devlin85

bcavnaugh
It will not be very long before Devlin85 will have taken the left chart as well, this is what I think is going to breaking our team for me.
Our Points are not even enough to show up in the right chart anymore. Sorry now that I even brought this up. Sorry Team

don't worry, i'm ending it after 7 days, so it will be around the 1 billion mark when I shut 'er down, which would be less than 1/4 of the points. It was never my intention to run this long term. And it sounds like a few people are going to do some testing of their own  

I have to ask then, what is the goal or point of what you are doing today that will change in 7 days or 1 billion mark?
 
One Completed Task CPU GPU and ASIC:

Punchy

Viper97
I'd settle for reasonable points... not ungodly points... after I finish knocking a few billion off... that is.
 
Actually I'll probably just mine coins to get the hang of things this way I don't disturb the rankings much.  Once that's figured out (I figure that's the hardest thing to do is make mining for coins and all the things you need to do ahead for wallets and all, then perhaps Crunching will be interesting for a bit.)

You'll be rich!  According to one of the reviews of that product, at today's prices you will be raking in 40-45 cents per day (before subtracting the electricity costs of 2.4kWh/day).  If your electricity is 10 cents / kWh, it will take 260 days for the mining device to pay for itself (if difficulty did not increase).  By then, with ever-increasing mining difficulty, you should be making a profit of 10 cents per day or less.
 
Not that it isn't an interesting educational experience, but perhaps now you see why I am cynical about the benefit of this type of donation versus donating the money directly upfront.

Punchy So then even if it is for a Project the cost to donating of cash then in the long run Cash Donations are best?

Punchy

Viper97
I'd settle for reasonable points... not ungodly points... after I finish knocking a few billion off... that is.
 
Actually I'll probably just mine coins to get the hang of things this way I don't disturb the rankings much.  Once that's figured out (I figure that's the hardest thing to do is make mining for coins and all the things you need to do ahead for wallets and all, then perhaps Crunching will be interesting for a bit.)

You'll be rich!  According to one of the reviews of that product, at today's prices you will be raking in 40-45 cents per day (before subtracting the electricity costs of 2.4kWh/day).  If your electricity is 10 cents / kWh, it will take 260 days for the mining device to pay for itself (if difficulty did not increase).  By then, with ever-increasing mining difficulty, you should be making a profit of 10 cents per day or less.
 
Not that it isn't an interesting educational experience, but perhaps now you see why I am cynical about the benefit of this type of donation versus donating the money directly upfront.

But Scrooge McDuck says 10 cents a day is a start to a fortune!  Oh and I calculated 79 cents based on my loose understanding.  Hey it's $80 bucks to play.... yeesh.  Okay, then I'll just take my toy and beat the heck out of the stats pages. 
 
BC... there really isn't a real reason to do things like this... it's just learning for me.  For 80 bucks it's a cheap lesson in setting things up in Linux and Windows.... beats them courses I had to take to get this job!

Viper97
Really, if you want to think about it... Cuarc is right... donate money.  We spent a lot of our money on electricity, what do we get out of it?  Only one thing I can think of, it's fun racing each other.

How do you measure those races except with points?
Yet, at the same time you are willing to let those points be devalued to nothing by one absurdly-pointed project?
 

 
We could all just send the money in... let them rent a super computer... it's probably cheaper and faster too with less headaches from PO'd donors.

Realistically you can't rent a supercomputer, cluster etc for cheaper than the money we all spend on electricity, because the provider has electricity, facility, depreciation costs.
 
I do not see things heading in a positive direction here.  There are a few who are clearly upset by the unbalanced points, and there are a few that seem to be flaunting those points.  That's like putting matter and anti-matter together.  I hope people will try to be more considerate of others' points of view.
 
 

Punchy

Viper97
Really, if you want to think about it... Cuarc is right... donate money.  We spent a lot of our money on electricity, what do we get out of it?  Only one thing I can think of, it's fun racing each other.

How do you measure those races except with points?
Yet, at the same time you are willing to let those points be devalued to nothing by one absurdly-pointed project?
 

 
We could all just send the money in... let them rent a super computer... it's probably cheaper and faster too with less headaches from PO'd donors.

Realistically you can't rent a supercomputer, cluster etc for cheaper than the money we all spend on electricity, because the provider has electricity, facility, depreciation costs.
 
I do not see things heading in a positive direction here.  There are a few who are clearly upset by the unbalanced points, and there are a few that seem to be flaunting those points.  That's like putting matter and anti-matter together.  I hope people will try to be more considerate of others' points of view.
 

You missed my sarcasm... Why do we bother beating folks up about points?  There's a plan that is being circulated to even the playing field.  I agree that the points are crazy... but still it is what it is.  Same can be said when I flip my 980's to folding... from the looks of it, one of them is going to generate approximately the same amount of points as my 4p 48C.
 
Some folks are point centric as I pointed out (no pun intended), some just like to race, some like to find cures and hope they are helping science, some see this as a  big scam by large pharma to generate cures to sell us at astronomical prices.  It all depends on perspective of the person viewing the situation.
 
Me, I just have fun... screw the background noise.  If I learn something new it's all good....  if I learn something bad well that's a lesson too!  (Just don't repeat bad lesson... I learned that already.)

