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Helpful ReplyHot!12 +4 cable for rtx4000

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witty245
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2022/09/24 06:03:05 (permalink)
will evga be offering a cable like corsair

Corsair releases 12+4 pin 12VHPWR power connectors to upgrade their existing PSUs
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jonkrmr
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 06:31:54 (permalink)
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.

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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 06:45:07 (permalink)
jonkrmr
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.


That is correct. In my personal opinion I recommend using an ATX 3.0 PSU with a 40 series NVIDIA card.

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frankd3
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 06:50:40 (permalink)
EDIT: nevermind. The question was for existing power supplies. My bad.
post edited by frankd3 - 2022/09/24 06:52:29

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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 06:59:38 (permalink)
I would say that the current PerFE cables will likely work just fine.
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Baasha
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 08:40:58 (permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
I would say that the current PerFE cables will likely work just fine.



That means the 4090 would need just 2x 8-pin connectors from the PSU? I thought the adapter has 3x 8-pin for the 4090? I know the 'extra' 4-pin plug on the 12-pin side is just for comms from the GPU to the PSU but as far as power delivery is concerned, especially when OC'd, would the 2x 8-pin connectors from the PSU be enough for the 4090 (when OC'd)?
 
We need an OFFICIAL answer from EVGA. I have the EVGA 1600T2 PSU (2 of them actually) and a couple of PerFE cables that I use with the 3090 Ti's.
 
Will the PerFE cable suffice for the RTX 4090 (Founder's Edition) and will the 1600T2 PSU work properly with this GPU?
 

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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 08:59:41 (permalink)
Baasha
That means the 4090 would need just 2x 8-pin connectors from the PSU? I thought the adapter has 3x 8-pin for the 4090? I know the 'extra' 4-pin plug on the 12-pin side is just for comms from the GPU to the PSU but as far as power delivery is concerned, especially when OC'd, would the 2x 8-pin connectors from the PSU be enough for the 4090 (when OC'd)?
 
We need an OFFICIAL answer from EVGA. I have the EVGA 1600T2 PSU (2 of them actually) and a couple of PerFE cables that I use with the 3090 Ti's.
 
Will the PerFE cable suffice for the RTX 4090 (Founder's Edition) and will the 1600T2 PSU work properly with this GPU?
 


I’ve already done a tear down of the 3x8 pin to show that in the end, there is only two cables worth of wires connected to the 12 pin side. The quantity of cables powering the card with 3 connectors versus two does not change, there is still only 12 cables overall going to the 12 pin. This is why the PerFE cable works fine for the 3090ti and will likely be exactly the same for the 4090.

Changing the male connector to a smaller pin, and the female connector to a smaller pin isn’t going to suddenly make a 16awg wire handled hundreds of watt as more. 12 cables is 12 cables, no matter how you look at it. Two 6 pins from the PerFE cable is going to be the same as 12 cables from a 12 pin. The only difference from the Standard 8 pin and the PerFE cable is that instead of 5 ground and 3 positive, you are getting 3 ground and 3 positive like the 12 pin uses respectively. The 4 sense pins are just ground for the card to think it has a 12 pin, there isn’t actual information exchange to tell the GPU or PSU that the proper hardware is being used.

NVidia patented a connector so the change they wanted to see, and changed the rating of the same size cable that was already in use. As long as you have a sufficient power supply, you should be perfectly fine.

https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3573703
post edited by the_Scarlet_one - 2022/09/24 09:01:30
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MSim
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/24 17:28:34 (permalink)
jonkrmr
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.


 
Why would that matter?
 
Corsair doesn't make graphics cards. EVGA would be shooting themselves in the foot not to release one like Corsair has.
 


 
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/25 06:13:43 (permalink)
jonkrmr
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.


I hope EVGA will make ATX 3.0 compatible power supplies with the PCIe GPU 12+4 pin connector. 

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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/25 07:18:42 (permalink)
rjohnson11
jonkrmr
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.


I hope EVGA will make ATX 3.0 compatible power supplies with the PCIe GPU 12+4 pin connector. 


I think it's very likely that they will. Gamers Nexus said that their contact at EVGA said they were working on new psu's.
To remain competitive they would have to have high power ones that meet the new spec.

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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/25 07:29:35 (permalink)
witty245
will evga be offering a cable like corsair

Corsair releases 12+4 pin 12VHPWR power connectors to upgrade their existing PSUs

Yes and the cable should be able to provide enough voltage but the 4 data pins are unused with ATX 2.0 PSUs. That is a concern for me. 

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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/26 10:44:32 (permalink)
rjohnson11
jonkrmr
Probably not since EVGA is not making any 4000 series or any other GPUs anymore.


