enkrypt3d
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The game runs at 40-70 FPS but bottoms out each time the graph on the top goes from 100% power to 30% 10 times a second.... temps are about 70C and what's even weirder it causes my lamp to flicker as well (on the same power strip / UPS) What is causing this? I dont have any issues in forza 5 / doom eternal or anything else...... MSFS 2020 is a hog. even in safe mode and clean install it does the same thing. no 3rd party mods or anything installed. on the latest NV drivers. https://imgur.com/a/E84bAOm
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HeavyHemi
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/27 23:50:55
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enkrypt3d
The game runs at 40-70 FPS but bottoms out each time the graph on the top goes from 100% power to 30% 10 times a second.... temps are about 70C and what's even weirder it causes my lamp to flicker as well (on the same power strip / UPS)
What is causing this? I dont have any issues in forza 5 / doom eternal or anything else...... MSFS 2020 is a hog. even in safe mode and clean install it does the same thing. no 3rd party mods or anything installed. on the latest NV drivers.
https://imgur.com/a/E84bAOm
If your lamp is flickering, I'd say you have a power issue. What size is your UPS? Personally, I don't have things like lamps on a UPS. I'm currently using  https://www.cyberpowersys...pp-sinewave/pr2200lcd/Another year or so it will be due for another set of batteries. Takes about 20 minutes or so.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/28 14:17:24
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HeavyHemi
enkrypt3d
The game runs at 40-70 FPS but bottoms out each time the graph on the top goes from 100% power to 30% 10 times a second.... temps are about 70C and what's even weirder it causes my lamp to flicker as well (on the same power strip / UPS)
What is causing this? I dont have any issues in forza 5 / doom eternal or anything else...... MSFS 2020 is a hog. even in safe mode and clean install it does the same thing. no 3rd party mods or anything installed. on the latest NV drivers.
https://imgur.com/a/E84bAOm
If your lamp is flickering, I'd say you have a power issue. What size is your UPS? Personally, I don't have things like lamps on a UPS. I'm currently using
https://www.cyberpowersys...pp-sinewave/pr2200lcd/
Another year or so it will be due for another set of batteries. Takes about 20 minutes or so.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 Just got this in october and it never gets above 725W when gaming.... MSFS 2020 is the only game that does this. like i said no other load causes the card's power limit to bounce up and down like that 30 times a second..... why is it doing this? Just updated the VBIOS to the latest.... Forza 5 runs at 70-80 FPS at 4K 144Hz on ultra with no issues.
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HeavyHemi
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/28 22:05:11
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enkrypt3d
HeavyHemi
enkrypt3d
The game runs at 40-70 FPS but bottoms out each time the graph on the top goes from 100% power to 30% 10 times a second.... temps are about 70C and what's even weirder it causes my lamp to flicker as well (on the same power strip / UPS)
What is causing this? I dont have any issues in forza 5 / doom eternal or anything else...... MSFS 2020 is a hog. even in safe mode and clean install it does the same thing. no 3rd party mods or anything installed. on the latest NV drivers.
https://imgur.com/a/E84bAOm
If your lamp is flickering, I'd say you have a power issue. What size is your UPS? Personally, I don't have things like lamps on a UPS. I'm currently using
https://www.cyberpowersys...pp-sinewave/pr2200lcd/
Another year or so it will be due for another set of batteries. Takes about 20 minutes or so.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Just got this in october and it never gets above 725W when gaming.... MSFS 2020 is the only game that does this. like i said no other load causes the card's power limit to bounce up and down like that 30 times a second..... why is it doing this? Just updated the VBIOS to the latest.... Forza 5 runs at 70-80 FPS at 4K 144Hz on ultra with no issues.
Are you running MS2020 in DX11 or DX12? DX12 is a stuttering mess.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/30 08:30:57
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DX11 is the one I am running on now. Same stuttering mess.
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 13:09:10
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It is normal to see some up/down spikes in "total power" depending on scenery being loaded/drawn, but not as pronounced as in your charts. The flickering lights make me think the PSU is demanding more instantaneous power than the UPS can deliver -- but that's odd both because you don't see it in other games, and because I have the same 3090 and same UPS as you, and I'm not having any issues. Have you tested without the UPS? Have you tried an older driver? Another thought, you might try deleting the MSFS2020 rolling cache, perhaps there's something problematic in there. For comparison, here are the same charts from my system. 12900k, 3090 FTW3 Ultra (stock speeds), same Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD as you, DX11, MSFS2022 at highest settings (but vsync'd to 60fps). Another difference is that I am using driver version 497.29. https://imgur.com/vckxsZ3
post edited by Scott_W - 2022/05/31 14:12:35
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 13:11:09
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Scott_W
It is normal to see some up/down spikes in "total power" depending on scenery being loaded/drawn, but not as pronounced as in your charts. The flickering lights make me think the PSU is demanding more instantaneous power than the UPS can deliver -- but that's odd both because you don't see it in other games, and because I have the same 3090 and same UPS as you, and I'm not having any issues. Have you tested without the UPS? Have you tried an older driver?
