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Helpful Replyz690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps

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cmurph0
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2023/03/14 13:06:43 (permalink)
I realize there are several ways to go about this. With the current BIOS version and stock settings, this sucker hits limits fast. It seems like the stock voltage is way too high. I'm not trying to OC hard or compete, but I don't want to be lazy and leave easy gains on the table while also hitting power and thermal limits for no reason. It seems my options for tweaking voltage are:
V/F Point offsets
VCore voltage
VCore Vdroop
Is that correct? I've described my intention so with that in mind, where would EVGA suggest I start?
What I've tried so far is to set VDroop to "+90% - Max droop." Then I ran y-cruncher stress test. There was no crash, it seems stable, and temps don't go over 80c now. Stocks settings had it crushing 100c immediately which seems sub optimal.
Frequency setting options:
BCLK - since this is a k CPU, I think I should leave BCLK and work with multiplier instead, correct?
CPU Multiplier - RatioLimit
CPU Multiplier - PerCore
 
1. For someone like me, what would EVGA recommend for setting voltage, and in what order?
2. For someone with my goal of simple gains where would you recommend starting? RatioLimit?
 
Thanks!
post edited by cmurph0 - 2023/03/14 13:11:54
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Cool GTX
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/14 13:38:21 (permalink)
go ahead & list your hardware
--> which Z690?
PSU
RAM
OS
main drive
Cooling
 
Cooling is important for any OC on these 13700K CPUs - how are you going to cool CPU?


 Intel® Core™ i7-13700K Processor

Intel specs is a good start & Intel offers a tuning/testing tool Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU)
(excerpt)
 
Purpose
Intel XTU is a Windows*-based performance-tuning software that enables novice and experienced enthusiasts to overclock, monitor, and stress a system. The software interface exposes a set of robust capabilities common in most enthusiast platforms along with new features available on new Intel® application processors and Intel® motherboards.
See the release notes for supported hardware, what is new, bug fixes, and known issues. Intel XTU may or may not work on unsupported processors. 

NOTE:
It is recommended to use the latest version of Intel® XTU for enhanced features and to avoid profile incompatibility. Users with older versions of Intel® XTU profiles (7.9 and older) could experience incompatibility, and would need to contact Intel Customer Support to convert older profiles. Once converted, these profiles can be used with the latest Intel® XTU.
 
 
 
Websearch:   BIOS setting & Z690 & 13700K  there are plenty of links from all brands of Z690
 
I do not have any specific numbers to give you
 
Maybe one of our other EVGA Forum members has some setting to share

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cmurph0
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/14 13:57:53 (permalink)
z690 Classified
Seasonic 650w
Corsair 64gb DDR5 5600 MHz
Win11
M.2 SSD
Chonky air cooler - DeepCool Assassin III
ARC A770 (for video encoding and decoding and light CAD work, no gaming)
 
"Websearch:   BIOS setting & Z690 & 13700K  there are plenty of links from all brands of Z690"
I started there and it's an absolute disaster of Reddit and forum threads with a range of experience from n00bs to people trying to get to the very razor's edge of stability and going about it in very different ways. What I have found over the years is that there are easy and practical gains to be had without going for bragging rights. How to achieve that changes through generations and I'd love to hear what EVGA would recommend as a starting point now.
MSI has blogs that serve this purpose that helped but that was specific to MSI boards. I'm new to EVGA motherboards.
 
post edited by cmurph0 - 2023/03/14 14:25:03
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icslowmo
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/14 19:16:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cmurph0 2023/03/15 08:56:50
I’d recommend using the default vdroop setting and adapting voltage control. Start at 1.200 volts and go from there… I’m running this combo, 13700KF and Z690 Dark KingPin… honestly your all core load is going to be thermally limited depending on your intended use… I’m able to hit a 5.5Ghz all core load at 1.280volts (after vdroop) but required Liquid Metal to manage heat. Not the limit of my CPU but going for 5.6Ghz all core requires a pretty big jump in voltage 1.35v’ish... And 5.7Ghz all core for Cinebench R20 required a lot of voltage (1.45v) for fun runs only... and the amount of heat goes way up… but at my current settings I can have light couple core load hit 5.8ghz as well… depends on what you’re looking for…

I also have my E-cores at 4.5Ghz but they needed a bump in voltage as well (1.300v bios setting with adaptive setting).

