Miguell
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 13:47:09
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if in fact prices are going to increase with new generations of gfx then i fear for pc gaming for the first time.
BEcause for one right now i am not going to give up to 1500€ for a 2080 Ti.
that is 3 full salaries for JUST 1 pc component.
that is just insane. im sorry but this is getting out of hand. and after this current pc i have and after my Inno3D GeForce® GTX 1080 TI iChill X4 gets here this will probably be my last upgrade and im quitting pc gaming.
and so you know for 1500€ i just upgraded my hole pc including the gfx above that costed 770€.
for 1500€ i can go on a 7 day cruise on the Mediterranean Sea.
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Hoggle
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 16:46:08
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I kind of find it funny that a month ago people bashed the RTX 2080Ti for the frame rate drop turning Ray Tracing on gave. Now we are talking about the 1080Ti being able to do Ray Tracing in software and everyone is talking about how great it's going to be even though it's software trying to do what hardware is having a problem doing. It can't be both that cards are not yet powerful for Ray Tracing and that the last generation is powerful enough unless it's angry people over the cost who have been bashing the cards because of price.
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ty_ger07
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 17:01:21
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Hoggle
I kind of find it funny that a month ago people bashed the RTX 2080Ti for the frame rate drop turning Ray Tracing on gave. Now we are talking about the 1080Ti being able to do Ray Tracing in software and everyone is talking about how great it's going to be even though it's software trying to do what hardware is having a problem doing. It can't be both that cards are not yet powerful for Ray Tracing and that the last generation is powerful enough unless it's angry people over the cost who have been bashing the cards because of price.
Again, wrong. Why do people keep repeating that garbage statement? It's the same API performing the same operation. Only the hardware is different. They are both hardware implementations. Not software. If the GTX 1080 Ti is "using software to ray trace", then so is the RTX 2080 Ti; the exact same software, in fact (the host application, API, and driver). So, stop differentiating one as a hardware solution and one as a software solution. Secondly, who is excited to ray trace on a 1080 Ti? In my case, I have no interest in ray tracing on my GTX 1080, but I am still happy about reducing restrictions on features and reducing the use of pay walls. Let the hardware's performance and natural ability (or inability) to perform functions be the thing which causes people make their purchase decisions, rather than making features needlessly exclusive solely for the purpose of marketing.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 17:22:47
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ty_ger07
Again, wrong. Why do people keep repeating that garbage statement? It's the same API performing the same operation. Only the hardware is different. They are both hardware implementations. Not software. If the GTX 1080 Ti is "using software to ray trace", then so is the RTX 2080 Ti; the exact same software, in fact (the host application, API, and driver).
So, stop differentiating one as a hardware solution and one as a software solution.
yes we can because ray tracing is done on hardware which - if done on cuda core would require 3x the die size to achieve with volta (let alone pascal) by using hardware specialized cores you reduce the amount of circuits needed to do the job - because they don't have to be general cores that do everything(all code) - not only that they are faster hardware implementation of software is always faster - by a whopping big factor just that hardware implemented circuits are not flexible - they do one job well and very well if DXR and nvidia driver knows it's a RT it will send the instruction/data(data would be the better word for it) to circuit rather than - jump to software Turing does not need software - its hardware pascal does and it will be much slower case in point nvidia does it's star wars demo which took 4 volta's - it now does it on 1 turing excuse me????.... you thing pascal gonna do better than volta???
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2019/03/24 18:14:21
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ty_ger07
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 19:08:21
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Xavier Zepherious
excuse me????.... you thing pascal gonna do better than volta???
What!?! Why did you jump to that strange conclusion? All I said is that both methods utilize software to implement hardware in order to ray trace. It's not fair to call one a hardware solution and one a software solution. They are both a mix of hardware and software. In the end, they both use hardware -- different hardware -- to achieve the end result. The performance will of course be different. That goes without saying. Like duh. Why did you even need to ask that question? Was this not clear?
Secondly, who is excited to ray trace on a 1080 Ti? In my case, I have no interest in ray tracing on my GTX 1080, but I am still happy about reducing restrictions on features and reducing the use of pay walls. Let the hardware's performance and natural ability (or inability) to perform functions be the thing which causes people make their purchase decisions, rather than making features needlessly exclusive solely for the purpose of marketing.
