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Hot!New Z690 / 3090 KPE / WC MO-RA 420 / EK build is here!!

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redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/12 19:38:01 (permalink)
this processor is hilarious.  peak TDP of 345w lol
 
 
PR 14981.  humbug
+1500m/110c/121p
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/79496434
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/09/12 20:01:06

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#31
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/12 20:13:59 (permalink)
YES!!!
 
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/79496609
 
PR 15052 at ambient 75F and stock voltage
+1550/+110/+121
 

 
the temps are really good though.  The MORA and airflow are doing good.  I really should put the XOC bios on and break out the classified tool.  I have a lot of temperature headroom.  I don't know how fast that will disappear at higher clocks but it would be interesting to find out.  really, hotspot can go all the way to 75 without being concerned when water cooled.  I need to read up on what to do as I don't want to pop my card.

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#32
kougar
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/13 21:43:24 (permalink)
redteamgo
 
morning Cool GTX, I am using Koolance QD3 10/16 compression fittings.  cheers!
 
 


Out of curiosity any particular reason ya went with QD3's over the QD4's?
 
Your build looks fantastic! Hitting all the right notes for what I've been planning myself for a silly long time ever since I snagged a MO-RA3 420 of my own from Sidewinders closing two years back. Just waiting on Zen 4 and B650 boards at this point to finally give it some use. 
 
I've been watching MO-RA builds for some time and I noticed you're one of the minority that actually uses the out-port at the top of the MO-RA directly into the reservoir. I'm surprised how many MO-RA builds actually don't do that and have overly complex tube routing because of it. Any thoughts or drawbacks you've noticed going that route?
 
redteamgo
 
I almost did the 9x2 140mm but 200mm is just a much better value.  each 200mm 1200rpm Noctua fan is <$30 direct from germany.  so you're buying 10 less fans at $30 a pop plus the 200mm moves much more air more quietly, even tho the max RPM is 1200 vs 1500 .  So "save" $300 by going with 200mm fans and be a bit quieter .  the choice is clear :P



I swear you literally are copying my planned build, not the other way around  My eyes popped when I noticed Watercool acquired chromax versions of the HS A20's this year. I even once emailed Noctua for the HS specs to directly compare against the base A20 but they informed me they weren't going to make it a regular model or add it to their own website. 
 
My question is what RPMs do you usually run them at, and about what RPM do they become audible even if it's just airflow noise to you? I'm still waffling on going regular A20s or going with the A20 HS fans... the base A20 wouldn't require fan controllers, but I'd need to arrange controllers and extra wiring if I go with the HS models. But the static pressure is so low on the stock A20's that even if I run the A20's run at 900-1KRPM it would probably be worth it I'm thinking... really wish I could just order one each from watercool to play with before hard-committing to eight of them but the shipping is too crazy!


Have water, will cool. 
#33
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/14 06:15:28 (permalink)
kougar
redteamgo
 
morning Cool GTX, I am using Koolance QD3 10/16 compression fittings.  cheers!
 
 


Out of curiosity any particular reason ya went with QD3's over the QD4's?
 
Your build looks fantastic! Hitting all the right notes for what I've been planning myself for a silly long time ever since I snagged a MO-RA3 420 of my own from Sidewinders closing two years back. Just waiting on Zen 4 and B650 boards at this point to finally give it some use. 
 
I've been watching MO-RA builds for some time and I noticed you're one of the minority that actually uses the out-port at the top of the MO-RA directly into the reservoir. I'm surprised how many MO-RA builds actually don't do that and have overly complex tube routing because of it. Any thoughts or drawbacks you've noticed going that route?
 
redteamgo
 
I almost did the 9x2 140mm but 200mm is just a much better value.  each 200mm 1200rpm Noctua fan is <$30 direct from germany.  so you're buying 10 less fans at $30 a pop plus the 200mm moves much more air more quietly, even tho the max RPM is 1200 vs 1500 .  So "save" $300 by going with 200mm fans and be a bit quieter .  the choice is clear :P



I swear you literally are copying my planned build, not the other way around  My eyes popped when I noticed Watercool acquired chromax versions of the HS A20's this year. I even once emailed Noctua for the HS specs to directly compare against the base A20 but they informed me they weren't going to make it a regular model or add it to their own website. 
 
