rjohnson11
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https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/nvidia_is_set_to_tap_tsmc_s_7nm_node_in_2019/1 DigiTimes has reported that Nvidia plans to make use of TSMC's 7nm technology in 2019, bringing the company in line with AMD's future designs when it comes to process technology, allowing them to take advantage of the same performance, power and density benefits as their competition. Nvidia's use of 7nm technology will allow them to deliver a notable generation-over-generation performance/efficiency leap over Turing, even without significant changes to their underlying graphics architecture. To be honest, it isn't big news that Nvidia is planning to tap TSMC's 7nm technology, as their move to newer process tech was a given. Cutting-edge graphics processors require leading-edge lithography to perform at their best, and leaving processes like 7nm on the shelf only serves to hand their competition, in this case AMD, a major technological advantage. So in my personal opinion we'll see RTX style cards in 2019 at 7nm.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/10 02:56:19
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Ok this is glorious news. Looks like AMD forced Nvidia's hand FINALLY! Now I'm waiting in hopes they tweak out all the issues with RTX and for content to be available and ready. Prices? Yes because early adopters payed a ridiculous premium to get RTX off the grounds, I hope and guess pricing will not be the same and be reduced back to norm. The limited stock is starting to make sense now. I hope they tell us this is coming in the Spring-Summer time frame as usual. Now for pages filled with buyers remorse outcries incoming in 3....2....1..... Edit: Ok scratch all that. I'm not waiting for an RTX 7nm in 2020 from this apparent roadmap unless all has since changed to what I previously read from this thread.
post edited by GTXJackBauer - 2018/11/10 03:11:25
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/10 04:58:30
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1. this is only for AMD's professional cards Navi 10 and they won't be out in any significant numbers until MID year 2019
2.NVidia will do the same with the 7nm seeing their Ampere(im assuming) will debut in MARCh17
3 New AMD and NVidia Consumer cards will be 6 months or more later(my guess 1yr) - consider any new Lith and shrink will be pricy and you want to Sell the limited supply to High end HPC - WHERE THE $$$$ is
like TSMC has limited production and TOO MANY customers - so where is the supply????
then talk about bidding wars for the limited production- so prices will be high
and then dram prices HBM2 or 3 & GDDR6 - will be pricy - because samsung is limiting production to keep prices high
and maybe the cards may have 2x the memory increase again - think 16GB cards or 24GB for ti
it is crazy to assume we will see consumer cards on 7nm anytime soon - there is just not enough fab space
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lehpron
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/10 11:08:44
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Shrinking allows for more cores and higher frequency, what else is new? Oh, I know, it's competition (or lack thereof) that determines if we'll see such touted gains and if they are affordable-- I'm not bitter because I have a 1080 Ti, but I don't like this way of things.
Navi (and likely Arcturus) is aimed at mid-range because it has the largest market share, and Intel is probably aiming for it too.
So with some understanding, I can see nVidia using 7nm to raise the bar with higher specs to justify the price they set for everything better than mid-range.
But still, the move to 7nm won't force "the best" cheaper, it's not about us, 7nm allows less resource cost at same MSRP = higher profit, because there still won't be high end competition. In other words, RTX3080 will still debut at $600+. Will it be faster than RTX2080Ti with less power? Sure, otherwise it won't sell.
nVidia should do something different, not just features: Make an APU on steroids with a full version of Win10, grab four or eight A76 ARM cores and pair them with a large Turing die, more than double Denver. Why let Qualcomm have the fun against Intel's mobile platforms, nVidia has a unique advantage to become quite destructive. They should make socketable ARM desktop systems.
Not like it can't be done, I figure the market is thin. It's no different than gaming with hybrid ray tracing...
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 00:34:26
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Oh I agree with you there lephron
Nvidia "COULD" produce a APU for desktop using Arm and Tesla/ampere - but they won't.... I just don't see it
Too much competition and that means less $$$ - unless you REALLY put something out there innovative and really outperforms everyone else
ARM HAS mobile - and you really have to be on the front end of that to win there - and may win the desktop if they can produce the same performance using less power
AMD is going to win more CPU market share until Intel get their Ass in shape - and Nvidia won't start entering any x86 market
even though we have VIA back in the game (they were the only other one with x86 rights - -think cyrix)
the focus for Nvidia is HPC and CAR/robotics/AI - consumer Video cards is just icing on the cake
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wmmills
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 02:28:48
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I told you guys, don't buy this first gen nvidia mess of a drop 2xxx series. Its too much money for too much beta soft/hard changes, which of course means a the second "refined drop" will be the one to grab with all the improvements, bugs worked out and probably more properly priced, especially if AMD is dropping something too.
