Afterburner
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They must have figured... "Meh, the world is coming to an end anyway. Why not throw junk out there". This is NOT good for Toyota. Ford and now Chevy are getting better ratings on their comparable models... What a turn of events... http://money.cnn.com/2012...camry-iihs-crash-test/
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kram36
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/20 20:14:58
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GM is putting out some very nice vehicles as does Ford and Chrysler.
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wrinvert
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/20 20:28:25
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Rudster816
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/20 22:37:59
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Afterburner
They must have figured... "Meh, the world is coming to an end anyway. Why not throw junk out there".
This is NOT good for Toyota. Ford and now Chevy are getting better ratings on their comparable models... What a turn of events...
http://money.cnn.com/2012...camry-iihs-crash-test/
I would take any subjective test like that with a grain of salt. Trying to take something as complex as car crash survivability and boiling it down to ratings like "poor" and "good" introduces large amounts of subjectivity. I'm not saying the tests are bad, but don't treat them like they are some kind of definitive test. I'd hardly consider the top selling car in America 'junk'. All cars have gotten much safer in the past decade or so, and anyone replacing an older model with a new car will receive a safety boost. Considering the apparent unlikeness of the crash scenario, I wouldn't put much emphasis on the one test.
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1ceTr0n 
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 00:20:52
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Looks like they've hit a wall with safety developments
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 05:51:28
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Rudster816
Afterburner
They must have figured... "Meh, the world is coming to an end anyway. Why not throw junk out there".
This is NOT good for Toyota. Ford and now Chevy are getting better ratings on their comparable models... What a turn of events...
http://money.cnn.com/2012...camry-iihs-crash-test/
I would take any subjective test like that with a grain of salt. Trying to take something as complex as car crash survivability and boiling it down to ratings like "poor" and "good" introduces large amounts of subjectivity. I'm not saying the tests are bad, but don't treat them like they are some kind of definitive test.
I'd hardly consider the top selling car in America 'junk'. All cars have gotten much safer in the past decade or so, and anyone replacing an older model with a new car will receive a safety boost. Considering the apparent unlikeness of the crash scenario, I wouldn't put much emphasis on the one test.
Um... Totally disagree with you. If it was not for these types of tests how the heck would you know how well a vehicle has improved in safety? Good Lord man. Think before you respond... LOL!!! This is one area I have extended knowledge in. As an example... This is a newer test. To make a 12 page report into a small paragraph... The test was another 18" ish to the right. More towards the center of the hood. Most vehicle manufactures have figured out how to master that. What the Insurance Industry found was folks swerving to avoid collisions and not hitting with as much of the vehicle as the test was testing for. They also found that folks drift more often now than before. As a result, deaths, major medical situations and the likes still happened./ Even with all the electronic items, air bags and "Cages" vehicles have today. Bottom line... These tests help us all as Manufacture find ways to best protect the occupants. Definitely not the end all of anything, just a tool demonstrating real life results...
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Porpoise Hork
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 06:34:17
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wrinvert
kram36
GM is putting out some very nice vehicles as does Ford and Chrysler.
yeah gm is putting some awesome trucks missing hood latches....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/us-gm-recall-idUSBRE8BJ0S720121220
What makes that even worse is GM's monthly truck production across all its plants fluctuates between 29 and 100K depending on the month. So let us say this happened across all their truck only production plants, and call it a rough average of 64,500 units produced a month, that's at lease 2 1/4 months that not only did assembly line workers not install them but that QC completely failed to spot it and correct it. That is pretty sad when you really think on it. 1ceTr0n
Looks like they've hit a wall with safety developments
Why yes it does... 
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 06:59:16
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Well this is not a surprise because Toyota sucks just like Honda and Hyundai. Also Ford is just kicking ass when it comes to innovation with their vehicles. I am just amazed just how creative and brilliant it has become. Ford FTW.
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Rudster816
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 12:55:05
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Afterburner
Um... Totally disagree with you. If it was not for these types of tests how the heck would you know how well a vehicle has improved in safety? Good Lord man. Think before you respond...
