Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 14:24:13
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Viper97
It means AB... in our panic of points being skewed and our desire to placate things that we did not think things thru. I said, there is a potential for this project to take off but I was essentially point blasted... no, that's not science it's not finding cures, it's not well you get the idea.
Yet, it seems to be happening...
It's just amusing to me. This team was built on not being point centric but it has become so.... I postulated that this is a start to something big.
It looks like I may be right.
Amusing...
As far as using different Teams or Not is still up to each Team Member. No one will force a member to change Teams for either Testing or for Mining. If my account only show .03% for our Team Effort then so be it, well I cannot even read what Today's Breakdown even shows. I ordered my 2nd Rockminers Rbox Today so I should have both running by the end of next week. I will put both Rbox's under Mining@EVGA as All my Computers that are running Bitcoin Utopia will be.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2014/11/22 14:25:38
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 14:27:52
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Remember EVGA has not sanctioned it's use. Therefore it's probably not a good idea BC. Me, I'll stick my miner on Viper@ohtheheckwithit. 
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 14:38:29
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Viper97
Remember EVGA has not sanctioned it's use. Therefore it's probably not a good idea BC. Me, I'll stick my miner on Viper@ohtheheckwithit.
But they have not said No! I will look for you under Viper@ohtheheckwithit then
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texinga
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 14:45:05
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Given that I was so far behind the 8-ball on this in the beginning, I'm finally starting to understand why people have suggested separating BOINC-mining off into some other "EVGA" team. But that should be discussed and agreed upon by the team here before anyone does anything. That way, it can be carefully considered (ala some of the concerns/experiences that Cuarc has shared with us). I'm not panicked about this thing and hope that I'm not contributing to same either. I pay no attention to BOINC stats or count upon it to measure my Crunching progress. But there are clearly those here (and I'm sure across other teams) that pay a lot of attention to those stats. So, for them it is important. Now, if someone tinkers with my WCG stats or my Snurk badge, then I'd have to "snatch them bald-headed". 
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 14:53:48
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bcavnaugh
Viper97
Remember EVGA has not sanctioned it's use. Therefore it's probably not a good idea BC. Me, I'll stick my miner on Viper@ohtheheckwithit.
But they have not said No!
I will look for you under Viper@ohtheheckwithit then
EVGA doesn't monitor the forums a lot. The mods do that for them. My team was a just a jest so it won't exist. Yet. I really don't want to found a team, as co-captain of this one it feels like treason. If I do move on it will mean that I would leave this team because I believe in something larger. Not because of points, not because of disagreement but because I think there is a better way. I haven't seen that yet but I am open to experimentation.
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 15:15:33
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Viper97
bcavnaugh
Viper97
Remember EVGA has not sanctioned it's use. Therefore it's probably not a good idea BC. Me, I'll stick my miner on Viper@ohtheheckwithit.
But they have not said No!
I will look for you under Viper@ohtheheckwithit then
EVGA doesn't monitor the forums a lot. The mods do that for them. My team was a just a jest so it won't exist. Yet. I really don't want to found a team, as co-captain of this one it feels like treason.
If I do move on it will mean that I would leave this team because I believe in something larger. Not because of points, not because of disagreement but because I think there is a better way.
I haven't seen that yet but I am open to experimentation.
Then please tell me what you want me to do? I would rather leave the Team then you, you have a very large tie into EVGA and Crunching Viper97 Crunching@EVGA. Also Viper97 you are main support element under our folding@evga Team as well.
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 15:21:26
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Stay with the team BC... this will all work out. I am a member of the DC Strike team (our name for those who both fold and crunch under the EVGA banner) and ever will be until someone tells me to drop dead. There are things that need to be worked out. We are working it out. I will not form a team but what I think we should do is play with mining (which I think will become more useful than folding/crunching with cpu/gpu in the future). We need to ride that... learn it so that we can help others). Perhaps under a different banner but all of us willing to be the experimental side of the team. I'm just a co-captain which I am proud to be. The captains need to speak and I suspect they are behind the scenes. WE are Crunching@EVGA, we are Folding@EVGA we are DC Strike Team!
post edited by Viper97 - 2014/11/22 15:30:21
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devlin85
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 15:47:54
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I think everybody needs to take a breather. If it comes down to forming a new sub-team for mining I'll transfer my team on BitcoinUtopia to there (and the points I made so far should go with it). But my personal thoughts are: that seems to be a HUGE step backwards when it should all be for the team, the same team, splitting up points and segregating projects would only lead to disaster. Are we going to start saying math isn't crunching next, only science projects are crunching.. etc.. it's a slippery slope.. This is spiraling out of control. 