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rjohnson11
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 04:01:17
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wmmills
I told you guys, don't buy this first gen nvidia mess of a drop 2xxx series. Its too much money for too much beta soft/hard changes, which of course means a the second "refined drop" will be the one to grab with all the improvements, bugs worked out and probably more properly priced, especially if AMD is dropping something too.
There is no way to know if pricing will increase further in 2019 for the new die shrink for the NVIDIA cards.
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seth89
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 06:09:40
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wmmills
I told you guys, don't buy this first gen nvidia mess of a drop 2xxx series. Its too much money for too much beta soft/hard changes, which of course means a the second "refined drop" will be the one to grab with all the improvements, bugs worked out and probably more properly priced, especially if AMD is dropping something too.
Yeah I felt the same way, series was and is a pioneer in a technology nobody has yet. I compared it to the release of BFG Ageia PPU. While the tech was awesome and was support by only a few games it was way too much money and something better was around the corner (as I learned first hand). Just typical early adopter stuff I guess.
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bdary
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 07:00:25
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wmmills
I told you guys, don't buy this first gen nvidia mess of a drop 2xxx series. Its too much money for too much beta soft/hard changes, which of course means a the second "refined drop" will be the one to grab with all the improvements, bugs worked out and probably more properly priced, especially if AMD is dropping something too.
+1. Staying put with my 1080 here. I'm patiently waiting for the next round of RTX cards to come out. By then I imagine they'll have the drivers all figured out, a bit better performance, and if lucky, better pricing. Who knows, maybe even a few games using the tech...
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 08:09:17
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I got this feeling like I have dejavu all over again. I feel like RTX 2080 Ti reminds me of the power hungry and hot running Fermi GTX 480s. Eventually they took it and make it more efficient, etc aka GTX 580s.
Anyone else feel the same?
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 11:16:06
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there are some of us that can't wait for an upgrade (like 2020) because we are already on legacy GPU's Can't run some of the new games I want the only issue i have is current AVAIL of RTX TI in stock _NONE_ and it's not getting any Better with XMAS coming and black fri Scalpers are gonna be making a fortune
post edited by Xavier Zepherious - 2018/11/11 11:20:35
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Ravenmaster
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 11:47:59
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GTXJackBauer
I got this feeling like I have dejavu all over again. I feel like RTX 2080 Ti reminds me of the power hungry and hot running Fermi GTX 480s. Eventually they took it and make it more efficient, etc aka GTX 580s.
Anyone else feel the same?
My thoughts exactly
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seth89
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 14:47:59
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Ravenmaster
GTXJackBauer
I got this feeling like I have dejavu all over again. I feel like RTX 2080 Ti reminds me of the power hungry and hot running Fermi GTX 480s. Eventually they took it and make it more efficient, etc aka GTX 580s.
Anyone else feel the same?
My thoughts exactly
Yes.
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Bruno747
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/11 16:49:07
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GTXJackBauer
I got this feeling like I have dejavu all over again. I feel like RTX 2080 Ti reminds me of the power hungry and hot running Fermi GTX 480s. Eventually they took it and make it more efficient, etc aka GTX 580s.
Anyone else feel the same?
Bit of a different scenario but yes. 480 was hot due to "leakage" on the process node. Once the node was mature and leakage was addressed gtx 580 full gf100 appeared. The node Turing is on is already well mature. Turing is just massive and needs a die shrink to move forward. I hypothesised that Nvidia would expand Turing on 7nm and release a new Titan and hpc card. The Titan being at least Titan v prices or higher. It's unlikely ampere will happen in 2019 cause Nvidia needs to recoup Turing costs even if a significant portion of Turing r&d was actually Volta r&d that they got back with the dgx platform.
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Stefem
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 07:07:41
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GTXJackBauer
Ok this is glorious news. Looks like AMD forced Nvidia's hand FINALLY! Lol, what? TSMC 7nm just entered volume production for high performance chip and is still not mature, yields aren't really that good. I know many like to see AMD as the hero who forced the evil Intel to start innovating again (and on a certain way I could even agree with that vision *), but NVIDIA isn't Intel which was on "maintenance mode", they have this "compete with yourself or die" vision and they kept pushing things forward even while the competition was sleeping. The next node was already on roadmap even before AMD first announced its ZEN architecture. * (then we can consider it's thanks to Intel if AMD finally introduced a competitive design, which shows how distorted this way of thinking is albeit being somehow true) GTXJackBauerNow I'm waiting in hopes they tweak out all the issues with RTX and for content to be available and ready.
Prices? Yes because early adopters payed a ridiculous premium to get RTX off the grounds, I hope and guess pricing will not be the same and be reduced back to norm. Never thought that the impressive die sizes and the very new ram tech may have something to do with the price being higher than the past series? and here comes another bad news, do you asked yourself why AMD is targeting professional market with both CPUs and GPUs on the new TSMC node? 7nm won't be cheaper per transistor for some time which means that an identical chip (a simple die shrink with no added transistors) will cost more even if the die is smaller, to that add yield rates being way worst than the proven 16nm node and you have a picture. GTXJackBauerThe limited stock is starting to make sense now. See above GTXJackBauerI hope they tell us this is coming in the Spring-Summer time frame as usual.