LOL!!!
This is one area I have extended knowledge in. As an example... This is a newer test. To make a 12 page report into a small paragraph...
The test was another 18" ish to the right. More towards the center of the hood. Most vehicle manufactures have figured out how to master that. What the Insurance Industry found was folks swerving to avoid collisions and not hitting with as much of the vehicle as the test was testing for. They also found that folks drift more often now than before. As a result, deaths, major medical situations and the likes still happened./ Even with all the electronic items, air bags and "Cages" vehicles have today.
Bottom line... These tests help us all as Manufacture find ways to best protect the occupants. Definitely not the end all of anything, just a tool demonstrating real life results...
We've gotten to know that cars are safer through a consensus based on many tests (not just one) and empirical evidence. Tests are not always proof of anything. Many people to this day believe that polygraph machines can actually detect lies, when in the science behind it so garbage they aren't admissible in court (despite a lot of other shady forensic "science" being admissible). You need to look at all the tests, not just one test that has the potential to be an outlier. You do bring up a good point about the insurance companies. Auto manufactures have a perverse incentive to neglect safety in areas which aren't tested and needlessly improve safety in the areas that are tested.
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blacksapphire08
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 12:57:55
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kram36
GM is putting out some very nice vehicles as does Ford and Chrysler.
They'd have an even better lineup if they didnt kill off Saturn, morons. They should have at least brought those models over to a different brand.
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wrinvert
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 13:52:10
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
Well this is not a surprise because Toyota sucks just like Honda and Hyundai. Also Ford is just kicking ass when it comes to innovation with their vehicles. I am just amazed just how creative and brilliant it has become. Ford FTW.
im not even going to go into debating with you on this. ill only say of my parents 4 fords 3 lost transmissions(2 explorers and a windstar) and 1 burnt to the ground (escape) on a recall item that had not been release to the public yet. side note my tundra and lexus gs350 have never had an issue.
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 16:33:18
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wrinvert
HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
Well this is not a surprise because Toyota sucks just like Honda and Hyundai. Also Ford is just kicking ass when it comes to innovation with their vehicles. I am just amazed just how creative and brilliant it has become. Ford FTW.
im not even going to go into debating with you on this. ill only say of my parents 4 fords 3 lost transmissions(2 explorers and a windstar) and 1 burnt to the ground (escape) on a recall item that had not been release to the public yet. side note my tundra and lexus gs350 have never had an issue.
Actually, Ford passed Toyota in 2007... Ford just got passed back this year and fell to 11th. "Supposedly" because of the small car trans and Navigation touch screen issues... Anything built by man can and will fail. But overall, all the top Manufactures are leap years ahead of where they had been just 15 years ago in safety and quality. Funny thing... Just spoke with an adjuster that had yet another "Official" throttle sticking issue on a Camry. This was the Insurance Companies official determination eight months in the making. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Only question is will we be the ones reading/hearing about it or the ones experiencing it...
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 16:41:37
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Rudster816
Afterburner
Um... Totally disagree with you. If it was not for these types of tests how the heck would you know how well a vehicle has improved in safety? Good Lord man. Think before you respond...
LOL!!!
This is one area I have extended knowledge in. As an example... This is a newer test. To make a 12 page report into a small paragraph...
The test was another 18" ish to the right. More towards the center of the hood. Most vehicle manufactures have figured out how to master that. What the Insurance Industry found was folks swerving to avoid collisions and not hitting with as much of the vehicle as the test was testing for. They also found that folks drift more often now than before. As a result, deaths, major medical situations and the likes still happened./ Even with all the electronic items, air bags and "Cages" vehicles have today.
Bottom line... These tests help us all as Manufacture find ways to best protect the occupants. Definitely not the end all of anything, just a tool demonstrating real life results...
We've gotten to know that cars are safer through a consensus based on many tests (not just one) and empirical evidence. Tests are not always proof of anything. Many people to this day believe that polygraph machines can actually detect lies, when in the science behind it so garbage they aren't admissible in court (despite a lot of other shady forensic "science" being admissible).
