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CPU is throttling at per core OC

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Ki2Is
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2020/02/01 10:22:37 (permalink)
CPU:7900x
Motherboard: x299 FTW K
Bios: v.1.22

Hi,
I've tried to overclock CORE 0, per core.
Input Voltage: 1.850v
4.8ghz 1.213v NO Throttling (OCCT small data set 1Hour stable)
4.9ghz 1.275v Throttling
It drops by 100-200Mhz.

I figured out, anything set over 1.24v, starts throttling, doesn't matter if 4.8 or 4.9ghz.
The higher I set the voltage, the higher is the drop. 4.8ghz 1.35v, drop by 500mhz.

Temperature stays at 85 C max.

I've already disabled C-States and set Windows Power Plan from Balanced to High, but nothing changed.
Both EPS power cables, 8+8, are connected to the motherboard.

The Bios has no current limit and no LLC settings.
#1

22 Replies Related Threads

    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/01 13:34:38 (permalink)
    When you run OCCT are you running it with AVX enabled or disabled? Do you have the paid version of the software or the free version of the software? 
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/01 13:36:41

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    #2
    Monstieur
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/01 18:16:24 (permalink)
    Input Voltage should be 1.95+ V. You should also increase the long / short duration power limit in addition to current limit. Adaptive voltage does not increase the voltage of CPU cores with higher VIDs. Some cores have VIDs close to 1.35 V at 4.9 GHz. Always set an Offset to increase core voltage at Turbo frequencies.
    post edited by Monstieur - 2020/02/01 18:19:50
    #3
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 00:50:59 (permalink)
    I'm using OCCT 4.5.1 free version
    #4
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 00:55:29 (permalink)
    Monstieur
    Input Voltage should be 1.95+ V. You should also increase the long / short duration power limit in addition to current limit. Adaptive voltage does not increase the voltage of CPU cores with higher VIDs. Some cores have VIDs close to 1.35 V at 4.9 GHz. Always set an Offset to increase core voltage at Turbo frequencies.


    I've already had the Input Voltage set to 2.0v, hasn't change anything.

    Where in the Bios can I find the "long / short duration power limit" setting?

    Generally, I'm overclocking with a fixed voltage until it's stable and then I'm switching the voltage mode to offset voltage.
    post edited by Ki2Is - 2020/02/02 01:01:45
    #5
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 05:43:51 (permalink)
    Ki2Is
    I'm using OCCT 4.5.1 free version



    There is a known issue with the Intel Microcode for X299 CPUs that will cause the CPU to throttle when AVX-512 instructions are being used in combination with voltage overrides. This issue is discussed at length over in this post, https://forums.evga.com/X299-Dark-BIOS-v118-Possible-BugIssue-m2975001.aspx. This MAY be what your experiencing as I am pretty sure the free version of OCCT uses AVX instructions by default. The only way to now for sure is for you to purchase the paid version of OCCT and do additional testing, which I would recommend doing regardless otherwise you are not fully testing the CPU and will not know if your overclock is stable. 

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    #6
    the_Scarlet_one
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 05:46:32 (permalink)
    Make sure your AVX offset is set to 0 as well.
    #7
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 06:20:59 (permalink)
    jasoncodispoti
    Ki2Is
    I'm using OCCT 4.5.1 free version



    There is a known issue with the Intel Microcode for X299 CPUs that will cause the CPU to throttle when AVX-512 instructions are being used in combination with voltage overrides. This issue is discussed at length over in this post, . This MAY be what your experiencing as I am pretty sure the free version of OCCT uses AVX instructions by default. The only way to now for sure is for you to purchase the paid version of OCCT and do additional testing, which I would recommend doing regardless otherwise you are not fully testing the CPU and will not know if your overclock is stable. 


    OCCT 4.5.1 has different options that you can choose, Small Data Set = uses AVX, and Large Data Set= NO AVX use.
    I'm rendering a lot, so I need to test the stability with the option Small Data Set.

