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Helpful ReplyWhat is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors?

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Frammish
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 16:27:47 (permalink)
@xitywampus, your data looks like it is for a 3080. Also, your 3rd connector is running way low. 3080s are missing some parts and will have slightly different power requirements so it wouldn’t surprise me for you to see different loading.
 
Also, parallel wires with resistances dividing the power has to follow ohm’s law. The effect will only get worse at higher currents because the voltage drop across the connection resistances get bigger too. In cases where there are failures, the other wires have to carry more current which can put them outside of rating.
 
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Frammish
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 16:40:36 (permalink)
@jankerson, I don’t have that software or power supply to know the resolution of your measurements or the range of real-world values that display as zero. That still doesn’t change anything in what I said to craptacular.
 
The problem was you tried to help and a guy pounced ready to beat down anyone who he didn’t agree with. I was more interested in the effect. I totally get watts, amps, volts, etc. Another problem is that we are feeling around in the dark.
 
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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 16:46:07 (permalink)
Frammish
@jankerson, I don’t have that software or power supply to know the resolution of your measurements or the range of real-world values that display as zero. That still doesn’t change anything in what I said to craptacular.
 
The problem was you tried to help and a guy pounced ready to beat down anyone who he didn’t agree with. I was more interested in the effect. I totally get watts, amps, volts, etc. Another problem is that we are feeling around in the dark.
 




 
I am not an electrical engineer and never wanted to be.
 
The reason it shows zero is because it reports in AMPS, not WATTS.
 
AMPS X 12 = Watts.
 
Or 1A X 12 = 12W
 
So for it to show more than zero it would need to be pulling more than 12W per connection.
 
And we know it isn't at idle so that's why it shows zero.
 
 

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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:24:40 (permalink)
xitywampas
1: Corsair CP-9020087-NA is a single rail PSU.

2: All of the connections will draw power. Unless the circuit is opened it will draw power. Current draw will not be exactly even but will spread out across the circuit depending on individual resistance per connection. One connection will have a higher draw because the connections are not perfect and will have variation. In other words, the current will take the path of least resistance. My card shows port 2 as the high power draw as it probably has the least resistance to flow. I take these and any software numbers generated inside the OS with a grain of salt.

3. Software measuring will never be %100 accurate. If you want to see this accurately it must be an inline measurement system or an inductive one running independently of the system being measured. Everything else should be considered marginally accurate at best.




 
All modern PSUs are single rail.
 
It's some have Multi-Rail OCP so they are called Multi-Rail today. The correct term is Multi-Rail OCP, being technical about it.
 
Now some are Single Rail/Multi-Rail switchable either by a physical Switch or by software by direct hardware connection to communicate with the PSU.
 
Back in the day they used to be real hardware multi-rails though. But that was when everything really ran off the 5V and 3.3V and the 12V wasn't used really.
 
Everything runs off the 12V+ today, all the big power draw parts like the CPU/MB and Graphics card. The 5V and 3.3V are still used, but they aren't as relevant as they used to be.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by jankerson - 2020/10/29 17:29:28

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AnonymousGuy
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:31:43 (permalink)
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.
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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:34:55 (permalink)
AnonymousGuy
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.




 
Yeah, exactly, about the AXI.
 
I did actually pull one of the 8 Pins and it won't even start so all 3 have to be connected for it to run.

i9 9900K @ 5.0 GHz, NH D15, 32 GB GSKILL Trident Z RGB, AORUS Z390 MASTER, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steel Series APEX PRO, Logitech Gaming Pro Mouse, CM Master Case 5, Corsair AXI 1600W.
 
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:36:01 (permalink)
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.




 
Yeah, exactly, about the AXI.
 
I did actually pull one of the 8 Pins and it won't even start so all 3 have to be connected for it to run.


I believe that's a software BIOS thing with the sense pins on the connector.  I think you could ground the sense pin on the connector and see if it actually boots up still?

