Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 22:02:29
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seronx
sengutso
Ya.....
Stop it
What I mean is
Phenom II =/= FX(Zambezi)
FX(Zambezi) is much more superior to that of the Phenom II
It will have HKMG, 32nm and a new architecture for a change
Where Phenom II is a ultra tweaked K7 architecture on the 45nm Fab Process (without HKMG)
It will have SSE4.1 SSE4.2 SSE5(via FMA4, XOP, CVT16) and AVX
Where Phenom II didn't have any of the above
It will have a unified integer scheduler
Where Phenom II has three dedicated integer schedulers
It will have a unified floating point schedular
Where Phenom II has three dedicated floating point schedulars
And many more things that make FX(Zambezi) superior to Phenom II
Making FX(Zambezi) the fastest CPU that isn't out yet for AMD
Dare we talk about FX Generation 2(Komodo)?
everybody knows bulldozer is faster than phenom 2 my point there is u said the more cores are better than more threads right? then looking at those reviews the more core phenom looses on the less core i7's hmmm. i don't why lmao! anyway looks good on paper but where is the official benches? and not some fake benches on some websites that dont prove nuthin. and talking about next gen fx? for all i know a next gen i7 sandy bridge e will destroy it! just like the first gen sandy bridge E will destroy the first gen fx. ;)
post edited by sengutso - 2011/07/15 22:04:08
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 22:16:16
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sengutso
everybody knows bulldozer is faster than phenom 2 my point there is u said the more cores are better than more threads right? Yes, I did and it is true sengutso
then looking at those reviews the more core phenom looses on the less core i7's hmmm. i don't why lmao! anyway looks good on paper but where is the official benches? Hmmm, 32nm/45nm HKMG does that, Unified Schedulers do that, SSE4.1/4.2 does that but Phenom II being that close shows how high performing AMD CPUs are For AMD to drop reviving the good old beaten dead horse and getting a new horse is amazing On paper is the basically the only thing we got and it isn't that bad either sengutso
and not some fake benches on some websites that dont prove nuthin. and talking about next gen fx? The NDA for Zambezi ends after September 1st(Early September), So you will get your benchmark after that sengutso
for all i know a next gen i7 sandy bridge e will destroy it just like it the first gen sandy bridge E will destroy the first gen fx. ;)
FX Generation 2 is on a different socket that puts the PCI-e connections from the Motherboard Northbridge into the CPUs Northbridge FX Generation 2 also cures alot of "worst case" scenarios on the FX cpus(99.98% of the time these worst case scenarios won't affect you) i7 Sandy Bridge on LGA2011 competes with FX Zambezi on AM3+ i7 Ivy Bridge on LGA 2011 competes with FX Komodo on FMx
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/15 22:17:49
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 22:24:46
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seronx
sengutso
then looking at those reviews the more core phenom looses on the less core i7's hmmm. i don't why lmao! anyway looks good on paper but where is the official benches?
Hmmm, 32nm/45nm HKMG does that, Unified Schedulers do that, SSE4.1/4.2 does that
but Phenom II being that close shows how high performing AMD CPUs are
For AMD to drop reviving the good old beaten dead horse and getting a new horse is amazing
lmao! how is a 6 core loosing to a 4 core a high performing cpu? even a damn ass would know a 6 core loosing to a 4 core isn't a high performing cpu unless hes really dumb lmao!
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 23:03:28
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sengutso
lmao! how is a 6 core loosing to a 4 core a high performing cpu? even a damn ass would know a 6 core loosing to a 4 core isn't a high performing cpu unless hes really dumb lmao!