Now for pages filled with buyers remorse outcries incoming in 3....2....1.....
Edit: Ok scratch all that. I'm not waiting for an RTX 7nm in 2020 from this apparent roadmap unless all has since changed to what I previously read from this thread. That roadmap isn't official and is just pure speculation, it is also wrong on many points so I would not consider it, at all.
post edited by Stefem - 2018/11/12 12:38:35
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Stefem
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 07:20:17
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Bruno747
GTXJackBauer
I got this feeling like I have dejavu all over again. I feel like RTX 2080 Ti reminds me of the power hungry and hot running Fermi GTX 480s. Eventually they took it and make it more efficient, etc aka GTX 580s.
Anyone else feel the same?
Bit of a different scenario but yes. 480 was hot due to "leakage" on the process node. Once the node was mature and leakage was addressed gtx 580 full gf100 appeared.
The node Turing is on is already well mature. Turing is just massive and needs a die shrink to move forward.
I hypothesised that Nvidia would expand Turing on 7nm and release a new Titan and hpc card. The Titan being at least Titan v prices or higher. It's unlikely ampere will happen in 2019 cause Nvidia needs to recoup Turing costs even if a significant portion of Turing r&d was actually Volta r&d that they got back with the dgx platform.
The first design (or shrink) from NVIDIA will probably be a Tegra chip (Xavier) for autonomous vehicle, then maybe a new HPC GPU (like GP100 and GV100) which could be the Ampere to which rumor are referring. The shrink of Xavier was already on roadmap for first part of 2019 by almost 2 years.
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Xavier Zepherious
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 07:38:29
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Stefem
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 09:10:25
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Xavier Zepherious
well forget about AMD being innovative - they are not supporting DXR anytime soon
AMD’s David Wang: We Won’t Implement DirectX RayTracing (DXR) Until Its Offered In All Product Ranges
https://wccftech.com/amds...in-all-product-ranges/
You are brave, your firs sentence could get you death threat if posted somewhere else  Then I guess Intel will come there before AMD...
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fearpoint
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 09:40:00
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Some of you people....
Technology progresses. SHOCKING!!!
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/12 17:18:31
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Stefem, I think your google translator is broken as I never spoke about intel and you're nit picking my opinionated theory as true and taking some of what I said out of context to create a point. Anyhoo...
post edited by GTXJackBauer - 2018/11/12 17:22:50
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Stefem
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/13 04:30:17
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GTXJackBauer
Stefem, I think your google translator is broken as I never spoke about intel and you're nit picking my opinionated theory as true and taking some of what I said out of context to create a point. Anyhoo...
English is not my native language but for sure I don't need a translator, I cited Intel as an example and as bad as my English can be I think that was pretty clear. I didn't take anything out of context and actually no matter the context, big dies still are expensive, 7nm just entered volume production and is more expansive than 16/12nm and that roadmap is clearly wrong as it contain errors and wrong data. Given those facts your theory and opinions expressed in the post doesn't stand up, that's the only point I was trying to make. Wrong assumption will lead to wrong conclusion
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/13 17:25:18
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Stefem
GTXJackBauer
Stefem, I think your google translator is broken as I never spoke about intel and you're nit picking my opinionated theory as true and taking some of what I said out of context to create a point. Anyhoo...
English is not my native language but for sure I don't need a translator, I cited Intel as an example and as bad as my English can be I think that was pretty clear.
I didn't take anything out of context and actually no matter the context, big dies still are expensive, 7nm just entered volume production and is more expansive than 16/12nm and that roadmap is clearly wrong as it contain errors and wrong data. Given those facts your theory and opinions expressed in the post doesn't stand up, that's the only point I was trying to make.
Wrong assumption will lead to wrong conclusion
It's pretty clear it's bad when you can't comprehend what I said properly. I didn't set anything in stone and it was just my opinion and did state things are subject to change. You took it way over your head and had to play smarty pants. Some how you took my comments to heart or you're just looking to argue for the sake of making up a point. Carry on...
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Stefem
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/20 06:31:37
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GTXJackBauer
Stefem
GTXJackBauer
Stefem, I think your google translator is broken as I never spoke about intel and you're nit picking my opinionated theory as true and taking some of what I said out of context to create a point. Anyhoo...
English is not my native language but for sure I don't need a translator, I cited Intel as an example and as bad as my English can be I think that was pretty clear.
