kevinc313
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:18 PM
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yaggaz
Dabadger84
I saw some seriously-insane increases in the FPS in about half the games I play, with my 1080 Ti FTW3 Hybrid, when I went from a 3930K to a 9900K about 20 months ago. I don't think you'd see quite the increases I did, but you will definitely see a sizeable increase if you upgrade your platform to a newer CPU.
I'd wait for Ryzen 5000 if I were you, of course, because A: if you wait & buy it, it's going to be amazing, or B: If you don't wanna buy it, it should drive down the prices of previous gen Ryzen, as well as current Intel CPUs, getting you better performance at a better price eith erway.
Just switching to a newer platform netted me between 30-80% more FPS depending on how CPU dependent the game was, but then again, that was going from DDR3 to DDR4 RAM as well.
Also anyone telling you "fast RAM matters" on modern Intel is a bit full of it, the diminishing returns are real once you get over 3200MHz (anything less than 3200 can make you fall off a cliff performance wise depending on the game though). It's more important to find out if your motherboard, once you upgrade, is t-topology, or Daisy Chain, for the RAM circuitry layout, as that can have a pretty notable impact on overclockability, both of the CPU & RAM, if you are using the wrong RAM configuration with the wrong RAM circuitry layout. Most Asus & Gigabyte boards are T-topology & should be used with 4 DIMMs of RAM, that I know for sure, can't comment on others.
Sweet information. So looking at my rig, if I went and bought two more of the same RAM modules I'd see a performance boost?
Edit: Also going from i7700k / Z270 to 10700k / z490 gave me about %20 increase in Jedi Fallen Order. In the end I was a little disappointed, as I figured I'd get a lore more in a 3 Generation skip
You should return your ram ASAP and get two sets of the Patriot 4400mhz b-die 2x8 while it's on sale. https://www.reddit.com/r/...ddr4_4400_mhz_bdie_99/ Or if you don't want to clock manually, something that's fast but reasonably priced and on your QVL: https://download.gigabyte..._z490-ud-ac_200916.pdf (this QVL reads like one for a daisy chain though, where 2x ram is preffered....)
post edited by kevinc313 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:25 PM
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kevinc313
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:37 PM
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njbongo
That link is all about AMD, from what I saw on the charts, DDR4 3600 is the best for the current gen of Ryzen, because there is an some controllers in the CPU that will adjust to 1800 MHz (1/2 of dual channel 3600) so everything runs ta the same speed. It looks like the most performance he pushed out of a Ryzen system is with DDR4200, and that was a big gain over 3200 ON RYZEN 3950x I believe. He has to do some more tweaking beyond turning on XMP though, at 4200 speed.
The new Ryzens coming out will most likely be different. They have improved memory timings and controls with each generation, but you will need to see reviews when it comes out.
However, I don't think you will get the same gains on Intel. I have an i9-9900k, with DDR4 36000, GSkill Trident Z - 32 MB. I have tested myself, turning XMP off and the memory running at 2933 (stock Intel max speed) and then with XMP on, at 3600 and in gaming the difference is MARGINAL at best. This is similar to many test by reviewers online. Same for 3DMark benchmarks. The machine overall feels a little zippier for general use. It's really up to you, and depending on what you want to spend money on, but if you go with a 10th gen Intel, I would try the 3200 you have first and see if you are happy with it. The cost for the higher speed memory is crazy from what I have seen, and for me, not worth it.
This is a terrible assessment of memory speed. Everyone seriously OC'ing and benchmarking has 3800Mhz-ish on Ryzen with TIGHT timings, or FAST and TIGHT on Intel. https://youtu.be/j3z7Ggh2_xI https://youtu.be/Jx3b8GbbeJc?t=892 Yes, it does make a difference in games, especially in single core on Intel. Generic 3200mhz is absolutely ridiculous to pair with a 10700K. 4000mhz or over, period, either out of the box or overclocked. https://youtu.be/kN5fbLsuJVM By the way, if you turn off XMP with any modern DDR4 ram, it should run at the JDEC 2133 spec, not 2933 which is the Intel nominal spec for the better 10th gen chips.
post edited by kevinc313 - Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:59 AM
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I_R0M_I
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:04 PM
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The debate will go on forever, especially when chips are released at different times. The 10900 is newer than the 3900.
The 5900 may beat the 10900, but the 11900 (or whatever) will beat that, the 6900 might beat that, and so on, and so on.
When they release 6+ months apart, you are always going to be chasing the best.
From the videos Ive watched, the 3900 doesnt do too bad. Some games sure it gets spanked, but some it levels or even pips slightly.
