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Hot!12 Pin connector with Ampere?

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bobmitch
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2020/07/16 05:44:54 (permalink)

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#1

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    z999z3mystorys
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 06:01:09 (permalink)
    We might end up having more cables for a bit with an adapter til it gets into PSU. guess it'll be like 2 molex to 6 pin, or 2 6 pin to 8 pin, only now 2 8 pin to 12 pin.


     
     
    #2
    aka_STEVE_b
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 08:13:39 (permalink)
    Kinda dumb if you expect people to plunk down for a new card & new style PSU at the same time...
     ..for a spec that hasn't even been announced by any manufacturers...
     
    It's going to be adapter city for most... which doesn't help if the actual specs require more amperage to go thru the wire than the current units & adapters will allow.?  So that would negate any benefit of the 'new' connector ...
     
    Just doesn't seem like a smart move all-around. ( Except for the PSU makers ) - they would probably love it.
     
     
     
     

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    #3
    rjohnson11
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 09:11:10 (permalink)
    From the article:
     
    "...Graphics card vendors will include ketchup-and-mustard adapters that convert 2x 8-pin to 1x 12-pin; while most case/power manufacturers will release fancy aftermarket adapters with better aesthetics..."

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    aka_STEVE_b
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 09:51:37 (permalink)

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    #5
    vegajf51
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 12:20:17 (permalink)
    Fake
    #6
    castrator86
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 13:28:48 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    Fake




    #7
    kougar
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 15:57:46 (permalink)
    According to translations and the mods at r/hardware it was simply made up. https://twitter.com/Eegras/status/1283502323893964800


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    #8
    Miguell
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 16:54:37 (permalink)
    kougar
    According to translations and the mods at r/hardware it was simply made up. https://twitter.com/Eegras/status/1283502323893964800




    thank the gods!!!! 
    12 pin sure seemed too much
     
    tho its nothing that a simple 12 pin adapter sold along with the gfx wouldn't solve :)

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    #9
    rjohnson11
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/16 22:41:43 (permalink)
    Yes this info could indeed be fake

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    #10
    ty_ger07
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/17 05:14:52 (permalink)
    Like I said in the other thread, I don't believe it.

    I don't care how "real" or "fake" it is reported to be. I'm not going to believe it until I see it.
    #11
    MasterMiner
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/17 14:03:46 (permalink)
    This would be beyond idiocy. Isn’t ampere suppose to reduce power requirements with a smaller node?

    Who goes out and buys a card without *any* psu currently on the market supporting it?

    I used to mine. Now I compute.
    #12
    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/17 15:59:17 (permalink)
    This is probably Nvidia throwing a wrench into the mix to catch the leakers.

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    #13
    Cool GTX
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/17 19:14:00 (permalink)
    funny ... click bait

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    #14
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/18 10:21:29 (permalink)
    MasterMiner
    This would be beyond idiocy. Isn’t ampere suppose to reduce power requirements with a smaller node?

    Who goes out and buys a card without *any* psu currently on the market supporting it?

     
     
    so you would rather use two 8 pin plugs than use one 12 pin???... let alone two 6 pins or three 8pins

     
    lol really . simplifying the connector would have been better
    specially if you could deliver more power to overclock like a kingpin edition
     
     
    btw most PSU are modular - there wouldn't be anymore cables in your PC - just that the PSU would come withe a different connector with the traditional GPU power cable
    you also may have a beefer  connector on the PSU side
     

    The Curious Case of the 12-pin Power Connector: It's Real and Coming with NVIDIA Ampere GPUs

    https://www.techpowerup.com/269957/the-curious-case-of-the-12-pin-power-connector-its-real-and-coming-with-nvidia-ampere-gpus
     
    Over the past few days, we've heard chatter about a new 12-pin PCIe power connector for graphics cards being introduced, particularly from Chinese language publication FCPowerUp, including a picture of the connector itself. Igor's Lab also did an in-depth technical breakdown of the connector. TechPowerUp has some new information on this from a well placed industry source. The connector is real, and will be introduced with NVIDIA's next-generation "Ampere" graphics cards. The connector appears to be NVIDIA's brain-child, and not that of any other IP- or trading group, such as the PCI-SIG, Molex or Intel. The connector was designed in response to two market realities - that high-end graphics cards inevitably need two power connectors; and it would be neater for consumers to have a single cable than having to wrestle with two; and that lower-end (<225 W) graphics cards can make do with one 8-pin or 6-pin connector.
     