I am talking about the X4, and if you do look at some Phenom II X6 benchmarks the only thing that beats it is Sandy Bridge and Westmere For something remade from a 1999 architecture to handle 2004-2005 tasks to last to 2011 is a pretty big feat Phenom II X4 and X6 are high performance CPUs and there time of existence is over as FX is coming 1999(K7h) to 2011(K10h(R2)) you will be missed   K7 isn't on this but it looks like K8 Here comes K15h
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lehpron
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 23:10:54
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sengutso
cores always beat out threads? All things equal (like comparing a Sandy Bridge Pentium to a Core i3 2x00), yes; if the program was coded for it. Even i7 2600 is marginally better than i7 2500 in many games. sengutsothen explain why quadcore i7 920 beat the crap out of x6 hexacore phenom 2? None of the Phenom II x6's cost over $200 retail. Show me a review where the i7 920/930/950 outperforms by 50% at stock speeds to account for the price difference, otherwise you're just ignorant. sengutso and if amd 8 core is superior architecture? why has it not surpass the 6 core i7 980x? Very few consumers look at a $1000 and a $300 CPU options realistically or practically. The Zambezi options will range from lower $200 up to the lower $300, are any i7 LGA1366 processors in that range now in major retailers? No, so why have that unrealistic expectation? sengutso
which is still relies on i7 design and its about 4 years old. 2.5 years. The average user do not care how old something is or the specifics enthusiasts care for. DIY is a hassle for these folks, they are generally not early-adopters of new technology and though many are seasonal buyers, but most don't wait for a successor longer than the week or so to just buy the damn thing. If someone is in the market for a new machine right when Zambezi finally appears, I highly doubt they will buy a superior years old tech if it costs more. The reason why I'm not seeing this from an enthusiast point of view is that we are a niche that is just negligible enough that Intel has been able to afford not replacing out X58 boards because they have us by the balls, we aren't going anywhere and they can charge whatever they want. For everyone else, AMD brings hope.
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Mystikalrush
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/15 23:28:17
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Lol lol lol I'm totally bias lol lol lol said, sengutso.
Wait for release, end thread.
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Mikel-MNJ
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 11:08:25
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Personally. I've used Intel all my life. Except in one build where I used an Athlon. But now I'm heading back to AMD. Sengutso, if you have no qualms paying a 100% - 300% price premium for that 10-15% performance gain (if that high) then that is your right. No one has attacked you on your decision. No need to bring all this "lmao... stupid... dumb" none sense in. I'm not going to claim to know anything about CPU Architecture etc. But I don't think you compare core for core between Intel and AMD because their architecture is different *as Seronx said. Maybe AMD's core's to Intels threads? 6 cores to 8 threads (4 core i7). That would explain why it does not best it. BUT! It shows that AMD is more efficient and when you factor in price, well--winning. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I was just taking a stab at it. By the way, totally new to the CPU world--can someone give me some info on the FMx sockets I'm hearing about? I was going to get a new AM3+ board but now I hear it won't be around next year and is being replaced with FMx?
post edited by Mikel-MNJ - 2011/07/16 11:49:50
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Hog54
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 11:28:08
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I could never think of a reason to go intel in the 12 years I have been using AMD.Unless ofcourse you want to spend $5000 and be benchmark king at Futuremark.It doesnt matter if you buy a $1000 intel cpu and run it at 4 ghz or a $300 AMD cpu and run it at 4 ghz,the games still play the same. 
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 12:19:21
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Mikel-MNJ
By the way, totally new to the CPU world--can someone give me some info on the FMx sockets I'm hearing about? I was going to get a new AM3+ board but now I hear it won't be around next year and is being replaced with FMx?
It is getting replaced by the "FMx" socket The reason why is that the AMx sockets require a dedicated/discrete northbridge "FMx" has the northbridge in the CPU(actually it doesn't have a northbridge at all it just has the PCI-e links to the slots) The affects of this change are very minimal(the Northbridge+Zambezi has a point-to-point 6.4GT/s connection)
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Johhny Doe 
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 12:23:15
