gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
I know this has been brought up several times, but I figured I'd start a new thread with an interesting example of the power limit issue we've seen with the 3090 Kingpin and apparently the FTW3. I'm running the 520W power limit and in most applications the card is throttling due to a power limit, but at a total board power draw much less than 520W. Here's a run of Time Spy with the card overclocked. I'm not using the Classified Tool for any of this. As you can see in the 'PerfCap Reason,' the power limit is being triggered (see the thick green bars), yet the max board power draw is 477.5 during the run. Now here's where things get ugly. Here's a quick run of AIDA64's GPGPU Single Precision benchmark. Again, notice the thick green bar during load. The power limit is triggered, yet the total board power draw is only 311.4W. Also, pay attention to GPU Chip, MVDDC, PWR_SRC, PCIe, and the three 8-pin power draw figures. They are all lower than the Time Spy results above, yet the power limit is still being triggered. Something seems to be fundamentally flawed with this card. Aside from the FTW3, do any of the other 3090s experience this issue? I really don't think it's as simple as MVDDC or GPU chip power limits being too low, as the GPGPU example shows that the power limit is being hit even when those values are very low. Can anyone else with a 3090 Kingpin run AIDA64 GPGPU with GPU-Z open to track their power draw? For reference, my card's SN starts with 2014 and was made it Taiwan. There was speculation that the 2012 China cards are somehow "better" than the Taiwan cards. I wonder if there's something inherently different between the Chinese and Taiwanese cards?
post edited by gridironcpj - 2021/02/03 05:50:44
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
emmett
SSC Member
- Total Posts : 514
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/03/30 23:42:22
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 2
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 05:53:14
(permalink)
I have seen this with my kingpin, and came across a fix that works for me, discovered on accident really. I have had this happen more than once, and this fixes it for me. Card seems to be power limiting well below max limit.. 1) completely power down PC. 2) Flip bios switch to one of the other Bios. 3) turn on PC let it boot fully into windows. 4) shut down again. 5) flip bios switch back to original position you had it on. 6) turn on go back into windows. 6) test power limit usage I am pretty sure it just shows proper limit without reinstalling driver, but if it still shows hitting limit try reinstalling driver after. EDIT: If reinstall driver use DDU
Currently using Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 EVGA 2080 TI KingPin Intel 9900K GSkill 3200 EVGA G2 1300
|
Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 49164
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/06/07 21:11:51
- Location: Texas, USA.
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 199
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 11:19:04
(permalink)
Nothing an xoc vbios can’t fix. 😊
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 12:12:40
(permalink)
I'll run the tests & post back when I'm at home with my results.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 14:06:04
(permalink)
Dabadger84 I'll run the tests & post back when I'm at home with my results.
That would be great. If you have AIDA64, try the GPGPU Benchmark and have GPU-Z's Sensor tab open. Is your card made in Taiwan or China? I'm genuinely curious if this power limit issue is specific to cards made in Taiwan as some people have speculated. Sajin Nothing an xoc vbios can’t fix. 😊
True, although that would void your warranty and I think it's only fair that the BIOS that ship with the card actually live up to their respective advertised power limits. The power limit should not be triggered over 200W below the actual power limit, as in my AIDA64 GPGPU example or over 40W below in my Time Spy example. It varies depending on the application. emmett I have seen this with my kingpin, and came across a fix that works for me, discovered on accident really. I have had this happen more than once, and this fixes it for me. Card seems to be power limiting well below max limit.. 1) completely power down PC. 2) Flip bios switch to one of the other Bios. 3) turn on PC let it boot fully into windows. 4) shut down again. 5) flip bios switch back to original position you had it on. 6) turn on go back into windows. 6) test power limit usage I am pretty sure it just shows proper limit without reinstalling driver, but if it still shows hitting limit try reinstalling driver after. EDIT: If reinstall driver use DDU
Unfortunately that doesn't resolve my issue. That seems more like a method to get the right BIOS to show up after adjusting the BIOS switch. I usually just power off my PC, clear CMOS, then reboot to have the correct BIOS show up after adjusting the BIOS switch.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
SoldierRBT
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 109
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/01/06 12:12:06
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 14:35:21
(permalink)
I’d recommend to use both dipswitches for NVVDD, and one for MSVVDD on the back of the card and re-run Time Spy. It should be able to hit 520W. You can also try RTX Quake 2 without OC and it’ll hit 520W on 4K.
