jeffmd
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 00:51:40
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The problem is... a whole new market was created for gpu cards that people with a lot of money invest in and is fed off by a) the stupidity of humans and b) the growing demand for money transactions that can happen out side of official eyes.
Thankfully this only causes a problem when a new crypto gains popularity. But when it happens, there is plenty of A and B to go around and fuel the fire.
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crazyjohnny
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 01:58:56
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12 months after the official announcement of 30 series and there still no decent chance to score a new GPU near MSRP. In my opinion I think this situation is unprecedented and of course, a series of factors led to this, not just mining. I have my hopes up for Ethereum 2.0 that will temper the demand from miners, as to LHR cards, they are sold cheaper but there is still long way to MSRP. Unfortunately, there is a possible workaround the hash limiter that unlocks 70% of its mining potential, so they might be also targeted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfOkK4ySxvA
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Hoggle
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 02:46:51
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I am kind of shocked that supply and demand hasn't evened out yet on eBay. What I have expecting is the resellers to have so much competition from one another that they have to be the lowest until the profit over MSRP makes it pointless for most of them.
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ps335
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 02:48:24
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if iphone lines/waiting outside of the apple store is almost gone, so will the GPU demand drop eventually. there is only so many people in this world who are willing to drop 2k-3k on 3090.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 07:19:31
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ps335
if iphone lines/waiting outside of the apple store is almost gone, so will the GPU demand drop eventually. there is only so many people in this world who are willing to drop 2k-3k on 3090.
True about the 3090, but there are way more people with money to spend on the rest of the 3000 series. And, Apple releases a new phone model pretty much every year, so that’s definitely not a good comparison. Apple fanboys line up each year to get a new phone, but the difference between iPhones and GPUs is iPhones pretty much have one audience to sell to. Crypto screwed over the GPU core audience big time and demand isn’t likely to drop anytime in the near future. In fact, I’m willing to bet there will be a 4000 series release in which supply still hasn’t caught up with demand. At this point, crypto needs to be done using some other method to alleviate the demand or done away with altogether. The former is the more likely scenario, but I wouldn’t be distraught if the latter happened.
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donta1979
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 07:31:36
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Its not just scalpers to miners, you also have to thank apple at this point for buying up most of the chip fab production, most of the premium silicon to other components. Then the fire that hit the auto industry part of the fabs. Then you have lots of people deciding to become PC gamers all of a sudden.
If you really want a 30 series card, find a prebuilt/custom order system builder that has the card you want in stock without a huge delay, have a system built and get it that way. Its that or lurk the stock drop discords and hope. Yet you may not get the brand you want as its a mad dash to get a card the second it drops into stock. Its that or pay the scalper prices, or the raised prices over msrp from the miners used stock that they know they can charge a little to a lot over MSRP for. It is what it is, also thanks to chips being in nearly everything now, Its not just cpu's and gpu's for computers anymore, tv's, cars, fridges, cable boxes, stuff around the house, security alarms, tablets, phones, it all plays a roll. Then of course the whole who buys out most of the fab production and what is going on at the fabs, to even crypto.
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ObscureEmpyre
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 09:18:05
(permalink)
donta1979
Its not just scalpers to miners, you also have to thank apple at this point for buying up most of the chip fab production, most of the premium silicon to other components. Then the fire that hit the auto industry part of the fabs. Then you have lots of people deciding to become PC gamers all of a sudden.
If you really want a 30 series card, find a prebuilt/custom order system builder that has the card you want in stock without a huge delay, have a system built and get it that way. Its that or lurk the stock drop discords and hope. Yet you may not get the brand you want as its a mad dash to get a card the second it drops into stock. Its that or pay the scalper prices, or the raised prices over msrp from the miners used stock that they know they can charge a little to a lot over MSRP for. It is what it is, also thanks to chips being in nearly everything now, Its not just cpu's and gpu's for computers anymore, tv's, cars, fridges, cable boxes, stuff around the house, security alarms, tablets, phones, it all plays a roll. Then of course the whole who buys out most of the fab production and what is going on at the fabs, to even crypto.