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.
Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x Gigabyte 3080Ti, AX1500i @ 240V.
LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.
Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.
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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:39:38 (permalink)
AnonymousGuy
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.




 
Yeah, exactly, about the AXI.
 
I did actually pull one of the 8 Pins and it won't even start so all 3 have to be connected for it to run.


I believe that's a software BIOS thing with the sense pins on the connector.  I think you could ground the sense pin on the connector and see if it actually boots up still?




 
I am not going to try it. 
 
 

i9 9900K @ 5.0 GHz, NH D15, 32 GB GSKILL Trident Z RGB, AORUS Z390 MASTER, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steel Series APEX PRO, Logitech Gaming Pro Mouse, CM Master Case 5, Corsair AXI 1600W.
 
i7 8086K, AORUS Z370 Gaming 5, 16GB GSKILL RJV 3200, EVGA 2080TI FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, (2)SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500 GB, Acer Predator XB1 XB271HU, Corsair HXI 850W.
 
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AnonymousGuy
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:48:02 (permalink)
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.




 
Yeah, exactly, about the AXI.
 
I did actually pull one of the 8 Pins and it won't even start so all 3 have to be connected for it to run.


I believe that's a software BIOS thing with the sense pins on the connector.  I think you could ground the sense pin on the connector and see if it actually boots up still?




 
I am not going to try it. 
 
 




 
:)  Yeah it answers the question that all 3 connectors have to be plugged in, but you could probably really run the card with only (2 x 8 pin) or (2x8pin + 1x6pin) if you got around the sense pin.  Could you do (1x8pin + 1x6pin)?  Maybe...probably....not recommended.  I think the connectors are significantly underrated in ATX spec on good modern PSUs.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.
Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x Gigabyte 3080Ti, AX1500i @ 240V.
LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.
Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.
Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA 3060 || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.
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#39
xitywampas
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:53:33 (permalink)
jankerson
xitywampas
1: Corsair CP-9020087-NA is a single rail PSU.

2: All of the connections will draw power. Unless the circuit is opened it will draw power. Current draw will not be exactly even but will spread out across the circuit depending on individual resistance per connection. One connection will have a higher draw because the connections are not perfect and will have variation. In other words, the current will take the path of least resistance. My card shows port 2 as the high power draw as it probably has the least resistance to flow. I take these and any software numbers generated inside the OS with a grain of salt.

3. Software measuring will never be %100 accurate. If you want to see this accurately it must be an inline measurement system or an inductive one running independently of the system being measured. Everything else should be considered marginally accurate at best.




 
All modern PSUs are single rail.
 
It's some have Multi-Rail OCP so they are called Multi-Rail today. The correct term is Multi-Rail OCP, being technical about it.
 
Now some are Single Rail/Multi-Rail switchable either by a physical Switch or by software by direct hardware connection to communicate with the PSU.
 
Back in the day they used to be real hardware multi-rails though. But that was when everything really ran off the 5V and 3.3V and the 12V wasn't used really.
 
Everything runs off the 12V+ today, all the big power draw parts like the CPU/MB and Graphics card. The 5V and 3.3V are still used, but they aren't as relevant as they used to be.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


I don't think all PSU are single rail but I know most are. I still have a couple of true multi-rail PSUs laying around, but yes you are correct about that. The ones I have are over 10 years old.
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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:54:32 (permalink)
AnonymousGuy
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
jankerson
AnonymousGuy
Here's my guess: 3 of the 8 pins are probably always connected to the voltage regulators.  It's completely possible that one of those pins takes most of the load at idle (the AXi series current monitoring doesn't work below 3A or so, so it may show "0") and then the other 8+8 takes more as the voltage regulator ramps up.  There is no "switching" of the connectors on/off.
 
There's no way of knowing or conclusively saying that all 3 are always balance...unless you know how the power planes are set up.  They're not always connected on the PCB.  You could simply try running the card with 2x8 pins and seeing if it's "OK"...it probably would be.




