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Hot!Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready

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rjohnson11
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2021/07/23 12:38:05 (permalink)
Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready for Primetime! | OC3D News (overclock3d.net)
 
Intel's 10nm technology has had a troubled history, so much so that it hasn't been used to create a mainstream desktop processor over four years after Intel first started shipping 10nm CPUs to customers. 

In 2017, Intel's 10nm lithography node was a disaster, so much so that Intel barely shipped any 10nm products until 2019's Ice Lake launch. Even then, Intel's 10nm silicon was restricted to relatively low volumes of relatively small low power mobile processors. 10nm delays were so harsh that even 2021's 11th Generation Rocket lake processors were still using the company's ageing 14nm lithography node, highlighting how poorly Intel's foundries were performing. 

Now, Intel appears to have turned a corner with their 10nm technology, announcing during their Q2 2021 earnings call that the company is now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers, signalling that 10nm is now Intel's lithography node of choice for new processors. Furthermore, Intel's CEO, Pat Gelsinger, has stated that Intel's 10nm wafer costs have been reduced by 45% since this time last year, making Intel's 10nm products significantly cheaper to produce. 

Intel's currently preparing to launch their 12th Generation Alder Lake processors, the company's first 10nm processor design to launch on both desktop and mobile platforms. Alder Lake is due to launch later this year and revamp the x86 CPU market with a hybrid architecture design that aims to deliver impressive levels of single-threaded and multi-threaded performance. 

With increased wafer productivity and reduced wafer costs, Intel's 10nm node is now ready to generate profit for the company. 10nm is finally ready for large scale manufacturing across the company's desktop, server and mobile product lines, and Intel's reduced manufacturing costs should help Intel generate higher margins with their latest 10nm product designs.
 
Intel plans to discuss the foundry side of its business in more detail this Monday (July 26th) at their next "Intel Accelerated" event. Here, Intel will discuss the company's"roadmap of process and packaging innovations" and the company's IDM 2.0 strategy. 

In short, Intel plans to become a foundry for 3rd party manufacturers and deliver services that are similar to TSMC, Globalfoundries and Samsung. To do this, Intel needs to attract customers and increase its manufacturing capacity. Next week, Intel will need to prove to the world that they have what it takes to become a success within this competitive market, as its future relies on it.  
 
I'm curious how AMD will respond. However, this delay from Intel has allowed AMD to be more competitive. In addition Intel can crank out more chips than AMD at TSMC.

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    random_matt
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/23 14:57:13 (permalink)
    Doesn't AMD have XT models soon?

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    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/23 17:21:19 (permalink)
    So reading about Alder Lake, it's suppose to have both PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 memory?

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    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/23 18:52:41 (permalink)
    kram36
    So reading about Alder Lake, it's suppose to have both PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 memory?


    Yes, which is great even if nothing PCI-E 5.0 is available, Pci-e 4.0 stuff will still run at its full speed and will be future proof. Intel was really behind on PCI-E 4.0, I was surprised they even bother with Rocket lake.
     

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    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/24 20:17:37 (permalink)
    Hum, my AMD system just may get relegated to audio recording and the Alder Lake will become my video rendering system.

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 02:09:08 (permalink)
    I still don't have any good info on AMD's Zen 3+ and whether those will release this year. TSMC can't make enough high end CPUs right now for AMD. Intel has their own fabs so they can crank out more chips.

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 02:50:33 (permalink)
    I am kind of surprised that Intel was still able to keep up fairly well with AMD at 14nm so going to 10nm should be a great improvement for Intel in it's war. Hopefully AMD is ready for a fight as it's the consumer who comes out ahead when two companies battle for the title of best.

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    rjohnson11
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 04:25:53 (permalink)
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 

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    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 06:56:59 (permalink)
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.

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    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 08:01:55 (permalink)
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.
    post edited by vegajf51 - 2021/07/25 08:06:51
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    veganfanatic
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 09:38:33 (permalink)
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    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/25 10:50:18 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?
     
    $4,799.99
     
    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.

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    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/26 04:59:19 (permalink)
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?
     
    $4,799.99
     
    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.




    Exactly, AMD is offering 64 core CPU, exactly the same as the top-of-the-line server. Intel had a 28 core that retailed for over 10K at the time but wouldn't even release it on HEDT... lol. You are just reinforcing rjohnson11 point. Competition is actually making Intel not only bring prices down but actually release some of its better CPUs period.
    #13
    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/26 08:58:45 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?
     
    $4,799.99
     
    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.




    Exactly, AMD is offering 64 core CPU, exactly the same as the top-of-the-line server. Intel had a 28 core that retailed for over 10K at the time but wouldn't even release it on HEDT... lol. You are just reinforcing rjohnson11 point. Competition is actually making Intel not only bring prices down but actually release some of its better CPUs period.


    The 3990X is not a server chip. The EPYC 7763 is a server chip that cost.
     
    $7,890.00
     
    AMD has risen their prices just like Intel did when they had the lead. You said AMD wished they could get $1,700 for a CPU and I just showed you they are well over $1,700 for a desktop HEDT CPU.