Apple can eat it at this point, and this is coming from someone typing this on an iPhone. I just don’t see the need to roll out a new model phone every year considering there haven’t been leaps and bounds of performance, generationally, from one phone to the next in recent years. Personally, I get a new phone when my current one stops holding much of a charge, and that seems to be roughly every 4 years or so. When it comes to electronics, industries across the board are in a bad way, as you pointed out. Heck, I had to wait nearly 5 months for a Marantz AV7706, and I got lucky because the distributor my dealer goes through was able to snag one. Thankfully, home theater equipment really doesn’t need to be upgraded all that often. Still, that’s just one example of the many shortages the world is facing. Governments and companies really need to invest more in recycling and stop leaving it up to the consumer to figure it out. I’m someone who understands that precious metals are just that, and not exactly the easiest things to come by, so I try to recycle what I can. It’s not always easy though. Where I live, I have to go out of my way to recycle batteries and other products such as CFL lightbulbs. It’s annoying and I’m willing to bet most people just throw such things away. Very wasteful.
 
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kevinc313
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 10:05:31
(permalink)
Don't get me started on "Smart Fridges" and IoT in general. Why would you want a completely unnecessary embedded computer on a critical appliance? What's next, a computer on your furnace and hot water heater? Big tech shuts off your heat and hot water if you don't pay your subscription service?
I can see how smart TV's are great for the ultra casual user, but even a $400 PC/HTPC will provide a far better "cord cutter" experience on a big screen for the lay person who is competent in Windows.
Any car made in the last 20-30 years or so has a basic onboard EFI control computer, nav and bluetooth is very handy, but you don't need an advanced PC unless it's a special onboard entertainment system. I blame the shortage of car chips on designers making IC's that are too advanced using too premium of silicon and fabs shutting down older lines too soon.
New phones are nice but their advances have stagnated. Yeah there are some special use cases and batteries are hard to replace so there is some disposablity. I've got a high end phone from 2017 that I bought in 2018, no vendor bloatware or forced updates and it runs great. Keep it plugged in when not moving aroun and disable random apps, the battery has been fine. Should be able to get 5 years out of a phone, many people are.
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mr_x170
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 10:21:20
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bill1024
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 12:49:11
(permalink)
kevinc313
Don't get me started on "Smart Fridges" and IoT in general. Why would you want a completely unnecessary embedded computer on a critical appliance? What's next, a computer on your furnace and hot water heater? Big tech shuts off your heat and hot water if you don't pay your subscription service?
I can see how smart TV's are great for the ultra casual user, but even a $400 PC/HTPC will provide a far better "cord cutter" experience on a big screen for the lay person who is competent in Windows.
Any car made in the last 20-30 years or so has a basic onboard EFI control computer, nav and bluetooth is very handy, but you don't need an advanced PC unless it's a special onboard entertainment system. I blame the shortage of car chips on designers making IC's that are too advanced using too premium of silicon and fabs shutting down older lines too soon.
New phones are nice but their advances have stagnated. Yeah there are some special use cases and batteries are hard to replace so there is some disposablity. I've got a high end phone from 2017 that I bought in 2018, no vendor bloatware or forced updates and it runs great. Keep it plugged in when not moving aroun and disable random apps, the battery has been fine. Should be able to get 5 years out of a phone, many people are.
Hate to tell you but there have been solid state boards in furnaces and HWH now for well over 20 years. And thermostats that connect on line for many years too.
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife 
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kevinc313
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 15:36:47
(permalink)
bill1024
kevinc313
Don't get me started on "Smart Fridges" and IoT in general. Why would you want a completely unnecessary embedded computer on a critical appliance? What's next, a computer on your furnace and hot water heater? Big tech shuts off your heat and hot water if you don't pay your subscription service?
I can see how smart TV's are great for the ultra casual user, but even a $400 PC/HTPC will provide a far better "cord cutter" experience on a big screen for the lay person who is competent in Windows.