I hope EVGA will make ATX 3.0 compatible power supplies with the PCIe GPU 12+4 pin connector. 




I would certainly think so. There are plenty of PSU manufactures that have nothing to do with GPUs. Its simply a standard to integrate into their product to make sales. I just hope EVGA will put ATX 3.0 PSUs on the shelf in time, is my concern.

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witty245
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/09/28 03:37:48 (permalink)
lets hope they will as if not i dont think evga will feature in any of my future builds what ashamed as their warranty service  alone was cause to pay extra 
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JDauwalter
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/25 09:40:06 (permalink)
So this cable https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-NK-3000-B9 will or will not work for a 4090? Do we have a 100% solid answer for this?
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frankd3
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/25 10:16:49 (permalink)
JDauwalter
So this cable https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-NK-3000-B9 will or will not work for a 4090? Do we have a 100% solid answer for this?


Answer is no.   https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3578179
Discussed extensively in that thread but simple answer is the link above.
post edited by frankd3 - 2022/10/25 10:19:21

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EVGA_Lee
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/25 10:47:45 (permalink)
JDauwalter
So this cable https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-NK-3000-B9 will or will not work for a 4090? Do we have a 100% solid answer for this?


No, it won't work.  It won't cause any harm to try, but the card won't turn on due to the lack of sense connectors.
 
Which is probably why it's a good thing we're working on a cable that can work with 40 Series....
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alceryes
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/25 15:01:15 (permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
I’ve already done a tear down of the 3x8 pin to show that in the end, there is only two cables worth of wires connected to the 12 pin side. The quantity of cables powering the card with 3 connectors versus two does not change, there is still only 12 cables overall going to the 12 pin. This is why the PerFE cable works fine for the 3090ti and will likely be exactly the same for the 4090.

Changing the male connector to a smaller pin, and the female connector to a smaller pin isn’t going to suddenly make a 16awg wire handled hundreds of watt as more. 12 cables is 12 cables, no matter how you look at it. Two 6 pins from the PerFE cable is going to be the same as 12 cables from a 12 pin. The only difference from the Standard 8 pin and the PerFE cable is that instead of 5 ground and 3 positive, you are getting 3 ground and 3 positive like the 12 pin uses respectively. The 4 sense pins are just ground for the card to think it has a 12 pin, there isn’t actual information exchange to tell the GPU or PSU that the proper hardware is being used.

NVidia patented a connector so the change they wanted to see, and changed the rating of the same size cable that was already in use. As long as you have a sufficient power supply, you should be perfectly fine.



The quantity of 8-pin cables powering the 12+4 pin adapter definitely matters. Those 8-pin cables are only rated at 150W each. Using less then all of them could mean that you are using the 8-pin cables out of their 150W spec.
Does the PerFE cable have sense pins? You definitely need the sense pins for the RTX 4090. Different combinations of two sense pins being open or grounded tell the GPU whether the 12+4 pin cable is rated at 150W, 300W, 450W, or 600W. Without any sense pins the card sees a 150W cable and won't even work with the RTX 4090.
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/25 15:50:48 (permalink)
alceryes
The quantity of 8-pin cables powering the 12+4 pin adapter definitely matters. Those 8-pin cables are only rated at 150W each. Using less then all of them could mean that you are using the 8-pin cables out of their 150W spec.
Does the PerFE cable have sense pins? You definitely need the sense pins for the RTX 4090. Different combinations of two sense pins being open or grounded tell the GPU whether the 12+4 pin cable is rated at 150W, 300W, 450W, or 600W. Without any sense pins the card sees a 150W cable and won't even work with the RTX 4090.


Feel free to argue this point all you want. Again, the 8 pins are rated for a 2008 spec. That doesn’t stop users from under-specced or under-rated PSU with four 8 pins.

You are arguing a completely moot point. The 12 pin is using two 6 pins in a smaller format, and a higher rating. Nothing more. The sense pins can be tricked by grounding them anyway possible. The sense pins are not smart and do not know what is actually happening.

The PerFE cable only uses two 6 pins. The other two spots on each “8 pin” are empty.

The Corsair cables for the 4090 only use 6 power cables from each “8pin” and the. Two grounds to sense pin. That is still only two 6 pins providing power to the 4090. Feel free to argue that however you want, but NVidia and PCI-sig are LITERALLY covering their bums with lies and “specs”. The four 8 pins are combined together on single rails, and still only have twelve 16awg cables providing power with two sense pins for ground. The four 8 pin cable does have a smart availing to send a signal and say “three” or “four” cables are connected. Guess what. If you only connected three cables on each of those 8 pins, the plugs wouldn’t have an idea, because all of the power cables going into the octopus are joined together on a single rail.