Another thought, you might try deleting the MSFS2020 rolling cache, perhaps there's something problematic in there.
For comparison, here are the same charts from my system. 12900k, 3090 FTW3 Ultra Gaming (stock speeds), same Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD as you, MSFS202 at highest settings (but vsync'd to 60fps). Another difference is that I am using driver version 497.29.
https://imgur.com/vckxsZ3
What VBIOS are you on? That's the only thing that has really changed recently.... https://imgur.com/a/MDdVnnz
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 13:16:52
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My vbios shows 94.02.42.C0.05, switch is in the normal (non-overclocked) position.
Not sure what the card originally had -- I bought it in March, and first time I fired up PrecisionX1 it updated to the one listed above.
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 13:19:54
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Oh... And I also have REBAR disabled in pc bios -- haven't gotten around to trying it. 
post edited by Scott_W - 2022/05/31 13:23:00
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 14:41:34
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Test it out w/out the UPS.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 14:48:05
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GTXJackBauer
Test it out w/out the UPS.
MSFS 2020 is the only game that has this problem. it's not a UPS issue. Farcry 6, Forza 5 everything works like a champ. Brand new UPS.... not even using 50% of it's power and it's not like it's a bottleneck. It's either a driver or game bug. Doom eternal runs at 120FPS or more at 4K with no issues and it pulls about 750W from the UPS.
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GTXJackBauer
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 14:52:38
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enkrypt3d
GTXJackBauer
Test it out w/out the UPS.
MSFS 2020 is the only game that has this problem. it's not a UPS issue. Farcry 6, Forza 5 everything works like a champ. Brand new UPS.... not even using 50% of it's power and it's not like it's a bottleneck. It's either a driver or game bug. Doom eternal runs at 120FPS or more at 4K with no issues and it pulls about 750W from the UPS.
Completely understand but for the sake of troubleshooting, it's always best to start default/stock to see what may arrise in your findings.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 15:00:55
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GTXJackBauer
enkrypt3d
GTXJackBauer
Test it out w/out the UPS.
MSFS 2020 is the only game that has this problem. it's not a UPS issue. Farcry 6, Forza 5 everything works like a champ. Brand new UPS.... not even using 50% of it's power and it's not like it's a bottleneck. It's either a driver or game bug. Doom eternal runs at 120FPS or more at 4K with no issues and it pulls about 750W from the UPS.
Completely understand but for the sake of troubleshooting, it's always best to start default/stock to see what may arrise in your findings.
This hasn't always been the issue. It used to work fine so I don't expect the UPS to be causing an issue suddenly with one game. I've done clean installs for MSFS several times.
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 17:35:41
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I also would not expect the UPS to _cause_ an issue. But MSFS may be presenting a different load profile with how it renders scenery, and the UPS could have a problem that is only _exhibited_ under those conditions. It's "unlikely but possible" so it needs to be ruled out, and its an easy test -- then people can forget about the UPS and think about other possible causes.
post edited by Scott_W - 2022/05/31 21:22:13
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ty_ger07
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/05/31 19:48:37
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The flickering lights makes me agree that a power issue is one of the indications and you should try without the UPS.
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kraade
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 17:53:51
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And what is the voltage at the wall feeding the ups.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 18:21:04
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kraade
And what is the voltage at the wall feeding the ups.
It's on a 120V 15A circuit by itself... so plenty of power.
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 18:28:12
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Has the circuit been tested under load? A undersized wire or bad connection can cause voltage drop or insufficient current flow when loaded. The UPS _should_ respond to that, but it is possible for load spikes to be short enough duration that the UPS isn’t triggered. And if those load spikes are unique to how MSFS2020 loads and renders scenery, they might not show up in other games. I would recommend both trying without the UPS, and trying on a different circuit. It you continue to dismiss every possible cause suggested without testing it, then there is really no reason for more suggestions from folks here. I agree with you that it is most likely a driver or card issue, but you seem unwilling to do any testing to narrow it down — so maybe you’d be best to just RMA the card and see if a replacement fixes it.
post edited by Scott_W - 2022/06/01 18:39:13
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badboy64
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 18:31:08
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Try newer drivers or could be just a game issue since it doesn't affect other games at all. Try it without the UPS as others have suggested also.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 18:38:58
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The reason I am dismissing the UPS / power problem is many reasons: It only happens in MSFS 2020. All other games run 80+ FPS or more on ultra with zero lag or stuttering also pulling the same amount of power from the UPS. ~700W which is half of what this UPS is rated for.... It wasn't always like this. This game used to run fine. I've had this 3090 since it launched and had zero performance problems until now. Why would this suddenly present itself when nothing has changed except the software? If it was a power problem then it would have always been there not appear out of the blue with no rhyme or reason. FYI on 512.95 NV drivers
post edited by enkrypt3d - 2022/06/01 18:55:05
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ty_ger07
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 19:13:36
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It's on a 120V 15A circuit by itself... so plenty of power. The question wasn't what the circuit's rating is. The question was the actual measurement. Scott_W
I would recommend both trying without the UPS, and trying on a different circuit. It you continue to dismiss every possible cause suggested without testing it, then there is really no reason for more suggestions from folks here.