To be clear, when I say "who is excited to ray trace on a 1080 Ti?", I am not saying it's wrong or right to be excited to utilize a feature. I simply repeated his statement. I personally have no interest in utilizing the feature, but I am sure that some other people are excited to be able to utilize the feature on their Pascal card. My point is that even though I have no interest in utilizing the feature, I am still excited about the principle of the matter.
if DXR and nvidia driver knows it's a RT it will send the instruction/data(data would be the better word for it) to circuit rather than - jump to software
Turing does not need software - its hardware
pascal does and it will be much slower
I would like to see this in writing. Slower, of course; I agree. But, where is the proof of the Pascal implementation needing more software than the Turing implementation? I want to see that in writing. From my perspective, they utilize the same software and the major difference in performance is due to hardware optimisation and hardware capabilities. From the topic of discussion:
Then again Nvidia has said before that GeForce GTX cards can render ray traced scenes, but they are several times slower than RTX graphics cards. Turing RTX GPUs add dedicated pipelines to calculate rays and triangle intersections, thus making simulation of ray tracing feasible.
Hardware, hardware, hardware. Please show me a reputable source explaining one as a hardware solution and the other as a software solution. The Pascal card also uses hardware to calculate rays and triangle intersections, it's just slower at it and has to do it in smaller individual steps. If we are going to start considering GPU compute a software implementation, something went horribly wrong with our definitions somewhere along the line.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2019/03/24 19:38:53
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 20:18:57
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/24 23:17:55
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software implementation is always slower - just from the sheer overhead let alone the code as a chip designer myself - hardware implementation hard coded - for a specific task will always be faster here its 10x faster - because the hardware(encoded process) handles the work (limited code - specific task) - hardware encode is faster than a cude core or CPU core always (you cut all the useless stuff you don't need to do the repetitive work - with no code you load it ....it does the work) for someone to say they are the same is incorrect - not even close id like you look look at floating point divide - how a chip does it and how software does it (software has to be interpreted by the cpu- and microcode- loaded into the registers and then done using multiple - like 100 lines of code) - thats 100's of clock cycles- the hard encoded circuit does not do that - it does it instantly - in one clock The RT Cores in Turing can process all the BVH traversal and ray-triangle intersection testing, saving the SM from spending the thousands of instruction slots per ray, which could be an enormous amount of instructions for an entire scene. The RT Core includes two specialized units. The first unit does bounding box tests, and the second unit does ray-triangle intersection tests. The SM only has to launch a ray probe, and the RT core does the BVH traversal and ray-triangle tests, and return a hit or no hit to the SM. The SM is largely freed up to do other graphics or compute work. See Figure 20 or an illustration of Turing ray tracing with RT Cores. here the RT cores save 1000's -maybe as much as 3000 lines of code per ray - and we are doing 1000Million rays - thats a lots of cuda core loss the software takes 1 gigaray is 10TFLOPS using all cuda cores(or most of them) in pascal (that would put the card rendering like a snail) the rt cores do 10 gigarays in the same time with reasonable framerate - not the best framerates but as good as 3 or 4 voltas 72 RT cores do all this work that 1000's of cuda cores could not there is never any comparison over a hardware vs software implementation -> hardware is always much faster and better usually
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2019/03/24 23:31:25
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/25 01:31:54
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Xavier well done and thanks for the breakdown. I think that's been missing and you're doing a better job than Nvidia's initial presentation.
