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Helpful ReplyHot!3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables?

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bmwm3smg
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2021/01/25 12:20:11 (permalink)
Any ideas on what is going on with the 8-Pin #3 Power draw on my new 3090 FTW3? These were the max numbers on my first Port Royal run on my card. Default settings (no OC), running the OC Bios (same results with the Normal Bios). Power Supply is a 1300 G2. Please let me know if I missed any pertinent info that you guys need.

Thanks!
 
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sparetimepc
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/25 12:43:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bmwm3smg 2021/01/25 13:25:57
It's been a known problem with this model card, most people are having the same issue.




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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/25 13:15:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bmwm3smg 2021/01/25 13:25:43
See also (from less than a day ago, on the same page of the forum):
https://forums.evga.com/3090-8pin-3-low-power-usage-m3208315.aspx
 
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/25 19:19:38 (permalink)
If it's a known problem, and most people are having the issue, why is the fix not easier to find?  I can't find anything on how to fix this.  
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ty_ger07
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/25 19:23:42 (permalink)
There is no official fix.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/02/19 15:13:24
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/26 07:30:56 (permalink)
Well, as far as I understand everything, I'd much rather have one of my GPU power cables pulling an extra 8 watts, as opposed to my PCIE slot overdrawing. At least this way if something fries, I think it will be limited to the 8-pin power cable and possibly the PSU, not the motherboard... I'm not sure if the GPU would be damaged if the 8-pin fried, anybody know?

Thanks guys! :)
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/01/26 11:53:12 (permalink)
bmwm3smg
Well, as far as I understand everything, I'd much rather have one of my GPU power cables pulling an extra 8 watts, as opposed to my PCIE slot overdrawing. At least this way if something fries, I think it will be limited to the 8-pin power cable and possibly the PSU, not the motherboard... I'm not sure if the GPU would be damaged if the 8-pin fried, anybody know?

Thanks guys! :)




I think you are missing the point of the problem.  The card is limiting itself to lower performance because 8-pin #3 is *only* pulling 75w when it should be pulling 150w.  
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/12 09:08:58 (permalink)
I'm having the same issue with my new 3070 FTW3.  Right now at idle 8-pin #1 is showing 15W and 8-pin #2 is showing 3W. 
 
Running OCCT real quick to load it shows #1: 127.825W and #2 88.546W.  GPU PCIe +3.3V Input Power (est)  is also holding firm at 0.336W.  Is this too low, or is the HWiNFO64 showing the decimal in the wrong place?
 
Before upgrading to 3070 FTW3 I was using an evga 1060 SC and could throw any benchmark at it fine.  That's still the case but 3Dmark has been rebooting to bios collecting systeminfo and at the start of a OCCT "Power" benchmark the computer does the same, kicks me to a black screen and it POSTS like normal.  I was using a ThermalTake iRGB 750W so I swapped in a Corsair RM850 and I'm still showing the same uneven readings.  Thing is I can game just fine at max settings.  the only game giving me random errors is COD Warzone.  Every other game (World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Battle Front 2 to name a few) play fine.  I left Unigine Heaven running for about 30 mins and had no crashing.  Can the power from the wall make a difference?  Should I switch electrical outlets to check?
 
The other thing is even if I use Precision X and try to OC the Memory Clock or GPU clock by 1 Mhz I get that same reboot, sometimes seconds after I click apply.  Adjusting Power Target seems to yield the same results so i've kept it at default 100.
 
 
post edited by mberohn - 2021/02/12 09:13:11
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 02:29:57 (permalink)
I don't get it. All these 3090 FTW3 card use identical design and components. Why is there such a  difference in plug power usage between cards even when the power supply is not the issue. Bad design? Bad components? 
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 17:02:06 (permalink)
It's not just the 3090's having this problem, my 3070 is acting similar> and Pin 2 drops voltage.
 
post edited by MDG73 - 2021/02/17 15:04:41

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 17:07:31 (permalink)
What is the Problem?


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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 17:26:11 (permalink)
Well.. just checked mine.. its not...  
 
