Bowenac
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Well helmutcheese educated me last night about not needing a SLI bridge for SLI. So this got me thinking. Since GTX460's are not tri SLI capable being they don't have the 2nd connector. Could they be ran in TRI SLI without a bridge? He mentioned that there is only about a 8-10% difference using GTX2 series cards. So I am curious what this would come out to be with TRI SLI GTX460's no bridge vs 2 GTX460's in SLI with a bridge.
post edited by Bowenac - 2010/07/21 08:05:03
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20207551003431 
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 07:50:34
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No clue if the 460's really lack TRI SLI or its simply the PCB lack the extra fingers ! Remember there is more than 1 vendor claiming Tri SLI for the new 460's but I think Jacob said it was an error and I think Gigabyte have changed their info. I am not 100% on this as its all very new. The 8-10% without bridge was going by my 2x 260 216's and review sites own findings, not sure what it would be on 2x 285's or 2x295's or on an older Mobo where the 1xPCI-E 1.0/1.1 16x Slot would be halfed to x8 (Intel P35). My Mobo is a P45 so PCI-E 2.0 and once again I had to hack it to get SLI.
post edited by helmutcheese - 2010/07/21 07:56:07
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 07:52:25
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helmutcheese
No clue if the 460's really lack TRI SLI or its simply the PCB lack the extra fingers !
Remember there is more than 1 vendor claiming Tri SLI for the new 460's but I think Jacob said it was an error and I think Gigabyte have changed there info.
I am not 100% on this as its all very new.
Yea the PCB does not have the 2nd connector like I said in the first post. You didn't know that crazy? But with or with out it I figured since regular SLI can be done with no bridge then can three 460's?
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:01:28
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Yes I did now EVGA and most Nvidia reviews claimed no TRI SLI support ! Crazy to not know this, not really as many peeps ask it every few days/per week here. Again more than 1 vendor (be it legit or an error) claims TRI SLI on 460's ! BTW, even if it was possible Nvidia can easily block it in drivers.
post edited by helmutcheese - 2010/07/21 08:04:32
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:04:25
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helmutcheese
Yes I did now EVGA and most Nvidia reviews claimed no TRI SLI support !
Crazy to not know this, not really as many peeps ask it every few days/per week here.
Again more than 1 vendor (be it legit or an error) claims TRI SLI on 460's !
Are those vendors using BRIDGES? Because EVGA cards do not have the needed 2nd connector on the PCB. But either way I was asking about your theory. Will TRI SLI work without a bridge?
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foxyshoxzy
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:08:46
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That would be very cool if it were possible, but the benefit would have to outweigh the performance hit of not only running without a bridge, but also the speed hit of going to Tri-SLI. For example, my ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe is 16/16 if I run 2 cards but 8/8/8 if I run 3. Not sure if there's a significant decrease in performance there; I am very new to multi-card setups.
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:09:14
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Well you seen the peep posting link to Quad SLI without bridges on THG but as above edit, Nvidia can block it at a driver level but it could be hacked once again like my SLI was. You have however got me thinking (I do not know the answer) ! I knew on release day claims of no TRI SLI but then seen Gigabyte and one other (cannot remember who, may have been Sparkle) claim TRI SLI support on their front page of websites. I think Jacob said it was an error as they do not do TRI SLI and possibly he contacted them as Gigabyte change it that day (guessing). BUT and a big BUT, if all that is missing is the PCB Fingers and the drivers are not blocked yet would it work ! Hmm, you know I'm pretty sure someone on this very forum posted a photo of a 460 from one of the many zero day reviews that had the needed PCB Fingers for TRI SLI !
post edited by helmutcheese - 2010/07/21 08:17:19
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:11:57
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foxyshoxzy
That would be very cool if it were possible, but the benefit would have to outweigh the performance hit of not only running without a bridge, but also the speed hit of going to Tri-SLI. For example, my ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe is 16/16 if I run 2 cards but 8/8/8 if I run 3. Not sure if there's a significant decrease in performance there; I am very new to multi-card setups.
If your Mobo is PCI-E 2.0 then it will be fine with 460's !
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aka_STEVE_b
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:43:05
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I have educated myself in hours of Google-FU about SLI & even Nvidia's site is lacking in definitive proof with updated info about the 'NO' bridge deal.
--but the WIKIpedia links Helmut posted in the other thread is very old info..in it it even states .." "if no SLI bridge is used on two high-end graphics cards, the performance suffers severely as the chipset does not have enough bandwidth. "" ..and that was talking about 7100 cards.