My question is what RPMs do you usually run them at, and about what RPM do they become audible even if it's just airflow noise to you? I'm still waffling on going regular A20s or going with the A20 HS fans... the base A20 wouldn't require fan controllers, but I'd need to arrange controllers and extra wiring if I go with the HS models. But the static pressure is so low on the stock A20's that even if I run the A20's run at 900-1KRPM it would probably be worth it I'm thinking... really wish I could just order one each from watercool to play with before hard-committing to eight of them but the shipping is too crazy!


Hey kougar thanks for popping in.  I'm pretty sure the QD4 is for 13/19 tubing only.  The QD3 is for 10/16 and 13/16.  I use 10/16 with G1/4 threads.  10/16 is great because really, the compression collars are extremely secure and the larger tube wall helps with bends/kinks.  I wanted to keep the inner diameter about the same throughout the loop so I don't create any unnecessary back pressure from changing the inner diameter in two places.  that is why I have one pump pushing "in" to the MO-RA and the other pump pushing "out" of the MO-RA on each side of the QDC.  not perfect but about as good as it's going to get.  I have a few more sets of QDCs for the GPU and CPU but I'm pretty sure I'll only be using the GPU set when I get around to it.
 
as far as the EDPM plumbing in/out of the MORA, I saw the more complex builds too.  once the HK pump is primed and there is sufficient loop equilibrium, what difference does it make?  the exit pressure from each pump pulls from the top.  So.. what's the difference?  I was unable to find a good answer to that so I went with simplicity.  Heck, if someone has a technical explanation on why inlet/outlet is better than outlet/top multiport, I'm all ears.  I'm not too good to learn a thing :)
 
As far as fans, I'd definitely go with the HS A20s vs A20s or 140mms.  They have a max rpm of 1200rpm per spec.  The non HS versions cost the same money and only hit 800rpms.  Mine only get to 1100 but thats still 300 rpms better than the slower fan for the same money.  not perfect but I'll take it I guess.  They are truly silent at 40% or 480rpms.  No ringing, no whooshing, nothing.  At 100% or 1100+/- rpms, they are slightly more quiet than the Noctua NF-A14 at 100%.  the noise they produce is much more of a whoosh than a whine, like a 120 or 90mm.
 
My daily drive fan profile which I can also game on with overclocks is 50% case fans, 60% MORA.  so 750rpm case, 720 rpm MORA +/-.  its not silent but its incredibly quiet for the heat that the build generates.
 
now when I try to do a maximum sustained overclock for a bench or want to crank up the game OC, the MORA with fans at 100% is a whole different animal.  the rad puts off heat, sure.  But P/P 200mm fans move a comical amount of air, even with the partially restrictive side-by-side orientation of the cooler and my case right now.  but the entrance temp and exit temp feel significantly different.  I should get a pool bobber and throw it in the HK res and call it a day lol.
 
the other big thing I have observed is that getting the rads and obstructions out of the case and going fully external makes a big difference.  everyone says airflow counts, yada yada yada, it but its true.  case airflow counts.  there is only so much you can do when you have 4 rads in your build.  but if you get rid of all of the rads and its just fan city, I am able to sustain much higher memory overclocks at stock voltage and almost no change in reported temperatures.  I could hit those +mem numbers before but not at these temps.  the 3090 KPE backplate thread has a lot of detail on the insanity that went into my 3090 KPE, which I'll spare you from LOL.  you can see for yourself in some of the HWinfo screenshots.  it really becomes a matter of insufficient voltage and bios performance caps on power draw.
 
I would know the exact Delta T answer for some of this stuff but unfortunately the Z690 dark has no 2 pin T sensor, which baffles me.  $900 for a mobo and no temp sensor?  my $350 gigabyte z590 had two of them!  anyway, that is why I got the aquacomputer controller.  part of me wants to say forget it because the relative answer is good enough.  this post is getting long so I'll cut it off here. hope this helps with your build!
 
e: if youre really on the fence, LMK, I'll make a video for you at a few different fan % settings
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/09/14 06:20:34

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#34
kougar
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/14 15:48:49 (permalink)
Ah, that could be. And I understand, mixing tube sizes in a build is a terrible idea and especially bad in dual-pump builds since the flow rate will never match. I initially didn't clue in that the MO-RA3 came later in your build. 
 