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 17:40:00 (permalink)
Feklar
I don't get it. All these 3090 FTW3 card use identical design and components. Why is there such a  difference in plug power usage between cards even when the power supply is not the issue. Bad design? Bad components? 


EVGA used a downgraded inexpensive analog voltage controller instead of a commonly-used more expensive digital voltage controller.  When they did that, it is possible that their implementation became more heavily reliant on resistor, capacitor, and or/inductor values for proper analog measurement; and they may have not adequately taken into account manufacturing tolerances for those supplementary components.  Additionally, if they cheapened out on the voltage controller, what's to say that they didn't decide to use cheaper supplementary components with looser manufacturing tolerances as well?  There are different standardized tiers in manufacturing tolerances, and you have to pay different prices for a higher tier component with better guaranteed tolerance.  Standard tolerances range  from +/- 20% of rated value for cheap components, to +/- 1% of rated value for expensive components.
Manufacturing tolerances -- and not adequately engineering with manufacturing tolerances in mind -- can easily explain why different cards read different values and some are more unbalanced than others.
 
mberohn
GPU PCIe +3.3V Input Power (est) is also holding firm at 0.336W. Is this too low, or is the HWiNFO64 showing the decimal in the wrong place?

As far as I know, these cards don't use the +3.3v power input, so I would expect the value indicated would be very low, and would simply be a measurement of error.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/02/13 17:49:31
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:08:41 (permalink)
sparetimepc
It's been a known problem with this model card, most people are having the same issue.



Don't you think the wording "most" is a bit inaccurate?  There are "some" having this problem, while others like myself do not have this problem.
 
To those who are having the issue, have you tried swapping the placement of the PSU cables to see if its always on #3?

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:36:09 (permalink)
Turbo-12R
To those who are having the issue, have you tried swapping the placement of the PSU cables to see if its always on #3?

Yes, they have.  The problem cards have the problem consistently until the card is either replaced or an unofficial BIOS is used.  I understand blaming users and systems, but, no offense, too much blame is being put on users.  I don't understand why users are being blamed when there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary.
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:42:13 (permalink)
ty_ger07
 
Yes, they have.  The problem cards have the problem consistently until the card is either replaced or an unofficial BIOS is used.  I understand blaming users and systems, but, no offense, too much blame is being put on users.  I don't understand why users are being blamed when there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary.



Using the word "some" vs. "most" is not blaming.  It's merely being factual.  Not everyone has this issue.

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:54:48 (permalink)
As far as I can tell, there is no problem. Each GPU is acting similarly with similar power draw percentage differences between the inputs. The BIOS controls the power draw of each input. Unless you test the GPU's in pretty much identical systems with the exact same settings and the exact same game or bench, you cannot tell anything. And of course, software readings are notoriously unreliable for much beyond 'idiot lights' for most part. Whatever software you're using is dependent upon the accuracy of the sensor it is supposedly reporting. Is this actually a design flaw or as intended?
Is what others are looking for is that both PCIe 8 pin are more drawing more equally? I seem to recall something about the design of the PWM where one input is treated more like a 75 watt 6 pin than a true 150 watt 8 pin input.

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:55:36 (permalink)
Turbo-12R
ty_ger07
 
Yes, they have.  The problem cards have the problem consistently until the card is either replaced or an unofficial BIOS is used.  I understand blaming users and systems, but, no offense, too much blame is being put on users.  I don't understand why users are being blamed when there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary.



Using the word "some" vs. "most" is not blaming.  It's merely being factual.  Not everyone has this issue.


Did I quote you about "some" vs "most"?  No.  I am not arguing that, am I?  There is no data.   There is no point in arguing that either way.
 
 
Read the part of your quote I was replying to.  It's not a cable or power supply issue.
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 19:59:06 (permalink)
ty_ger07
 
Read the part of your quote I was replying to.  It's not a cable or power supply issue.




Regardless, I'm not sure where you get the "blaming" part.  I was asking a simple question.  Additionally, do you even have one of these cards?  Your profile suggests that you do not.