+1 to you.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/25 17:17:22
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in pascal... it is software because it requires 1000's of lines of code (that are un-neccessary when done with hardware) even tho its hardware - you saying cpu's don't run on software? cpus are hardware that run software - but there are hardware cores like Floating point divide built into them (saving tons of extra code line for programmers and speed up in one specific area) there are other circuits in a AMD or INTEL CISC cpu as well Risc processors have no Special circuits look the difference is like RISC software encoded floating point divide versus CISC which the floating point is done with the hardware on the chip the risc version is totally done in software(for every digit- shifting the bits ...lots of code - and is slow) - vs the CISC which is hardware on the CPU(which only requires a load into) and is much faster because it handled internally to that core and simplified circuitry they both require software - Risc there is a lot of it - versus CISC which requires little - and the hardware is faster the risc processor overall (except in cases like Floating point divide )is faster because the speed is faster and chip can run cooler) than a CISC cpu becuase overall the most cpu's run integer and simple code and a faster chip doing simple integer and code will be faster if run run Floating point all the time the CISC wins here what can be said if we go with Ray trace as the future - you need hardware specific core because like CISC and floating point the future is RT in GPU's what i can say is that turing is barely sufficient - im assuming Ampere when it comes will be quite a monster at 7nm and 4k RT will be norm and at 60fps+right now it can just do enough to keep it's head above water im loving the card... nice card if you can afford adopting the new tech - same could be the same when Nvidia adopted SLI and cuda cores - some people said it was a fad ..and some didn't want to buy into it - look where we are now as for silicon it isn't gonna get cheaper fabs are getting bigger and more expensive to build because the fab equip is huge and expensive - think semi truck size - in one fab process to the warehouse size for the next - because of all the extra fabrication that goes into each new gen CWOS, layering and tunneling now
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2019/03/25 17:25:03
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ty_ger07
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 02:44:09
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Xavier Zepherious
in pascal... it is software because it requires 1000's of lines of code (that are un-neccessary when done with hardware) even tho its hardware
Most of that was again irrelevant, so I snipped out the relevant part. I understand what you are talking about, I understand floating point, bit shifting, and bitwise operations, and I agree that your analogies are plausibly related, but I see a lack of evidence. I thought NVIDIA said that existing games which support ray tracing will not need anything changed in order to also ray trace on other hardware. So, where are these 1000s of lines of code which programmers will need to add? Can you point me to a recent article published by NVIDIA where NVIDIA calls it software ray tracing? To be clear, again, I have zero interest in whether anyone likes Turing or doesn't like Turing, likes DLSS or doesn't like DLSS, likes RTX or doesn't like RTX.... I really don't care either way. This is all about semantics, and only semantics. I think that some have assumed -- for 3 pages -- that I am a RTX hater and therefore responded in strange ways about things which were totally unrelated to what I said.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2019/03/26 03:17:12
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transdogmifier
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 03:56:29
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ty_ger07
Xavier Zepherious
in pascal... it is software because it requires 1000's of lines of code (that are un-neccessary when done with hardware) even tho its hardware
Most of that was again irrelevant, so I snipped out the relevant part. I understand what you are talking about, I understand floating point, bit shifting, and bitwise operations, and I agree that your analogies are plausibly related, but I see a lack of evidence. I thought NVIDIA said that existing games which support ray tracing will not need anything changed in order to also ray trace on other hardware. So, where are these 1000s of lines of code which programmers will need to add? Can you point me to a recent article published by NVIDIA where NVIDIA calls it software ray tracing?
To be clear, again, I have zero interest in whether anyone likes Turing or doesn't like Turing, likes DLSS or doesn't like DLSS, likes RTX or doesn't like RTX.... I really don't care either way. This is all about semantics, and only semantics. I think that some have assumed -- for 3 pages -- that I am a RTX hater and therefore responded in strange ways about things which were totally unrelated to what I said.
I think a software solution will inherently be slower than a hardware solution....but regarding code that doesn't need to be changed/does need to be changed....I think that's a load of malarkey to say nothing will need to be changed in existing games.. *shrug* There has to be a hook into the Ray Tracing (note, I have no real idea how it's implemented, that's not the area of the industry I'm in....I'm in storage) algorithm (if it's software)......the game talks to the hardware...if it doesn't exist, there has to be another avenue...(at least from my perspective)
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ty_ger07
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 05:39:38
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transdogmifier
I think a software solution will inherently be slower than a hardware solution.
Again, I agree. But, before we call it "software ray tracing", it would be nice to have such evidence.
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asmodyus
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 05:43:11
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ty_ger07
Xavier Zepherious
in pascal... it is software because it requires 1000's of lines of code (that are un-neccessary when done with hardware) even tho its hardware
Most of that was again irrelevant, so I snipped out the relevant part. I understand what you are talking about, I understand floating point, bit shifting, and bitwise operations, and I agree that your analogies are plausibly related, but I see a lack of evidence. I thought NVIDIA said that existing games which support ray tracing will not need anything changed in order to also ray trace on other hardware. So, where are these 1000s of lines of code which programmers will need to add? Can you point me to a recent article published by NVIDIA where NVIDIA calls it software ray tracing?
To be clear, again, I have zero interest in whether anyone likes Turing or doesn't like Turing, likes DLSS or doesn't like DLSS, likes RTX or doesn't like RTX.... I really don't care either way. This is all about semantics, and only semantics. I think that some have assumed -- for 3 pages -- that I am a RTX hater and therefore responded in strange ways about things which were totally unrelated to what I said.