Went with QD4s and the EK ZMT 1/2 x 3/4" tubing as I wanted to stick with high flow, and the DangerDen 1/2" Dreamflex tubing I'm using now was truly amazing stuff to work with. Unfortunately it was a DD custom formulation so I'm hoping ZMT is the next closest thing. But QD4s are like unheard of in builds, so stuff like that just makes me paranoid. 
 
 
redteamgothe other big thing I have observed is that getting the rads and obstructions out of the case and going fully external makes a big difference.  everyone says airflow counts, yada yada yada, it but its true.  case airflow counts.  there is only so much you can do when you have 4 rads in your build.  but if you get rid of all of the rads and its just fan city, I am able to sustain much higher memory overclocks at stock voltage and almost no change in reported temperatures.  I could hit those +mem numbers before but not at these temps.  the 3090 KPE backplate thread has a lot of detail on the insanity that went into my 3090 KPE, which I'll spare you from LOL.  you can see for yourself in some of the HWinfo screenshots.  it really becomes a matter of insufficient voltage and bios performance caps on power draw.


Yep, exactly! Airflow counts because that's the coolant. That's also the exact reason why I refused to ever build a system with a radiator on the intake fans. Even so in my current rig the inside case temp is warmer than I'd like. But I am tired of buying cases around radiator compatibility, I wanted a small, well-designed case and the MO-RA3 is perfect for enabling that. Nevermind it will be incredibly easy to disconnect the MO-RA3 and use a datavac on it outside, or that it will probably go a few years between needing more coolant.
 
Pretty crazy to me you're running the A20's below 800rpm! At that low a speed, you might get a degree or two lower temps by placing the MO-RA3 horizontal so the heat can convect upwards naturally.  Would tend to ruin such a convenient reservoir mount though, alas...  Thank you for the offer to record the fans! I might take you up on that but at the moment don't worry about it, hearing/recording is still such a subjective thing. But I do appreciate the offer! 
 
Going to be a few months yet before I can buy the parts, but I'll keep an eye on your build in the meantime! Your setup should be the ultimate in performance and ease-of-maintenance, with longevity that AIOs could only dream of. 


Have water, will cool. 
#35
donta1979
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/09/15 10:02:04 (permalink)
Scores looking good man!

Heatware   My Old School Drivers Updating/Installing Guide  
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#36
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/06 07:11:48 (permalink)
For my own sanity in the event I have to clear the CMOS and can't remember later lol
 
Freq 7200
Gear 2
VDD 1.4
tCL 36
tRCD 46
tRP 46
tRAS 30
tRRDs 6
tRRDl 8
tFAW 24

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#37
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/22 09:14:39 (permalink)
turns out that my MORA inlet outlet configuration is pretty far from ideal.  i said before that "once both D5's are primed, what difference does it make?"
 
well,it turns out that its a big difference.  mora 420 has 36m of copper tubing and I made those poor D5's work against gravity.  kind of amazing they havent blown up.  ready fire aim!

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#38
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/23 14:52:51 (permalink)
reorientated the MORA inlet/outlet, replaced the EK pump with one that has working PWM, cleaned up tubing etc, spilled 702 coolant everywhere, plenty of cursing, 5 hours and 2 paper towels later, I am done.  very annoying
 
but the win is that the WCU pump does not have the same high pitched ringing from the pump imbalance due to the EK not working properly.. flow rates also improved a lot by not working against gravity in the MORA.  
 
once I started, I saw that EK's RMA sent me a SATA pump without braided cables not braided molex/pwm like the original after I made about 20 minutes of movies explaining to them why their pump doesnt work to spec.  ****s
 
used a different pump I had with the right connectors.  
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/23 15:18:19

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#39
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 06:15:54 (permalink)
pic dump.  got a new desk for some more room a bit ago.  happy turkey day everyone.
 

 



post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/24 06:20:22

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#40
Flybye
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 07:06:28 (permalink)
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Gaming thing
i9-12900KF @ 5.25GHz
EVGA: Z690 Classified - RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra - Supernova 1200w P3 - DG-75
16GBs Patriot DDR5 4800 @ 5600 - Seagate: .5TB, 1TB M.2s, HD 4TB
Sony CRT 24" GDM-FW900 16:10 - DangerDen (RIP) Goodies: 2x120mm Rad & D5 + Primochill stuff
#41
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 09:26:51 (permalink)
Flybye
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Hey there, I think you read right.  In Prime95 workloads at 5.3/4.1 ghz pcore/ecore, its stable but it thermal throttles to 100 very quickly.  Under regular workloads, its far better.  Are you referring to a  contact frame made for 12th gen?  no i am using the retention mechanism that came with the Z690 Dark


I have the aquero XT6 but I didnt install it.  After fixing my MORA orientation, my flow rate is vastly improved and really temperatures didnt change much at all, which is good.  I'd rather just keep the 3x140mm
intake fans rather than 2x140 and the controller and more wires.
 
ps: happy thanksgiving!
 
