Tylerslikewhoa
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If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
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DamonDelp
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/06 18:47:10
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Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
I disagree.
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Gomez99
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/06 18:53:13
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Shadow of mordor is crazy for asking for that amount of vram and it doesnt actually need it
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Tylerslikewhoa
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/06 18:53:18
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Ultra textures and 4k becoming cheaper will cripple 4 gb cards. You can already get 4k monitors for 500 dollars
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Tylerslikewhoa
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/06 18:55:05
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Shadows of mordor uses 6 gb of ram all the time at 4k with ultra textures. So it needs it
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yapchagi
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 01:50:06
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I just ran shadow of mordor benchmark on highest settings in 1080p and memory usage is 3.5 GB lol
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 04:07:36
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yapchagi I just ran shadow of mordor benchmark on highest settings in 1080p and memory usage is 3.5 GB lol
And he said 4k.... So, that is going to chew past 4gb like it is nothing when set to ultra. Hopefully that is just buffering a ton of info, and not necessary just to maintain 1080p. Was that with DSR as well?
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dingo_boy99
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 04:35:01
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Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
nm, I'm an idiot. it's time for sleep.
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Stephenk291
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 04:39:02
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Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
man where did you get all this insider info..I MUST KNOW!!! >.>
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MADOGRE
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 04:51:55
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Stop caring about broken console ports!
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nick779
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 04:55:25
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Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
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RiffyDivine
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 06:48:34
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nick779
Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
What is the difference between them? Sorry I never really had a good grasp on vram but always assumed more was better.
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Stephenk291
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 06:53:59
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RiffyDivine
nick779
Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
What is the difference between them? Sorry I never really had a good grasp on vram but always assumed more was better.
More is better, I'd certainly argue 2 is not enough anymore, but saying 4GB isn't is borderline stupidity (this isn't directed at anyone specifically). Shadows of Mordor is a poor example of a console port that just wasn't optimized correctly, just like Watchdogs.
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RiffyDivine
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:05:04
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Stephenk291
RiffyDivine
nick779
Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
What is the difference between them? Sorry I never really had a good grasp on vram but always assumed more was better.
More is better, I'd certainly argue 2 is not enough anymore, but saying 4GB isn't is borderline stupidity (this isn't directed at anyone specifically). Shadows of Mordor is a poor example of a console port that just wasn't optimized correctly, just like Watchdogs.
People keep bring that game up but I ran it on my 980s and didn't have any issues with the ultra settings on but I also wasn't trying to push 4k out of it, I think I was using 2k.
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Stephenk291
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:05:50
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people are bringing the game up because of the talk of it using 6GB of vram with the UHD textures.
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Brimy
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:13:10
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4GB of Vram is quiet sufficient at 1080p and you could have worked this out with CoD Ghosts, at Ultra i use 4096GB or there about. I am of the view that 4GB Vram cards is not what 2GB Vram cards were 2 years ago. Also, no matter what Vram GPU you buy 4GB, 6GB or 8GB the bloddy game developers are just going to make the game to consume the Vram when what they should be doing is making the hacker's job harder.....always messing up my kdr...
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RiffyDivine
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:20:42
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Brimy 4GB of Vram is quiet sufficient at 1080p and you could have worked this out with CoD Ghosts, at Ultra i use 4096GB or there about. I am of the view that 4GB Vram cards is not what 2GB Vram cards were 2 years ago. Also, no matter what Vram GPU you buy 4GB, 6GB or 8GB the bloddy game developers are just going to make the game to consume the Vram when what they should be doing is making the hacker's job harder.....always messing up my kdr...
Hey some of us work hard to write those hacks...I mean like other people, not me. Totally not me, stop looking at me like that. It's not like it's my fault it keeps getting easier, but to many kiddies in the mix now.
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blacksapphire08
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:27:36
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Well most people dont play at 4k resolution anyway. Let me ask you this, if not a card with 4Gb then what? The Titan cards have 6Gb and I doubt there are any cards available with more. Stop the witch hunt.
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RiffyDivine
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:29:29
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But the Titan cards were built to be used for working and not gaming and one on one beats the titan. Granted it's not a huge difference.