Again, feel free to argue moot points, but it will fall on deaf ears because it doesn’t matter what you argue while the PSU manufacturers have already shown it does.. not.. matter.
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alceryes
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/26 06:17:42 (permalink)
the_Scarlet_one
Feel free to argue this point all you want. Again, the 8 pins are rated for a 2008 spec. That doesn’t stop users from under-specced or under-rated PSU with four 8 pins.

You are arguing a completely moot point. The 12 pin is using two 6 pins in a smaller format, and a higher rating. Nothing more. The sense pins can be tricked by grounding them anyway possible. The sense pins are not smart and do not know what is actually happening.

The PerFE cable only uses two 6 pins. The other two spots on each “8 pin” are empty.

The Corsair cables for the 4090 only use 6 power cables from each “8pin” and the. Two grounds to sense pin. That is still only two 6 pins providing power to the 4090. Feel free to argue that however you want, but NVidia and PCI-sig are LITERALLY covering their bums with lies and “specs”. The four 8 pins are combined together on single rails, and still only have twelve 16awg cables providing power with two sense pins for ground. The four 8 pin cable does have a smart availing to send a signal and say “three” or “four” cables are connected. Guess what. If you only connected three cables on each of those 8 pins, the plugs wouldn’t have an idea, because all of the power cables going into the octopus are joined together on a single rail.

Again, feel free to argue moot points, but it will fall on deaf ears because it doesn’t matter what you argue while the PSU manufacturers have already shown it does.. not.. matter.

Not arguing, just a discussion.
I didn't know that the PerFE cable had sense pins. If they have properly configured sense pins then yes, the cable will work. However, it only takes a glance on NVIDIA reddit to see that the EVGA PerFE cable is NOT working with some RTX 4090 cards. Of couse the sense pins don't send any logic. As I stated above, it's a combination of open (no grounded) and closed (grounded) that the GPU reads to know what the 12+4pin is rated for. Sense pins being grounded (by going against the 12VHPWR spec) and sense pins not being there are two different things. Here is how it's supposed to work -

 
I never said that the GPU would know how many 8-pins are connected. The GPU's knowledge of the number of 8-pins connected is limited to the configuration of the 2 sense pins (the 2 extra pins will be used for signaling in the future). The card can be tricked into thinking it's a 600W rated connection very easily and mfgs. are already doing this. It's more an issue of running an 8-pin over their rated wattage when using less than all 4. Some PSUs and cables will be able to handle this without issue, others won't.
 
 Edit - Ugh. Still can't post pics and links. Check out Gamers Nexus video from 6 days ago on the 4090 adapter. At about the 8:15 mark he shows the scematic that Igor's Lab came up with regarding the sense pins.
post edited by alceryes - 2022/10/26 06:20:02
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/26 18:19:46 (permalink)
https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3573703

Shows how the sense pins are set up, from over a month ago. I understand the 4090 layout is a little different because the sense goes to the +2 side, where the 3090ti was going into the 12 pin, but the layout is exactly the same for how they work. The only difference is you can see the actual circuits and actual sense board without having to imagine the circuitry. For some reason, everyone likes drawing rather than actually seeing the PCB for themselves, and reviewers refuse to tear the cable apart to actually see what is going on. But hey, if you prefer line art over actual pcbs, go for it, and your image link works, but you posted it wrong. Your link has to end in .jpg, so right click (or long press if I’m mobile) and open image in a new tab. If you are posting straight to Imgur.com as a image link, it will never work, it’s a forum limitation that we have to work around as the image link has to be to an actual image, not a website.

The PerFE cables don’t have sense pins. I never stated the PerFE cables did have sense pins, I actually said they only have two 6 pin cables to make 12. For sense pins, there would be 7 cables per 8 pin not 6.

The Corsair cables have 7 pins, making two 6 pins with an extra ground to sense.

NVidia has built a smart cable that works exactly the same as dumb cables, but can limit your power cap. Nothing more. Even NVidia cut the actual data sense pins off and just left dead wires in their stupid connector.
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mchcheung
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/28 07:41:29 (permalink)
EVGATech_LeeM
Which is probably why it's a good thing we're working on a cable that can work with 40 Series....