You guys are way overthining this for semetics it acutally both Raytracing is software as all graphics is software. It is code that is written and the hardware cacluates it and it's almost all of its done by the GPU no matter what type of GPU because software is written that way to use the hardware. The RTX just has more horspower and current drivers are allowing only GPU's that have RT Cores to compute Ray tracing in games that already have it enabled in there graphics code. Hence why Crytek was able to write code that had raytracing enabled by current hardware. Because if it was hardware than all games would have raytracing if it was just a flip of a switch. Accorining to Nvidia the next major driver update older GPU's will also be able to compute the RT code on there current GPU without RT cores.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 08:16:37
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are you saying programmers cannot put in a detection piece of software (like a driver) - that says if you have this hardware ignore this 1000+ lines of code and do this 10 line piece of code and offload to a internal RT core...I hope not software is software and most RT programs will use DXR and whatever else GPU developers incorporate and games will have relevant code for both Nvidia and other hardware to get the most out of the performance if you can offload more work to Specialize units that take up little space - without sacrificing the rest of the gpu's performance is a gain - in fact you got improvement in GPU performance (with virtually no die shrink - since 12nm is 16FF++) and got RT to boot with it yeah the price might be high - but thats due to die size mainly (50% increase)- surface area is size and thats less chips on a silicon wafer - which means higher prices and add in GDDR6 which is more expensive you aren't gonna see any changes coming down the road on pricing - it's only gonna get more expensive as the fab process gets more expensive case in pont jen huang said this week there was even an explicit statement from nVidia boss Jensen Huang, according to which nVidia does not want to pay the additional costs in 7nm production, but instead wants to gain advantages. One certainly does not have to take that statement literally - because often such statements are only used as a reason to justify why one is behind a special development path. The core of the reasoning is true: 7nm really costs a lot more, for chips of the same size you can expect roughly twice the cost . This diametrically contradicts the earlier successes of semiconductor fabrication, where one has usually got the same size chips in a new fabrication at almost the same cost. So at 7nm, nVidia could only plan half the size of this chip to stay at the same cost - which makes it hard to add more transistors for more performance. He emphasizes that Nvidia could order appropriate wafers from TSMC at any time, but at the moment the Turing architecture is optimally positioned. The advantage of a new process is increased performance, combined with lower energy consumption, and the old 12-nanometer production is still at an advantage over its competitor AMD . meaning they could order 7nm - and it be ampere - but are you willing to pay the price even if your reduce chip size by 33% you are still looking at 50% price increase vs the same die size and 2x the price YIKES!!!!
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2019/03/26 09:32:23
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ty_ger07
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 09:42:49
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asmodyus
You guys are way overthining this for semetics it acutally both Raytracing is software as all graphics is software. It is code that is written and the hardware cacluates it and it's almost all of its done by the GPU no matter what type of GPU because software is written that way to use the hardware. The RTX just has more horspower and current drivers are allowing only GPU's that have RT Cores to compute Ray tracing in games that already have it enabled in there graphics code. Hence why Crytek was able to write code that had raytracing enabled by current hardware. Because if it was hardware than all games would have raytracing if it was just a flip of a switch.
Accorining to Nvidia the next major driver update older GPU's will also be able to compute the RT code on there current GPU without RT cores.
So, like I said? ty_ger07
If the GTX 1080 Ti is "using software to ray trace", then so is the RTX 2080 Ti; the exact same software, in fact (the host application, API, and driver).
So, stop differentiating one as a hardware solution and one as a software solution.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 10:07:48
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NV achieved with the RTX 2070 + 2080 cards in 2-3 months already significantly more steam market share than AMD with Vega in 1.5 years (!!!)
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panzlock
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 10:26:39
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Xavier Zepherious
NV achieved with the RTX 2070 + 2080 cards in 2-3 months already significantly more steam market share than AMD with Vega in 1.5 years (!!!)
That's the brilliance of effective marketing. Do you have ANY idea how many people bought RTX cards at inflated prices before reviewers even had a chance to test, and reveal that DXR has no visual benefits? On the other hand, AMD shot themselves in the hooves by releasing an over volted card (Vega and probably the VII) showing little to no mitigating effort when reviewers berated its fuel consumption prior to the discovery of under volting by efficient Germans.
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kram36
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 10:40:51
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panzlock
Xavier Zepherious
NV achieved with the RTX 2070 + 2080 cards in 2-3 months already significantly more steam market share than AMD with Vega in 1.5 years (!!!)
That's the brilliance of effective marketing. Do you have ANY idea how many people bought RTX cards at inflated prices before reviewers even had a chance to test, and reveal that DXR has no visual benefits?
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale. DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
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panzlock
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 10:52:57
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kram36
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale.
DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
......WHAT??? Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech reviewed titles supporting DXR and that was the conclusion they both endorsed. Jayz2Cents also chimed in with a more positive perspective but it was hollow and praised mainly the advancement of the technology into the mainstream rather than its outright appeal.
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kram36
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 13:43:08
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panzlock
kram36
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale.
DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
......WHAT???
Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech reviewed titles supporting DXR and that was the conclusion they both endorsed. Jayz2Cents also chimed in with a more positive perspective but it was hollow and praised mainly the advancement of the technology into the mainstream rather than its outright appeal.
Again, where do you get that DXR has no visual benefits?
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 14:05:02
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i wouldn't count ufd tech as a reviewer - been to his utube channel - not much to say on it
and gamernexus says they are worth it if you are into real immersion in the game because you will notice a difference in visuals - if your a competitive player to go without for FPS
his take is it worth the price maybe...maybe not
but with silicon prices going sky-high with 7nm - maybe 12nm FF might not be so bad
i can just imagine if AMD and Nvidia cards jump in price by 50-100% that a 2080ti might not look so bad
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MasterMiner
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 16:57:33
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GTXJackBauer
ComboSlicer
Tensor cores - for DLSS
RT cores - for raytracing
Tensor core is not RT core
Also half of these people wouldn’t be complaining here if 2080Ti would cost 700 dollars so it all comes down to cost.
All these “skip turing and waiting ampere” claimers would immediately change their statement if ampere would make same price increase as it was pascal > turing.
Xavier Zepherious
ampere won't be cheaper
7nm process is more expensive and gddr6 is not cheap and you be looking at 16gb-32GB for the card - so at least 25% more cost there
and if navi is good they may go for a bigger die again - which raises the cost because there is less silicon per wafer
ram manufacturers are reducing output to raise ram prices - sort of like opec does for oil
you have oligopolies that like to keep prices high
not enough competition anymore
ComboSlicer
It was always known that DXR which was developed by Microsoft as part of dx12 api doesn’t need any hardware based raytrace accelerators at all.
It is nvidia’s approach to use hardware based accelerator we know as rt core.
Nvidia itself explained that without rt cores the turing die size should’ve been 3x larger in order to get same perf in raytracing with rasterization power.
Yes Amd can use software based acceleration but the perf will be very bad.
+1 Finally some logic. 
Ray Tracing “cores” are very simple ASIC’s that compute triangles. The massing architecture improvements come from the Tensors - they do the heavy lifting in terms of calculations. Without them Ray Tracing cores wouldn’t have nicely formatted input to render “light”.
post edited by MasterMiner - 2019/03/26 17:17:52
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/26 21:13:56
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MasterMiner
Ray Tracing “cores” are very simple ASIC’s that compute triangles. The massing architecture improvements come from the Tensors - they do the heavy lifting in terms of calculations. Without them Ray Tracing cores wouldn’t have nicely formatted input to render “light”.
Aren't the Tensor cores strickly for DLSS or any feature AI related? When I game on BFV, I don't get the option for DLSS nor do I think I would want it since I game on a 2080 Ti, on 1440p in ultra settings.
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panzlock
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 09:58:58
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kram36
panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale.
DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
......WHAT???
Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech reviewed titles supporting DXR and that was the conclusion they both endorsed. Jayz2Cents also chimed in with a more positive perspective but it was hollow and praised mainly the advancement of the technology into the mainstream rather than its outright appeal.
Again, where do you get that DXR has no visual benefits?
For someone as yappy as you are you refuse to read, huh? I just gave you three sources. Here's a fourth.
https://www.techspot.com/...ay-tracing-benchmarks/
This is useless unless you want to stop the game and zoom in on particular objects rendered.
Your statement that "DXR has no visual benefits" is incorrect, period.
How? Right now people can't tell the difference between DXR being on or off.
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panzlock
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 10:10:29
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kram36
panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale.
DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
......WHAT???
Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech reviewed titles supporting DXR and that was the conclusion they both endorsed. Jayz2Cents also chimed in with a more positive perspective but it was hollow and praised mainly the advancement of the technology into the mainstream rather than its outright appeal.
Again, where do you get that DXR has no visual benefits?
For someone as yappy as you are you refuse to read, huh? I just gave you three sources. Here's a fourth.
https://www.techspot.com/...ay-tracing-benchmarks/
This is useless unless you want to stop the game and zoom in on particular objects rendered.
Your statement that "DXR has no visual benefits" is incorrect, period.
How? Right now people can't tell the difference between DXR being on or off.