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 14:49:29
(permalink)
SoldierRBT I’d recommend to use both dipswitches for NVVDD, and one for MSVVDD on the back of the card and re-run Time Spy. It should be able to hit 520W. You can also try RTX Quake 2 without OC and it’ll hit 520W on 4K.
I'll have to give that a try. Your 3090 is quite impressive from what I recall seeing in another thread. Would you mind running AIDA64's GPGPU test and reporting the power draw from GPU-Z and if the power limit is being triggered? I'm curious to see if this is an issue across all Kingpins. I'm using the GPGPU example because it's the most extreme case I've come across where the card exhibits power throttling at a power draw much lower than the actual power limit.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 20:39:07
(permalink)
I back, I attacc... wait wrong personality. I will run this in a minute & report back, forgot about it until just now when I saw a bookmark for the thread that I made to make sure I didn't forget to do this... irony.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 20:46:42
(permalink)
Look at that beautiful painting of a PerfCap reason chart. lol It does hit PWR as the reason with only 317W of draw during TWO of the tests in the full suite indeed, and as you can see in the Afterburner window, this is at STOCK with the power limit slider maxed. Most odd. But, I have also seen Power Limit pop up in the Afterburner overlay in games at as low as 430W draw sometimes, but it'll also keep going up, and doesn't really throttle performance from what I've seen, as much as the 3090 FTW3 Hybrid did... that thing would tank either voltage, clocks, or both, as soon as Power Limit was hit for more than a second or so. I'll re-run specifically the one you referenced & post the result shortly. Edit: I don't use AIDA64 that often, how do I run just the Precision one by itself?... wait, I think I got it.
post edited by Dabadger84 - 2021/02/03 20:49:03
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
Sajin
EVGA Forum Moderator
- Total Posts : 49164
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2010/06/07 21:11:51
- Location: Texas, USA.
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 199
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 20:47:45
(permalink)
gridironcpj The power limit should not be triggered over 200W below the actual power limit
True.
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 20:53:05
(permalink)
Here ya goo: So in my case, at stock GPU/Mem & voltage, I'm seeing PWR & VRel, at only 413W of draw according to GPUz... I didn't glance at the OLED to see what it was saying the power draw during it was, but I'd guess it was around 420-430W at the most. So it's not as bad as yours seems to be, but still weird.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 21:22:35
(permalink)
Dabadger84
Look at that beautiful painting of a PerfCap reason chart. lol It does hit PWR as the reason with only 317W of draw during TWO of the tests in the full suite indeed, and as you can see in the Afterburner window, this is at STOCK with the power limit slider maxed. Most odd. But, I have also seen Power Limit pop up in the Afterburner overlay in games at as low as 430W draw sometimes, but it'll also keep going up, and doesn't really throttle performance from what I've seen, as much as the 3090 FTW3 Hybrid did... that thing would tank either voltage, clocks, or both, as soon as Power Limit was hit for more than a second or so. I'll re-run specifically the one you referenced & post the result shortly. Edit: I don't use AIDA64 that often, how do I run just the Precision one by itself?... wait, I think I got it.