I didn't take anything out of context and actually no matter the context, big dies still are expensive, 7nm just entered volume production and is more expansive than 16/12nm and that roadmap is clearly wrong as it contain errors and wrong data. Given those facts your theory and opinions expressed in the post doesn't stand up, that's the only point I was trying to make.
Wrong assumption will lead to wrong conclusion
It's pretty clear it's bad when you can't comprehend what I said properly. I didn't set anything in stone and it was just my opinion and did state things are subject to change. You took it way over your head and had to play smarty pants. Some how you took my comments to heart or you're just looking to argue for the sake of making up a point. Carry on...
I perfectly understand that you were making speculation (I think you could have guessed reading my answer) but you were doing wrong and honestly I don't understand why you take it personally. Why you don't acknowledge your mistake and rework your theories and opinions based on the new and more accurate information I given to you instead of taking that as a personal affront?
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/20 08:08:49
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Go troll somewhere else bro. Go eat a pizza or something.
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seth89
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/21 17:24:55
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Can and will we see a ray tracing drop in card? Something like the first PPU?
Or maybe like early physx, where you could have SLI and dedicate 1 of the 2 cards to physx but with ray tracing this time around?
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Bruno747
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/21 19:03:32
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seth89
Can and will we see a ray tracing drop in card? Something like the first PPU?
Or maybe like early physx, where you could have SLI and dedicate 1 of the 2 cards to physx but with ray tracing this time around?
That would be neat one card with regular cores and another with the Ray tracing cores. Both chock full of cores.
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MasterMiner
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/22 08:29:05
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Photolithography at 7nm is not like previous generation advances. Companies are bumping up against the laws of physics here (see: quantum tunneling) which is a massively complex barrier. We are literally bumping up against a hard limit as to how closely you can trace transistors on a physical die based on subatomic behavior.
Yes it is available. Fabs are building chips based on this node. But as others have pointed out failure rates per batch are high. And they are not high simply because of bad design or lack of effort.
Get ready for *very* expensive chips.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/22 08:50:24
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MasterMiner
Photolithography at 7nm is not like previous generation advances. Companies are bumping up against the laws of physics here (see: quantum tunneling) which is a massively complex barrier. We are literally bumping up against a hard limit as to how closely you can trace transistors on a physical die based on subatomic behavior.
Yes it is available. Fabs are building chips based on this node. But as others have pointed out failure rates per batch are high. And they are not high simply because of bad design or lack of effort.
Get ready for *very* expensive chips.
Are you implying we should expect even worse delays on top of pricing the next go around?
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MasterMiner
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/22 15:47:33
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GTXJackBauer
MasterMiner
Photolithography at 7nm is not like previous generation advances. Companies are bumping up against the laws of physics here (see: quantum tunneling) which is a massively complex barrier. We are literally bumping up against a hard limit as to how closely you can trace transistors on a physical die based on subatomic behavior.
Yes it is available. Fabs are building chips based on this node. But as others have pointed out failure rates per batch are high. And they are not high simply because of bad design or lack of effort.
Get ready for *very* expensive chips.
Are you implying we should expect even worse delays on top of pricing the next go around?
Apple seems to have first dibs on TSMC 7nm chips. Others are waiting in line. It’ll be interesting how that plays out. Intel of course fabs it’s own chips, we’ll see how they do. But from what I’ve read Nvidia and the rest are in line behind Apple in the food chain on who gets 7nm capacity first.
I used to mine. Now I compute.
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lehpron
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Re: Nvidia is set to tap TSMC's 7nm node in 2019
2018/11/23 12:27:39
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Xavier Zepherious
ARM HAS mobile - and you really have to be on the front end of that to win there - and may win the desktop if they can produce the same performance using less power.
AMD is going to win more CPU market share until Intel get their Ass in shape - and Nvidia won't start entering any x86 market
even though we have VIA back in the game (they were the only other one with x86 rights - -think cyrix) I'm absolutely certain without any doubt in my mind that Intel hired Keller to make compact x86 cores to deal with ARM, Intel wants mobile. This same architecture can easily scale from dozens to hundreds of cores, if need be, for desktop to servers. AMD already got Intel's ass in gear. It's the only option left, both worlds have to be merged with a unified architecture . In this manner, both AMD and nVidia have experience with micro-cores (stream processors and CUDA) interconnecting thousands to treat the sum as a single unit. If anything, if would mean both AMD and nVidia are in the most unique position to adopt the strategy I believe Intel is doing right now. Hiring Raja Koduri might not just be for graphics knowing his work on thousands of parallel processors, Intel could want scalability. I don't know what AMD's post-Zen plans are, whatever they are doing now while ZenX gets limelight, but I hope they too are designing compact x86s. nVidia especially has the capability of taking over mobile, away from Qualcomm or Mediatek. They "could", rather. Once the 2020's rolls in, we'll be in the age of compact CPU/GPU cores.
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