    I've read the thread above.
    I have the x299 FTW K motherboard, not the x299 Dark.
    So, that means that issue doesn't come up with Bios 1.17 ?
    #8
    bob16314
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 07:07:59 (permalink)
    If you read reviews like here at Tom's Hardware, you'll see that those things run notoriously on the hot side..Intel opted to use thermal paste (Dow Corning stuff, I presume) between the CPU die and IHS instead of Indium-based solder like on some other CPUs.
     
    You should try liquid metal TIM such as Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (with a whopping 73 W/mk thermal conductivity) between your cooler and IHS, but then the Intel stock paste would act as a barrier..Ideally, you'd want to delid the thing and use Conductonaut between the die and IHS too.

    Other than that, go for the best cooler you can get and/or try getting the Vcore down as low as possible, or get another/better mobo that has Vdroop control/better voltage control in the BIOS.
     
    Just food for thought here.

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    #9
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 07:51:56 (permalink)
    What kind of rendering do you do? Rendering is pretty much the one and only area that AVX is really used, especially AVX-512 and that is where the problem is at. You can manually select any of the CPU instruction sets with the paid version of OCCT if however you are sure that the free version is not using AVX with the large data set than most likely you are not running into the issue that I am talking about. 
     
    Also to be clear, this issue I am talking about is not a motherboard issue... It is CPU microcode issue with Skylake-X X299 CPUs that is a result of a recent microcode update from Intel. Also I am not sure what BIOS version for your motherboard includes the microcode update that broke AVX-512, you would need to check with EVGA on that or do some testing. Also EVGA has confirmed that this issue impacts other mother board manufactures as well. 
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/02 07:56:14

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    #10
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/02 07:55:03 (permalink)
    bob16314
    If you read reviews like here at Tom's Hardware, you'll see that those things run notoriously on the hot side..Intel opted to use thermal paste (Dow Corning stuff, I presume) between the CPU die and IHS instead of Indium-based solder like on some other CPUs.

    You should try liquid metal TIM such as Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (with a whopping 73 W/mk thermal conductivity) between your cooler and IHS, but then the Intel stock paste would act as a barrier..Ideally, you'd want to delid the thing and use Conductonaut between the die and IHS too.

    Other than that, go for the best cooler you can get and/or try getting the Vcore down as low as possible, or get another/better mobo that has Vdroop control/better voltage control in the BIOS.

    Just food for thought here.



    Agree with this 100% as well, you are going to run into overheating issues long before other issues with that CPU... You mentioned above that you are hitting max temp of 85C. If that is the max temp when running OCCT Large Data Set with AVX disabled... than your CPU is running HOT. Generally speaking X299 does not like temps above 80C, I would aim to keep makes temps at or below 80C. 

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    #11
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 06:22:40 (permalink)
    I am running AVX enabled, as said in my 1st post.
    The 7900x can run up to 95C.
    The temperature is not the problem, it is the lack of the current limit settings in the BIOS.
     
    X299 FTW K Review by Joe Shields on January 29, 2018 8:45 AM EST, from AnandTech:
    https: //www.anandtech.com/show/12092/the-evga-x299-ftw-k-motherboard-review/3

    Quote:
    What is missing is LLC adjustments as well as any pre-configured multi-core enhancement. Neither are a big deal in the overall scheme of things, but they are certainly not there. Also notably missing is any sort of power limit adjustments. In many boards, there are power limits in place to keep the process functioning within its parameters and this can limit overclocking capabilities. A simple adjustment to those parameters and users are on their way.
    post edited by Ki2Is - 2020/02/03 08:08:32
    #12
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:01:43 (permalink)
    Sorry, I did not see anything in your original post regarding AVX settings. At least with the paid version of OCCT the dataset does not dictate the instruction set used, you can choose any instruction set. Also AVX is not really used that much in rendering AVX2 and AVX-512 are used most often. From the conversations and testing that I have done there are NO current/power limits on the X299 platform as whole, both are set to unlimited. I know for sure that the X299 Dark from EVGA does not have any power limits configured at the motherboard level I would say that neither does the board that you are using, but you can check with EVGA. 
     
