blame bloatware. they cram too much crap into "drivers" nowadays and not simply work on creating a useful driver. its like installing off CD's back in the hay day where it would give you a ton of useless crap and not just the driver.




    Agreed


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    drougnor
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    Re: Driver 376.09 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/11/29 07:53:51 (permalink)
    Either way, there's a distinct cut off that they can use as an A:B test - Drivers before this point worked, drivers after don't - What is the change that happened at that point and WHY is it breaking things? 

    I know Nvidia won't divulge the inner workings of their drivers to protect their IP, but at least a high level acknowledgement that they've at least narrowed it down that far and are trying to reconcile the change in a way that will let F@H use the hardware to it's fullest would be a great deal more info that 'We're working on it'.
    d


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    DutchForce
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 09:59:45 (permalink)
    NVidia released new drivers 376.19 WHQL today, but still no fix for FaH.
    See NVidia forum post of Manuel Guzman:
    Official 376.19 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/5/16)
     

    MammothJerk said:
    Any update on the F@H WU problems?
    ------------------------
     
    ManuelGuzman:
    No fix in this driver for that issue. It is one of our top priority bugs though.

     
    Edit:
    See also this post of Manuel Guzman:
    Official 376.19 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/5/16)
     

    bb30994 said:
    @Manuel: Do you have enough information to reproduce the F@H problems?
     
    I do not see it listed as an Open Issue.
    ----------------------
     
    ManuelGuzman:
    Yes.  We just have not yet narrowed down the root cause.

    post edited by DutchForce - 2016/12/05 14:59:06


     
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    notfordman
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 10:24:08 (permalink)
    Thank you Dutch! I have a dream.....One day we can have a driver that folds and lets you play BF. 
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 10:47:24 (permalink)
    Now 6 Drivers later and we still have this issue.
    Maybe it is time for NVIDIA to announce they no longer going to support Stanford and their Folding @ Home Projects.
    Let's hope this does not happen over on the BOINC side as well. 
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2016/12/05 10:53:28

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    ipkha
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 16:17:10 (permalink)
    I wish they'd drop it in the open issues in the docs.


    #13
    Ali Man
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 20:14:13 (permalink)
    One thing I know about Nvidia is that if it's not an issue of the big boys, then it's not a issue at all.
     
    This tells a lot about a company which I think is really ****ty. I've actually had personal experience when I contacted Nvidia for an internship program and got no response. And after sending an email to the CEO, was it 'partially' acknowledged. Long story short, I bet that chinese dude has no clue about this.
     
     
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    DarKSeeD
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/05 23:51:03 (permalink)
    Hmm. I get BAD WORK UNIT only when using Core 21!  All other Core units worked properly.

    Gizas! what a mess  



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    scott@bjorn3d
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/06 02:41:15 (permalink)
    Well so far my contacts at NVIDIA has gotten no where on this issue.  I pulled my last try card this morning in a e-mail, will see if that helps.
    post edited by scott@bjorn3d - 2016/12/06 02:42:39


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    ipkha
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/06 08:01:13 (permalink)
    These kind of issues are hard to track down. Games with lousy optimization and weird graphics code are bad enough. But trying to fix cuda/OpenCL is even worse. The big money needs those code paths to be extremely robust, which is why the long wait is concerning. These are the critical code paths that the supercomputers built with Tesla and Quadro need to be error free and the fact that the most advanced core 21 units from F@h fail is concerning. It is also possible that this is a bug in the core 21 code as well, which makes this a PITA for any group of developers/bug hunters.


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/06 10:37:58 (permalink)
    ipkha
    These kind of issues are hard to track down. Games with lousy optimization and weird graphics code are bad enough. But trying to fix cuda/OpenCL is even worse. The big money needs those code paths to be extremely robust, which is why the long wait is concerning. These are the critical code paths that the supercomputers built with Tesla and Quadro need to be error free and the fact that the most advanced core 21 units from F@h fail is concerning. It is also possible that this is a bug in the core 21 code as well, which makes this a PITA for any group of developers/bug hunters.



    I would agree, But they are the ones who Broke It.
    It is not like Core 22 came out and having driver issues.
    Core 21 has been out to long for a driver issue to have started.
     

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    maveric191
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 03:17:26 (permalink)
    bcavnaugh
    It is not like Core 22 came out and having driver issues.
    Core 21 has been out to long for a driver issue to have started.



    It could be that the newer drivers are less tolerant to errors in the core 21 code that may have been there from day 1 and just haven't been caught up till now.

     

     
    #19
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 09:50:48 (permalink)
    maveric191
    bcavnaugh
    It is not like Core 22 came out and having driver issues.
    Core 21 has been out to long for a driver issue to have started.



    It could be that the newer drivers are less tolerant to errors in the core 21 code that may have been there from day 1 and just haven't been caught up till now.


    See Post Got word from NVIDIA and this issue they are working on. Back to Pointing Fingers at each other.