Thanks for running this. You're probably triggering the power limit at just over 300W in the Single Precision test (not the Julia one). Does your Kingpin say it was made in China or Taiwan? I'm just curious because people were speculating that the Taiwanese models were having issues. Mine was made in Taiwan. I wonder if there's any fix for this aside from breaking the card's warranty by flashing the XOC BIOS. The Time Spy run associated with the GPU-Z screenshot I posted above experienced throttling due to the power limit being hit, primarily in Graphics Test 2. So it is having an effect on performance, albeit a small one. Regardless, the power limit should not be triggered unless we are close to the actual 520W power limit and there really should be a warranty-proof fix for this moving forward. Also, if anyone with a 3090 non-Kingpin can run the same test, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm curious to see if this is an issue specific to the Kingpin and perhaps the FTW3.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 21:33:12
(permalink)
How do I check which place the card was made? I know it involves the serial but which means which? Post inception incoming: Looks like I'm matchin' ya on that one. And as for TimeSpy, I've seen that throttling one very GPU I've had from this generation, in clock speed reductions, regardless of overclock, on the 3080 FTW3 Ultra, 3090 FTW3 Hybrid & I'm pretty sure it occurs on the Kingpin as well, despite not actually being anywhere near the full "power limit". So it's definitely not just a Kingpin thing, at least not in the aspect of the TimeSpy behavior.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 21:41:07
(permalink)
Dabadger84 How do I check which place the card was made? I know it involves the serial but which means which? Post inception incoming:
Looks like I'm matchin' ya on that one. And as for TimeSpy, I've seen that throttling one very GPU I've had from this generation, in clock speed reductions, regardless of overclock, on the 3080 FTW3 Ultra, 3090 FTW3 Hybrid & I'm pretty sure it occurs on the Kingpin as well, despite not actually being anywhere near the full "power limit". So it's definitely not just a Kingpin thing, at least not in the aspect of the TimeSpy behavior.
It will say on the sticker that shows the serial number, which is on the backplate and also on the retail box of your card. If the Kingpin has this issue, it wouldn't surprise me if other EVGA 30 series cards do as well. A lot of people were having similar power limit issues with the 3090 FTW3. As for Time Spy, I expect some downclocking due to increasing temperatures during the test, but the behavior I saw was in-line with the power limit being hit (despite being 40W or more below 520W).
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
SoldierRBT
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 109
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/01/06 12:12:06
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/03 22:00:46
(permalink)
Here's my KPE with everything at stock 520W BIOS. There's a PWR limit when running single precision flops. Mine also made in Taiwan. Could this be an issue related to AIDA test? I don't have this PWR limit when running Port Royal at 1.025v 518W
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 01:38:12
(permalink)
SoldierRBT Here's my KPE with everything at stock 520W BIOS. There's a PWR limit when running single precision flops. Mine also made in Taiwan. Could this be an issue related to AIDA test? I don't have this PWR limit when running Port Royal at 1.025v 518W
Thanks, so yours is illustrating the same behavior in AIDA64 GPGPU. One way to determine if it's a BIOS-related issue is for someone with the XOC BIOS to run the benchmark as well, which should not be power limited. Either that or someone with a non-EVGA BIOS on their card. Is that Port Royal run with some of the dip switches activated? Perhaps this issue may have nothing to do with NVVDD and MSVVDD, which is why some people have been able to increase those with dip switches or Classified without triggering the power limit (unless they hit 520W of course). There must be something else resulting in the power limit being triggered at values much lower than 520W. I only used AIDA as an extreme example. There are plenty of games where I'm getting power limit throttling much lower than 520W, such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 4K.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 12:58:47
(permalink)
gridironcpj It will say on the sticker that shows the serial number, which is on the backplate and also on the retail box of your card. If the Kingpin has this issue, it wouldn't surprise me if other EVGA 30 series cards do as well. A lot of people were having similar power limit issues with the 3090 FTW3. As for Time Spy, I expect some downclocking due to increasing temperatures during the test, but the behavior I saw was in-line with the power limit being hit (despite being 40W or more below 520W).
Taiwan indeed for mine as well.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 13:13:54
(permalink)
TimeSpy also tickles PWR despite only ever getting up to about 480W on the OLED/473W in GPUz: Only in the second test though, and it brings down the clocks as a result during it, despite me having a voltage curve set to command 2160MHz @ 1062mV (which I'm testing and has been stable for a few hours of Cyberpunk previously), it only ever got up to 2130MHz at the most, and during GT2, it went as low as 2010MHz I think.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
crowie03
New Member
- Total Posts : 79
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2021/01/22 22:53:16
- Location: NSW
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 13:56:11
(permalink)
Does anyone have a kingpin 3090 made in China? Mine is made in Taiwan.