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/24 09:54:54

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#42
Flybye
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/24 10:49:30 (permalink)
redteamgo
Flybye
Interesting and nice setup! I haven't played around with an external cooler like that in 15+ years.
 
Somewhere I think I read you were tapping 100c on full load. Did you end up buying the 1700 bracket?
 
Which Aqua controller did you get? I have the Octo, but I only use it to control fan speeds and view water & air temps. The software definitely has a lot of options to it.

Hey there, I think you read right.  In Prime95 workloads at 5.3/4.1 ghz pcore/ecore, its stable but it thermal throttles to 100 very quickly.  Under regular workloads, its far better.  Are you referring to a  contact frame made for 12th gen?  no i am using the retention mechanism that came with the Z690 Dark


I have the aquero XT6 but I didnt install it.  After fixing my MORA orientation, my flow rate is vastly improved and really temperatures didnt change much at all, which is good.  I'd rather just keep the 3x140mm
intake fans rather than 2x140 and the controller and more wires.
 
ps: happy thanksgiving!
 




Yeah this bracket:
https://www.microcenter.com/product/649280/thermal-grizzly-intel-12th-gen-cpu-contact-frame
 
There was a big discussion about it here, and I do believe it's been known to lower 100% load temps by 5-10c.
I haven't bothered to get it because I really don't feel like taking everything apart at this time. The only thing that drives me to 100% CPU is Cinebench which puts me just under 100c, but to finish it I had to put my fans at 100% and not use my front panel. But with gaming? I'm usually 50-60c with my fans at 50%. So why bother with the bracket for now lol.
 
Happy gooble gobble day as well!

Gaming thing
i9-12900KF @ 5.25GHz
EVGA: Z690 Classified - RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra - Supernova 1200w P3 - DG-75
16GBs Patriot DDR5 4800 @ 5600 - Seagate: .5TB, 1TB M.2s, HD 4TB
Sony CRT 24" GDM-FW900 16:10 - DangerDen (RIP) Goodies: 2x120mm Rad & D5 + Primochill stuff
#43
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/25 08:41:36 (permalink)
….
post edited by redteamgo - 2022/11/25 09:36:09

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#44
B0baganoosh
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/28 08:04:25 (permalink)
I love this build. I'm going to have a fairly similar one going in a few weeks.
 
On the contact frame subject, I had a nightmare with the z690 classified and 12900k trying to run one of those. I think the biggest issue was probably due to me overtightening the Optimus water block slightly. I'd get excellent temperatures, but the second time it would boot (and every time after that) I'd get post code 71 and I'd have to re-mount. I tried..........so many things. Check the Post code 71 thread in the z690 section lol. It was not fun. I ended up just sticking with the factory z690 bracket with the 12900k, even after I figured out the pressure thing. It was stable and cool enough so once it was working I left well enough alone.

What's interesting, is that I now have a 13900k and I've re-entered the contact frame arena. When I took my 12900k out after a few months of working correctly with the factory bracket, I did notice a pressure situation in the way the paste looked that indicated it was getting bad pressure right in the center from the factory bracket. So I decided to throw the thermal grizzly bracket back in (I still have an extra cheapo bracket if you want one), fairly gentle pressure per the original instructions. Then I put my Optimus block on with a bit lighter touch than I used to (which was always perfect with 11900k...but not so much with 12900k-13900k apparently) and so far, all is great.
 
What I also find can make a big difference is the paste. I would highly recommend the Prolimatech PK-3 nano, Kingpin KPx, or Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme (pink version). Those are the top ones I've looked at so far. I didn't used to see as much of a difference, but with 11900k-on, I've seen a pretty significant difference going from even Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut (non-pink) to KPx or PK-3. I believe it's just down to the wattage we're hitting these days. Thermal conductivity is rated in degrees/Watt. So add more watts, add more degree temperature delta from IHS to block. We're in crazy-town with the wattages lately and the paste seems to be more important than before, especially if you're looking for another 3-5°C somewhere.
post edited by B0baganoosh - 2022/11/28 10:47:35

6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use.
 
i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - G.Skill 32GB 6000MHz  - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - EVGA 1000W G3 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#45
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/29 05:58:11 (permalink)
Hey B0ba, that is sweet.  do you have everything picked out?  
 
on the contact frame, I did read through that thread.  it kind of scared me off and I stuck with the Dark's stock mounting solution.
 
trouble is as well that once the Z690Dark is in, the rotated socket doesn't allow you to remove the CPU block's backplate.. so I'd have to break down the entire rig and that just isnt happening lol.  contact frames will probably be a little more mature product lifecycle wise soon.  when I finally get the 13900k, i may take the plunge but I really don't feel any pressure to upgrade now.  there really isn't much to reach for performancewise other than having the newest thing.