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    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/26 19:51:02 (permalink)
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?
     
    $4,799.99
     
    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.




    Exactly, AMD is offering 64 core CPU, exactly the same as the top-of-the-line server. Intel had a 28 core that retailed for over 10K at the time but wouldn't even release it on HEDT... lol. You are just reinforcing rjohnson11 point. Competition is actually making Intel not only bring prices down but actually release some of its better CPUs period.


    The 3990X is not a server chip. The EPYC 7763 is a server chip that cost.
     
    $7,890.00
     
    AMD has risen their prices just like Intel did when they had the lead. You said AMD wished they could get $1,700 for a CPU and I just showed you they are well over $1,700 for a desktop HEDT CPU.


    You literally just repeated what you said earlier, and muddying the waters with a fake argument.

    #1 No one said AMD hasn’t raised prices. NO ONE
    #2 RJ said competition affects pricing where you said “BS”…… BS indeed lol
    #3 Intel was charging $1700 for a unlocked low end 10 core server cpu and “marketing” it as top of the line hedt, they had higher core counts…. Where were they?. You think Intel could market a low end lower core count server cpu as top of the line hedt and sell it for that price today?

    Completion affecting pricing is just BS…. Right! 😂

    Also AMD is offering HEDT core count that matches server, just unlocked so yes they are doing better. AMD could have just released the 32 core, but they didn’t. AMD is no angel possibly ZEN 4 AMD will release a low end epyc server cpu as top of the line threadripper like Intel was doing.
    #15
    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/26 23:16:28 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?
     
    $4,799.99
     
    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.




    Exactly, AMD is offering 64 core CPU, exactly the same as the top-of-the-line server. Intel had a 28 core that retailed for over 10K at the time but wouldn't even release it on HEDT... lol. You are just reinforcing rjohnson11 point. Competition is actually making Intel not only bring prices down but actually release some of its better CPUs period.


    The 3990X is not a server chip. The EPYC 7763 is a server chip that cost.
     
    $7,890.00
     
    AMD has risen their prices just like Intel did when they had the lead. You said AMD wished they could get $1,700 for a CPU and I just showed you they are well over $1,700 for a desktop HEDT CPU.


    You literally just repeated what you said earlier, and muddying the waters with a fake argument.

    #1 No one said AMD hasn’t raised prices. NO ONE
    #2 RJ said competition affects pricing where you said “BS”…… BS indeed lol
    #3 Intel was charging $1700 for a unlocked low end 10 core server cpu and “marketing” it as top of the line hedt, they had higher core counts…. Where were they?. You think Intel could market a low end lower core count server cpu as top of the line hedt and sell it for that price today?

    Completion affecting pricing is just BS…. Right! 😂

    Also AMD is offering HEDT core count that matches server, just unlocked so yes they are doing better. AMD could have just released the 32 core, but they didn’t. AMD is no angel possibly ZEN 4 AMD will release a low end epyc server cpu as top of the line threadripper like Intel was doing.

    I did not repeat myself.  You said AMD wished they could get $1,700, which I proved you wrong about. No reason to get all mad at me about it, it's just facts.

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    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 06:10:48 (permalink)
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    kram36
    rjohnson11
    Competition also has to do with price so I'm very curious what the pricing will be for next gen Intel and AMD processors. 


    BS, soon as AMD got the lead, they priced their processors just as bad if not worse then Intel.


    Lol, someone is forgetting the Intel 6950x, 10 core broadwell for over $1700 in late 2016. AMD wish’s it could get to that point but it’s not there yet.

    What is crazy is I bought my current Ryzen X370 board about 8 months after that 6950x launch, and even with buying the original 1700 and upgrading it to a 5900x I am still under the cost of just the 6950x CPU, plus the 5900x will runs circles around it.

    You're comparing Intel's top of the line HEDT CPU at that time to a regular desktop CPU price. What is the price on a current AMD's top 3990X HEDT CPU?

    $4,799.99

    And this isn't including AMD's even higher price WX HEDT CPU.




    Exactly, AMD is offering 64 core CPU, exactly the same as the top-of-the-line server. Intel had a 28 core that retailed for over 10K at the time but wouldn't even release it on HEDT... lol. You are just reinforcing rjohnson11 point. Competition is actually making Intel not only bring prices down but actually release some of its better CPUs period.


    The 3990X is not a server chip. The EPYC 7763 is a server chip that cost.

    $7,890.00

    AMD has risen their prices just like Intel did when they had the lead. You said AMD wished they could get $1,700 for a CPU and I just showed you they are well over $1,700 for a desktop HEDT CPU.


    You literally just repeated what you said earlier, and muddying the waters with a fake argument.

    #1 No one said AMD hasn’t raised prices. NO ONE
    #2 RJ said competition affects pricing where you said “BS”…… BS indeed lol
    #3 Intel was charging $1700 for a unlocked low end 10 core server cpu and “marketing” it as top of the line hedt, they had higher core counts…. Where were they?. You think Intel could market a low end lower core count server cpu as top of the line hedt and sell it for that price today?