You need to look at all the tests, not just one test that has the potential to be an outlier. You do bring up a good point about the insurance companies. Auto manufactures have a perverse incentive to neglect safety in areas which aren't tested and needlessly improve safety in the areas that are tested.
Now that is a far more realistic response.  And yes, tests like this helps and are proof positive. And yet are only a portion of significant data collection needed. Now, as for the test specifically not having any value on it's own. I offer you this thought... If you hit a wall like this test demonstrates, and the tire pushes into the "Human space" causing massive damage to loss of limb, that becomes fact and not acceptable at the speeds being tested. Like it or not. This is why so many engines/trans-axles go under a vehicle now instead of into the "Cage" in a front end accident. The original 18"-26" test and head on tests helped with this process... Designs must be tested. Just because an engineer designs it, does not mean other parts of the vehicle or forces will allow for the intended results...
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bigbrag
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 16:44:30
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All I can say is I love my foreign cars lol. My acura and Lexus both have high miles and zero issues. Both were also salvage titles which should make them more likely to have issues as well lol. The lexus in particular was airborn for 100ft before landing on its front end (original owner came out without a scratch). The mechanic who repaired it and sold it to me said it "hit a deer" lol. Funnily enough my brother-in-law is a manager at an auto repair shop and recognized the car because it came to them and they deemed it totalled, so I was able to get the complete write up about the car and even contact the original owner for the story. Hope I don't get in a wreck though, as I doubt it has airbags intact.
post edited by bigbrag - 2012/12/21 16:52:10
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AzN-SoLjA
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 17:17:37
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Wow that will buff right out.
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aflackiller
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 19:00:02
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Look at it next year and see if its like that. Look who is the top 3 in reliability scion toyota and lexus if i remember correct. As far as the throttle sticking on toyotas all but a hand full of them has came back as driver fault not toyota double stacking the mats and also not hitting the brake but the gas instead the little computers does wonders when it records all that stuff. I've worked for toyota for 6 years and i've seen it myself when they come in and complain and not listen when we tell them to remove the mats plus now if you hit the brakes it cuts the throttle out.
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seth89
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 19:52:00
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Save your time and money and buy a Hyundai.
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XrayMan
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 21:39:24
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seth89
Save your time and money and buy a Hyundai.
Ewwww! No way. 
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Kanti
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/21 23:26:58
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Hyundai is legit. I don't drive one but I wouldn't be ashamed to either. They caught a bad rap back in the day similar to how Jack in the Box did with it's food poisoning scare and it took years for it to recover.
As far as Toyota goes, I'm not an expert, and maybe standards have slipped, but from what I saw 2 years ago the Japanese standards at Toyota were the highest in the industry. Perhaps something got lost in translation (literally) and mistakes were made in the manufacturing plants in I'm guessing America. Many times malfunctioning items are locked to a specific plant or country due to procedures not being carried out properly. I'd go into details as to how the Japanese standard is shipped from Japan to training nodes around the world where employees from neighboring countries go to learn the way of the samurai, but It's rather complex; but quite interesting.
If for some reason this latest model is in fact junk, I won't consider it a reason to discount the brand from here on out. I might skip a model or two, but I won't say I'd never buy Toyota again. There is a reason it was the (is?) the number one auto manufacturer in the world. Between natural disasters and growth that grew faster than it's standard could travel, the company has hit snags that dropped it to the #2 slot, but regardless Toyota is a good brand.
To disregard Toyota because of these results would similar to never buying an EVGA card ever again because it released some terrible motherboards with mindboggling terrible functionality; but that's another story for another thread.
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kaninja
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 00:39:51
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$2500.
Full cage and 5 point harnesses. If we really wanted super safe vehicles coming off the production lines this is what the additional cost would be.
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 01:10:45
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kaninja
$2500.
Full cage and 5 point harnesses. If we really wanted super safe vehicles coming off the production lines this is what the additional cost would be.
