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Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing)

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Dave_ES
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Sunday, May 14, 2017 4:15 PM (permalink)
Hello,
I'm starting a dedicated thread since the other threads I've requested information regarding this topic seem to be a bit too spread in their discussion, and this topic didn't seem to garner any responses.  I need to be a little aggressive on the topic since my client's project is time dependent, and I need to get something up and running as my current machine is suffering some power issues. I'm hoping for some response from EVGA.  Nothing I will hold them to, only their feeling based on their experience.  I know you (EVGA) can't guarantee anything that hasn't been thoroughly tested by your company.  I'm just looking for some professional judgement, whether it turns out to be right or wrong.
 
Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a dedicated or cheap server option.  I'm looking at the x99 EVGA board with a Xeon processor, because it does have some consumer features, but not so many as to be beyond my current/future needs.
 
I'm tempted to test some Unbuffered ECC memory, but the cost to do so is rather high.  I've located some Kingston unbuffered ECC memory that is a potential option, but I don't want to commit to 4 sticks for testing at that price if I don't need to.  My questions are:
1) Can I test with only 2 unbuffered 16GB ECC RAM sticks, or do four slots have to be populated.
2) If two sticks post, is it highly likely that increasing to 4 or 8 slots will work (64GB / max 128GB).
3) Where can I purchase unbuffered ECC RAM (some of the usual suspects like Amazon, NCIX, etc., seam quite low on stock and may not have additional sticks after I've tested the first two). How about Memory America.  Anyone have experience with them?
4) I've just learned that ECC memory and non-ECC memory can be mixed.  Apparently, ECC memory will act as non-ECC memory in these cases.  I am wondering if ECC memory that didn't work/post alone would become functional if mixed with non-ECC memory.  That would curb some of the lost cost if the 2 sticks of ECC memory didn't work.
 
I will use this computer for some entertainment purposes, but also as a work computer. The type of work I do may require 6 or more hours to process a single run.  Maybe much more.  So, crashes of my computer during these runs, especially when I'm working against a tight deadline, can be costly.  Having 128GB RAM seams to mean the chances of errors will increase with the increased ram.
 
I can discuss other builds or options in the other threads I've posted in.  I would like to keep this thread focused on the questions above. 
 
Thanks,
Dave
post edited by Dave_ES - Sunday, May 14, 2017 6:22 PM
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 5:18 PM (permalink)
    I have ran tasks for 30 days and never had an issue on my X99 using normal DDR4 set to Auto or better said not overclocked.
    That being said if your Motherboard is setup and setup in a stable manner you really have no need for ECC Memory and the extra cost that comes with it. For one you cannot set Mirrored Memory in the Bios until EVGA Adds it to the Bios. 
    Also any task you are running should have check points so if an error happens it can return and start back at the check point.
    You one need 2 Slots on the Classified MB but if you are going to end up wanting 128GB you will need to use all 8 Slots.
    To test ECC Memory you will need at lest 4 or 2 times the amount you want to test if ECC can recover a failed stick.
    Not sure how you are going to test your ECC memory if you cannot set it up in the Bios for redundancy and or as above Mirrored.
    http://www.memory4less.com for ECC Memory
     
    Crucial 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Server Memory Model CT4K16G4RFD4213 Newegg less than $750
    NOT Saying this Memory will work in your EVGA Motherboard.
     
    "The type of work I do" What is this Work?
    post edited by bcavnaugh - Sunday, May 14, 2017 5:28 PM

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    #2
    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 7:12 PM (permalink)
    Thank you Bill for your response and links.  I've added a fourth point in my list above since you posted your help, and also found Memory America which I added to my third point.  Memory America apparently has a 30 day return period.
     
    I'm not an IT person, so I'll admit some naivete when reading your response.  Specifically, does ECC require memory mirroring?  Everything I could find on the topic seemed to treat them as separate topics. If ECC does require memory mirroring, then I'm guessing you are suggesting my chances of the un-buffered ECC RAM working are slim. I thought, probably erroneously, ECC redundancy was mostly processor dependent for doing the error checking. If I understand what you say above, then I would hope EVGA would be able to state almost wholeheartedly that ECC will not work due to no redundancy/mirrored support in their BIOS. (By the way, are you from EVGA?).
     
    -Like you, I don't plan to touch overclocking. Stability is more important for me.
    -I'm not sure how the software manages checkpoints.  My experience in the past with similar software was that a memory error usually lead to the program shutting down/crashing. Visual Modflow doing contaminant transport modelling seemed to plague me with errors, which if my memory serves me well usually noted a memory address. That was on an older ASUS board. Currently I am using an ASUS P8Z77 premium board to run Feflow software which is a more powerful version of the Visual Modflow software, and hopefully more reliable. However, I've already seen it crash a couple times on my current computer, and have only run it half a dozen times since purchase.
     