Sorry Tex... I'm bench marking my 670's now... I need a Display port cable which will be in Saturday... for the 980 and then I'll bench mark it.  I'm afraid even with overnight service you'd have a heckuva time getting it back to me...

It's all good my friend... I love playing with technology also... wouldn't trade it for the world.  Well maybe, if I were Emperor and all my hand maidens were, oh good lord... shut up Viper! 

Viper97, check your PM's. It may interest you and let me know if you think others would find it helpful.

Afterburner
Why does Nascar not allow F-35's to race against their cars every Sunday? Or why will the NFL not allow a female lingerie football team to be one of the teams that plays every Sunday?

 
Because the F-35 is a hunk of junk waiting for an accident and NASCAR doesn't want the added expense of having to clean up after it?
 
This coming from an old military naval aviation type dude.

Here is another angle... This makes our job even harder as we look for new folks as 95% of the planet has no idea what is going on.
 
If points did not matter, no sport would use them to measure one team over another.
 
And as we have points... It is a measuring tool. 
 
This is one reason why the Captains exist. To work through these things before they just allow or create the @EVGA for that project. Unfortunately this one slipped through and is a wonderful learning experience. No one did anything wrong... However this issue should have been talked through first. As we see the dilemma we are in now.
 
Now...
 
It may be to late. It may not matter. But I saw for "YEARS" this idea the Stanford/PG would take care of their issue. Never did.... How did that turn out? And I for one would rather have people be upset with me for bring this up, than have the team self destruct like other teams have or we nearly did with folding...
 
I truly am trying to think about every member all the way down to the 80/20 rule. What would 80% of the team decide to do today with mining, knowing what they know now?
 
So here we are talking through it. If the majority want me to shut up, I will.

AB,
 
This discussion was the correct thing to do and has been useful. 
 
I would not necessarily compare this situation to what happened in Folding and that is simply because I don't know the people at BOINC or that they will fail to take action (as PG did).  The people at PG became known for it, ignored even their own Folding Team Representatives and thereby basically disregarded the concerns of Folders.  In my personal email conversations with Dr Pande, it became pretty clear to me that he is a good person that had difficulty taking real, effective action.  He preferred to allow his Mods inside the Folding Forum to deal with User concerns and they had no authority to do anything. It was a failed leadership situation from within and at the top that was/is destined to have the kind of problems we all observed for years.
 
Maybe someone that has experience with these BOINC Developers can comment on what we may expect from them.  If they take their time to carefully seek input and effect a fix, even if that takes months, I would give them a thumbs up.  That is my hope at this point.

Afterburner, this is one "Token" project that is currently in operation. Donate@home came before them. Just because it was a GPU instead of an ASIC makes it no different in concept. It's points were higher than most other GPU projects. GPUGrid (whom are the ones that created Donate) is also still well known for being one of the highest point paying projects and is probably the closest BOINC project comparable to F@H. The only reason people are having this discussion is simply the points. And since any project can add ASIC coin generating to the project, at any moment even your favorite BOINC projects could become the same a BU. That is what you really need to be concerned with when making this decision.
 
David Anderson & company sometimes respond well and sometimes just don't make it a priority. Even when they try, they sometimes flub it up horribly. Look at the Credit New system. It is garbage and was supposed to fix the point disparity between projects. Most projects toss it out after giving it a go as it only creates more problems. It is better for us as teams to shift how we look at things. I will never look at my teams stats and say a heavy GPU cruncher is doing more than my CPU's. It is certainly apples to oranges. We do talk smack to each other at times and use the BOINCwide stats because it simplifies things. However, we also compare ourselves in individual projects too. I don't know how long I was chasing top spot at WCG in my team before realizing it wasn't going to happen with the hardware I had. Even now with the FAH incident, our members have shifted and I will not attain it. But I have maintained a top 10 standing for quite a long time. I participate in over 80 DC projects. Some are not BOINC. How would one compare those? Simple, you just don't. If people want to get excited about something for a few days, that doesn't mean that is what they are all about. It is just a quick run of fun. Next day they may be just talking about who returned the most work units at Rosetta. Who on your team has put in the most run time at WCG? Points matter. Work units matter. Number of projects matter. But most of all just doing something matters. Enjoy what you do. Have fun. Stay united. That is all I can really suggest.

devlin85
If there's one this this topic has done, it's gotten an active response! isn't this just a day old? 87 replies, 733 views.. lol..

Are you by chance a Politician?
 

You know a possible solution might be...
 
We create a stickied thread called "BOINC Points, how to decode them".
 
And have one of our experienced members (If they would be so kind) to break down say the top five high number producing project and the top five lowest scoring projects. Outlining/explaining them.
 
It would include both versions (As shown by our [H] friend) of the BOINC scoring. I for one like the one that excludes mining...
 
This way folks can learn/better understand what is what. So if they want to be point chasers and not find cures or what have you, so be it. At least that might help those who do not frequent the forums have a quick way to catch up. And or for a way that others can see the points are not our goal, helping others is.
 
As we are not the team for profit or drama. We are however all about helping for the greater good. 
 
I think that might help so those who may want to go play can. And other to not fret about falling in the ranks as they help find a cure for alzheimer's. 
 
Thoughts? 

Just a thought... science isn't just about finding 'cures'.  It's finding answers.