|
Chamidorix
New Member
- Total Posts : 36
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2020/09/24 05:24:12
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 15:05:21
(permalink)
MSVDD has its own individual power limit measured by one of the very tiny 5mOH shunts....... the Aida single precision benchmark is extremely cache heavy (i.e it pulls heavy power from msvdd rail), very few alus are being used on the top 2/3 of the chip (SMs) but all l3 cache on bottom 3rd is fully saturated, so you run into msvdd power limit at a very low overall board power draw. Solution is either XOC bios which hugely increases nvddd/msvdd power limits, or shunting the correct tiny 5MO resister. Efforts are underway to identify exactly what all 3 of the tiny resistors correspond to. But at the end of the day its looking like completely removing power limits in all situations is gonna be either XOC bios or stacking/replacing 9-10 resistors. Luckily it looks like NV driver doesn't do any throttling from VRM power stage current measurement, so its just shunt resistors.
post edited by Chamidorix - 2021/02/04 15:09:24
|
_Gir_
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 332
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2016/02/02 20:12:10
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 2
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 15:35:54
(permalink)
Could it be the test? How do other nvidia board partner 3090 cards behave on AIDA64?
|
emmett
SSC Member
- Total Posts : 514
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2008/03/30 23:42:22
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 2
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 15:42:53
(permalink)
It's the test. My kingpin does it also. I have seen it on 2 other non EVGA cards also.
Currently using Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 EVGA 2080 TI KingPin Intel 9900K GSkill 3200 EVGA G2 1300
|
SoldierRBT
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 109
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/01/06 12:12:06
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/04 17:28:54
(permalink)
gridironcpj
SoldierRBT Here's my KPE with everything at stock 520W BIOS. There's a PWR limit when running single precision flops. Mine also made in Taiwan. Could this be an issue related to AIDA test? I don't have this PWR limit when running Port Royal at 1.025v 518W
Thanks, so yours is illustrating the same behavior in AIDA64 GPGPU. One way to determine if it's a BIOS-related issue is for someone with the XOC BIOS to run the benchmark as well, which should not be power limited. Either that or someone with a non-EVGA BIOS on their card. Is that Port Royal run with some of the dip switches activated? Perhaps this issue may have nothing to do with NVVDD and MSVVDD, which is why some people have been able to increase those with dip switches or Classified without triggering the power limit (unless they hit 520W of course). There must be something else resulting in the power limit being triggered at values much lower than 520W. I only used AIDA as an extreme example. There are plenty of games where I'm getting power limit throttling much lower than 520W, such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 4K.
That Port Royal run was with classified tool settings. I use the dipswitches only for gaming to boost internal clocks a little bit and match requested clocks. I've been running Time Spy with stock settings, offset OC, OC with dipswitches and all of them triggered a PWR limit on the second graphics test with power draw being around 460W-470W. I'm not sure what can cause a PWR limit there. I also tried RTX Quake 2 and it would pull 500W+ no issue. Here's a Time Spy run with classified tool 520W 1.018v 2175MHz no PWR limit. EDIT: I've been doing more testing with just regular offset OC all slider max with the 520W BIOS. RTX Quake 2 seems to hit a PWR limit at 500W and Time Spy at 470W. Then, I tried using both dipswitches on for NVVDD and MSVVDD and now RTX Quake 2 hit a limit at 520W (524W peak recorded) and Time Spy 510W. I assume this PWR limit is related to internal clocks not being able to get enough voltage to keep them stable so GPU-Z records it as PWR Limit (This may also apply to 3090 FTW3 cards with 500W BIOS issue). This could be the reason why I don't get PWR limit until 520W when using classified tool because I supply enough NVVDD/MSSVVD voltage to keep internal clocks stable.
post edited by SoldierRBT - 2021/02/04 20:57:42
|
gridironcpj
iCX Member
- Total Posts : 387
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2013/01/13 02:00:46
- Location: CA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 1
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/05 17:04:00
(permalink)
Chamidorix MSVDD has its own individual power limit measured by one of the very tiny 5mOH shunts....... the Aida single precision benchmark is extremely cache heavy (i.e it pulls heavy power from msvdd rail), very few alus are being used on the top 2/3 of the chip (SMs) but all l3 cache on bottom 3rd is fully saturated, so you run into msvdd power limit at a very low overall board power draw. Solution is either XOC bios which hugely increases nvddd/msvdd power limits, or shunting the correct tiny 5MO resister. Efforts are underway to identify exactly what all 3 of the tiny resistors correspond to. But at the end of the day its looking like completely removing power limits in all situations is gonna be either XOC bios or stacking/replacing 9-10 resistors. Luckily it looks like NV driver doesn't do any throttling from VRM power stage current measurement, so its just shunt resistors.