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Hog54I could never think of a reason to go intel in the 12 years I have been using AMD.Unless ofcourse you want to spend $5000 and be benchmark king at Futuremark.It doesnt matter if you buy a $1000 intel cpu and run it at 4 ghz or a $300 AMD cpu and run it at 4 ghz,the games still play the same. Υou know that a Sandy CPU costs not that much more and trumps anything Phenom 2? There's no point in getting AMD unless you're on budget. Maybe the fanboys should grow up and realize that it's the product, not the brand that matters. No wonder why this guy only posts in the news section. http://www.techpowerup.co...howthread.php?t=148614http://www.techpowerup.co...36212&postcount=25
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lehpron
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 12:26:23
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I'll admit some ignorance on the part of AMD prices, not until yesterday did I notice how low prices have gotten. 1090T debuted at $295 2 years ago, while newegg has it for $189 now. Intel has choosen to EOL parts as opposed to letting them dip, otherwise the Microcenter price would be everywhere, but not everyone lives near one. I'm certainly not willing to spend my gasoline just to drive 100 miles for saving $84 on a computer part. Finding reviews that pit i7 900's and Phenom x6's are actually difficult to find, or at least I've found mainly other user threads where people argue their subjective ideas of what "better" means to each one. No one denies i7 900's are faster and x6's are cheaper, but better isn't just faster or cheaper. For instance, I'm actually trying to find evidence that proves what I regard as ''sengusto's hyperconfidence'' in Intel, so it has to be based on some logic. Unfortunately, I'm finding evidence that rather he's part of the group that is willing to pay whatever it takes for fastest and refuses to acknowledge any other quotient that others may use. Here are a few reviews that clearly show the Intel parts are faster: The problem I have with all these reviews is that performance percentage doesn't justify the price difference. i7 900 quads are up to approximately 20% faster while i7 6-core is up to approximately 50% faster; in many cases they have the same performance. But unless they were priced at $250 for i7 quad and $300 for i7 6-core, the Intel parts are just terrible deals. This is hindsight mind you and not considering the new SB's. If they were factored, as low as a Core i3 2100 is way worth the price, but i7 2600/2600K is not due to being priced too high compared to the Phenom x6's performance ratio. Even if we scale these figure estimates for SB/SBE/Z, it is highly unlikely that the $560-ish 6-core SBE is 40% faster than the 8-core FX8150 to justify the price. I think the real fight will be between the fastest AMD Zambezi + i7 2600/2600K + SBE quad, that lower $300 range is everything. I wonder if the SBE quad at 3.6GHz and 10MB L3 cache will seem that much faster than the i7 2600 at 3.4GHz with 8MB L3 cache, they'll end up in the same price range, the i7 2600 may have to dip in price. But if it dips below $250, there won't be much reason to get either Zambezi or SBE.
post edited by lehpron - 2011/07/16 12:32:56
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 12:40:50
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lehpron
Even if we scale these figure estimates for SB/SBE/Z, it is highly unlikely that the $560-ish 6-core SBE is 40% faster than the 8-core FX8150 to justify the price. I think the real fight will be between the fastest AMD Zambezi + i7 2600/2600K + SBE quad, that lower $300 range is everything. I wonder if the SBE quad at 3.6GHz and 10MB L3 cache will seem that much faster than the i7 2600 at 3.4GHz with 8MB L3 cache, they'll end up in the same price range, the i7 2600 may have to dip in price. But if it dips below $250, there won't be much reason to get either Zambezi or SBE.
The Roadmap for CPUs that donanimhaber keeps launching is fake We don't know the price of the Zambezi processors because those are announced after the product is launched (Nor, the names) There is one big reason to get Zambezi 8C $300~ over the Sandy Bridge 8T $250~ 8 x SSE5/4.2/4.1/S3/3/2 vs 4 x SSE4.2/4.1/S3/3/2 So, if you are an encoding junky/recording junky/casting games junky/capturing games junky Zambezi can out power most products on the Sandy Bridge side till 16T
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Mikel-MNJ
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 14:09:16
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lehpron
For instance, I'm actually trying to find evidence that proves what I regard as ''sengusto's hyperconfidence'' in Intel, so it has to be based on some logic. Unfortunately, I'm finding evidence that rather he's part of the group that is willing to pay whatever it takes for fastest and refuses to acknowledge any other quotient that others may use.
If I dropped $1,000.00 on a processor and my investment is now being threatened by something much cheaper with similar performance (as is the case with most technology) I guess I would try to give confidence back to my decision by putting down the competition so I don't feel buyers remorse. At least that's what I would tend to think if I were someone else looking on and every post I made on a forum was negative and dismissive. :O I'm agreeing with you lehpron. seronx, you think I should hold off on the AM3+ and wait for FMx? I see some FM1 boards on newegg right now but I don't know enough about them to know if they are decent.