PS. --- Be mindful that these things OC'd do pull a lot of power if you plan on fully loading it... See results from Cinebench (not the highest load that can be used) below, hit 340watts....  Honestly, you using air cooling, just leave it stock clocked and look at under-volting... If you aren't hitting thermal limits, you'll average higher clocks overall...

Managed to hit 4th place on HWbot's site for 13700KF's.... 
 
Cinebench - R20 overclocking records @ HWBOT
post edited by icslowmo - 2023/03/14 19:39:40
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cmurph0
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/15 10:14:22 (permalink)
Thanks a lot! I'm testing what you have instructed and also I've followed along with this thread: *oops forum ate my URL* "13900k OC tips (Page 3)"
You are using "adaptive" and on the final page of the other thread it seems they prefer "override." I'm going to try both. Initially, setting it to adaptive has me on the thermal limits even as I back down the target voltage, maybe I just didn't go far enough yet? I am going to go lower to see.
With "override" I have it stable and peak core temp in prime95 at 97c. All cores hit 54x and stay there. When I try for 55x all-core it is not stable and raising voltage hits thermal limits.
That has me wondering if some cores could be set to 55x without making it unstable. Are some cores going to be able to clock higher? Or is it just a matter of how many could be at 55x at once?
IF I test them individually would I likely find some cores that are unstable at 55x? Or would it be an amount of cores regardless of which core (like any 2 cores at 55x and the other 6 at 54x)?
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Cool GTX
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/15 10:20:43 (permalink)
cmurph0
Thanks a lot! I'm testing what you have instructed and also I've followed along with this thread: *oops forum ate my URL* "13900k OC tips (Page 3)"
You are using "adaptive" and on the final page of the other thread it seems they prefer "override." I'm going to try both. Initially, setting it to adaptive has me on the thermal limits even as I back down the target voltage, maybe I just didn't go far enough yet? I am going to go lower to see.
With "override" I have it stable and peak core temp in prime95 at 97c. All cores hit 54x and stay there. When I try for 55x all-core it is not stable and raising voltage hits thermal limits.
That has me wondering if some cores could be set to 55x without making it unstable. Are some cores going to be able to clock higher? Or is it just a matter of how many could be at 55x at once?
IF I test them individually would I likely find some cores that are unstable at 55x? Or would it be an amount of cores regardless of which core (like any 2 cores at 55x and the other 6 at 54x)?




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cmurph0
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/15 10:27:51 (permalink)
Thanks. I assumed I couldn't post a URL to just anywhere but filtering a link to the same subsection of the same forum is an exception I'd recommend considering. I edited in the title of the thread so it should be searchable for the future.
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icslowmo
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/16 06:28:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2023/03/16 06:32:23
Keep in mind adaptive Vcore will allow the voltage to drop at lower loads and is said to be better for long term life of the CPU… So they say… Override sets the voltage and keeps it there all the time. Not much of an issue other then it’ll make your idle/low load power usage go up… being as you’re on air-cooling, you’ll hit thermal limits pretty easily when running Prime95…
post edited by icslowmo - 2023/03/16 06:30:30
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Cool GTX
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/16 06:49:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby cmurph0 2023/03/16 14:28:42
cmurph0
Thanks. I assumed I couldn't post a URL to just anywhere but filtering a link to the same subsection of the same forum is an exception I'd recommend considering. I edited in the title of the thread so it should be searchable for the future.




 
Good idea
BR awarded
 
fixed, I  added tags to the self-starter thread so that it is easier to find

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B0baganoosh
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/16 07:01:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Cool GTX 2023/03/16 07:21:42
The z690 Classified seems to be a little odd with adaptive voltage still. I have the best results with the Adaptive setting, but leaving the voltage on "auto". I'll explain in a bit, but thought I'd give you some background:
 
If you're looking for the best all-core overclock you can get, you'll want to run override mode and sacrifice a little bit of single/dual-core higher clock-speeds. The override will force a constant voltage to the CPU cores. This is the easiest and probably best way to actually control the voltage and try to reduce power for a higher all-core overclock. 
 