I would like an EVGA tech, such as Jacob, to give an updated statement about this 'no bridge' thing. or at the very least, some actual new benchmark data from various sites....
I'm interested by this, just as a matter of knowledge, NOT as an argument.
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 08:48:34
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Yes and I even stated it was old and quoted the exact part you have above +look at drivers build #80's).  PCI-E is now 2.0 and soon to be belated 3.0 There is a loss of performance as can be expected using the PCI-E Bus instead of directly from card to card. Someone posted he lost 5-10FPS in benches and another showed a Quad SLI on THG site. I lost about 8-10% in my testing (nothing major or fancy) with 2x 260 216's ! (without a bridge then with a bridge from my 680I mobo). I never and did not ever see anyone on any forum claim it was a better idea to run bridgeless but it does run that is all. The OP of this thread wants to know if you can run 3x460's in SLI due to the above info ! I cannot answer him but know what the rest of you have read so far but I did see Gigabytes site and TRI SLI claims before the change.
post edited by helmutcheese - 2010/07/21 08:55:48
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shogon
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:05:44
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thought the gtx 460's didn't support 3-way SLI?
I will either find a way, or make one. ٩(๏̯͡๏)۶
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:11:41
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shogon
thought the gtx 460's didn't support 3-way SLI?
So it was said at launch but 1 or 2 vendors stated TRI SLI support on their sites (1 has changed that now) ! Someone posted a photo from a zero day review of a 460 with TRI SLI Fingers on its PCB (AFAIR). And if the PCB does lack the extra fingers needed can it be done bridgeless (if Nvidia do not block it at driver level) ?
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EVGA_JacobF
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:13:58
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GTX 460 does not support 3-way SLI, there is no way around this.
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:16:29
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EVGA_JacobF
GTX 460 does not support 3-way SLI, there is no way around this.
Interesting, what about regular SLI? Curious what is different about regular SLI compared to TRI SLI that a bridge would be needed on TRI but not regular. If the cards did support TRI SLI would they be able to run in TRI SLI without the bridge. That makes no sense to me other then software related. I mean how would the extra connector enable TRI SLI even without the bridge.
post edited by Bowenac - 2010/07/21 09:19:04
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aka_STEVE_b
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:18:00
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What exactly would the % loss be on any 400 series cards with running NO SLI bridge ???
Curious.
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EVGA_JacobF
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:18:08
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Bowenac
EVGA_JacobF
GTX 460 does not support 3-way SLI, there is no way around this.
Interesting, what about regular SLI? Curious what is different about regular SLI compared to TRI SLI that a bridge would be needed on TRI but not regular.
Regular SLI is supported. Yes you can enable SLI without a bridge, but in degraded performance. In the case of the 460, it does not matter whether you use a bridge or not, you cannot enable 3-way SLI.
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:20:41
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EVGA_JacobF
Bowenac
EVGA_JacobF
GTX 460 does not support 3-way SLI, there is no way around this.
Interesting, what about regular SLI? Curious what is different about regular SLI compared to TRI SLI that a bridge would be needed on TRI but not regular.
Regular SLI is supported.
Yes you can enable SLI without a bridge, but in degraded performance. In the case of the 460, it does not matter whether you use a bridge or not, you cannot enable 3-way SLI.
Ok with cards that do support TRI SLI. Meaning they have the needed extra connector. So like GTX470's, will they run TRI SLI without the bridge. If they would then I assume this would be software related, as to why it would not work on 460's. Like helmut said most likely being blocked. Now why on earth would they do that.
post edited by Bowenac - 2010/07/21 09:25:50
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:25:49
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Yes same as the Quad SLI on THG without bridges.
I wonder what Nvidia have done to stop TRI SLI bridgeless on 460's then.
Is it simply locked in driver or is something other than fingers missing from the PCB (ie a chip of some sort).
Jacob did you correct Gigabyte whom have since changed their info on this topic and did you see one of cards in the review with the extra needed fingers (could simply be a shared PCB for X models and not actually connected though) ?
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:28:11
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helmutcheese
Yes same as the Quad SLI on THG without bridges.
I wonder what Nvidia have done to stop TRI SLI bridgeless on 460's then.
Is it simply locked in driver or is something other than fingers missing from the PCB (ie a chip of some sort).