Agreed
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 19:36:47
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ty_ger07
It's on a 120V 15A circuit by itself... so plenty of power.
The question wasn't what the circuit's rating is. The question was the actual measurement.
Scott_W
I would recommend both trying without the UPS, and trying on a different circuit. It you continue to dismiss every possible cause suggested without testing it, then there is really no reason for more suggestions from folks here.
Agreed
The UPS shows no more than 750W so why would that be any different?
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ty_ger07
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 19:42:07
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enkrypt3d
ty_ger07
It's on a 120V 15A circuit by itself... so plenty of power.
The question wasn't what the circuit's rating is. The question was the actual measurement.
Scott_W
I would recommend both trying without the UPS, and trying on a different circuit. It you continue to dismiss every possible cause suggested without testing it, then there is really no reason for more suggestions from folks here.
Agreed
The UPS shows no more than 750W so why would that be any different?
750 watts isn't a measurement of the line voltage. As stated by Scott, a bad electrical connection anywhere in that circuit can cause the voltage to drop, the UPS will jump to battery backup, the voltage will rise back up, the UPS will go back to wall power, and over and over again very rapidly. Or the UPS could simply be failed/defective. The lights flickering is absolutely an indication of a power problem and there is no amount of explaining that away with any driver or software explanation. Things fail. Things that used to work stop working. And things fail in some conditions but not others.
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kraade
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:02:38
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that's why I was asking, If you pulled out a fluke and measured it and then measured it when its loaded , or took a 14 ga or better extension cord from a different circuit and tried it, I run MSFS on 3080s 3090s and 3090ti and they all act similar, every update seems to move the needle too, most recent ones are smoother, but I got a 3090ti about the time I had my Pool installed and ran a temp line to the pool pump, had no idea it was on the same circuit as my PC but I had one hell of a problem with it on MSFS and discovered that the pool pump was drawing on my computers available power and was causing instability, moved the pump draw and everything is ok
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:08:03
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To add to what ty_ger07 correctly says, there is also a time averaging function for the UPS display. An instantaneously peak of a few milliseconds will not be seen there, because it is averaging over a longer period (probably at least 0.5s, maybe more, between display updates). There could be instantaneous demands beyond 750w that are simply not being displayed.
It certainly sounds more like a software problem, but others with MSFS2020 and 3090 FTW3 aren’t having the same issue — so it makes sense to eliminate possible environmental problems like your power delivery. If you insist on refusing all suggestions to rule out issues, then there’s really no point in asking for any suggestions.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:23:08
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Also the lamp is plugged into the non-battery backed up side of the UPS and not the battery side.... no need to run an LED lamp off a UPS. regardless it does the same thing whether I'm plugged into the UPS directly or not. Same issues on a different outlet on a different circuit. Also the UPS isn't making any alarms and isn't tripping or clicking over to battery due to over or under current protection. either way it's not a UPS issue as it's still happening without it.
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:23:51
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Also…. Have you tried with ReBar disabled? That and the Nvidia driver versions seem to be a big difference in our configurations.
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enkrypt3d
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:32:26
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Scott_W
Also…. Have you tried with ReBar disabled? That and the Nvidia driver versions seem to be a big difference in our configurations.
I'll try it - what do the different bar sizes mean? https://imgur.com/a/4nloYJ0
post edited by enkrypt3d - 2022/06/01 20:34:29
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Scott_W
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 20:38:45
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I don’t know regarding the bar sizes, perhaps someone else can advise. But benefits of rebar are generally pretty minor, so I’d suggest (at least as a test) to disable it entirely in UEFI and see if there is any effect on the issues you are having.
post edited by Scott_W - 2022/06/01 20:40:41
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AHowes
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Re: 3090 FTW3 Ultra MSFS 2020 shuddering / thermal throttling?
2022/06/01 21:31:45
(permalink)
Scott_W
I don’t know regarding the bar sizes, perhaps someone else can advise. But benefits of rebar are generally pretty minor, so I’d suggest (at least as a test) to disable it entirely in UEFI and see if there is any effect on the issues you are having.
Thats a great suggestion!
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