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 20:05:16 (permalink)
 
Ok, fine, not blaming.  Not "blaming", just resistant to believing that the cards could have a problem, neglecting to read people's posts where they have already stated that they have tried what you suggested, and appearing to question people's systems and the user's ability to assemble a system properly or troubleshoot effectively.
 
No, I don't own one of these cards.  I would never buy one of these cards.  They are bad.  Remember when I wrote "mountain of evidence"?
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 20:15:04 (permalink)
I'm glad you were here to get me back on track as to what my intentions were.  Thank you.
 
Yet mine and others work as intended.  All the while, you continue to be a naysayer, comment off of hearsay and speculation.  Ok...got it. 

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 20:20:03 (permalink)
Turbo-12R
Yet mine and others work as intended.

Others and others don't work as intended.  There is a 147-page thread at the top of this forum section rampant with people reporting power balancing issues.  I am glad that you are happy with your purchase, but please don't belittle or devalue people who are having these problems.  This thread wouldn't exist if the user wasn't having an issue.
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 20:26:33 (permalink)
Because I am not jumping on the "EVGA 3090's are a bunch of junk" bandwagon, somehow I am belittling people?  Heh...quite the stretch there buddy.  I think it's more inversely that you are getting irritated with me because I do not have any issues.  I'm just here saying that not "ALL" of us are having these issues.  Get it?

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 20:34:09 (permalink)
3060 ti here, also just noticed this. I thought about trying the single cable/splitter that came with my PSU but it seems that won't change anything? My 3060 ti FTW3 Ultra is already very limited on OCing, and from what I read it's basically a 5% increase over the FE versions. Kind of crappy. I came from a 1070 ftw3 and it was night at day compared to the 1070 SC I upgraded from. Would be nice to see this issue fixed, but I highly doubt it will be anytime soon, and I suspect nothing short of RMA's will fix it. I am seriously regretting going with EVGA this time. I know the internet is full of people coming on just to report problems, but this is insane. I RMA's my 1070sc and upgraded to the ftw3 icx whatever it was called due to the thermal throttling issues that EVGA addressed almost immediately after release. I sold it to get this card and I guess I should have just kept it and waited for an ASUS or something? Not very fond of ASUS or MSI though. Anyways, sorry for the complaints, but two 8 pin cables and only an 8% power increase for a minimal 5% gain just is NOT the EVGA FTW3 I knew from previous releases. Very disappointing, and now this power draw issue... O well, at least if I decide to sell I know I can make more money that I bought it for...
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 21:28:02 (permalink)
*eats popcorn whilst enjoying a 3090 that knows how to power balance properly* 
 
By the way, this is not an issue that effects "everyone" - but a lot of 3090s do have this problem in the FTW3 variety of the card.  As indicated in reviews of the card, the FTW3 of this generation (both the 3080 and the 3090) is the closest it has every been to a "Reference" model - in fact most would say in a lot of ways the FE is actually a better card (which it is, sort of) - and it is definitely not worth the price paid.  I am saying this as someone who had a 3090 FTW3 Hybrid that had the power limit issue of not being able to hit anywhere near "500W" on the supposed "500W" XOC Beta BIOS - which maybe, someday, they'll fix, maybe they won't... one would assume so, but by the time it's "fixed" the 3090 FTW3's reputation is already so FUBARed, I doubt it will matter.
 
For anyone looking at getting a 3090, I'd highly recommend if you're willing to spend the $1799+ on the FTW3, that you give serious consideration to queuing for a Kingpin instead.  If you can fit the AIO in your system, it is well worth the extra bit of money required to get one of those instead.   I would say as far as 3090s go, the FTW3 (Hybrid or regular air cooled Ultra) is not worth the asking price, not that any 3090 is, let's be real, they're overpriced period, but the FTW3 especially is not worth the mark up.  The Kingpin however, is an upgraded PCB, VRMs, all of that good stuff - and it's cooling is just plain better, both stock with the AIO, and if you're willing to invest another $60 or so in some heatsinks & thermal pads, it runs so much cooler than regular 3090s, it's kind of ridiculous.
That is one of the major drawbacks on the FE, from what I hear, the stock memory cooling is not great.