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lehpron
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 14:18:36
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seronx
The Roadmap for CPUs that donanimhaber keeps launching is fake I differenciate between a fake rumor and speculation taken for truth because the reader (or journalist from another rumormill) was excited. Case in point: Those that bought into "Core i9" assumed it was obvious because a brandname has more weight than a codename. Rumors aren't reliable to begin with, that's their nature; it is ultimately our perogative to trust them. That's why I venture into other sources like marketing trends or company product pages, we can't depend on rumors to give us the whole story. A simple search on Intel's own product catalog would have revealed that they haven't change brands with shrinks since Pentium III, so "Core i9" would not have been possible with Gulftown. But you're right, we don't know the price of the fastest SKU or its actual performance, but I'm talking about the pricing space between Thuban and the SB/SBE quads as a sweet spot-- with caveats we can't even speculate. If the SBE quad retakes i7 950's price, that displaces i7 2600 outright and make it worthless without a price drop. Because they are both 32nm quads from the same arch, apart from the L3 cache and more PCie lanes, they may only perform differently by their frequency (a difference of 5%). My bias is most folks I know in the real world are not enthusiasts, so I don't have a clue how many folks actively seek for the features specifics like SSE5 that you noted, which are unique to AMD for now. Has Intel embedded them into Ivy Bridge or is it planned for Haswell?
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 14:26:17
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lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want cheap products wit lower performance go for amd hehehe
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Mikel-MNJ
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 14:52:26
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sengutso
lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want cheap products wit lower performance go for amd hehehe
There's that pessimism again... "lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want [best bang for your buck without sacrificing quality] go for amd hehehe" -- fixed.
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 15:19:15
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Mikel-MNJ
sengutso
lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want cheap products wit lower performance go for amd hehehe
There's that pessimism again...
"lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want [best bang for your buck without sacrificing quality] go for amd hehehe" -- fixed.
lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want [best bang for your buck without sacrificing quality] wit lower performance go for amd hehehe" -- fixed.
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 15:31:50
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lehpron
My bias is most folks I know in the real world are not enthusiasts, so I don't have a clue how many folks actively seek for the features specifics like SSE5 that you noted, which are unique to AMD for now. Has Intel embedded them into Ivy Bridge or is it planned for Haswell?
The Zambezi processor is Enthusiast the only programs that will be made for it are the programs that need it Benchmarks -> Rendering -> Capturing -> Encoding applications will use SSE5 to speed up the process and SSE5 also has half-point AVX thingies so expect 128bit AVX on AMD After Zambezi, the world will get Trinity and Komodo which by then most applications that will use SSE5 and AVX will be best on the AMD Architectures Intel will need to remake the architecture again to support (FMA4/XOP/CVT16)<-->(SSE5)
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/16 15:32:52
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Johhny Doe
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 15:45:17
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Mikel-MNJ"lets make it simple if u wanna shoot for the highest score and performance intel definitely if u want [best bang for your buck without sacrificing quality] go for amd hehehe" -- fixed. Right now, Intel has the best balance. Their platform is more future proof to begin with (Sandy E). Υou aren't just buying Intel for best of the best performance, you are buying it because of the overall performance. AMD's clock per clock and single threaded performance is inferior, making it a worse choice for games. http://www.hardwarecanuck...hp?pid=62,72&tid=5 Typically, AMD puts more cores for HPC environments to make up for it. Υet, somehow, the OP has various posts implying that AMD is superior. 
post edited by Johhny Doe - 2011/07/16 16:06:53
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Mikel-MNJ
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 16:02:13
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You just made a quote of a quote of a quote. So your message was really meant for sengutso. I was just adding some optimism to the statement :)
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 16:14:25
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    Zambezi has a higher single-thread IPC than Phenom II and Has a higher parallelism efficiency than Phenom II Both Single-thread performance and Multi-thread performance goes up with Zambezi and with the added support of SSSE3/SSE4.1/SSE4.2/SSE5/AVX expect it to drop your jaw
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/16 16:17:07
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Johhny Doe
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 16:24:02
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seronxZambezi has a higher single-thread IPC than Phenom II
and
Has a higher parallelism efficiency than Phenom II
Both Single-thread performance and Multi-thread performance goes up with Zambezi
and with the added support of SSSE3/SSE4.1/SSE4.2/SSE5/AVX expect it to drop your jaw Huh huh, haven't уou trolled enough alreadу? None of those instructions will get better gaming performance than Intel. How about you cut the fanboy BS and stop linking to heavily multi-threaded rendering benches where AMD's shine?
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 16:43:09
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Johhny Doe
Huh huh, haven't уou trolled enough alreadу? None of those instructions will get better gaming performance than Intel. How about you cut the fanboy BS and stop linking to heavily multi-threaded rendering benches where AMD's shine?