Any car made in the last 20-30 years or so has a basic onboard EFI control computer, nav and bluetooth is very handy, but you don't need an advanced PC unless it's a special onboard entertainment system. I blame the shortage of car chips on designers making IC's that are too advanced using too premium of silicon and fabs shutting down older lines too soon.
New phones are nice but their advances have stagnated. Yeah there are some special use cases and batteries are hard to replace so there is some disposablity. I've got a high end phone from 2017 that I bought in 2018, no vendor bloatware or forced updates and it runs great. Keep it plugged in when not moving aroun and disable random apps, the battery has been fine. Should be able to get 5 years out of a phone, many people are.
Hate to tell you but there have been solid state boards in furnaces and HWH now for well over 20 years.
And thermostats that connect on line for many years too.
I'm well aware of simple electronics being in all appliances, obviously I'm talking about embedded IoT style computers. Online computerized thermostats are a hot mess, anyone who installs one is an idiot.
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jaredbyoung
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 15:49:55
(permalink)
I forgot to mention in my pervious post another factor driving scarcity.
Streamers and YouTubers, but to an even greater degree, wannabe streamers and YouTubers.
PC gaming was declared dead many years ago. Consoles could do everything PCs could do as far as gaming but came in a much more user-friendly package and at lower prices to boot. There were professional E-Sports popping up and many of them operated on consoles.
Then there was a massive rise in the popularity of YouTube celebrities and Streamers. A small handful of which make a lot of money, but there is also a sizable group that makes enough to live comfortably on. People started seeing that and got stars in their eyes. You need decent PC equipment to make YouTube content or to stream.
E-Sports moved almost exclusively to PC.
PC gaming is more popular than ever. Working from home is more popular than ever. People trying to make it as a streamer or YouTuber is exploding.
You can blame all of this on miners and scalpers, but if you entered the PC market in the last 5 or so years you are every bit as much the "problem" as any other group.
I built my first PC in 1993. I've built every PC I've owned since. I started mining because I had a box of "old" GPUs that I had replaced with 30 series GPUs. I didn't buy my first three 30 series GPUs with any intention of mining on them, but once I saw the passive income I could make using what I already had because I'm a gamer it was pretty cool. I really don't think I'm the problem here.
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kevinc313
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 16:14:00
(permalink)
jaredbyoung
I forgot to mention in my pervious post another factor driving scarcity.
Streamers and YouTubers, but to an even greater degree, wannabe streamers and YouTubers.
PC gaming was declared dead many years ago. Consoles could do everything PCs could do as far as gaming but came in a much more user-friendly package and at lower prices to boot. There were professional E-Sports popping up and many of them operated on consoles.
Then there was a massive rise in the popularity of YouTube celebrities and Streamers. A small handful of which make a lot of money, but there is also a sizable group that makes enough to live comfortably on. People started seeing that and got stars in their eyes. You need decent PC equipment to make YouTube content or to stream.
E-Sports moved almost exclusively to PC.
PC gaming is more popular than ever. Working from home is more popular than ever. People trying to make it as a streamer or YouTuber is exploding.
You can blame all of this on miners and scalpers, but if you entered the PC market in the last 5 or so years you are every bit as much the "problem" as any other group.
I built my first PC in 1993. I've built every PC I've owned since. I started mining because I had a box of "old" GPUs that I had replaced with 30 series GPUs. I didn't buy my first three 30 series GPUs with any intention of mining on them, but once I saw the passive income I could make using what I already had because I'm a gamer it was pretty cool. I really don't think I'm the problem here.
While I agree in general, I think your dates are off by a bit. PC gaming had a major resurgence in the very early 2010's, in between the 7th and 8th gen gaming consoles. PC's gained a ton of traction in that gap. BF3, Skyrim, Minecraft full release all 2011. The PS4 and Xbox One didn't come until 2013. The golden age of Youtube ad revenue was in the mid 2010's, when they had liberal partner/monetization policies, prior to the 2017 Adpocalypse. Now things have moved onto live streaming the flavor of the month game, though there are still large sanitized creators doing well with videos. The recent boom in PC's is a continuation of the momentum started 10 years ago.
post edited by kevinc313 - 2021/09/18 16:17:33
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jaredbyoung
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 17:20:02
(permalink)
kevinc313
jaredbyoung
I forgot to mention in my pervious post another factor driving scarcity.