That makes sense and we can't see the MSVDD power draw with GPU-Z and other monitoring software, correct? If I recall, the Kingpin has a very low MSVDD power limit compared to other custom AIB cards. If that's actually the case, then it would be nice if EVGA released non-XOC BIOS that have higher MSVDD power limits. I'd be curious to see if a Strix would even hit a power limit in AIDA's single precision test. SoldierRBT
gridironcpj
SoldierRBT Here's my KPE with everything at stock 520W BIOS. There's a PWR limit when running single precision flops. Mine also made in Taiwan. Could this be an issue related to AIDA test? I don't have this PWR limit when running Port Royal at 1.025v 518W
Thanks, so yours is illustrating the same behavior in AIDA64 GPGPU. One way to determine if it's a BIOS-related issue is for someone with the XOC BIOS to run the benchmark as well, which should not be power limited. Either that or someone with a non-EVGA BIOS on their card. Is that Port Royal run with some of the dip switches activated? Perhaps this issue may have nothing to do with NVVDD and MSVVDD, which is why some people have been able to increase those with dip switches or Classified without triggering the power limit (unless they hit 520W of course). There must be something else resulting in the power limit being triggered at values much lower than 520W. I only used AIDA as an extreme example. There are plenty of games where I'm getting power limit throttling much lower than 520W, such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 4K.
That Port Royal run was with classified tool settings. I use the dipswitches only for gaming to boost internal clocks a little bit and match requested clocks. I've been running Time Spy with stock settings, offset OC, OC with dipswitches and all of them triggered a PWR limit on the second graphics test with power draw being around 460W-470W. I'm not sure what can cause a PWR limit there. I also tried RTX Quake 2 and it would pull 500W+ no issue. Here's a Time Spy run with classified tool 520W 1.018v 2175MHz no PWR limit. EDIT: I've been doing more testing with just regular offset OC all slider max with the 520W BIOS. RTX Quake 2 seems to hit a PWR limit at 500W and Time Spy at 470W. Then, I tried using both dipswitches on for NVVDD and MSVVDD and now RTX Quake 2 hit a limit at 520W (524W peak recorded) and Time Spy 510W. I assume this PWR limit is related to internal clocks not being able to get enough voltage to keep them stable so GPU-Z records it as PWR Limit (This may also apply to 3090 FTW3 cards with 500W BIOS issue). This could be the reason why I don't get PWR limit until 520W when using classified tool because I supply enough NVVDD/MSSVVD voltage to keep internal clocks stable.
How far off are your effective clocks without using dip switches or Classified Tools? Based on how your curve looks, you must be dragging the point up at 1.018V and leaving the others untouched. When I use that method, my effective clocks are really low relative to the target clock. I would guess that increasing NVVDD and MSVVDD via dipswitches or Classified would close that gap. I usually just use the slider to shift the entire curve, then lock to the desired point on the curve. That usually keeps my effective clocks within 15MHz of target clocks.
GPU: RTX 3090 KINGPIN | CPU: R9 5950X 4.7GHz @ 1.21V | Memory: 32GB (2x16GB) 3733MT/s 14-14-14-28 1T | Mobo: Crosshair VIII Dark Hero | Storage: WD SN850 2TB & Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB| Primary Display: ROG PG27UQ 4K 144Hz HDR 1000 | Chassis: Phanteks Enthoo Elite | PSU: EVGA 1600 T2
|
SoldierRBT
Superclocked Member
- Total Posts : 109
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2011/01/06 12:12:06
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/05 17:27:21
(permalink)
gridironcpj How far off are your effective clocks without using dip switches or Classified Tools? Based on how your curve looks, you must be dragging the point up at 1.018V and leaving the others untouched. When I use that method, my effective clocks are really low relative to the target clock. I would guess that increasing NVVDD and MSVVDD via dipswitches or Classified would close that gap. I usually just use the slider to shift the entire curve, then lock to the desired point on the curve. That usually keeps my effective clocks within 15MHz of target clocks.