Yup. But did you know Ford actually builds built in frame role cages in now days in their F-150 series trucks. So there is actually a automaker that puts in built in cages for the consumer.
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seth89
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 06:47:52
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XrayMan
seth89
Save your time and money and buy a Hyundai.
Ewwww! No way.
next time youre in the market for a new car go look at them. They are rock solid, good looking, safe, and come with a 10 year 100,000 warranty. I had a 2008 SantaFe and it sold me on all my future car purchases. ( aside from Jeep ). Kia is the same company. the newer stuff from Hyundai and Kia is hands down the best stuff out right now.
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 07:03:42
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The last Hyundai I had was a Elantra which was a peace of crap. Almost everything about it was so cheap. The stock factory paint job is so horrible it started pealing off. Also my power windows always went out as well as the radio, and AC/heating. At least Hyundai has better customer service than KIA.
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 07:30:04
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
kaninja
$2500.
Full cage and 5 point harnesses. If we really wanted super safe vehicles coming off the production lines this is what the additional cost would be.
Yup. But did you know Ford actually builds built in frame role cages in now days in their F-150 series trucks. So there is actually a automaker that puts in built in cages for the consumer.
FYI.... Chevy did it first, and still is. Heck my wife's 2000 Impala had it... And in other news... Little known fact... Are you all aware that your windshield is actually considered to be a "Safety" device, just like Air Bags and Seat Belts are? This is why it is very wise to fix the chips and replace cracked ones... Trust me on this one... Speak to an expert in the field of Automotive Engineering and you will never again leave a chip on the Windshield... Not only that... But this is one area that more time/effort/money has been spent than in interior designing... Take the Ford Company for an example... The low end models of all their vehicles have the cheaper windshields in them. Mid grade up have their latest tech. Quick test... Test drive the low end model on the HWY... Then get in the Mid grade or higher... Notice how much more quiet the interior sound is? The mid grades up have the newer tech that includes anywhere from a single to multiple layers of added material. One layer is sound deadening, another is impact fibers (Will hold a good sized object in the now destroyed windshield instead of it entering the cabin) and so on. Heck even a few have the added "Sun screen" effect... 
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kougar
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 07:37:03
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Afterburner
They must have figured... "Meh, the world is coming to an end anyway. Why not throw junk out there".
This is NOT good for Toyota. Ford and now Chevy are getting better ratings on their comparable models... What a turn of events...
http://money.cnn.com/2012...camry-iihs-crash-test/
Or, maybe this was the first year such a test was included? This is the first time the 25% or "edge" on frontal impact was added to the tests. Which is also why the IIHS has added a new Top Safety Pick + rating that includes this test. I'm honestly glad to see this kind of test finally being included at the mainstream level, because sites like ConsumerReports have tested vehicles in this manner before and found many vehicles fared far worse... It's also probably worth mentioning this is why the IIHS still gives the Camry and Prius a Top Safety Pick award. So basically, the cars didn't change. Only the tests to measure them did, which implies something completely different to your post. 
post edited by kougar - 2012/12/22 07:38:30
 Have water, will cool.
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 07:48:21
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kaninja
$2500.
Full cage and 5 point harnesses. If we really wanted super safe vehicles coming off the production lines this is what the additional cost would be.
While I once thought this to be true, and literally did this to all my trucks and Jeeps... This is only partially true. Adding this to an already engineered vehicle has a limited desired effect. Adding the cage to the vehicle as a part of the original design, solid! Here it the problem... Adding after the fact... Welds are done, drilling holes is required, and this weakens the integrity of the original design. You would be amazed at how few actually have the know how on how to do this correctly. And after an accident, we consistently see the bolt holes and welding points adding stress loads to points on the vehicles that had never been designed to take those loads. With very unfortunate results. Next issue... The "Cabin" is now reduced in size, the engineered crumple effect to protect the "Human" has been compromised or even eliminated. And we see far more injury as a result. After all... More often than not the curtain air bags have to be deactivated because the new cage is in front of them (As an example). Now as far as the harness... The true effectiveness of these is when they are used in conjunction with an "Engineered" cage. Just adding it to an every day car has little real life value. Lastly... One has to understand... Many deaths in a vehicle accident is the result of the sudden impact and our internal organs becoming dislodged and/or turned to goo. Not to mention the brain stem disconnecting... A vehicle must be designed to take the impact, move the residual energy away from the "Cabin" and pay the ultimate sacrifice. Like the Lexis story a few posts up. Think about that...