Ive seen tests that show a 3700 vs 6700 is about 35% fps more @1080, and 10% more @4k. So im definately going to see big improvements with a 5900. Could it be worse than a 11900, maybe even a 10900? Sure. But ive not had an amd for over 15 years! So happy to give it a try. Intel have been complacent, 11th gen is still on 14nm. Amd deserve a shot.
For me, its coming down to this.
I either buy an older 10900k now, and a new gen is out in less than 5 months. The 10900k is the same price as the 5900x currently. We know the 11900 is going to be even more.
I buy a 5900x (think a 5950x is OTT) in a few weeks.
I wait for gen 11, end of Q2 21, and have a 3080 thats being strangled.
Absolute worse case, i can sell and rebuild into a 12th gen Intel if they finally do something new and exciting.
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kevinc313
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:57 PM
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I_R0M_I
The debate will go on forever, especially when chips are released at different times. The 10900 is newer than the 3900.
The 5900 may beat the 10900, but the 11900 (or whatever) will beat that, the 6900 might beat that, and so on, and so on.
When they release 6+ months apart, you are always going to be chasing the best.
From the videos Ive watched, the 3900 doesnt do too bad. Some games sure it gets spanked, but some it levels or even pips slightly.
Ive seen tests that show a 3700 vs 6700 is about 35% fps more @1080, and 10% more @4k. So im definately going to see big improvements with a 5900. Could it be worse than a 11900, maybe even a 10900? Sure. But ive not had an amd for over 15 years! So happy to give it a try. Intel have been complacent, 11th gen is still on 14nm. Amd deserve a shot.
For me, its coming down to this.
I either buy an older 10900k now, and a new gen is out in less than 5 months. The 10900k is the same price as the 5900x currently. We know the 11900 is going to be even more.
I buy a 5900x (think a 5950x is OTT) in a few weeks.
I wait for gen 11, end of Q2 21, and have a 3080 thats being strangled.
Absolute worse case, i can sell and rebuild into a 12th gen Intel if they finally do something new and exciting.
There is no debate. There are AMD Fanboy Clowns on Reddit who think they can make any sort of valid justification for AMD in gaming. People who know what they are doing are on Intel. The 5900 will NOT beat a properly setup 10600K or 10700K or 10900K, nor be even remotely close. Neither will a 7900XYZ in 2021 or whatever trash AMD releases next year. YOU won't be able to get a 5900 in a few weeks, because of the bots, scalpers and fanboys. YOU won't get much higher clocks in the games you play with a 5900. 10-20% improvement, tops. I'm going to say it one more time. INTEL 10TH GEN FAST (LIKE REALLY FAST) RAM GOOD COOLER (PUSH PULL INTAKE AIO) OVERCLOCK IT. If you're really concerned about Intel 11th gen, you can get a 10600K and PCIe 4.0 MB now then swap to a top end chip of 11th gen. https://youtu.be/kN5fbLsuJVM?t=339 <----- AMD getting wrecked.
post edited by kevinc313 - Wednesday, October 14, 2020 8:29 PM
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Satsugai7
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Thursday, October 15, 2020 5:46 AM
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As someone with a FTW3 Ultra and a i7-6700K I can comment that I'm not experiencing any CPU bottlenecking in any of the games I play at 3440x1440. You may be running into trouble just from the games you are choosing. Escape from Tarkov is very CPU dependent, along with ram speed. If you can overclock your CPU to 4.7Ghz (1.3v vcore should do the trick with Load Line Optimization at High+) and set the XMP profile on your ram, you might see some gains. https://old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/itxea5/escape_from_tarkov_3080_benchmarks/ BF5 looks to be capped in RSS or in the nv control panel. You should be seeing 160+ FPS at Ultra settings (1080TI would be getting like 85 FPS at Ultra, for reference)
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I_R0M_I
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:10 AM
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Would you playing in ultrawide help a bit also? More load on the GPU over straight 1440?
Ive read the higher the res, the less cpu does.
My 6700k is not a good one, its already at 1.35v I think for 4.5! I got scared at 1.4v and left it there.
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I_R0M_I
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:28 AM
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kevinc313
There is no debate.
There are AMD Fanboy Clowns on Reddit who think they can make any sort of valid justification for AMD in gaming.
People who know what they are doing are on Intel.
The 5900 will NOT beat a properly setup 10600K or 10700K or 10900K, nor be even remotely close. Neither will a 7900XYZ in 2021 or whatever trash AMD releases next year.
YOU won't be able to get a 5900 in a few weeks, because of the bots, scalpers and fanboys.