Those instructions will help out in those benchmarks AMD is shining? 980X 5000x6 = 30K 980X scored = 27K Really good parallelism factor 1100T 4100x6 = 24.6K 1100T scored = 19K 30,000 - 27,867 = 2133 Difference 24600 - 19,164 = 5436 Difference The obvious winner in using all the multithreaded resources available to them is the 980X 980X was alot more efficent when all of its threads were used Than when all of Phenom IIs were used But lets compare equal architectures types CMP vs CMP i5 2500K 5844 x 4 = 23376 20K AMD Phenom II 975BE 4154 x 4 = 16616 15K Then yes you are right, in CMP AMD wins
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/16 16:47:43
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Johhny Doe
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 16:58:37
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Who cares about the type or the age of the architecture? Only fanboys like yourself to praise inferior products. They're shining in price / performance in those benches. Not in raw performance. You're comparing a $1000 CPU to a $200 one. But when it comes to gaming benches, they're worse on P/P when compared to the Ibex Peak chips. Hell, Thubans even are worse than Υorkfield's in clock per clock gaming performance. Having fun are we?
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kaninja
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:00:16
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 I think it's funny. We see the same thread over and over again....like BEFORE Intel releases something new, AMD, NVIDIA, etc., etc. So many assumptions, conjecture, bias, and so on. All will be revealed in due time. Then we can see how far or close we were from the mark. I'm looking forward to the release of Bulldozer's first wave of CPU's.
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:01:51
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Johhny Doe
Who cares about the type or the age of the architecture? Only fanboys like yourself to praise inferior products. They're shining in price / performance in those benches. Not in raw performance. You're comparing a $1000 CPU to a $200 one. But when it comes to gaming benches, they're worse on P/P when compared to the Ibex Peak chips. Hell, Thubans even are worse than Υorkfield's in clock per clock gaming performance. Having fun are we?
I'm not a fanboy like you say that I am I have 2 Pentium 4 computers (1 with Hyperthreading, 1 without Hyperthreading) I have 1 Athlon on the Intel BTX motherboard type(Best computer ever, till it blew up) I have 2 labtops with Intel CPUs (1 Celeron, 1 Core 2) Fanboy pift, I am more of an Intel fanboy I have more INTEL products in my house than AMD products shows how wrong you are kaninjaI think it's funny. We see the same thread over and over again....like BEFORE Intel releases something new, AMD, NVIDIA, etc., etc.
So many assumptions, conjecture, bias, and so on. All will be revealed in due time. Then we can see how far or close we were from the mark. I'm looking forward to the release of Bulldozer's first wave of CPU's. You mean Zambezi CPUs as the other CPUs are on Servers
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/16 17:09:23
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Johhny Doe
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:19:26
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seronxI'm not a fanboy like you say that I am
I have 2 Pentium 4 computers (1 with Hyperthreading, 1 without Hyperthreading)
I have 1 Athlon on the Intel BTX motherboard type(Best computer ever, till it blew up)
I have 2 labtops with Intel CPUs (1 Celeron, 1 Core 2)
Fanboy pift, I am more of an Intel fanboy
I have more INTEL products in my house than AMD products
shows how wrong you are And I have more ATi cards than nVidia. Does that mean I used them for longer periods or I'm still using them? 
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kaninja
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:26:57
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seronx
kaninjaI think it's funny. We see the same thread over and over again....like BEFORE Intel releases something new, AMD, NVIDIA, etc., etc.
So many assumptions, conjecture, bias, and so on. All will be revealed in due time. Then we can see how far or close we were from the mark. I'm looking forward to the release of Bulldozer's first wave of CPU's.
You mean Zambezi CPUs as the other CPUs are on Servers
NO, I meant Bulldozer....thanks.
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seronx
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:37:41
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kaninja
NO, I meant Bulldozer....thanks.
 Johhny Doe
And I have more ATi cards than nVidia. Does that mean I used them for longer periods or I'm still using them?
 I shall now talk via pictures....
post edited by seronx - 2011/07/16 17:46:56
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Johhny Doe
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Re:AMD Bulldozer Benchmark Leak from Donanimhaber
2011/07/16 17:52:45
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I'm facepalming all of to ΥOUR nonsensical posts about having some old P4 machine bla bla and being and Intel fan because of it. Read back the thread before уou insult ΥOUR own intelligence. Thanks.
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