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Hot!core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes"

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Miguell
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2020/06/18 08:10:27 (permalink)
hello everyone!
 
i need your help or at least your honest opinion!
 
this is regarding my 8700 cpu been showing high temp spikes up to 90 C!!  not average...obviously...but unusual high temp spikes
SO..
last year in march when i upgraded my pc..the "dude" from the shop said that for 50 to 60 euro i should forget AIR cooling and instead install a AIO WC loop on my cpu that was much better.... 
"SURE" i replied!  
and so...he installed the 120mm WC system from cooler master you can see on my sig!! 
 
now? well..   huge temp spikes on my  CPU!!  i don't understand it! really! never had this issue!
SO...
already reapplied new thermal paste this last Monday... the thermal grizzly Kryonaut.... cause the "dude" from the shop drowned my cpu in thermal paste..  ( i had a lot of cleaning to do.. and vacuum some dust from the radiator as well)
 
i already lowered my cpu vcore to 1.27 in BIOS and set an aggressive fan profile on the Radiator Fan but to no avail....
 
example? playing ac Odyssey the temps reach as far as 90 on some spikes but on "average"...  sticks to 65ºC to 75ºC according to HWINFO64
 
now.. the cpu is vanilla.. NOT oc'ed! i know the tjunction to be 100 on this cpu...! 
my ambient temp is between 25 and 30ºC TOPS.. these past days , so not that much of heat!
 
and i have on bios the XMP II profile  on so i can have my DDR4 mems @3200Mhz speed!
 
i reapplied that same thermal paste to my 1080 Ti that's has air cooling (dual fan) and is under 30ºC on idle and 70'ish on full load/
 
is this normal ?
have i been "scammed" by this cpu 120mm WC system just being lame?
 
i dunno what else to do... maybe not to worry?
 
thanks in advance
post edited by Miguell - 2020/06/19 12:48:15

Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
Cpu: Intel Core i7-8700
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#1

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    Sajin
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/18 09:27:30 (permalink)
    Sounds like your pump may be starting to fail.

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    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/18 16:32:37 (permalink)
    Sajin
    Sounds like your pump may be starting to fail.




    already? this was installed like.. 13 maybe 14 months ago!!
     
    how is that possible?
    i removed the 1.27V on the vcore...
    and
    did a stress test on cpu-z and gets around 80ºC.. same temp with 1.27v vcore limit!
     
    but while playing.... ac odyssey i got 85ºC temp spikes!
     
    just great! the store closed here in my area and the main building where they do technical stuff  is over 100km away..
     
    thanks for the feedback!! i should have gone with air cooling

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
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    Sajin
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/18 17:31:22 (permalink)
    How is it possible? Bad pump design most likely.

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    bob16314
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/18 23:46:49 (permalink)
    Make sure the BIOS is updated to Version 2804 which is the latest as of now.

    Run a stress test like the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool or Intel Burn Test that more evenly distributes load across all cores and see what you get..Be warned that those two tests will really get it cooking, so be sure to run the radiator fan at 100%, and watch the real-time core temps very closely.

    Games/Apps will use/stress some cores more than others at times, so spiking sometimes will not be unusual..And your ambient temp is kinda high too.

    Some BIOS settings that can help distribute CPU core load/voltage more evenly: Ai Tweaker -> SVID Behavior to Best Case Scenerio (to begin with)..Core Ratio to Sync All Cores at 46 (for a non-K CPU) or 47 (for a K CPU)..Internal CPU Power Management -> IA AC and DC Load Line to 0.01 mOhms..External Digi+ Power Control -> CPU Load Line Calibration should be fine on Auto at stock core ratio/Vcore.

    What you really need to watch is the real-time Vcore under load..It may go way higher than needed with some BIOS settings on Auto.

    Roll from there.

    That cooler doesn't have the greatest reviews either, it seems kinda lame..It also may be failing like Sajin said.

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    #5
    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 07:18:20 (permalink)
    bob16314
    Make sure the BIOS is updated to Version 2804 which is the latest as of now.

    Run a stress test like the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool or Intel Burn Test that more evenly distributes load across all cores and see what you get..Be warned that those two tests will really get it cooking, so be sure to run the radiator fan at 100%, and watch the real-time core temps very closely.

    Games/Apps will use/stress some cores more than others at times, so spiking sometimes will not be unusual..And your ambient temp is kinda high too.

    Some BIOS settings that can help distribute CPU core load/voltage more evenly: Ai Tweaker -> SVID Behavior to Best Case Scenerio (to begin with)..Core Ratio to Sync All Cores at 46 (for a non-K CPU) or 47 (for a K CPU)..Internal CPU Power Management -> IA AC and DC Load Line to 0.01 mOhms..External Digi+ Power Control -> CPU Load Line Calibration should be fine on Auto at stock core ratio/Vcore.