    Completion affecting pricing is just BS…. Right! 😂

    Also AMD is offering HEDT core count that matches server, just unlocked so yes they are doing better. AMD could have just released the 32 core, but they didn’t. AMD is no angel possibly ZEN 4 AMD will release a low end epyc server cpu as top of the line threadripper like Intel was doing.

    I did not repeat myself.  You said AMD wished they could get $1,700, which I proved you wrong about. No reason to get all mad at me about it, it's just facts.


    Yet, you do it again.

    Take my quote out of context by leaving out the 10 core part and not even mentioning the part you got wrong which was the part I responded to.

    Classic strawman argument to the definition.

    Do you happen to work for the mainstream media? You seem well trained in muddying arguments.
    #17
    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 10:17:33 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    Yet, you do it again.

    Take my quote out of context by leaving out the 10 core part and not even mentioning the part you got wrong which was the part I responded to.

    Classic strawman argument to the definition.

    Do you happen to work for the mainstream media? You seem well trained in muddying arguments.

    Yes I did it again, proved you wrong. Shut the front door, AMD has raised their prices way beyond what you said AMD wished they could sell a processor for. AMD is no longer a budget friendly company which helped them stick around. Now that they have the lead, they are taking every penny they can get out of you suckers that still thinks AMD cares about you.
     
    AMD is no different then Intel.

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    #18
    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 16:06:21 (permalink)
    kram36
    vegajf51
    Yet, you do it again.

    Take my quote out of context by leaving out the 10 core part and not even mentioning the part you got wrong which was the part I responded to.

    Classic strawman argument to the definition.

    Do you happen to work for the mainstream media? You seem well trained in muddying arguments.

    Yes I did it again, and still got it all wrong.
     
    AMD is no different then Intel.


    Lol, fixed the quote as you have yet to even mention the thing we originally were talking about, figures. 😂

    And yes as I already said AMD is no angel but you already know that, just throwing another strawman my way I see. So I refer you to my earlier post for further details on the original discussion.

    Curious what detail you will take out of context next to deflect from talking about your original post.
    #19
    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 18:01:48 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    kram36
    vegajf51
    Yet, you do it again.

    Take my quote out of context by leaving out the 10 core part and not even mentioning the part you got wrong which was the part I responded to.

    Classic strawman argument to the definition.

    Do you happen to work for the mainstream media? You seem well trained in muddying arguments.

    Yes I did it again, and still got it all wrong.
     
    AMD is no different then Intel.


    Lol, fixed the quote as you have yet to even mention the thing we originally were talking about, figures. 😂

    And yes as I already said AMD is no angel but you already know that, just throwing another strawman my way I see. So I refer you to my earlier post for further details on the original discussion.

    Curious what detail you will take out of context next to deflect from talking about your original post.

    Why are you even replying back? You have ZERO to add to the thread with your nonsense.
     
    You compared an HEDT CPU price to a regular desktop CPU and said AMD wished they could get $1,700 for a CPU. I should you your error with AMD's HEDT CPU that cost almost 3X what you complained about Intel on.
     
    AMD is no different then Intel. Neither of them gives a rats behind about you and never has. When either has the performance advantage, they are going to take as much money out of your pocket as they can.

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    #20
    vegajf51
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 19:06:57 (permalink)
    kram36
     Neither of them gives a rats behind about you and never has. When either has the performance advantage, they are going to take as much money out of your pocket as they can.




    Bingo! Which is exactly what RJ said. "Competition also has to do with price" Which you called BS, and proceeded to say AMD was as bad if not worse then Intel.
     
    I tried to give you a history lesson on the subject but you proceeded to muddy the argument, but I will agree with you on the point I have nothing further to add. I literally explained it as well as I could with actual facts. So if it makes you feel better we can both agree you misspoke when you called RJ's statement "BS" I should have just bit my tongue and went on as explaining basic economics on an online forum is silly.
     
     
    post edited by vegajf51 - 2021/07/27 19:11:42
    #21
    kram36
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    Re: Intel's now manufacturing more 10nm wafers than 14nm wafers - 10nm's finally ready 2021/07/27 19:16:51 (permalink)
    vegajf51
    kram36
     Neither of them gives a rats behind about you and never has. When either has the performance advantage, they are going to take as much money out of your pocket as they can.




    Bingo! Which is exactly what RJ said. "Competition also has to do with price" Which you called BS, and proceeded to say AMD was as bad if not worse then Intel
     worse than Intel.
     
    I tried to give you a history lesson on the subject but you proceeded to muddy the argument, but I will agree with you on the point I have nothing further to add. I literally explained it as well as I could with actual facts. So if it makes you feel better we can both agree you misspoke when you called RJ's statement "BS" I should have just bit my tongue and went on as explaining basic economics on an online forum is silly.
     
     


    I didn't miss speak at all. I stand firm on my post. Stop being an arrogant ****.

    Is is BS, AMD is now acting just like Intel on pricing. Cheese and rice, why are you being such an idiot about it? You gave no history lesson, you tried to give excuses for AMD raising their prices.

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    #22
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