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#46
B0baganoosh
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/29 06:57:33 (permalink)
redteamgo
Hey B0ba, that is sweet.  do you have everything picked out?  
 
on the contact frame, I did read through that thread.  it kind of scared me off and I stuck with the Dark's stock mounting solution.
 
trouble is as well that once the Z690Dark is in, the rotated socket doesn't allow you to remove the CPU block's backplate.. so I'd have to break down the entire rig and that just isnt happening lol.  contact frames will probably be a little more mature product lifecycle wise soon.  when I finally get the 13900k, i may take the plunge but I really don't feel any pressure to upgrade now.  there really isn't much to reach for performancewise other than having the newest thing.




Yup. Other than the water-cooled GPU. Sticking with my hybrid 3080ti for now. I'm curious about 7900XTX Liquid Devil when it launches, but I'll wait to see benchmarks. I may also just wait to see what comes out next year as I'm on a 1440p monitor and I just don't feel like dumping even more money on the monitor to make it worth upgrading to that tier of GPU. I like to push FPS and do benchmarks for fun, but I do feel like where the 4090 is at, especially for the price, I'm just wasting money if I'm still on a 1440p monitor. Not that any of my stuff is cheap...so idk...it's my main hobby we'll see what next year looks like lol. Anyway, you can follow the rabbit hole here. That's the plan, but there's a link to an old hardware post where I started playing with the idea and then put a parts list together.
 
Back to the frame, as I said I noticed the 12900k had started to develop that high-spot-low-spot look to the paste when I took the block off this time, so I figured it was worth putting all my experience from that previous drama to use and take a fresh stab at it.
 
I think I can try to summarize where I went wrong and why knowing what I know now I was comfortable trying it again with the new 13900k (maybe I should put this in that thread and the contact frame thread lol):
 
1. My Optimus water block doesn't utilize a backplate by default.
2. I did the install with the case in the upright position. So without a backplate behind the LGA1700 backplate, the LGA1700 backplate can come right off when you take off the factory bracket. I was careful, but I think there were times where this moved out of position.
3. I was also tightening my water block too much I think. There are no springs or anything, it's just knurled nuts on posts that you finger tighten and maybe I took their "just tighten until you can't finger tighten anymore" too literally.
>>Combine these items and what I believe was causing my issue was flexing of the board around the socket and all this flexing and potentially misaligned brackets led to intermittent contact quality, which led to issues.
 
So my adjusted successful steps:
A. I got one of the EKWB backplates they offered for free (you just pay shipping basically) because their old one wasn't compatible with LGA1700 and they made a new one to offer compatibility for their coolers. I then bought bolts that thread through the back of that EK backplate, some nylon washers, and some lock-nuts for it. The bolts are the same thread as the Optimus mounting posts (the block-side-size, not the original motherboard-side-size).
B. I put the original z690 bracket back on very carefully and made sure that it was tightened down in a manner that ensured the LGA1700 backplate was once-again correctly and evenly mounted.
C. Then I very carefully mounted the EK backplate behind that into the motherboard with the bolts, putting the nylon washers and nuts on the front of the motherboard. It is also important not to over-tighten this...I have a habit of that I guess(classic tighten until the bolt breaks, then back it off a quarter turn).
D. So with that in place, I can take off the factory bracket without the factory LGA1700 backplate moving as the EK one holds that in place now. This is critical.
E. This time, when I followed the steps from Thermal Grizzly and GN on installing the aftermarket bracket, it went much smoother.
F. I then put my water block on and adjusted their instructions to "just tighten until the nuts no longer easily finger tighten anymore" (it's subtle I guess lol) and I haven't had any of the frame-weirdness with the 13900k at all.