Streamers and YouTubers, but to an even greater degree, wannabe streamers and YouTubers.
PC gaming was declared dead many years ago. Consoles could do everything PCs could do as far as gaming but came in a much more user-friendly package and at lower prices to boot. There were professional E-Sports popping up and many of them operated on consoles.
Then there was a massive rise in the popularity of YouTube celebrities and Streamers. A small handful of which make a lot of money, but there is also a sizable group that makes enough to live comfortably on. People started seeing that and got stars in their eyes. You need decent PC equipment to make YouTube content or to stream.
E-Sports moved almost exclusively to PC.
PC gaming is more popular than ever. Working from home is more popular than ever. People trying to make it as a streamer or YouTuber is exploding.
You can blame all of this on miners and scalpers, but if you entered the PC market in the last 5 or so years you are every bit as much the "problem" as any other group.
I built my first PC in 1993. I've built every PC I've owned since. I started mining because I had a box of "old" GPUs that I had replaced with 30 series GPUs. I didn't buy my first three 30 series GPUs with any intention of mining on them, but once I saw the passive income I could make using what I already had because I'm a gamer it was pretty cool. I really don't think I'm the problem here.
While I agree in general, I think your dates are off by a bit. PC gaming had a major resurgence in the very early 2010's, in between the 7th and 8th gen gaming consoles. PC's gained a ton of traction in that gap. BF3, Skyrim, Minecraft full release all 2011. The PS4 and Xbox One didn't come until 2013. The golden age of Youtube ad revenue was in the mid 2010's, when they had liberal partner/monetization policies, prior to the 2017 Adpocalypse. Now things have moved onto live streaming the flavor of the month game, though there are still large sanitized creators doing well with videos. The recent boom in PC's is a continuation of the momentum started 10 years ago.
Yeah, I admit, I didn't put a lot of thought into the timeframe I suggested.
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nosomo
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 20:14:42
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rawalshree
Of course big guy. I'm pretty sure you know everything about all things. Kudos to you.
I'm not interested in Mining and neither will I buy any overpriced cards from Stock-X. You can enjoy all the cards from there, I don't care a bit. If it's so easy then why don't all the miners go buy from there, why hog up the MSRP cards from website like EVGA.
Some people just like to complain. I've landed 14 ampere cards now by my own actions at retail. No bots, just a little bit more effort than 1 click checkout on your favorite website. Anyone that really wants one has already got one. Those who haven't had one, don't want them bad enough.
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nosomo
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 20:17:46
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ObscureEmpyre
Apple can eat it at this point, and this is coming from someone typing this on an iPhone. I just don’t see the need to roll out a new model phone every year considering there haven’t been leaps and bounds of performance, generationally, from one phone to the next in recent years. Personally, I get a new phone when my current one stops holding much of a charge, and that seems to be roughly every 4 years or so.
Yeah, I'm the same way. Just recently "upgraded" to an S10 that's 99% new and got it for $200 delivered. Not a thing wrong with it and still more phone than pretty much everyone but a hardcore mobile would need. Even then, hardcore mobile gamer is a bit of an oxymoron.
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ty_ger07
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 21:20:09
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nosomo
ObscureEmpyre
....Personally, I get a new phone when my current one stops holding much of a charge, and that seems to be roughly every 4 years or so.
Yeah, I'm the same way.
Yeah, me too. I just buy 13 ampere video cards instead of splurging needlessly on 14. 14, why? 14 is for those weird Apple fanbois.
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nosomo
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Re: There will never be GPU’s available until something changes.
2021/09/18 21:45:50
(permalink)
ty_ger07
Yeah, me too. I just buy 13 ampere video cards instead of splurging needlessly on 14. 14, why? 14 is for those weird Apple fanbois.
I build machines as a side hobby. I haven't turned down an MSRP purchase yet because there's a market for it and I'm more than happy to supply it.
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