     
     
     
     
    A new 12-pin power connector might be introduced with Nvidia Ampere graphics cards
     
    https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/joao-silva/a-new-12-pin-power-connector-might-be-introduced-with-nvidia-ampere-graphics-cards/
     
     
    Igorlab did their own investigation as well not relying on fcpowerup info ...and got info from their own sources
     
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/18 10:46:31


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    #15
    Dukman
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/18 10:39:28 (permalink)
    It would be simple enough just to repin a couple 6 pin cables into the new 12 pin housing.  At least for those of us that have the tools.   


    For the average user though, adapters.

    Heatware
     

     
     
    #16
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/18 10:59:31 (permalink)
    if the story is fake so what if it's true so what - most of us won't change our purchases
     
    either we will use an adapter or get a new PSU when the time comes - im doing a new build
     
    all a psu manufacturer has to do is change the plug on the PSU side to beefier plug and offer both the old 6+2 pin connector cable with the new 12 pin cable - since most PSU are modular
     
    and the AIB or card manufacturer would provide an adapter
     
    so you gonna give up Nvidia because you have to use an adapter at least for awhile???? get real
     


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    #17
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/18 20:18:59 (permalink)
    kougar
    According to translations and the mods at r/hardware it was simply made up. https://twitter.com/Eegras/status/1283502323893964800




    the chinese phrase was for the diagram which was made up by the author(since he could not find a connector drawing or pic)...not the story
    we have OFFICIAL diagrams from Sources other to say otherwise with part numbers and specs
     
     
    9.5 AMPS per pin
    6 PINS IS 57 AMPS
    675 watt connector or more accurate 570+114 or 684 Watts
    however 2 pins are used for sense so 1 power 1 gnd
    625  Watt connector
     
     
    from igors lab
     

    The initial situation

    First of all, we should be interested to know what is actually true about this rumour. It was probably already at the end of May 2020, when some power supply companies showed real panic attacks and I came into contact with this ominous 12-pin connector for the first time. Because especially among the power supply manufacturers this construction was discussed very controversially and so I am actually surprised that it took almost another 3 months until now one page has reported about it.
     
     
    so this info was circulated in May between Nvidia, PSU companies and some tech reviewers
     
     


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    #18
    MasterMiner
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 00:19:10 (permalink)
    I’m not an ee so I’ll be the first to admit my cluelessness. But power is power. As a practical matter why force an adaptor on ppl?

    It’s a hassle.

    I used to mine. Now I compute.
    #19
    kougar
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 02:51:04 (permalink)
    Xavier, the igors lab article was based off the FCPowerup leak. And the mods over at r/hardware verified the translation on the FCPowerup hardware claiming it was made up. 
     
    It's just pointless anyway, if they needed extra pins they can just use three 6 or 8 pin connectors and remain compatible with all the PSUs already on the market. There's no reason for such a connector to exist. It's like someone designed an arbitrary 16-pin EPS12Vx2 connector for motherboards, entirely pointless and it causes significant compatibility problems for zero gain.  


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    #20
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 10:44:56 (permalink)
    igors post was not based on the fcpowerup story
     
    they did a independent review .seeing that igor knew about the new power plug in may already
     
    furthermore both techpowerup(not FCpowerup which was the first story) and igors got additional tech papers
    and techpowerup decided to also review the original story
     
    from Videocardz
     
    A new power connector
     
    The most bizarre rumor so far is the claim about a new power connector exclusively for the Founders Edition. The leak with RTX 3080 Founders Edition has revealed that the sample had no regular power connectors attached directly to the board. There was simply no trace of it. NVIDIA could simply add the power connectors to the back of the card, as they did with RTX 2070FE (pictures here), or they could make a new connector that takes less space but requires an adapter. This rumor has not yet been confirmed, but it is a fact that the leaked picture did not show any regular PCIe power connectors.
     
    250W TGP and 220W TGP for GeForce RTX 3070S and RTX 3070 non-S
     
    from toms hardware
     
    A rumor has been spreading around the hardware circles that Nvidia's upcoming Ampere graphics cards might use a 12-pin PCIe power connector. Some news outlets are reporting the rumor as fact, while others are treating it as a sham. Our own insider source has confirmed that the connector is indeed real and has been submitted to the PCI-SIG standards body. However, it remains to be seen whether it will pass approval.
     
    from techpowerup
     TechPowerUp has some new information on this from a well placed industry source. The connector is real
     
    from igorslab
     
     It was probably already at the end of May 2020, when some power supply companies showed real panic attacks and I came into contact with this ominous 12-pin connector for the first time.
     