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Afterburner
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 07:50:57
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kougar
Or, maybe this was the first year such a test was included?
This is the first time the 25% or "edge" on frontal impact was added to the tests. Which is also why the IIHS has added a new Top Safety Pick + rating that includes this test. I'm honestly glad to see this kind of test finally being included at the mainstream level, because sites like ConsumerReports have tested vehicles in this manner before and found many vehicles fared far worse...
It's also probably worth mentioning this is why the IIHS still gives the Camry and Prius a Top Safety Pick award. So basically, the cars didn't change. Only the tests to measure them did, which implies something completely different to your post.
I agree this test is long over due. They had to study it for a few years before adding it. And to be fair. I "Repeated" the articles heading. That is not my own
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kram36
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 08:01:41
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kougar
Afterburner
They must have figured... "Meh, the world is coming to an end anyway. Why not throw junk out there".
This is NOT good for Toyota. Ford and now Chevy are getting better ratings on their comparable models... What a turn of events...
http://money.cnn.com/2012...camry-iihs-crash-test/
Or, maybe this was the first year such a test was included?
This is the first time the 25% or "edge" on frontal impact was added to the tests. Which is also why the IIHS has added a new Top Safety Pick + rating that includes this test. I'm honestly glad to see this kind of test finally being included at the mainstream level, because sites like ConsumerReports have tested vehicles in this manner before and found many vehicles fared far worse...
It's also probably worth mentioning this is why the IIHS still gives the Camry and Prius a Top Safety Pick award. So basically, the cars didn't change. Only the tests to measure them did, which implies something completely different to your post.
Whether this test is new or old does not negate the results. Looks like the car does need to change. 
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kram36
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 08:06:57
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
The last Hyundai I had was a Elantra which was a peace of crap. Almost everything about it was so cheap. The stock factory paint job is so horrible it started pealing off. Also my power windows always went out as well as the radio, and AC/heating. At least Hyundai has better customer service than KIA.
Honesty is the best policy, a lot of foreign car owners won't admit their purchasing mistake/issues. GM, Ford and Chrysler are on the top of the best vehicles around today.
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HAZMAN_THE_GREAT
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Re:Toyota Camry gets slammed in new crash test
2012/12/22 08:16:28
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Afterburner
FYI.... Chevy did it first, and still is. Heck my wife's 2000 Impala had it...
And in other news...
Little known fact... Are you all aware that your windshield is actually considered to be a "Safety" device, just like Air Bags and Seat Belts are? This is why it is very wise to fix the chips and replace cracked ones... Trust me on this one... Speak to an expert in the field of Automotive Engineering and you will never again leave a chip on the Windshield...
Not only that... But this is one area that more time/effort/money has been spent than in interior designing... Take the Ford Company for an example... The low end models of all their vehicles have the cheaper windshields in them. Mid grade up have their latest tech. Quick test... Test drive the low end model on the HWY... Then get in the Mid grade or higher... Notice how much more quiet the interior sound is? The mid grades up have the newer tech that includes anywhere from a single to multiple layers of added material. One layer is sound deadening, another is impact fibers (Will hold a good sized object in the now destroyed windshield instead of it entering the cabin) and so on. Heck even a few have the added "Sun screen" effect...
WOW I did not know all that about a windshield. Thanks for the input. So the quieter your car is, the better your windshield is for safety. Well unfortunately I cant tell, because my pipes are to loud. Well for windshields to play a major importance in safety, I would of never expected automakers would have cheaper windshields in their lower class models. That's messed up that they do that. Its like how automakers are cheap when it comes to insulation and the weather stripping for your car.
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