Touching the v/f curve like a did lower the effective clocks around 60-75MHz. I fixed this by using the classified tool and bumping the voltage to the point where effective clocks are 3-5MHz difference from requested clocks. You can check this with Thermspy or HWINFO64 (Effective clocks). The best way to bench is v/f curve + classified tool. When you set a v/f curve, you can limit the wattage being used so there isn't any PWR limit (520W). Dipswitches only work with offset OC. If you touch v/f curve, the effect of the dipswitches is lost. This also apply if you touch classified tool. The best way to make dipswitches work is offset OC which is the best for daily OC since effective clocks are high. You'll know dipswitches are working when NVVDD on idle is 0.800v instead of 0.700v on the OLED screen. For the Time Spy run, I locked the voltage point to 1.018v +180 and used 1.125v NVVDD, 1.025 MSVDD, 1.40v FBVDD and LLC2 on both in classified tool. Keep in mind, every voltage point in v/f curve needs different NVVDD/MSVVDD combination and more voltage than it needs is worse. It creates more heat = lower avg clocks. EDIT: Been playing Star Wars Battlefront 2 at 3440x1440 Ultra with my daily offset OC +120/+1100. Tested without dipswitches: Clocks: 2130-2145MHz Effective clocks: 2080-2100MHz Max Power Draw: 450W PWR Limit: None Both dipswitches on for NVVDD and MSVVDD: Clocks: 2130-2145MHz Effective clocks: 2120-2132MHz Max Power Draw: 510W PWR Limit: None
post edited by SoldierRBT - 2021/02/06 12:29:11
Attached Image(s)
|
professordumbdumb
New Member
- Total Posts : 30
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2020/05/23 16:41:55
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/11 21:19:23
(permalink)
Good to finally see some progress on this. Will correlate once KP in hand later next week.
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/11 23:27:02
(permalink)
@SoldierRBT I'm going to be revisiting that method soon to see if I can get higher effective/overall clocks with the Dipswitches & offset OCing instead of messing with the curve bits. I have a feeling it's going to be hard to beat either of the two VF curves I've got nailed down pretty well, but we shall see.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
dexmex88
New Member
- Total Posts : 22
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2019/01/29 17:39:50
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/12 17:41:29
(permalink)
I notice a couple people saying they have slider issues. Did anyone find the fix to this? My OC BIOS shows the correct 480w and LN2 at 520w but regardless of which I'm on, slider is stuck at 105.
|
Dabadger84
CLASSIFIED Member
- Total Posts : 3426
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2018/05/11 23:49:52
- Location: de_Overpass, USA
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 10
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/13 00:36:56
(permalink)
dexmex88 I notice a couple people saying they have slider issues. Did anyone find the fix to this? My OC BIOS shows the correct 480w and LN2 at 520w but regardless of which I'm on, slider is stuck at 105.
What version of Afterburner are you using? Never encountered this as an issue on 4.6.3 Beta 5.
ModRigs: https://www.modsrigs.com/detail.aspx?BuildID=42891 Specs:5950x @ 4.7GHz 1.3V - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero - eVGA 1200W P2 - 4x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Royal Silver @ 3800 CL14Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC w/ Core: 2850MHz @ 1000mV, Mem: +1500MHz - Samsung Odyssey G9 49" Super-Ultrawide 240Hz Monitor
|
dexmex88
New Member
- Total Posts : 22
- Reward points : 0
- Joined: 2019/01/29 17:39:50
- Status: offline
- Ribbons : 0
Re: 3090 Kingpin Power Limit Issue Revisited
2021/02/13 14:45:10
(permalink)
Dabadger84
dexmex88 I notice a couple people saying they have slider issues. Did anyone find the fix to this? My OC BIOS shows the correct 480w and LN2 at 520w but regardless of which I'm on, slider is stuck at 105.
What version of Afterburner are you using? Never encountered this as an issue on 4.6.3 Beta 5.
Honestly now I'm just ultra confused. After like 5 restarts and reinstalls to OLDER PX1 versions, it's showing 121 on Afterburner and PX1. However... now if I flip it to any any other BIOS, it doesn't change lol. Also, the slider seems to not actually DO anything as I can't pull more than 430-440 watts in PR or games.
|