    Interesting, however, are the specifications, which differ considerably from the current AWG20 and allow considerably more air to escape. In contrast to the data from FCPOWERUP, the data here even refers to 9.5 amperes per pin. Also for this I have already received suitable data in May, which can also prove the whole thing:

     
    Secondly I am for one liking the new plug
     
    lets simplify the dang PSU - put  large connectors on the PSU side for the GPU power - all the manufacturer has to do is change the bloody plugs on the PSU side  pull the power from a single rail(with enough juice) for each cable
    and provide different cables for  the different plugs on the GPUs - so you will have 12pin cables and (6+2) pin cables for older GPU's
     
    PSU manufacturers - any good one make modular PSU's that have no cables that come out but have plugs at the PSU and have plugg in cables - you only plug in what u need and have less Wiring to deal with
    it's the ones that are the cheaper versions or lower end PSU that  have the mess of wires that come out that are balking
     
    i for one believe ALL PSU should use plugs and as unison help get rid of the cable mess from the PSU
     
    or you one to like plugging in MULTIPLE 8 pins like here...LOL three 8 Pins

     
     
    I for one like the idea of ONE SINGLE PLUG - one with enough juice to OVERCLOCK like KINGPIN WOULD
     
    or would you rather plug in extra cables and have the extra wire mess above - imagine if it was four 8 pins..lol its possible now with the the power draw cards are getting into
    it not the GPU chip thats drawing all the power its the RAM and the high speed of it...the faster the ram the more power you need - the more ram = more power
     
    you want faster and bigger cards expect more power- just like CPUs you want to overclock - you need more power
     
     
    most upper end cards require 2 plugs so simplifying and just have one plug for all would be better
     
    lower end cards can almost all be powered from the PCIe slot itself now
     
    secondly a better plug also reduces power Loss+noise and offers less corrosion or as we say arcing and carboning - loss of connection - less surface over time - due to heat and expansion on the pins
    more pins is always better - more surface area is always better
     
    i take it you never repaired Power connectors on major electronic machines like i did - like arc burn - due to cold solder- arcing, carboning - and i wind up replacing the connector - that means replacing the burned out pins and putting all the wires in a new molex plug usually
     
     
    from IGORSLAB
     
    In summary, if it’s really more than just a mind game, NVIDIA can only be congratulated, because you could throw all the current and often dangerous wiring of various cheap power supplies on the garbage heap of history at once. This would not only make sense, but as a new standard it would certainly contribute a lot to the operational reliability of powerful graphics cards. 
     
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    last note:  a new plug Does not mean more power use from the card - just that they want to replace the plug now so that future cards may have better connection and more power available
     
    case in point more ram equates to more power use - we may see 24GB or even HIGHER amounts - hopper could have 96GB HBM3 - so think 48GB GDDR6 or GDDR7
     
    and overclocked card uses more power - or are we forgetting the three 8 pin kingpin or lightning 2080ti
     
    with this plug you clean up the power plug mess
     
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/19 13:19:25


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    #21
    atfrico
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 13:06:53 (permalink)
    Yay i ditch my recently newly bought EVGA PSU out the window for a 12 pin recommended PSU for an NVIDIA GPU. Forcing me to spend more money on a PSU to be used in a more expensive GPU skipping the reality that we are living in a shady time and economy turmoil that humanity is facing today. Once again another selfish move by your lovely Nvidia. Clap clap.

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    #22
    ty_ger07
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 14:10:40 (permalink)
    I will still wait to see it before I believe it. I see it being in the future, but this near future? Hmm. We'll see.

    Xavier Zepherious
    with this plug you clean up the power plug mess

    With this plug you can add adapters in order to create an even greater mess.

    You use your old wires from your present PSU, with not enough amperage rating, so you have to use more than 12 wires from your present PSU to power the 12 pin connector; and you add an ugly adapter into the mix.

    Or, are you saying that people won't be using their old PSU?

    In another thread, someone said that this 12-pin plug would create more incentive to buying a AMD GPU because people won't want to replace their perfectly fine PSU just because of this 12-pin plug supposedly on the new NVIDIA GPUs. But then it was argued, no, no, you can just keep using your present PSU and use an adapter. Well, then you can't have the supposedly better aesthetics nor higher amperage wires. So... it's kind of a bust one way or the other; more cost in investing into a new PSU, or uglier and less reliable due to an increased number of connection points.