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Hillguy
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 07:38:24
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MADOGRE Stop caring about broken console ports!
+1 ....
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graz9
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 08:43:01
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Stephenk291
RiffyDivine
nick779
Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
What is the difference between them? Sorry I never really had a good grasp on vram but always assumed more was better.
More is better, I'd certainly argue 2 is not enough anymore, but saying 4GB isn't is borderline stupidity (this isn't directed at anyone specifically). Shadows of Mordor is a poor example of a console port that just wasn't optimized correctly, just like Watchdogs.
Shadows of Mordor is an excellent PC port which is extremely well optimised, not sure what game you are playing. Just because the devs included the uncompressed textures for those people with 6gb gram doesn't mean it isn't optimised. For those that have 6gb it's a deliberate bonus, for the rest of us it's hardly a massive downgrade. You can still run the game on Ultra textures with 4gb vram but there is swapping between vram and ram which causes a noticeable stutter on my 980. It certainly isn't running perfectly on ultra for anyone on 4gb.
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SirMaster
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 08:46:22
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I've yet to have a problem with my 680 with 2GB of RAM at 1080p.
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graz9
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 08:49:58
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SirMaster I've yet to have a problem with my 680 with 2GB of RAM at 1080p.
At a rock solid 60+ fps it is noticeable.
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Brimy
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 09:00:31
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SirMaster I've yet to have a problem with my 680 with 2GB of RAM at 1080p.
and you won't notice anything until you see the same game with more textures loaded and then you will say in your mind "i've been duped by a sneaky sales man" All high textured games takes advantage of more Vram and it is visibly noticeable even my sister whom is a app game player(them bigfish games) said to me some time back when i got my 760ftw "is that a new game, it looks better" this was coming from a 660Ti3GB version.
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SirMaster
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 09:09:37
(permalink)
A big problem I see with discussion about VRAM usage is this: You can't use third party tools to measure VRAM usage. Nobody but the game itself really knows how much memory it's using. It would have to have a special memory accounting function built in to add up how much memory it was actually currently using. The number you are seeing in programs like Precision and Afterburner only show how much VRAM the process has asked to allocate from the OS, NOT how much it is using or even how much it actually needs. Most software will adjust it's memory allocation based on how much total memory is available and by how much memory is currently unallocated. So lets say you run the same game on a 2GB card and also on a 6GB card. Precision and Afterburner will likely show very different VRAM "usages" between these 2 cards. The 2GB card may say 1.8GB of RAM is being "used", while the 6GB card may very well say that 3GB is being "used". In reality both games can be running perfectly smoothly with no VRAM swapping, because the game may at the current time only be using and only need 1.5GB of VRAM even though it has asked to allocate more than that. This just saves it from having to ask the OS to allocate more VRAM if it needs it later. The only real way to see how much memory a game actually needs would be to keep lowering your available VRAM and running a game benchmark to see at what point the game starts to VRAM swap.
post edited by SirMaster - 2014/10/07 09:12:37
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nick779
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 10:37:16
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RiffyDivine
nick779
Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Nobody cares about LOTR games and broken ass console ports like watch dogs. People like you will never understand the vram situation. Even a 970 that had 8gb of vram would never be able to utilize it because nvidia crippled it with a 256bit bus. Just look at the difference between the 2 and 4gb 770, its going to be the same story.
What is the difference between them? Sorry I never really had a good grasp on vram but always assumed more was better.
A 770 has such a small data bus that it cant fully utilize the extra video memory even in games like modded skyrim and watch dogs. In just about every benchmark (1080p, 1200p, 1440p, 1600p) a 4gb 770 was maybe a single frame faster than a 2gb model but $100 more expensive. Even Frame variance benches showed minimal differences. The 970 may be different, but nvidia still left it with a 256 bit bus for some reason when clearly if they make an 8gb model its going to be the same story as the 770 unless theres some magic that lets them utilize it somehow.