6Q6CPFHPBPCU691 is a discount code anyone can use.
 
i9 13900k - EVGA Z690 Classy - EVGA RTX 3080 ti FTW3 Ultra (+Hybrid Kit) - G.Skill 32GB 6000MHz  - WD SN850 2TB NVMe Gen4 - EVGA 1000W G3 - BeQuiet! Dark Base 900 Pro. Project Dark Water MODS RIGS post for build notes.
#47
charlesborner
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/11/29 11:06:49 (permalink)
Just came back to this thread.

Nice setup!


 
Ryzen 5950X, Alphacool Eisbaer 420mm, ASROCK Taichi Razer, NVIDIA 3070 Ti FE, 3x Samsung 980 Pro 1TB, 64GB Trident Neo Z DDR4000, Seasonic Focus GX-1000, Total Noctua Fan Swap (8x Redux NF-P14S, 2x Chromax A20), 4x10TB WD Gold in Synology 920+, Thermaltake Core X9
#48
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/01 15:07:05 (permalink)
B0baganoosh
redteamgo
Hey B0ba, that is sweet.  do you have everything picked out?  
 
on the contact frame, I did read through that thread.  it kind of scared me off and I stuck with the Dark's stock mounting solution.
 
trouble is as well that once the Z690Dark is in, the rotated socket doesn't allow you to remove the CPU block's backplate.. so I'd have to break down the entire rig and that just isnt happening lol.  contact frames will probably be a little more mature product lifecycle wise soon.  when I finally get the 13900k, i may take the plunge but I really don't feel any pressure to upgrade now.  there really isn't much to reach for performancewise other than having the newest thing.




Yup. Other than the water-cooled GPU. Sticking with my hybrid 3080ti for now. I'm curious about 7900XTX Liquid Devil when it launches, but I'll wait to see benchmarks. I may also just wait to see what comes out next year as I'm on a 1440p monitor and I just don't feel like dumping even more money on the monitor to make it worth upgrading to that tier of GPU. I like to push FPS and do benchmarks for fun, but I do feel like where the 4090 is at, especially for the price, I'm just wasting money if I'm still on a 1440p monitor. Not that any of my stuff is cheap...so idk...it's my main hobby we'll see what next year looks like lol. Anyway, you can follow the rabbit hole here. That's the plan, but there's a link to an old hardware post where I started playing with the idea and then put a parts list together.
 
Back to the frame, as I said I noticed the 12900k had started to develop that high-spot-low-spot look to the paste when I took the block off this time, so I figured it was worth putting all my experience from that previous drama to use and take a fresh stab at it.
 
I think I can try to summarize where I went wrong and why knowing what I know now I was comfortable trying it again with the new 13900k (maybe I should put this in that thread and the contact frame thread lol):
 
1. My Optimus water block doesn't utilize a backplate by default.
2. I did the install with the case in the upright position. So without a backplate behind the LGA1700 backplate, the LGA1700 backplate can come right off when you take off the factory bracket. I was careful, but I think there were times where this moved out of position.
3. I was also tightening my water block too much I think. There are no springs or anything, it's just knurled nuts on posts that you finger tighten and maybe I took their "just tighten until you can't finger tighten anymore" too literally.
>>Combine these items and what I believe was causing my issue was flexing of the board around the socket and all this flexing and potentially misaligned brackets led to intermittent contact quality, which led to issues.
 
So my adjusted successful steps:
A. I got one of the EKWB backplates they offered for free (you just pay shipping basically) because their old one wasn't compatible with LGA1700 and they made a new one to offer compatibility for their coolers. I then bought bolts that thread through the back of that EK backplate, some nylon washers, and some lock-nuts for it. The bolts are the same thread as the Optimus mounting posts (the block-side-size, not the original motherboard-side-size).
B. I put the original z690 bracket back on very carefully and made sure that it was tightened down in a manner that ensured the LGA1700 backplate was once-again correctly and evenly mounted.
C. Then I very carefully mounted the EK backplate behind that into the motherboard with the bolts, putting the nylon washers and nuts on the front of the motherboard. It is also important not to over-tighten this...I have a habit of that I guess(classic tighten until the bolt breaks, then back it off a quarter turn).
D. So with that in place, I can take off the factory bracket without the factory LGA1700 backplate moving as the EK one holds that in place now. This is critical.
E. This time, when I followed the steps from Thermal Grizzly and GN on installing the aftermarket bracket, it went much smoother.
F. I then put my water block on and adjusted their instructions to "just tighten until the nuts no longer easily finger tighten anymore" (it's subtle I guess lol) and I haven't had any of the frame-weirdness with the 13900k at all.