"Science is much more than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. This is central to its success. Science invites us to let the facts in, even when they don’t conform to our preconceptions." -Carl Sagan  BTC Donations Welcome: 1BKiPfKw9tu9ky9WCNHrShQYvz1zBD7zMt It's Prime Time: 1800362713875*2^1290000-1 & 1832695088805*2^1290000-1
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 15:54:30
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 16:00:44
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Deep breath! This team was founded because of points to a degree. I don't care who get's what points where they put those points or who has best standings. I care for science, supporting it directly or indirectly.
post edited by Viper97 - 2014/11/22 16:01:57
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 16:05:41
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 16:12:30
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Viper97
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 16:14:11
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Interesting.. thanks. Seems Bitcoin Utopia is second to GPUGrid...
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 16:55:11
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Viper97
Interesting.. thanks. Seems Bitcoin Utopia is second to GPUGrid...
Yes and geos52 has the lead but Orange_1050 close behind his six. I hope Orange_1050 will hit top dog before years end.
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texinga
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 17:09:23
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Nothing has to be done here tonight, tomorrow or even next week. We should all remember that we are the very same people that we were since the day that we set foot into this team. That is our grounding and what we should remember first and foremost. We are not about BOINC Stats or whatever other new things crops up in the future. We are about working together to get things done...important things and this is where we have called "home". All the other stuff will come and go and some of it over time will not have been worth worrying about anyway. Control-Alt-Delete...let's reset, come up fresh, with calm and wisdom, we will figure things out. 
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bill1024
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 18:16:05
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If you go here and look at the first 20 mile stones. http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/team_summary.php?s=&t=111065 It used to take 7 days at 24/7/7 folding on a dual core cpu to get 1000 points. That was back when dual cores were new and expensive. Had to be done in Linux too, If you think Linux is bad today. haha Well, it has come a long way since then, Linux and the point inflation. To day starting out with one 4P and bigadv WUs 1,000,000 in one day is possible. Looks to be going this way in crunching now. To some points and standing is important. To others having a bunch of badges in their sig. is what they like. Others don't care, and just want to help here and there in the challenges and then do what they feel like the rest of the time. Maybe there can be a meeting in the middle. Since this new device and the large amount of points it can produce is really no different that a 4P was to folding or even the new GPUs getting 300,000 PPD It is just another tool like a CPU or a GPU in the fight. Maybe limit each team member to one of these new devices. The same model that was first brought into the picture to make it even. At 70$ I think most of use could afford to buy one. We all could chip in a few bucks to give one away to some one who really wants one but can afford it. Or as a prize in a contest. This could bring us up in the standings as other teams will fly buy as they adapt the new hardware. Some times if you can't beat them, join them. This is with the understanding the coins are going to support the science and not going into the crunchers pockets. That they can do on their own. I been reading and asking questions and trying to figure this bitcoin, curecoin and folding coin thing out. There is some controversy over if they are good or bad. I guess it is like any other thing, it can be used for good or bad. I myself am not totally sold on the whole virtual coin, but if it is being used for something good and I wont get in trouble for doing it. OK
post edited by bill1024 - 2014/11/22 18:19:16
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Punchy
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:10:04
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I agree with AB's proposals regarding setting up trials of new technologies before a decision is made for our team, and would add that a team vote might be necessary in cases where the conclusion is not obvious. I've been reading the last 2 pages of posts over and over trying to figure out some of the comments. As far as I can tell, a misinterpretation of cuarc001's post cuarc001
devlin85, If you check their forums, they are adding SETI and YoYo to the projects they support.
has led to some confusion. This does NOT mean that you can now run SETI or YoYo work units on a mining device; it just means that Bitcoin Utopia will be channeling some of their funding to those two projects. Also, it is unlikely that a mining device (built to compute SHA-256 hashes) would ever be useful for any sort of scientific calculation other than cryptography. Perhaps people are somehow equating "mining" with "ASIC" but that's not right. It is possible to build an ASIC for other types of calculations, but I think it's unlikely we will see one available to the public any time soon.