    What you really need to watch is the real-time Vcore under load..It may go way higher than needed with some BIOS settings on Auto.

    Roll from there.

    That cooler doesn't have the greatest reviews either, it seems kinda lame..It also may be failing like Sajin said.



    yes .. its kind of a lame wc aio system... but Sajin maybe right! i need to contact the pc part store either way!
    as i  read some reviews on 120mm wc aio loops that are basically a JOKE for i7's... specially mine being a hexa-core cpu!
    and found out that it is advisable to have a dual radiator at minimum for these type of cpu's..  but where would i put the dualradiator?? inside the case is a no go....
     
     
    i have the latest 2804 bios    and all these tests i made were with the latest bios! all mobo software is updated!
     
    and yes there are TONS of options  on the bios for the cpu management!
    i could blame the XMP II profile but it does not make any sense with such spikes!
     
    already applied fresh thermal paste as i stated above and..
    putted the aio pump on max and a aggressive fan profile on the radiator fan but to no avail as it reaches 85ºC maybe 90ºC temp spikes while playing AC odyssey with locked 1.27VCore  and with vcore on auto! same result! 
     
    should i go PUSH -PULL configuration?  maybe another fan?? ( have the space for  it..)  my room temp is around usually 24ºC to 27ºC and that's it!
    the temps on my 1080Ti are amazing with this thermal paste!! around 60ºC full load!
     
    as for the core ratio to sync all cores i think they were not made all to run at 4.6GHz as advertised.. but only 1 core can reach that frequency!
     
    https://imgur.com/a/m0UDqfi
     
    as for the IA AC and DC Load Line  that i have no clue what it does...
    i have this:
     
    https://imgur.com/Krl9kkj
     
    idle temps are fine! its the load temps that are the problem ... these weird temp spikes.. 
     
    https://imgur.com/wqZgfMt
     
     
    i cannot have another fried intel cpu! as i cannot afford another system at this point!
    last year in March i invested in this system 1500€! 
    that's a LOT for me! around 3 months salary!
     
     
    post edited by Miguell - 2020/06/19 07:33:09

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
    Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
    Cpu: Intel Core i7-8700
    Cpu Cooler: Cooler Master - MasterLiquid ML120L RGB
    Mobo: Asus ROG Strix Z390-H Gaming
    Vga: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
    Ram: 32GB DDR4   G.Skill - RIPJAWS V  @3200Mhz
    Sound: Hama uRage soundZbar 2.1 Unleashed - Optical
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 09:12:30 (permalink)
    Looking at your last pic where you show voltages in HWInfo, I see your CPU VCCIO voltage is way too high.
    Don't see CPU SA (system agent) voltage but suspect too high also.
    Neither should exceed 1.25 volt (safe limit) and usually don't need to be set to that max safe voltage to get stability for CPU memory controller and memory for 3200MHz RAM.
    Also, ASUS boards tend to kind of auto overclock the CPU by letting all cores boost to the CPU's max turbo over riding the stock CPU turbo multipliers by default.
    Again, from your pics I can see your CPU running at 4300 MHz on all cores and assume they are boosting to 4600MHz on all cores, this would be ASUS BIOS setting doing that.
    CPU is not overclocked so why are you using 1.27 volt for CPU?
    Higher VCCIO, SA and CPU voltages = higher CPU temps.
    The i7-8700 is a 6 core CPU and Intel used cruddy TIM between the die and heat spreader so they tended to run a little on the warm side especially when overclocked.
     

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    #7
    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 09:31:51 (permalink)
    jonkrmr
    Looking at your last pic where you show voltages in HWInfo, I see your CPU VCCIO voltage is way too high.
    Don't see CPU SA (system agent) voltage but suspect too high also.
    Neither should exceed 1.25 volt (safe limit) and usually don't need to be set to that max safe voltage to get stability for CPU memory controller and memory for 3200MHz RAM.
    Also, ASUS boards tend to kind of auto overclock the CPU by letting all cores boost to the CPU's max turbo over riding the stock CPU turbo multipliers by default.
    Again, from your pics I can see your CPU running at 4300 MHz on all cores and assume they are boosting to 4600MHz on all cores, this would be ASUS BIOS setting doing that.
    CPU is not overclocked so why are you using 1.27 volt for CPU?
    Higher VCCIO, SA and CPU voltages = higher CPU temps.
    The i7-8700 is a 6 core CPU and Intel used cruddy TIM between the die and heat spreader so they tended to run a little on the warm side especially when overclocked.
     


    the 1.27 was just a test. but i can get it lowered in BIOS obviously.  1.25v max you say?
    as for the cpu VCCIO should be how much? where do i change that?
     
    and yes its the Bios that's dealing automatically with everything right now.
    again i really really doubt all cores reach 4.6Ghz... 
     