 
Yeah, exactly, about the AXI.
 
I did actually pull one of the 8 Pins and it won't even start so all 3 have to be connected for it to run.


I believe that's a software BIOS thing with the sense pins on the connector.  I think you could ground the sense pin on the connector and see if it actually boots up still?




 
I am not going to try it. 
 
 




 
:)  Yeah it answers the question that all 3 connectors have to be plugged in, but you could probably really run the card with only (2 x 8 pin) or (2x8pin + 1x6pin) if you got around the sense pin.  Could you do (1x8pin + 1x6pin)?  Maybe...probably....not recommended.  I think the connectors are significantly underrated in ATX spec on good modern PSUs.




 
I don't know what the tolerance is on the connectors before they would actually melt.
 
I think running 450W to 500W through one 8 Pin would likely melt it.
 
From my understanding there are no industry standards on PSUs so it's a crapshoot.  

i9 9900K @ 5.0 GHz, NH D15, 32 GB GSKILL Trident Z RGB, AORUS Z390 MASTER, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steel Series APEX PRO, Logitech Gaming Pro Mouse, CM Master Case 5, Corsair AXI 1600W.
 
i7 8086K, AORUS Z370 Gaming 5, 16GB GSKILL RJV 3200, EVGA 2080TI FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, (2)SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500 GB, Acer Predator XB1 XB271HU, Corsair HXI 850W.
 
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jankerson
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 17:56:08 (permalink)
xitywampas
jankerson
xitywampas
1: Corsair CP-9020087-NA is a single rail PSU.

2: All of the connections will draw power. Unless the circuit is opened it will draw power. Current draw will not be exactly even but will spread out across the circuit depending on individual resistance per connection. One connection will have a higher draw because the connections are not perfect and will have variation. In other words, the current will take the path of least resistance. My card shows port 2 as the high power draw as it probably has the least resistance to flow. I take these and any software numbers generated inside the OS with a grain of salt.

3. Software measuring will never be %100 accurate. If you want to see this accurately it must be an inline measurement system or an inductive one running independently of the system being measured. Everything else should be considered marginally accurate at best.




 
All modern PSUs are single rail.
 
It's some have Multi-Rail OCP so they are called Multi-Rail today. The correct term is Multi-Rail OCP, being technical about it.
 
Now some are Single Rail/Multi-Rail switchable either by a physical Switch or by software by direct hardware connection to communicate with the PSU.
 
Back in the day they used to be real hardware multi-rails though. But that was when everything really ran off the 5V and 3.3V and the 12V wasn't used really.
 
Everything runs off the 12V+ today, all the big power draw parts like the CPU/MB and Graphics card. The 5V and 3.3V are still used, but they aren't as relevant as they used to be.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


I don't think all PSU are single rail but I know most are. I still have a couple of true multi-rail PSUs laying around, but yes you are correct about that. The ones I have are over 10 years old.




 
Yeah, I think some server PSUs are still true Multi-Rail.
 
 

i9 9900K @ 5.0 GHz, NH D15, 32 GB GSKILL Trident Z RGB, AORUS Z390 MASTER, EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steel Series APEX PRO, Logitech Gaming Pro Mouse, CM Master Case 5, Corsair AXI 1600W.
 
i7 8086K, AORUS Z370 Gaming 5, 16GB GSKILL RJV 3200, EVGA 2080TI FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB, (2)SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500 GB, Acer Predator XB1 XB271HU, Corsair HXI 850W.
 
i7 8700K, AORUS Z370 Ultra Gaming, 16GB 16GB DDR4 3000, EVGA 1080Ti FTW3 Ultra, Samsung 960 EVO 250GB, Corsair HX 850W.
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EVGATech_DanielM
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Re: What is the order of power draw across the 3x power connectors? 2020/10/29 18:51:06 (permalink)
People keep throwing personal attacks will go on time out. 
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