Good to know evga is working on the cable. I bought an EVGA psu last year and can't spend more money on a new psu (especially if i am upgrading the gpu).
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gleamindemon
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/28 11:52:28 (permalink)
Question for EVGATech_LeeM this might be too niche of a product but can we get a right angle adapter that has a 450w/600w selector switch where the adapter will ground the correct sense pins for the graphics card.  that way the current EVGA PerFE 12 Cable owners can plug into it and use their existing cable and it can also function as a right angle adapter for the new cable hopefully it is named the EVGA PerFE 16. i mostly added the part about the selector switch because i don't know if the PerFe 12 is designed to handle 600 watts if it is no need for the switch even if it is setup as a 450w adapter it will be fine my 4090 is still awesome without the overclock.
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EVGA_Lee
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/28 12:15:03 (permalink)
gleamindemon
Question for EVGATech_LeeM this might be too niche of a product but can we get a right angle adapter that has a 450w/600w selector switch where the adapter will ground the correct sense pins for the graphics card.  that way the current EVGA PerFE 12 Cable owners can plug into it and use their existing cable and it can also function as a right angle adapter for the new cable hopefully it is named the EVGA PerFE 16. i mostly added the part about the selector switch because i don't know if the PerFe 12 is designed to handle 600 watts if it is no need for the switch even if it is setup as a 450w adapter it will be fine my 4090 is still awesome without the overclock.

I can suggest it to our team, but no plans for a right-angle adapter at this time.  PerFE 12 is not rated for 600W.  It's pretty close, but not up to 600W.
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gleamindemon
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/28 14:29:10 (permalink)
I understand, I know evga has made these type of adapters in the past for older 2000 series gpus so I will remain hopeful but if evga does decide to make a right angle connector can it have the 450w sense pin already grounded for the PerFe 12 owners and have the 600w sense pin be a passthrough so if someone has the new (PerFe 16) cable they will have the full 600 watts available and if the have the PerFe12 will be limited to 450w using it.  that way it can also function as a 450w adapter for the old cable and if Nvidia is going to be using this connector on its lower powered cards it could help sell off the remaining stock of the PerFe cables for people who have evga power supplies and be used as a right angle adapter option for people who get the new cable. not sure how it would work with full atx3.0 spec cables and power supplies when they come out but i am thinking the 450watt sense pin grounding could be a physical connection that is bypassed when a 12vhpwr connector that has sense pins is plugged into the adapter.  these are just ideas to pass along if EVGA decides to make an adapter.  and if you need a beta tester for the new cable evga already has my billing and shipping info because if the 400% increase in orders cablemods website claims it has seen is true and the 4080 isn't even on market yet your cord is going to be sold out before I can buy one.
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dpt17
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/29 11:14:42 (permalink)
Glad to hear that there is work going on for cables for 40-series.  I placed an order for Cablemod ones that are listed as EVGA T2 compatible (which is what I have).  If the EVGA ones were to be available soon, I'd rather give you my $ and take your 1st party product vs a 3rd party (Cablemod).


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Talon2020
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/10/30 22:20:24 (permalink)
Good to hear yall working on a compatible cable for our existing PSUs. I have an EVGA 1000w P6 and 1600w T2 that definitely don't need replacing anytime soon. 
 
Any ETA for the cable? 4090s are burning up over here. 

i9 13900K | EVGA Z690 DARK | NVIDIA RTX 4090 FE | 32gb DDR5 8000 CL36 SK Hynix A-Die | Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | EVGA 1000 P6 | LG C1 55 OLED 4K 120Hz G-Sync
#26
gleamindemon
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/11/03 08:30:21 (permalink)
I did a live chat with Nvidia support and they said using the cablemod cable would void the warranty on my founders edition 4090 but maybe not for other vendors cards will this also apply for the new evga cord when it comes out or are you all working with Nvidia to develop this so it will be covered under warranty?  this is something I never thought about with the PerFe 12 for my 3090ti but burning connectors was not a problem on those cards.
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the_Scarlet_one
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/11/03 09:18:26 (permalink)
NVidia isn’t saying your warranty will be void for using the CableMod cable with the founders, they are saying they will attempt to void your warranty if you use ANY cable other than their adapter with the founders.

You’ll have to ask every manufacturer. Evga doesn’t set the rule for other manufacturers warranties.
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EVGATech_DanielM
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/11/03 10:45:11 (permalink)
It's possible they mean they will void the warranty should damage arise from the CableMod cable if it fails. I am not sure how they would be able to determine the warranty if no damage is present. 
 
 
 
 
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EVGA_Lee
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Re: 12 +4 cable for rtx4000 2022/11/03 10:46:45 (permalink)
EVGATech_DanielM
It's possible they mean they will void the warranty should damage arise from the CableMod cable if it fails. I am not sure how they would be able to determine the warranty if no damage is present. 

Tiny invisible cameras on the inside of the power socket, of course.
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