Jacob did you correct Gigabyte whom have since changed their info on this topic and did you see one of cards in the review with the extra needed fingers (could simply be a shared PCB for X models and not actually connected though) ?
Yea the only thing I can think of is that they locked it in software/driver. I don't see how the extra connector would all of a sudden make it TRI SLI capable without the bridge. Curious if the 470's work in TRI SLI without the bridge now.
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foxyshoxzy
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:30:34
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Bowenac
Now why on earth would they do that.
Because the 460 is not a high-end card. nVidia produced it to fill a particular market niche in which it felt it was lacking, and 3-way SLI support was not required for that. If you want to run 3 video cards, they want you to purchase the more expensive 470's or 480's. They will likely introduce more powerful cards based on the 104 in the coming months that will support it.
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EVGA_JacobF
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:31:17
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helmutcheese
...cards in the review with the extra needed fingers (could simply be a shared PCB for X models and not actually connected though) ?
Where did you see this?
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:36:28
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@ Bowenac, AFAIK any cards that support SLI including TRI/Quad SLI will run without the bridge in either mode as from that driver listed in Wiki. Before that driver restriction was removed you HAD to use the bridge. @ Jacob, in this forum somewhere in the zero day threads linking to all the 460 reviews, most probably the same one linking to Gigabyte's site and the 1 other vendor who claimed TRI SLI support (think it was Sparkle but not 100% on that).
post edited by helmutcheese - 2010/07/21 09:43:41
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20207551003431
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:39:38
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Jacob what is this Im getting here ?  then : 
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wmmills
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:54:56
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this is pretty intrigueing question!!! in theory, why not?? every other card that has a set of sli connectors will let you sli without the bridge. i was looking at my 8800gts that i have outta my other pc and the pcb by the sli finger looks like this: sli fingers, pcb trace,diode, pcb trace that goes to g80 gpu. all the diode does is when it recieves a certain voltage it just says yes or no to the circuit. so in theory, that can be achieved with no sli connector. i see no reason why a x58 wouldnt have enough voltage etc... to run tri sli without the bridge.also, you could probally wire a jumper type setup to fool the sytem into thinking its tri-sli with the triple connector and some ingenuity!!! of course this is all just enthusiast type thinking/madness so take this with a grain of salt!!! \m/
post edited by wmmills - 2010/07/21 09:57:29
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aka_STEVE_b
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 09:59:14
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STEVEBABCOCK2002
What exactly would the % loss be on any 400 series cards with running NO SLI bridge ???
Curious.
As not to get buried, I am still curious as to any data on NOT using a bridge with most any card from 200xx series on up.....?? Jacob ? Percentages lost or FPS...etc...etc...
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Bowenac
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 10:02:58
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STEVEBABCOCK2002
STEVEBABCOCK2002
What exactly would the % loss be on any 400 series cards with running NO SLI bridge ???
Curious.
As not to get buried, I am still curious as to any data on NOT using a bridge with most any card from 200xx series on up.....?? Jacob ?
Percentages lost or FPS...etc...etc...
I will do a comparison tomorrow with my 460's.
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edchan91491
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 11:19:57
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well then, there has to be a reason nvidia doesnt want tri sli on these cards. if they so happen to block it with drivers also.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/526479948.png
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Hog54
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 11:36:24
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edchan91491
well then, there has to be a reason nvidia doesnt want tri sli on these cards. if they so happen to block it with drivers also.
Yeah, they want to sell 470s and 480s.
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linkian19
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 12:00:55
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Hog54
edchan91491
well then, there has to be a reason nvidia doesnt want tri sli on these cards. if they so happen to block it with drivers also.
Yeah, they want to sell 470s and 480s.
You beat me to it, Hog. Was just thinking the same thing. As far as I can tell the 460's are supposed to be the budget high-end card. You still get Fermi architecture, dx11, and all that jazz, but not quite the power of a 470 or 480. These cards look great for someone looking to get some great graphics without breaking the bank. But for those of us that are crazy enough to go Tri and Quad SLI and to have max eye-candy at huge resolutions, you have to make the jump. Seems like a pretty simple marketing concept. Do we we have to like it? No, but it's still pretty smart on Nvidia's part. At least to me it seems that way. I could just be spewing nonsense here lol.
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Hog54
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Re:TRI SLI GTX460?
2010/07/21 12:05:28
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Well if you could tri-sli 460s for $600 you wouldnt even think about buying one 480 for $500.Plus tri-sli 460s would probably beat 480s in sli for a $1000.
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