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dingo_boy99
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 12:34:30
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In defense of OP (devil's adovcate, if you will), it seems like all of the "4GB is enough" crowd is running 1080p or 2k, while the "4GB isn't enough" people are saying 4k is the reason it isn't enough. My question is this: is 4k delivery simply not optimised properly due to its youth in the industry, or is it simply that demanding on all resources? Without researching for now, it seems this is a similar argument when compared to the one years ago when going to HD (either 720 or 1080). Over the years, the video card manufacturers have added more memory to handle higher resolutions, so I don't see why "4GB isn't enough VRAM" is an invalid point, especially when considering higher resolutions are exactly the reason behind that statement. Optimised or not, if a PC game out there is 'suggesting' 6GB cards, it seems to me the manufacturers should have been ahead of that curve, not following it. That said, I have no intention of switching to 4k before 20nm comes out, anyway, so it won't affect me - but that doesn't mean it won't affect anyone.
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Brimy
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 13:19:35
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dingo_boy99 In defense of OP (devil's adovcate, if you will), it seems like all of the "4GB is enough" crowd is running 1080p or 2k, while the "4GB isn't enough" people are saying 4k is the reason it isn't enough. My question is this: is 4k delivery simply not optimised properly due to its youth in the industry, or is it simply that demanding on all resources? Without researching for now, it seems this is a similar argument when compared to the one years ago when going to HD (either 720 or 1080). Over the years, the video card manufacturers have added more memory to handle higher resolutions, so I don't see why "4GB isn't enough VRAM" is an invalid point, especially when considering higher resolutions are exactly the reason behind that statement. Optimised or not, if a PC game out there is 'suggesting' 6GB cards, it seems to me the manufacturers should have been ahead of that curve, not following it. That said, I have no intention of switching to 4k before 20nm comes out, anyway, so it won't affect me - but that doesn't mean it won't affect anyone.
(rambling incoming) I believe we have a few contributing factors and all of them can be boiled down to rushing to put out the newest thing and not taking time to refine the item. (back on track) I do believe 4k is not optimized properly and it is also very demanding on all resources. I also feel that DirectX9/11 according to which one you are using for which game, also needs to be refined for present and if possible, the future. To me 4K is a waste of money as almost at only 30hz and underutilized and 60hz. Then there is G-sync and free-sync....how do they impact on the Vram and 1080p, 1440p, and 4k. I too have no intention of switching to 4k but because i feel all the related technology still need refinement but i am looking into a 1440p with G-sync but that too is to me still in infantry stages, not to mention all the inconsistencies with the GPU's drivers for every PC's specifications.
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maxsul
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 14:19:21
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SirMaster A big problem I see with discussion about VRAM usage is this: You can't use third party tools to measure VRAM usage. Nobody but the game itself really knows how much memory it's using. It would have to have a special memory accounting function built in to add up how much memory it was actually currently using. The number you are seeing in programs like Precision and Afterburner only show how much VRAM the process has asked to allocate from the OS, NOT how much it is using or even how much it actually needs. Most software will adjust it's memory allocation based on how much total memory is available and by how much memory is currently unallocated. So lets say you run the same game on a 2GB card and also on a 6GB card. Precision and Afterburner will likely show very different VRAM "usages" between these 2 cards. The 2GB card may say 1.8GB of RAM is being "used", while the 6GB card may very well say that 3GB is being "used". In reality both games can be running perfectly smoothly with no VRAM swapping, because the game may at the current time only be using and only need 1.5GB of VRAM even though it has asked to allocate more than that. This just saves it from having to ask the OS to allocate more VRAM if it needs it later. The only real way to see how much memory a game actually needs would be to keep lowering your available VRAM and running a game benchmark to see at what point the game starts to VRAM swap.
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deviousconundrum
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Re: 4 gb of ram isn't enough
2014/10/07 18:02:02
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Tylerslikewhoa If you buy a gtx 970 or 980 now you will be kicking yourself due to ram issuses. It's already started with Shadows of mordor. 4 gb will only last you another 6 months 1 year tops. 6 and 8 gb cards are the norm within the next 6 months
Just because that game is horribly unoptimized, doesn't mean that that will be the current standard. In the future, maybe, but not in at least 5 or more years.
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