B0ba, thanks so much for laying all of that out.  It sounds like I need a real torque wrench so I dont overtighten and get it to the exact spec.  I am guilty of exactly what you said so many times.. overtighten, strip the thread and back it off.. lol too true.  If I can finagle the contact frame in without removing the backplate, and it does look like that is possible, I'm fine with that.  Its kind of crazy how much of a temperature performance gap there is due to where pressure is applied.  one would expect that the cpu block cooler might counteract the tendency to bow but apparently not.
 
I have my eye on the 13900 KF.  Was hoping to see some deals around thanksgiving but nothing yet.  its still $580.  I might make it another present to myself for christmas.  the jury is out  for now :P  I still have a 10900k, 11700k and an 11900k to sell.  hardware has a nasty habit of building up in my spare parts bin until its very deprecated and I end up just trashing it or giving it away.

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#49
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/01 15:07:33 (permalink)
charlesborner
Just came back to this thread.

Nice setup!


charles, thank you for checking in and appreciate the compliment.  hope youre doing great!

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#50
808sting
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/01 16:29:32 (permalink)
redteamgo, nice setup.  I had spec'd out almost the exact MO-RA3 setup, but was planning to using QD4 with reducers with 10/16 tubing.  Have a lot of ZMT and clear already.  Sorry if you mentioned it, but do you have a flow meter?  What's the flow with the pumps on max?
 
I ended up using the lazy solution, Koolance ERM-3K3U and will be replacing the fans for more quiet fan curve.
[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold"] 

i9 12900KS, Asus ROG Hero Z690 MB, 32GB G.Skill DDR5-6400
EVGA 3090Ti FTW3 Ultra
External open-loop w/Velocity2 WB
Corsair 900D Case
Firecuda SSD 1TB & 2TB, EVO 970P 1TB, Black 8TB
Asus & LG BD-RE
Corsair AX1600i PS
LG 38GL950B-G
#51
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/01 20:04:20 (permalink)
hey 808, thank you.  that is a good idea with the QD4 and reducers, I wish I thought of that.  it sounds like it will be less of a bottleneck.  would you do 10/16 -> reducer -> qd4 -> flipped reducer -> 10/16?  or 12/16 on the koolance side and 10/16 on the PC side?
 
I dont have a flow monitor.  i did get an aquacomputer 6XT but I didnt install it.. it was going to be too much of a production to feed the internal USB connector as the Z690 board is very tight in my case.  I would also have to sacrifice one of my 140mm intake fans to mount it as well.  so, I skipped it and its in the box.  ultimately, i judged flow by how easily i could bleed the loop as is but I should have gotten that bykski OLED widget just so had an actual figure for reference.  when I finally get a 13900kf, I will probably do so somewhere on the external passthrough.
 
but seriously, that koolance is awesome!  definitely not cheap but once you add up flow/temp sensors, a pump, res, large copper rad, dedicated readout and fans, you're in the same ballpark but you have a turnkey solution, which is really nice TBH.  how long have you had that?

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#52
808sting
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/01 21:03:59 (permalink)
I would've used 10/16 for everything since the Koolance ERM and most RADs use G1/4".  Tried to minimize restrictions by using triple rotary adapters.  I liked the larger flow and low spill of the QD4, but decided to use CPC NS6 fittings.  These are the largest quick disconnects that have 3/8" barb options.  EKWB used the smaller CPC NS4 QDs in their older kits.  That's where I first used them.
https://www.cpcworldwide.com/Liquid-Cooling/Products/PPSU-Plastic/NS6
Colder Products make some nice metal quick disconnects, but the NS6 was easier to source from freshwatersystems.com
 
The MO-RA3 would've have been cheaper and have way more capacity, but the Koolance was turn-key.  I've had it for a few months and it's quiet compared to my internal 360 RAD with push-pull fans.  I really like how your MO-RA3 looks with the 200mm fan housing and grill.  I saw the new Bykski and it uses (3) 360 RADs with complicated distro blocks.  I didn't want to use dual D5s if I didn't need it.  My flow is 4.3LPM on max and good enough for 30 min relatively quiet transcoding/rendering.
 