    UPDATE:
    disabled the multi-core enchancement...  that was asus auto regulating the thing!
    (its now at intel default turbo settings)
    ran again a stress test in CPU-z  and... i was happy to see LOWER temps..  except i looked at the Ghz... and the stress test was being done at 3.8Ghz...  
    does this makes sense??
     
    gonna try AC odyssey  again with MCE off
     
    UPDATE!
    so mce is off! asus is no longer managing my cpu voltages...  i guess!
    result?
    cpu temps  during ac odyssey now to up to 80ºC max witch is more reasonable... 
    as for the voltages.. they seem the same really!
    should i still worry?  i don't expect miracles from this 120mm aio WC system...
     
    https://imgur.com/PYBtadR
     
    post edited by Miguell - 2020/06/19 10:20:10

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 10:43:28 (permalink)
    The 1.25v max safe is for the CPU VCCIO and CPU SA voltages. VCCIO and SA feed the CPU memory controller. A lot of motherboards will run these a bit on the high side by default to ensure memory stability at the rated overclock memory speeds the motherboard will supposedly support.
    voltage for these would be as low as you can go with maintaining memory\CPU stability. (I am running mine at 1.160v for both, but this will vary between motherboards and CPUs)
     
    4600MHZ is the max turbo speed on a single core of the CPU. Yes, with MCE turned on the motherboard will clock all your cores to that max turbo of 4600MHZ on all cores when under a good load.
    That is what MCE does, it over rides the default CPU core ratios and "overclocks" the CPU to the max single core turbo ratio on all cores.
    Speed stepping is what is making the CPU clock to lower speeds when not under a load or light load. This is by design. But under enough load on the CPU, it will clock all cores up to the max single core turbo multiplier when MCE is enabled.
     
    With MCE disabled, the CPU will follow its designed default core ratios and turbo ratios.
     
    Your CPU will clock to any given speed from 3.2GHz to 4.6GHz depending on the load put on the CPU. CPU-Z stress test is not putting very much load on the CPU. Not a good stress test to use to check for stability. Your games are going to push your CPU a lot harder. Especially games that are CPU heavy.
     
    AIOs are fine but really do not perform much better if at all that a good air cooler.
     
    I am able to run my 8700k at 4900MHz on all cores all the time and 3200MHz RAM with 1.25v for the CPU and 1.160v for VCCIO\SA. Can go higher but voltage required starts to jump up a lot and then heat starts to become an issue.
     
    I am not spiking over the mid-high 60s on my CPU but I am using a custom water cooling loop with a high flow pump and a 240 and 360 radiator. Am also water cooling my GPU. CPU idle temps are around 28-30 degrees depending on room temp.
     
     
    post edited by jonkrmr - 2020/06/19 10:46:07

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    #9
    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 10:51:06 (permalink)
    jonkrmr
    The 1.25v max safe is for the CPU VCCIO and CPU SA voltages. VCCIO and SA feed the CPU memory controller. A lot of motherboards will run these a bit on the high side by default to ensure memory stability at the rated overclock memory speeds the motherboard will supposedly support.
    voltage for these would be as low as you can go with maintaining memory\CPU stability. (I am running mine at 1.160v for both, but this will vary between motherboards and CPUs)
     
    4600MHZ is the max turbo speed on a single core of the CPU. Yes, with MCE turned on the motherboard will clock all your cores to that max turbo of 4600MHZ on all cores when under a good load.
    That is what MCE does, it over rides the default CPU core ratios and "overclocks" the CPU to the max single core turbo ratio on all cores.
    Speed stepping is what is making the CPU clock to lower speeds when not under a load or light load. This is by design. But under enough load on the CPU, it will clock all cores up to the max single core turbo multiplier when MCE is enabled.
     
    With MCE disabled, the CPU will follow its designed default core ratios and turbo ratios.
     
    Your CPU will clock to any given speed from 3.2GHz to 4.6GHz depending on the load put on the CPU. CPU-Z stress test is not putting very much load on the CPU. Not a good stress test to use to check for stability. Your games are going to push your CPU a lot harder. Especially games that are CPU heavy.
     
    AIOs are fine but really do not perform much better if at all that a good air cooler.
     
    I am able to run my 8700k at 4900MHz on all cores all the time and 3200MHz RAM with 1.25v for the CPU and 1.160v for VCCIO\SA. Can go higher but voltage required starts to jump up a lot and then heat starts to become an issue.
     
    I am not spiking over the mid-high 60s on my CPU but I am using a custom water cooling loop with a high flow pump and a 240 and 360 radiator. Am also water cooling my GPU. CPU idel temps are around 28-30 degrees depending on room temp.
     