    To answer your last question: I use the above noted software to do groundwater modelling which is quite computationally intensive both in the setup of the mesh, dual precision calculations, and finite element modelling.
     
    Thanks again for your comments so far. Hopefully my posts will get a little shorter as I start to understand the issues you have noted.
    Regards,
    Dave
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 7:50 PM (permalink)
    Professional Engineering software that I have used usually has extensive hardware recommendations for best results. - MB, CPU, RAM, GPU, drivers & OS
     
    Your crashes could be GPU driver issues, this seems to be OpenGL dependent software
     
    Sounds like your trying to build a workstation

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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 8:48 PM (permalink)
    Dave, to reach an EVGA tech rep, I would just call them since they're open 24/7.
     
    Also, if you are willing to wait this out, the new X chipset is a few months away.  I would personally wait for that.

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    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 9:58 PM (permalink)
    Cool and Jack. Thanks for the responses.
    Cool: I've been in contact with the software tech, and this software unfortunately doesn't leverage the GPU for computation, which is surprising considering the cost of the software (20k+), how suitable GPUs are for exactly this type of calculation, and how long it has been around. Some of the company's other software like Mike does use the gpu.

    The software I am using will however use other computers for parallel processing which is only useful in one scenario (sensitivity analysis, which is essentially testing the same scenario but with variation of the input variables to see which variable impacts the model most significantly), but still not the GPU. And sensitivity analysis is only a part of the work I need this software to do.

    Jack: I'm actually thinking a more mature board like the x99 would be more stable than the unproven x299. What are your thoughts on this?

    Regards
    post edited by Dave_ES - Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:16 PM
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    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:26 PM (permalink)
    I can't say too much but all I can say is this.  When new features come out, yes there are bugs to be fixed.  We had issues with M.2 being somewhat new at the time as there were fixes to be had.  Depending what he X299 offers, if there's nothing new but tweaks from X99, I think it will be fine.  
     
    The other thing I can say is, verifying that said Xenon will work with said board.  That can take time and possibly a BIOS update but we aren't even sure as of yet but history has shown, that Xeon's usually work with these type of boards.
     
    I personally would go with the newer chipset because I like to have the newest if I were to purchase something of the same price point, knowing its around the corner.  I would patiently wait for May 30 - June 4 for Computex as there's a lot of chatter from AMD and Intel based on GPUs, CPUs and the new X MBs from both.  If you can't wait that long, than X99 it is.

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    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:39 PM (permalink)
    Thanks Jack. I did the newest release on my last build. I think I'll stick with something a little more tested this time round. Appreciate the advice though.
    post edited by Dave_ES - Sunday, May 14, 2017 11:25 PM
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Monday, May 15, 2017 3:03 AM (permalink)
    "(By the way, are you from EVGA?)" No I am not.
    This is not really an EVGA Support Forum but an Open Public Forum.
    But EVGA Techs do post and answer members questions here on the Forum.
    Best ask here:
    post edited by bcavnaugh - Monday, May 15, 2017 3:05 AM

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    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Monday, May 15, 2017 12:52 AM (permalink)
    Hi Bill, I will contact them again.
     
    My first call didn't really lead anywhere since the EVGA tech was not able to give me any official guarantees on ECC memory. . I was hoping for more of an unofficial response here where I give them the possibility of being wrong, and not make them liable if it did not work.  Just a professional opinion rather than a guarantee.  I was also hoping some users who have tested Xeon processors may have also tested some ECC. However, if Memory America's return policy is legitimate, it might just be worth trying myself.
     
    Just to follow up on one of your points: Does ECC memory require redundancy/memory mirroring to be enabled on the mother board?  Maybe someone else could also answer this.  My google skills have come up lacking in finding an answer.
     
    Thanks,
    Dave
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    Cool GTX
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Monday, May 15, 2017 3:03 PM (permalink)
    My thoughts:
     
    1) EVGA would probably only tell you if they have tested any ECC RAM and not theorize if it is possibly possible.
     
    2) Look in this part of the Forums - https://forums.evga.com/CrunchingEVGA-f79.aspx
         Many of these members have CPU intensive experience.
     
    3) Would a dual CPU MB be better and it would have native ECC support ?
     
    4) Contact RAM Mfg and ask them if they have tested ECC RAM in the MB you are considering
     

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    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:22 AM (permalink)
    Thanks Cool. I'll take those points into consideration. For your number 3 point, dual Slot WS type board lack some of the consumer features I would like (optical out, extra usbs, etc...). There is also a point of no return on the number of processor cores FeFlow will use, at which point performance apparently decreases rather than increases.
    post edited by Dave_ES - Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:28 AM
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    Dave_ES
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    Re: Unbuffered ECC RAM compatibility (info and testing) Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:28 AM (permalink)
    To those who PMed me advice: thank you. Sorry, I can't respond directly to your pm's yet, I haven't been a member long enough.
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