YOU won't get much higher clocks in the games you play with a 5900. 10-20% improvement, tops.
I'm going to say it one more time.
INTEL 10TH GEN
FAST (LIKE REALLY FAST) RAM
GOOD COOLER (PUSH PULL INTAKE AIO)
OVERCLOCK IT.
If you're really concerned about Intel 11th gen, you can get a 10600K and PCIe 4.0 MB now then swap to a top end chip of 11th gen.
https://youtu.be/kN5fbLsuJVM?t=339 <----- AMD getting wrecked.
You sound like you know your stuff, early posts with ram info etc. But you come across as an Intel fanboy here. You are showing me a MAX OC video, not everyone will max oc, not every chip is the same. My 6700k is pretty bad on the silicon lottery. He also give nothing but a notepad table. I could claim i done the same tests, write any fps i want too. This video STOCK shows the 3950x at most a few fps behind the 10900k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLuNmB7aXNk This one shows the 3900 and 3950 very similar to the one above, at STOCK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ohs-__-F4 The 10900k came out after both of the Ryzen chips. It stands to reason it beats them. Intel already had a benchmark / chip to aim at and beat. It will be the same with 11th gen, they will already have the 5900/5950 to test against, and beat before they even release. I dont game in 1080p. So getting a million frames in cs:go or LOL is irrelevant. Im not saying AMD are better, or that the 5900 is going to destroy the 10900. But claiming even the Zen 4 which we know very little about, couldnt even beat the 10900k is just silly. I got, in my hands, a 3080 Ultra 21 days after release. Ordered on release. Now unless AMD do the same as Nvidia, and have virtually NO stock in any retailers for weeks. There will be stock. For a start, the 3080 was much more in demand than a Ryzen 9 will be. Everyone who knows what they are doing uses Intel remember. a 3080 will fit in almost any system, a Ryzen 9 is much more limited in its market appeal and share.
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vegajf51
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Re: 3080 FTW Ultra - Poor improvement over 1080ti FTW
Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:38 AM
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I_R0M_I
kevinc313
There is no debate.
There are AMD Fanboy Clowns on Reddit who think they can make any sort of valid justification for AMD in gaming.
People who know what they are doing are on Intel.
The 5900 will NOT beat a properly setup 10600K or 10700K or 10900K, nor be even remotely close. Neither will a 7900XYZ in 2021 or whatever trash AMD releases next year.
YOU won't be able to get a 5900 in a few weeks, because of the bots, scalpers and fanboys.
YOU won't get much higher clocks in the games you play with a 5900. 10-20% improvement, tops.
I'm going to say it one more time.
INTEL 10TH GEN
FAST (LIKE REALLY FAST) RAM
GOOD COOLER (PUSH PULL INTAKE AIO)
OVERCLOCK IT.
If you're really concerned about Intel 11th gen, you can get a 10600K and PCIe 4.0 MB now then swap to a top end chip of 11th gen.
https://youtu.be/kN5fbLsuJVM?t=339 <----- AMD getting wrecked.
You sound like you know your stuff, early posts with ram info etc.
But you come across as an Intel fanboy here.
You are showing me a MAX OC video, not everyone will max oc, not every chip is the same. My 6700k is pretty bad on the silicon lottery. He also give nothing but a notepad table.
I could claim i done the same tests, write any fps i want too.
This video STOCK shows the 3950x at most a few fps behind the 10900k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLuNmB7aXNk
This one shows the 3900 and 3950 very similar to the one above, at STOCK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ohs-__-F4
The 10900k came out after both of the Ryzen chips. It stands to reason it beats them. Intel already had a benchmark / chip to aim at and beat. It will be the same with 11th gen, they will already have the 5900/5950 to test against, and beat before they even release.
I dont game in 1080p. So getting a million frames in cs:go or LOL is irrelevant.
Im not saying AMD are better, or that the 5900 is going to destroy the 10900. But claiming even the Zen 4 which we know very little about, couldnt even beat the 10900k is just silly.
I got, in my hands, a 3080 Ultra 21 days after release. Ordered on release.
Now unless AMD do the same as Nvidia, and have virtually NO stock in any retailers for weeks. There will be stock. For a start, the 3080 was much more in demand than a Ryzen 9 will be. Everyone who knows what they are doing uses Intel remember. a 3080 will fit in almost any system, a Ryzen 9 is much more limited in its market appeal and share.
He is definitely an Intel fanboy, don't worry though we have some serious AMD fanboys around here also to keep the balance... lol Anyways your conclusion is spot on. You have done your homework.
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