    What was wrong with using the proper channels in order to create an industry standard connector which can be widely discussed, accepted, and incorporated within the industry in a way which will create a smooth rollout? So... again, I will wait to see it before I believe it exists. Springing it so soon seems pretty bold and combative.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/07/19 14:30:17
    #23
    Xavier Zepherious
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/19 16:14:07 (permalink)
    the new card won't be any higher draw than three 8pins like the 2080ti lightning or Kingpin- i hope
    so making an adapter(providing one by Nvidia or AIB- i don't like people making their own ) that your PSU can handle won't be the issue
     
    you use three 8 pins in a spagetti mess of cross wiring basically using 3 rails
     
    that provided the adapter uses wires..it may not it make be one hard black plastic plug that sits on top of the new plug
    it could be a hard plastic molex that attaches to the 12 pin socket that has three 8 pin sockets in it - basically making the power plug taller and wider on the card
     
    quit thinking old days kind of plugs - think molded to fit the card(snap onto) maybe hang around the top or over the side or front allowing for plugging to front of card or upward from the bottom so you don't see wires
     
    maybe RGB the power bridge/adapter for it ...make it look like 6 solid tubes that go into the cable management hole - that pulse like the warp reactor in ST-TNG or RGB rainbow it - have it on blue tooth to set up the color patterns your want - provide a usb -bluuetooth dongle as well
     
    that would be neat - get rid of seeing any wires
     
    you would have enough power available provided your rail or rails on the PSU can provide it ( some PSU use multiple rails while some use 1 big single rail)
    the connectors should be able to handle the power
     
     
    the problem will lay in 2 Video cards or more and needing two or more 12 pins - whose gonna have six or 9 or 12... 8 pins avail to hook up
     
    most here will just have the ONE VIDEO card so this won't be an issue
    provided you have a PSU that can handle enough draw
     
    you want 4-way NVlink.... well - Dual PSUs anyone????
     
    anyways with amount of ram on the cards going up the power consumption of the cards are not going to go down...only up
    yes the chip itself draws less power but when you want to double triple quadriple the amount of ram and clock it faster too means 2,3,4x the power draw?? just from the ram
     
     
    so yes a new Connector standard is needed now 
     
     
    and I assume the AIB are not having the 12 pin right away - maybe the FE only for 1 year or at least 6 months til PSU manufacturers catch up
    and the connector gets pci-sig approval
     
    so what??? you buy EVGA or another AIB with the old connectors and don't Buy the NVidia FE card
     
    whats the problem? ...is it "you have to buy a new PSU or i have to deal with an adapter?"  - boo hoo me  mentality
    when in fact there will be both avail ... at least thats the news
     
    so you really have to have the Nvidia FE card???? and can't wait for a AIB card with the old connectors????
     
    there is also talk of going to a singular 12v PSU - modular even 24v or  48v like servers - you can drop amperage while providing more power 
     
    post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2020/07/19 17:17:04


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    #24
    rjohnson11
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/20 22:42:03 (permalink)

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    #25
    Sajin
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/20 23:36:49 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Gamers Nexus has confirmed the 12 pin:
     
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3605-hw-news-nvidia-rtx-3080-12-pin-cable-ddr5-spec-intel-i9-10850k


    OEM only? Hmm. Ok.

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    #26
    Cool GTX
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/21 14:08:20 (permalink)
    Sajin
    rjohnson11
    Gamers Nexus has confirmed the 12 pin:
     
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3605-hw-news-nvidia-rtx-3080-12-pin-cable-ddr5-spec-intel-i9-10850k


    OEM only? Hmm. Ok.


     
    (excerpt link)
     
    "AIB partners and have been able to confirm that custom cards, and even custom coolers based on the reference PCB, will ship with 2x 8-pin or 3x 8-pin connectors"

    good to see AIB partners should dodge that 12 pin issue issue

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    kougar
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/22 09:21:19 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Gamers Nexus has confirmed the 12 pin:
     
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3605-hw-news-nvidia-rtx-3080-12-pin-cable-ddr5-spec-intel-i9-10850k




    Silly Steve... said he knew about it but didn't think it needed to be reported on.  OEMs makes a little more sense at least, particularly given how many OEMs seem unable to plug in cables on prebuilts in GN testing.


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    #28
    larrysb
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/28 13:27:32 (permalink)
    The 12-pin would be a significant improvement. Better current carrying capability, in a single connector the same size as a current 8-pin. 
     
    Why all the FUD? Good grief. 
     
    "We want new technology"
    "Ok, here's a better PCIe power connector"
    "No, no, no we don't want new technology we HATE YOU how DARE YOU!!!". 
     
    Seriously, if you're running anything built in the last decade, it probably has a modular power supply. You get a new cable to plug in and that is it. 
     
    Seems better to me. 
    #29
    Hoggle
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    Re: 12 Pin connector with Ampere? 2020/07/28 15:10:18 (permalink)
    From what I have read about this it seems more like something that they are asking for 12 pin to become a standard for PCI-E cards as an option. The same way PSU now have 6 and 8 pin they would have to get approval for 12 pin. It doesn't mean we would see it soon or on a consumer product which should be able to get enough power off of two 8-pin power connections. 

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    #30
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