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    #20
    notfordman
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 10:20:23 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info Bcav! All I want for Christmas is a driver that works [for both]. 
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 10:22:13 (permalink)
    For me it is not an issues (ATM) as I do not play any game that needs a newer driver than 373.06

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    #22
    valkyriesII
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 11:08:50 (permalink)
    Yeah, it is pretty much like:
     
    FAH: Your driver broke our stuff.
    NV: No, we fixed some bugs and made some improvements. You were running into a bug and doing it wrong. You are trying utilize this bug as if it was a feature and need to fix it on your side.
    FAH: It worked in the previous version driver so you need to fix it.

     
    I see this quite frequent in software with finger pointing dragging out issues out longer than they need to be. Someone just needs to step up and fix the issue. At the end, it is the end user that suffers. Hopefully, it will be fixed soon.
    #23
    drougnor
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 12:35:03 (permalink)
    bcav - That older post isn't a response to the latest nVidia info we have. If it was something they'd released yesterday, then I'd see it that way.

    Honestly, NVidia is doing it the right way - As valkyriesII said, it looks like NVidia uncovered a previously hidden bug, quite accidentally most likely, and has give the information over and is also willing to provide a way for things to go back to the way they were for those of us who are folding. Kind of a 'No Harm, No Foul' patch.
     
    I'm now really curious to see if that NVidia optimization would improve PPD for us, if the OpenMM bug IS patched. . .
     
    d


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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 12:59:03 (permalink)
    drougnor Yes I do know, But is why is Folding @ Home Not saying anything at all.
    I will stop posting about the last 6 Drivers Failing and allow once more for them to correct the OpenMM bug.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2016/12/11 10:14:03

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    drougnor
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 13:58:51 (permalink)
    It's likely the same reason we have to pull teeth for any information at all - They're still just now starting to really focus on communications when that is something they should have tried to focus on over a decade ago. They have a LOT to learn and adapt to.
     
    d


    #26
    kougar
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 16:11:00 (permalink)
    valkyriesII
    Yeah, it is pretty much like:
     
    FAH: Your driver broke our stuff.
    NV: No, we fixed some bugs and made some improvements. You were running into a bug and doing it wrong. You are trying utilize this bug as if it was a feature and need to fix it on your side.
    FAH: It worked in the previous version driver so you need to fix it.

     
    I see this quite frequent in software with finger pointing dragging out issues out longer than they need to be. Someone just needs to step up and fix the issue. At the end, it is the end user that suffers. Hopefully, it will be fixed soon.




    Aye. Just ran into this whole mess two days ago, really hope they get it sorted out before everyone bails for the holidays. Six weeks is an absurd length of time for it to persist.


    Have water, will cool. 
    #27
    ipkha
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    Re: Drivers 376.09 and 376.19 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/10 20:18:32 (permalink)
    6 weeks isn't that much time in the grand scheme of things. I'd say it's about right for a bug hunt this size. The lack of empathy on the OPENMM coders part is about right for open-source projects like that. It's odd how all the boinc projects only use a few percent cpu load to synchronize their OpenCL and CUDA tasks while folding tasks use up the whole CPU core. I'd be surprised if Stanford fixes this by March of next year. It will now depend on OpenMM code being updated, followed by Folding core 21 being updated to use the fixed version, and the project updating their implementation to the latest core21 code. We just don't know how tight the integration actually is.


    #28
    DutchForce
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    Re: Drivers 376.09/.19/.33 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/14 11:20:44 (permalink)
    Just to keep this thread updated,
     
    NVidia released new drivers 376.33 WHQL today, but no fix for FaH yet.
    See NVidia forum post of Manuel Guzman:
    Official 376.33 Game Ready WHQL Display Driver Feedback Thread (Released 12/14/16)
     

    silverpulser said:
    Has the issue with Folding@home been addressed?
    ---------------------------------------
     
    ManuelGuzman:
    No. Changes in our R375 driver exposed an application bug with Folding@Home. We are trying to get an application side fix but in the meantime, our team is still trying to come up with a driver side workaround. This is close to being done but not yet complete. We'll likely post a hotfix driver as soon as a driver side workaround is available.

     
    See also an update from NVidia posted by Scott:
    Got word from NVIDIA and this issue they are working on.--UPDATED 12/14
     
    scott@bjorn3d
    12/14 Update

    Hey Scott,

    Our efforts to get a resolution out by 12/14 has run into some roadblocks. The change suggestion we made for OpenMM needs more tweaks and our driver side workaround is close to being done but not complete yet. We plan to post a hotfix driver to unblock the Folding@Home users as soon as we have a workaround to share (within the next few days).

    We’ll keep you posted.

    Regards,
    Team NV

    post edited by DutchForce - 2016/12/14 11:25:18


     
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    #29
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Drivers 376.09/.19/.33 still no fix for FaH (Core21 on Maxwell/Pascal GPUs). 2016/12/14 14:23:12 (permalink)
    I think that their are 4 or 5 Treads on this issue now.
    I'm getting confused now on what Thread I am on.

     
    post edited by bcavnaugh - 2016/12/14 14:25:43

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