If you're looking to run 1-4 cores at much higher clocks and willing to run a slightly lower all-core overclock (which is more suitable to games, but often less suitable to benchmarks and some rendering workloads), than adaptive with V/F curve adjustments is the ideal setup, but this is really quirky on the z690 Classified. Skatterbencher has some really good information on this, but his guides are not really for EVGA boards and we don't have a way to adjust the AC-DC load-lines or even a way to tell what the V/F points actually are in the EVGA BIOS (you can set offsets, but it doesn't tell you what the default voltages are for your CPU). This leads to a lot more trial and error and frankly, I can't set any adaptive voltage without it causing an increase in voltage and power to the CPU. If I leave it on "auto", the board actually does a pretty good job keeping the voltage and power reasonable. Any time I try to change that setting, the power goes up dramatically. So what I end up with is setting FLL Override on mode 1, Vdroop at -75%, and then adjusting the V/F points slightly. How much you adjust them and at what points is going to depend on your CPU, and your mileage will vary. You can see in HWiNFO64 that the offsets are working, but it's a little random and depends on seeing the cores run at those frequencies at the time (or it will just show min/max, etc.).
 
I have tried some other options, but for running my 13900k at 6GHz on 1-4 cores, 5.8 on 5 cores, 5.7 on 6 cores, 5.6 on 7 cores, 5.5 on 6 cores, 4.6 on e-cores, and 4.6 cache (which seems to yield better scores and more stable results than 5GHz for some reason), the above adaptive settings give me the lowest power and temperatures of any I've tried. I could get 5.6 or 5.7GHz all-core to have lower temperatures if I ran it on override, but then I can't hit 6GHz on a few cores and be stable for all workloads when tuned for all-core override settings. I was running 5.6 on 7 and 8 cores with the adaptive settings when I first set it up, but did some testing back and forth and found no benefit in games, especially when under most conditions the games were running on a few threads that were boosting to 6GHz, so I dropped it back to 5.5 all-core for 24/7 use as it drops power load a bit. I like to do some benchmarks, but primarily use my computer for gaming and the adaptive setup above with hitting 6GHz on up to 8 threads seems to be a reeeeally sweet spot for my CPU, so that's what I do. In most games the thing rarely gets over 115W average too. I had BF2042 hit a peak of ~240W the other day, I suspect while loading a map, but during gameplay it was nowhere near there.

6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use.
 
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cmurph0
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/16 14:32:44 (permalink)
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!
I will report back again.  I had just come here to say it seems the V/F points seem to be ignored when I use adaptive. I'm getting exactly the behavior you described. I have a stable config with "override" but I do prefer adaptive so I will start with your setting and go from there. I've learned so much about 12th and 13th gen, that other thread has been helpful as well as this one, and Scatterbench is really amazing content.
With what I've learned I can go back and improve my setting with a couple z690 boards from other vendors too so it's useful knowledge.
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cmurph0
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/03/19 10:25:13 (permalink)
Setting the voltage to auto and then getting in the ballpark with Vdroop isn't working for this system. I'm on BIOS v2.09.
Is EVGA aware that Adaptive voltage is bugged and not functional in this version? Has anyone opened a ticket? Is there an older BIOS that will work with 13th gen and adaptive voltage?
I know the components of this board are top notch but adaptive voltage seems to be the recommended path, if that's not going to be functional I might just swap it for what I usually buy.
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d138c
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/04/05 14:56:25 (permalink)
cmurph0
What I've tried so far is to set VDroop to "+90% - Max droop." Then I ran y-cruncher stress test. There was no crash, it seems stable, and temps don't go over 80c now. 

 
I'm about to start getting into undervolting my i9-13900ks to try and get the minimum current and thermals at as full of performance as possible and this is basically where I was thinking of starting, as I did my research and started getting the concept that a universal offset is clumsy because there's little room for less voltage at idle but lots of room for less voltage as the clocks and current starts to rise. so it would seem a proportional voltage offset is desireable, since minus 0.1 at low clocks is a 15% voltage reduction, but when it's ramped up to 6ghz that's going to be a 7% voltage reduction.
 
simply letting the voltage sag heavily under load seems to accomplish a load-proportional undervolt in the most natural way possible. i know the kingpin is designed to 'instantaneously melt your CPU at will' for extreme overclockers, but my last z390 kingpin and 8086k went up in smoke after years of settings that were inconsiderate of the chips comfort and safety. with the i9-13900ks i feel it would be wiser to simply make it as comfortable as possible and let intel turbo do its work. 

z690 K|ngP|n i9-13900ks 
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redhatownage
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Re: z690 with 13700k - recommended initial voltage and mild OC steps 2023/04/10 15:19:05 (permalink)
55x on pcores 45x ecores, adaptive vcore -20 to -50mv depending on what your cpu likes. Turn off all the useless things in cpu configuration, i just disable everything below the core deactivation settings.

You might also be able to get away with setting 56-57x on the first 2-4, just depends on your cpu.

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