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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 23:14:43 (permalink)
Turbo-12R
Because I am not jumping on the "EVGA 3090's are a bunch of junk" bandwagon, somehow I am belittling people?  Heh...quite the stretch there buddy.  I think it's more inversely that you are getting irritated with me because I do not have any issues.  I'm just here saying that not "ALL" of us are having these issues.  Get it?


I am still enjoying my 3090FTW3 Ultra with a 100+ days and 600+ hours of gaming plus 75+ 3dMark benchmarks to boot. Just don't mind him as I just ignore myself as keeps on auguring with you to drive up his post count.



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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/13 23:24:48 (permalink)
Turbo-12R
I think it's more inversely that you are getting irritated with me because I do not have any issues.

No, I got irritated with you (and others like you) for:
1) feeling like you have to come here and tell people that you aren't having these same problems -- as if somehow that helps the person who is having problems -- when you could have instead posted nothing at all and been equally helpful
2) implying that the person is somehow doing something wrong, has an inferior system, or is unable to effectively perform troubleshooting; when there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to show that this is not a rare problem and there is no officially-supported method to fix this problem
and 3) arguing about how common -- or not common -- this problem is, as if there is data to back up either argument; and as if it really is helpful -- either way -- to the person who is having a problem, to argue about how common or uncommon the problem is.
 
 
And just like that Badboy64 is here, like usual, to provide the same unhelpful comment.
 
Edit:
It is in poor taste.  It is unhelpful.  It lacks empathy.  And it is often condescending.  It comes off as 'I am not seeing this problem with my card, so you must be doing something wrong'.
There are threads in this forum where users have posted about how much they like their video cards and how they haven't had any issues.  Why don't you focus your efforts empathizing with them about your shared positive experiences?  Let others empathize with these people's negative experiences and talk facts about those experiences, instead of throwing the thread off-subject into an argument about how common or uncommon the issue is; an argument which does nothing to help the user with their issue and which can never be won, by either side, because EVGA is a privately-owned company with no published sales data and no shareholders to address.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2021/02/13 23:47:50
#27
neteng101
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/14 06:47:39 (permalink)
Dabadger84
*eats popcorn whilst enjoying a 3090 that knows how to power balance properly* 
 



Its very likely the uP9511 - the controller is as dumb as bricks and relies on an analog feedback loop from the GPU to tell it what to do.  Everything is set once it leaves the factory and there's no way to change the behavior via firmware.  This is very likely why we've not seen any fixes to the FTW3's dying out there, since they can't reprogram the power delivery logic on the fly.
 
Every card using the uP9511 seems to have imperfect power balance - my 3080 XC3 Ultra draws 25-30W less on #1 while #2 PCIe reaches 150W easily...  very much like the picture posted here for the FTW3, but at least it doesn't have a 3rd input that's super weak.  And it makes sense for the FTW3 given what the decoded MCU code showed in programming for the FTW3, the 3rd PCIe power rail was initially meant to be 6-pin ie. 75W capability.  Seems like EVGA changed the connector last minute, but forgot to rebalance the power delivery.  And now they have this big problem with FTW3 cards with no easy answers.
 
EVGA can release all the BIOS updates they want but the card can't magically realign itself physically to rebalance power.  Would agree that if someone was already spending all that money for a 3090 they'd want a Kingpin type card.
#28
ph00ny
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/14 08:03:02 (permalink)
Are you guys using 3 separate pcie plugs or one daisy chained?
Mine seem to be drawing hair more out of the third PCIE connector compared to #1 and #2
At 481w max draw
PCIE#1: 131.4
PCIE#2: 133.8
PCIE#3: 144.1
Based on the GPU-Z graph, it looks like #1 and #2 were rock solid in terms consistent power draw. #3 was the one that was moving up and down but not as dramatic as what folks are reporting above
#29
ty_ger07
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra Uneven Power Draw Across 8-pin cables? 2021/02/14 08:20:51 (permalink)
The vast majority are using three separate cables, and no, it's not something that they are doing wrong. The cards which have this problem, have this problem, and there is no official way to fix it. See page 1 where we just got done discussing this line of thinking.
#30
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