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cuarc001
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:22:45
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Punchy, I was not implying that SETI or YoYo were sending any work to be processed at BitcoinUtopia. That would not make much sense anyways since those projects would be just as capable of coming up with their own ASIC apps if that were the case. I fully meant that they indeed are now supporting both of those projects through the purpose of the project which is crowdfunding. If any were misled by this, I do apologize. I would also like to point out in case it matters to anyone that BitcoinUtopia is also commercial and not a non-profit. I had to clarify this with a few of my teams members as they kept trying to make arguments as if they were. They are open about that and is in their project description on their BOINC page.
post edited by cuarc001 - 2014/11/22 19:25:03
Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014  
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:30:51
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bill1024 I do know what you are saying as I am still newbie to all of this or that is I only have 2 years under my belt. But if were to compare what you are saying about BigAdv and Bitcoin Utopia ASIC Task it is not really the same. ASIC Task yield 1,200.000 Points and can produce over 127,900,000 Points a Day BigAdv about 300,000 a Day to 127,900,000 Points a Day for Bitcoin Utopia ASIC Task on One $80.00 Piece of Hardware. For me it is not the same. I spent around $35,000 in hardware over the last 2 years for FOLDING but due to the problems with FAH Lack of Projects to run or Poorly Developed Projects for current hardware and on old hardware an so on. I moved over to Crunching with the same hardware and guess what it all runs Great. I even went as far as buying two AND Graphics card solely to Fold On. Other issues plague BigAdv is like today the have no Core A5 Projects to run. ..The highest 24 Hr Adv is 16,647,749 by brilong at FAH The highest 24 Hr Adv 2,700,000,000 by STE\/E [BlackOpsTeam] at BOINC. ALL under Bitcoin Utopia ASIC Task.  Anyway we will get it all worked out.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2014/11/22 19:42:46
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bill1024
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:37:31
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cuarc001
I would also like to point out in case it matters to anyone that BitcoinUtopia is also commercial and not a non-profit. I had to clarify this with a few of my teams members as they kept trying to make arguments as if they were. They are open about that and is in their project description on their BOINC page.
That could make a difference, do they disclose what percent they keep and what percent gets donated? As long as it's they keep 90 and give 10. In that case better just to write a check to the foundation doing the research.
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife. CaseXX, Al Mar, Hubertus, Frank b, A\B, SchattMorgan U25ITA93JV
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:40:31
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bill1024
cuarc001
I would also like to point out in case it matters to anyone that BitcoinUtopia is also commercial and not a non-profit. I had to clarify this with a few of my teams members as they kept trying to make arguments as if they were. They are open about that and is in their project description on their BOINC page.
That could make a difference, do they disclose what percent they keep and what percent gets donated?
As long as it's they keep 90 and give 10. In that case better just to write a check to the foundation doing the research.
Well I would hope that they Give 90% and only Keep 10%. I hope someone knows this answer.
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Punchy
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:43:53
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I believe they started out taking a larger percentage but dropped it down to 10% as more people participated.
Doesn't sound too bad compared to the local sheriff's fundraiser where it was found that the telemarketers they hired were taking 80% of the donations...
Regardless, mining history shows that unless you're willing to update your mining hardware every 6-8 months, you are probably doing better to write the charity a check.
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cuarc001
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:45:31
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They have openly stated that they keep 10% and donate the rest. Front BOINC page states:
About Bitcoin Utopia
Bitcoin Utopia is a commercial platform for crowd-donations that uses Internet-connected computers to mine cryptocurrencies for incentive awards and science projects. The other purpose of mining is to secure cryptocurrency transactions against reversal. You can participate by downloading and running a free program on your computer. The fee since the late evening of 26th of October, 2014, is 10% (meaning that 90% of the cryptocurrencies will go to campaigns and 10% go to Bitcoin Utopia.) Please, also read this FAQ.
Punchy is right. They started at 15%, then 12%, and now is down to 10%.
post edited by cuarc001 - 2014/11/22 19:50:05
Gilthanis - HardForums [H] DC'er of the Month 7/13, 7/14 and [H] DC'er of the Year 2014
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bill1024
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:47:30
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Bill, if you build an Intel 4P i5-4650 (I think that is what it is) with the right WU 8104 I believe it was 995,000PPD
When I first folded WUs paid 23 -50 points and took up to a day or more to do.