You're incorrect, did you not even read the article you linked to?
Now, real time ray tracing is a significant graphical achievement, it’s something that has been impossible to produce on a single GPU before, and is likely to become the future of the graphics industry.
Oh, I read it. Here's a better quote: It’s all well and good to announce real time ray tracing as a major new feature, but buyers are going to be disappointed when they purchase a $1,200 product only to find out using that feature results in awful performance.
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panzlock
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 10:18:26
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kram36
So you can't read? Can you see pictures?
Furthermore, go watch the videos I referred to earlier by Jayz, Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech before you continue pumping your overpriced garbage. A year or two from now you can run your mouth. But as it stands you're overpaying for something that makes no difference visually. This is not groundbreaking and you incur a hefty performance hit for it.
post edited by panzlock - 2019/03/27 10:20:55
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kram36
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 10:22:50
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panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
panzlock
kram36
I can answer your question, none. The reviewers had the cards, tested them and had the reviews out the same day the cards went on sale.
DXR has no visual benefits? Where do you come up with this statement?
......WHAT???
Gamers Nexus and UFD Tech reviewed titles supporting DXR and that was the conclusion they both endorsed. Jayz2Cents also chimed in with a more positive perspective but it was hollow and praised mainly the advancement of the technology into the mainstream rather than its outright appeal.
Again, where do you get that DXR has no visual benefits?
For someone as yappy as you are you refuse to read, huh? I just gave you three sources. Here's a fourth.
https://www.techspot.com/...ay-tracing-benchmarks/
This is useless unless you want to stop the game and zoom in on particular objects rendered.
Your statement that "DXR has no visual benefits" is incorrect, period.
How? Right now people can't tell the difference between DXR being on or off.
You're incorrect, did you not even read the article you linked to?
Now, real time ray tracing is a significant graphical achievement, it’s something that has been impossible to produce on a single GPU before, and is likely to become the future of the graphics industry.
Oh, I read it.
Here's a better quote:
It’s all well and good to announce real time ray tracing as a major new feature, but buyers are going to be disappointed when they purchase a $1,200 product only to find out using that feature results in awful performance.
That has nothing to do with your "DXR has no visual benefits" statement. You are flat out incorrect with that statement. Also your linked article was done before the new Battlefield V DXR patch. Here is an article with the patch and newer drivers, which helps the performance, but that's not what I'm addressing about your "DXR has no visual benefits" statement. Even in this article they say We found that the Ultra DXR reflections looked incredible https://babeltechreviews.com/battlefield-v-ultra-dxr-patch-and-driver-performance-analysis/ Now stop trying to change the subject to the performance as I am pointing out your incorrect "DXR has no visual benefits" statement.
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MasterMiner
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 11:02:49
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GTXJackBauer
MasterMiner
Ray Tracing “cores” are very simple ASIC’s that compute triangles. The massing architecture improvements come from the Tensors - they do the heavy lifting in terms of calculations. Without them Ray Tracing cores wouldn’t have nicely formatted input to render “light”.
Aren't the Tensor cores strickly for DLSS or any feature AI related?
When I game on BFV, I don't get the option for DLSS nor do I think I would want it since I game on a 2080 Ti, on 1440p in ultra settings.
https://developer.nvidia.com/discover/ray-tracing“...Turing adds Tensor Cores for artificial intelligence acceleration providing real-time denoising which drastically reduce the amount of rays needing to be cast as well as RT Cores that accelerate BVH traversal, the most time consuming part of the ray tracing calculations. These hardware advancements paired with powerful software APIs that make up the NVIDIA RTX platform make real-time ray tracing possible in game engines and digital content creation applications...” I’m not sure this means anything for consumers other than “Ray Tracing” is enabled by Tensor Cores. The only thing that matters is that all of this adds far more complexity and costs compared to previous gen. Nvidia isn’t ripping anyone off - this is genuinely complex and expensive stuff. The question is: is it worth it? How high is “high”?
I used to mine. Now I compute.
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EVGATech_AdamB
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 11:22:37
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Ok everyone, some people enjoy RTX features while others don't. Sometimes, people have a hard time telling what is being ray-traced and what isn't. Let's agree to disagree. Please do not make me lock the thread.
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atfrico
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Re: So much for Overpriced RTX's
2019/03/27 13:09:29
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EVGATech_AdamB
Ok everyone, some people enjoy RTX features while others don't. Sometimes, people have a hard time telling what is being ray-traced and what isn't. Let's agree to disagree. Please do not make me lock the thread.
 
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