If I had more time and building a 2nd primary system replacement, I would go MO-RA3.  Been using my 900D case since it was released.  Now, you are case independent for future builds.  Too bad newer GPU cards are huge.
 

i9 12900KS, Asus ROG Hero Z690 MB, 32GB G.Skill DDR5-6400
EVGA 3090Ti FTW3 Ultra
External open-loop w/Velocity2 WB
Corsair 900D Case
Firecuda SSD 1TB & 2TB, EVO 970P 1TB, Black 8TB
Asus & LG BD-RE
Corsair AX1600i PS
LG 38GL950B-G
#53
Flybye
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/06 03:51:31 (permalink)
redteamgo...It sounds like I need a real torque wrench so I dont overtighten and get it to the exact spec....



I kept thinking about the same thing.  Sadly, torque wrenches that go low enough for that plate are not cheap considering I'd only buy it for that single purpose. The cheapest one I could find is this one on Amazon. I think I'd be too paranoid trying to manually tighten those screws.

Gaming thing
i9-12900KF @ 5.25GHz
EVGA: Z690 Classified - RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra - Supernova 1200w P3 - DG-75
16GBs Patriot DDR5 4800 @ 5600 - Seagate: .5TB, 1TB M.2s, HD 4TB
Sony CRT 24" GDM-FW900 16:10 - DangerDen (RIP) Goodies: 2x120mm Rad & D5 + Primochill stuff
#54
redteamgo
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Re: New Z690 / 3090 KPE / EK build coming!! 2022/12/06 06:31:04 (permalink)
Flybye
redteamgo...It sounds like I need a real torque wrench so I dont overtighten and get it to the exact spec....



I kept thinking about the same thing.  Sadly, torque wrenches that go low enough for that plate are not cheap considering I'd only buy it for that single purpose. The cheapest one I could find is this one on Amazon. I think I'd be too paranoid trying to manually tighten those screws.


ouch my balls, $200 with tax.  I might stick with the stock solution for now lol
 
808sting
I would've used 10/16 for everything since the Koolance ERM and most RADs use G1/4".  Tried to minimize restrictions by using triple rotary adapters.  I liked the larger flow and low spill of the QD4, but decided to use CPC NS6 fittings.  These are the largest quick disconnects that have 3/8" barb options.  EKWB used the smaller CPC NS4 QDs in their older kits.  That's where I first used them.
https://www.cpcworldwide.com/Liquid-Cooling/Products/PPSU-Plastic/NS6
Colder Products make some nice metal quick disconnects, but the NS6 was easier to source from freshwatersystems.com
 
The MO-RA3 would've have been cheaper and have way more capacity, but the Koolance was turn-key.  I've had it for a few months and it's quiet compared to my internal 360 RAD with push-pull fans.  I really like how your MO-RA3 looks with the 200mm fan housing and grill.  I saw the new Bykski and it uses (3) 360 RADs with complicated distro blocks.  I didn't want to use dual D5s if I didn't need it.  My flow is 4.3LPM on max and good enough for 30 min relatively quiet transcoding/rendering.
 
If I had more time and building a 2nd primary system replacement, I would go MO-RA3.  Been using my 900D case since it was released.  Now, you are case independent for future builds.  Too bad newer GPU cards are huge.
 




Its funny, I still have my 900D in my garage from 2013ish?  I just rebuilt in 2021 finally, that case served me well.  it is such a beast.  I can't bring myself to throw it out but its just gigantic.  With water cooling in it, it weighs easily 75lbs.. not extreme heavy but very awkward to move it around, even empty.
 
fwiw in general on the MORA, it seems like that the flow orientation change I made operating temperatures quite a bit worse.   I'm not quite sure what exactly caused the issue but my GPU temps are up 5-6C with those changes.  I added probably 4ish feet of EDPM to make the hose runs a bit more flexible so there is a touch more obstruction in case airflow but not a lot.  the MORA is as pictured.. a few more 90 degree fittings bit and the pump is pulling rather than passive.  not quite sure what to make of it.  I just dont have time to break it down again for a few weeks at the earliest.  kind of a bummer but this is why I have the QDCs.  Hopefully I can keep most of the 702 coolant preserved.  i got a 5000ml jug for $120 and i'd prefer not to waste it
 

CPU:     Intel 12900K EK 1700 Quantum Mag Acetel
GPU:     EVGA 3090 KPHC
MB:      EVGA Z690 Dark
PSU:     EVGA SuperNOVA 1600 P+
Memory:  G.SKILL Z5 6600mhz XMP3
NVME:    Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 1TB, Gen 3 970 1TB
Cooling: MO-RA3 420 P/P 8x200mm Noctua HS PWM, Dual D5
Case:    Fractal Design Define 7
 
MOD Rigs!!!
#55
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