I do get what you are saying that the point difference is even greater but a 300$ GPU to day, does what a 300$ CPU did in 170 weeks
My point is there is point inflation. And we could join the band wagon if we instal limits.
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife. CaseXX, Al Mar, Hubertus, Frank b, A\B, SchattMorgan U25ITA93JV
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:47:42
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cuarc001
They have openly stated that they keep 10% and donate the rest. Front BOINC page states:
About Bitcoin Utopia
Bitcoin Utopia is a commercial platform for crowd-donations that uses Internet-connected computers to mine cryptocurrencies for incentive awards and science projects. The other purpose of mining is to secure cryptocurrency transactions against reversal. You can participate by downloading and running a free program on your computer. The fee since the late evening of 26th of October, 2014, is 10% (meaning that 90% of the cryptocurrencies will go to campaigns and 10% go to Bitcoin Utopia.) Please, also read this FAQ.
Punchy is right. They started at 15%, then 12%, and now is down to 10%.
That is what I read as well. Thanks
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bill1024
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:51:02
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Oh and Bill, I think that is why we all are here crunching!!!!!! And keeping 10% is very reasonable as compared to many charities keep for expenses.
post edited by bill1024 - 2014/11/22 19:52:54
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife. CaseXX, Al Mar, Hubertus, Frank b, A\B, SchattMorgan U25ITA93JV
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 19:54:46
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bill1024
Bill, if you build an Intel 4P i5-4650 (I think that is what it is) with the right WU 8104 I believe it was 995,000PPD
When I first folded WUs paid 23 -50 points and took up to a day or more to do.
I do get what you are saying that the point difference is even greater but a 300$ GPU to day, does what a 300$ CPU did in 170 weeks
My point is there is point inflation. And we could join the band wagon if we instal limits.
Yes as a Team we can install limits by 1) not allowing Bitcoin Utopia ASIC Task or 2) not allowing Bitcoin Utopia altogether to run under our Team. But for now it looks like it make no difference at this time.
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bill1024
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 20:07:54
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Or a limit could be each cruncher can run just one under our team name; if it means that is what we have to do to keep up with all the other teams in the standings. To some the standings are important, others challenges are, others badges, others don't care either way. I myself am over people passing me in points. I have spent tens of thousands too, and have taken over 8 years to get just under 220,000,000 points were some one can start folding today with 900$ and pass me in a year. That is a point AB was making, is it fair to all the old crunchers. Nothing to stop an old cruncher from buying a 70$ hoosamajig to crunch with edit to note I haven't folded a whole lot since last Nov. I switched to mostly crunching for the same reasons most others have switched.
post edited by bill1024 - 2014/11/22 20:11:16
Life is too short to carry a cheap pocket knife. CaseXX, Al Mar, Hubertus, Frank b, A\B, SchattMorgan U25ITA93JV
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 20:08:43
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Also to note some members only Crunch Biology or Chemistry and some both but do not Crunch Umbrella project, Mathematics, Physics, Mathematics, Astrophysics, and Earth Sciences.
Some Crunch all, some a mix, and best of all you have a choice on what Project you can run and can change at Will.
But this is what Crunching is all about you can run what fits your style so to say.
This is what I think is the Best thing about BOINC over on FAH you only get what they give you, you have no choice on what Project you run.
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Re: Mining Discussion...
2014/11/22 20:12:06
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bill1024
Or a limit could be each cruncher can run just one under our team name; if it means that is what we have to do to keep up with all the other teams in the standings.
To some the standings are important, others challenges are, others badges, others don't care either way.
I myself am over people passing me in points. I have spent tens of thousands too, and have taken over 8 years to get just under 220,000,000 points were some one can start folding today with 900$ and pass me in a year.
That is a point AB was making, is it fair to all the old crunchers.
Nothing to stop an old cruncher from buying a 70$ hoosamajig to crunch with
"Nothing to stop an old cruncher from buying a 70$ hoosamajig to crunch with" With this we are being forced to Mine, I for one want this to never happen. Is this what we want forced on us, I hope to God Not. As a Team that is.
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