    I would say that you have one of the following or a combination of the following...
    - Overclock is just not stable
    - You are running into the Microcode issue with AVX-512 and either need to use an older BIOS or reach out to EVGA
     
    I can help you determine if its the Microcode issue if you want, but you may need to purchase the paid version of OCCT. I would need to go back and look at my notes to see the best way of reproducing the issue. 
     
    Edit: 
    Corrected post to show that X299 as a whole does not have power limits. 
    post edited by jasoncodispoti - 2020/02/03 08:12:15

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    #13
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:14:41 (permalink)
    It wouldn`t bother me to use an older Bios, but anything below Bios v.1.20 has no PerCore voltage control for Vcore.
    #14
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:18:50 (permalink)
    Ki2Is
    It wouldn`t bother me to use an older Bios, but anything below Bios v.1.20 has no PerCore voltage control for Vcore.




    Do this first... Submit a ticket to EVGA support and lets get an official answer on the "power limits" for the FTW K. Lets just make sure that there are no power limits on that board before moving forward with other testing. 

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    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:23:50 (permalink)
    Ok, how can I submit a ticket to EVGA support, is there an Email ?
    #16
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:24:53 (permalink)
    Which Country are you in? 

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    #17
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:26:40 (permalink)
    Germany
    #18
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:29:47 (permalink)
    Hmm, I would think its the same for Germany as it is for the US. Register your motherboard on the EVGA site if you have not done so already. Than you should be able to go Member >> Service >> Contact Technical Support.  

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    #19
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/03 08:32:29 (permalink)
    Ok thanks.
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    EVGA_Lee
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/05 16:55:52 (permalink)
    Ki2Is
    jasoncodispoti
    Ki2Is
    I'm using OCCT 4.5.1 free version



    There is a known issue with the Intel Microcode for X299 CPUs that will cause the CPU to throttle when AVX-512 instructions are being used in combination with voltage overrides. This issue is discussed at length over in this post, . This MAY be what your experiencing as I am pretty sure the free version of OCCT uses AVX instructions by default. The only way to now for sure is for you to purchase the paid version of OCCT and do additional testing, which I would recommend doing regardless otherwise you are not fully testing the CPU and will not know if your overclock is stable. 


    OCCT 4.5.1 has different options that you can choose, Small Data Set = uses AVX, and Large Data Set= NO AVX use.
    I'm rendering a lot, so I need to test the stability with the option Small Data Set.

    I've read the thread above.
    I have the x299 FTW K motherboard, not the x299 Dark.
    So, that means that issue doesn't come up with Bios 1.17 ?

    As Jason noted, this is a known issue with SKX processors and the newest Intel microcode.  I'll send you the file for the E297 FTW K.  It's based on BIOS 1.22, but with older microcode that does not generate this issue.  Keep in mind that this is provided as-is, and EVGA does not guarantee that the processor (or system) will be protected against vulnerabilities patched with newer microcode released by Intel.
     
    The alternative is to use adaptive/offset voltages, instead of override voltages.  The trigger for this is when you manually use override voltages.
    #21
    jasoncodispoti
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/07 06:04:49 (permalink)
    @Thanks EVGATech_LeeM, was going to get him to reach out once I knew for sure that is what was going on. 

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    #22
    Ki2Is
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    Re: CPU is throttling at per core OC 2020/02/07 15:40:44 (permalink)
    @EVGATech_LeeM
    Thanks for reworked BIOS, worked as designed.
    Perfect for overclocking purposes on the 2nd BIOS chip.
    The only things I've noticed:
    On BIOS 1.22, single CORE#0 4.8Ghz overclock was stable @1.212v.
    When I was running the reworked BIOS, I'd to bump the voltage to 1.275v to get a stable overclock again.
    So, it appears, not just impacting stability over 1.24v, but the overall stability by using override mode on BIOS 1.22, either.

    Realy fast and reliable support.
    Appreciate it.
    post edited by Ki2Is - 2020/02/07 16:00:31
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