     


    so bottom line...  ASUS MCE in BIOS was messing things up!


    great! 
    well its fixed now... 
     
    either way this 120mm AIO is lame... at full pump and fan speed i still reach 80ºC in AC odyssey!
    i should have made the guy install a 240 mm one!!
    and
    as i have XMP II on .. to be able to reach 3200Mhz on the RAM speed i don't think i will mess with the voltages!
     
    tho... i do feel tempted to set the vcore and VCCIO to 1.20v  as 80ºC cpu temp is still a bit on the high side!

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
    Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
    Cpu: Intel Core i7-8700
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    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 12:07:29 (permalink)
    UPDATE
    decided to mess a bit with the vcore and VCCIO both to 1.20 in BIOS and..  got up to 76ºC when playing AC odyssey!
    gonna leave this way! its fine...  and i believe all is stable! the game ran smooth! 
     
    here's the print from HWinfo64  during the gameplay
    https://imgur.com/Cn7o9eR
     
    for some reason the VCCIO is still above my 1.20v i set in Bios but i can live with 76ºC
     
    thank you all for your feedback!
     

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
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    jonkrmr
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 12:09:21 (permalink)
    MCE was not messing things up, just doing what it is supposed to do. It is just ASUS has MCE enabled by default so if you are not aware of that, you might wonder what is going on.

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    #12
    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/19 12:43:03 (permalink)
    jonkrmr
    MCE was not messing things up, just doing what it is supposed to do. It is just ASUS has MCE enabled by default so if you are not aware of that, you might wonder what is going on.


    well it was messing my temps as it was forcing all 6 cores on a frequency and voltage the manufacturer itself did not design them to do.
    hence the really high temp spikes!
    i was not aware in fact! my bad :)
     
    shutting down asus MCE in the BIOS indeed got things better.. but forcing in the bios 1.20V on vcore and VCCIO got things to an acceptable level.
    still not happy with going a bit beyond  75ºC on some scenarios but much better then reaching 90ºC like before.
     
    either way....  it was the last time i bought a 120mm AIO WC system for a CPU like this.. really lame cooling performance..
    well at least these AIO WC systems gives the system a more simple and "clean" design then those tower air-cooling blocks..
    post edited by Miguell - 2020/06/19 12:47:52

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
    Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
    Cpu: Intel Core i7-8700
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    Mobo: Asus ROG Strix Z390-H Gaming
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    Storage: 120GB SSD UV400 Kingston (OS) + 4TB HDD Toshiba X300
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    spit051261
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/26 17:22:52 (permalink)
    Why aren't you using a 360 ?
    Are you limited on case space ?

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    #14
    Miguell
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    Re: core i7 8700 with high temp "spikes" 2020/06/29 01:44:11 (permalink)
    spit051261
    Why aren't you using a 360 ?
    Are you limited on case space ?



    well.. if you check my Case model.. i am  sure i can install a 240 Radiator ( even maybe a 360... but i think it would cover ALL the front) in the front on the case with the vent flushing OUT the hot air...
    cause on the back and on the top i have no space for such radiators..
     
    it would be weird to have hot flushing out the front of the case THO it would be a much better scenario than this poor 120mm on the back!
    its a shame really... this case was not made for WC but there are mods out there and people who where able to do so using the front space of this case!
    either way ...
    lowered the voltages in BIOS to 1.20v and all seems"fine" and " normal" now... altho some spikes occur.. but with less temp..
     
    on side note: my gpu rarely goes beyond 65ºC and is on aircooling!  i don't get it with this cpu...  either way  this AIO loop from CM is no big deal... even worse then a airtower if you ask me...  at least is prettier on the eyes... and a more clean build look on the mobo! i like clean looks!
    im thinking in buying another 10 mm fan and go push pull on this 120mm one they got me in the store!
     
    in the future il sure im gonna go by a better path in terms of AIO's! thats for sure!
    no more 120mm aio's for cpus! this was a wast of 50 euros! and i didnt even wanted RGB!!  thats the last time i let some techs choose parts for my pc for me!
    post edited by Miguell - 2020/06/29 01:52:17

    Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 (BLACK)
    Display: 32" AOC Q3279VWFD8 @2560x1440@75Hz
    Cpu: Intel Core i7-8700
    Cpu Cooler: Cooler Master - MasterLiquid ML120L RGB
    Mobo: Asus ROG Strix Z390-H Gaming
    Vga: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
    Ram: 32GB DDR4   G.Skill - RIPJAWS V  @3200Mhz
    Sound: Hama uRage soundZbar 2.1 Unleashed - Optical
    Storage: 120GB SSD UV400 Kingston (OS) + 4TB HDD Toshiba X300
    Psu: SeaSonic M12 700W
    OS: W10 Pro  64-Bit  (version 1909)
    #15
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