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AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do?

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mdk7777777
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/11 11:18:50 (permalink)
Regarding the situation and willingness for PG to respond.
 
I was allowed to post here
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26997
 
Thread was quickly locked.
 
That helps how exactly?
 
I guess you are just supposed to quit rather than ask for problems to be resolved?
 
 
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bcavnaugh
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/11 11:33:48 (permalink)
mdk7777777
Regarding the situation and willingness for PG to respond.
I was allowed to post here
https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=26997
Thread was quickly locked.
That helps how exactly?
I guess you are just supposed to quit rather than ask for problems to be resolved?
 

At least they post that it is "generally true"

While what you're saying may be generally true, it has all been said before -- repeatedly -- and we don't need another topic filled with depressing predictions.
Unfortunately, as mods/admins, we have no power to change the things you're griping about.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:54:44

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mdk7777777
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/11 13:03:39 (permalink)
Well, as I mentioned, they did allow my post without any censorship.
 
However, I don't see how locking the thread helps donors like grey_beard get their issues resolved.
 
If the admins and mods don't have any authority or ability, they should at least allow posts that bring problems to the attention of those who can affect change.
 
Anyway, just confirms my experience.
#63
Grey_Beard
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/11 14:08:04 (permalink)
The new driver may have done the trick.  Still at over 600,000 ppd.  Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?  
 
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver.  Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI.  Very interesting.
 
Edit 2:  SLI has no impact.  Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2014/11/11 18:01:19



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heikosch
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/11 23:51:51 (permalink)
Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick.  Still at over 600,000 ppd.  Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?  
 
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver.  Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI.  Very interesting.
 
Edit 2:  SLI has no impact.  Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.


Regarding folding 344.65 is not different to 344.60 and the SLI setting should do nothing for or against folding.
Probably "only" an installation issue.
 
Did you use the checkbox to "perform a clean installation"?
If your installation is really botched you might want to use a display driver uninstaller program. But beware this procedure will take some time.
 
Heiko




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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 06:58:47 (permalink)
heikosch
Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick.  Still at over 600,000 ppd.  Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?  
 
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver.  Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI.  Very interesting.
 
Edit 2:  SLI has no impact.  Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.


Regarding folding 344.65 is not different to 344.60 and the SLI setting should do nothing for or against folding.
Probably "only" an installation issue.
 
Did you use the checkbox to "perform a clean installation"?
If your installation is really botched you might want to use a display driver uninstaller program. But beware this procedure will take some time.
 
Heiko


I always do a clean install.  Just think this is a NVidia driver issue with Folding, as these cards do not generate the points they once did.  Stanford seem to be more AMD oriented lately.  Must be the demise of mining and now wanting to use those resources for Folding.  Just my conjecture.  I am now running around 400,000 ppd on three 780 Ti's.  Should be better but, who knows.  Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.



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Drazhar
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 09:29:37 (permalink)
What project?


 
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 10:15:11 (permalink)
Drazhar
What project?


Currently seeing 17's on all my GPUs right now.  All seems to be back with a vengeance.  Back up to where I should be on ppd.  Still an interesting ride.



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bcavnaugh
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 10:38:56 (permalink)
Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690
See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425
 
I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD.
Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours
Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days
Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:55:00

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Grey_Beard
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 10:52:55 (permalink)
    
bcavnaugh
Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690
See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425
 
I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD.
Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours
Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days
Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days


Here is what I am getting at this moment with 780 Ti's:
 
 
 
 
post edited by Grey_Beard - 2014/11/12 10:57:22

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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 11:00:27 (permalink)
Grey_Beard
    
bcavnaugh
Testing Driver 344.65 now on my Titan, 780, 690
See Post: http://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2250425
 
I would think that for 900 Watts and 3 GTX 690 would produce more than 7600 PPD.
Project 9201 Start at over 16 Hours
Project P13000 Start at over 10 Days
Project P13001 Start at over 10 Days


Here is what I am getting at this moment with 780 Ti's: 
  

Your PPD is that of my 2 R9 290X GPUs. And you are also running SMP.
I still think something is wrong with FAH and NVIDIA -v- AMD.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 19:55:18

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bcavnaugh
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 11:07:30 (permalink)
      
 
There was an error accessing/using the database. The Folding@home team is working to fix this issue.
So I cannot check Status.

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Grey_Beard
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 11:11:40 (permalink)
I agree something is still amiss.  This has been an interesting ride.  I have tried many different things and researched this on Folding forum, but as you said most of the issues regarding points and awarding of points are threads which are locked.  I guess they protect this like it is some kind of secret sauce.



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heikosch
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 12:20:42 (permalink)
@Grey_Beard
 
It seems that you mix up different issues:
- Geforce driver performance
- PPD values of different projects
 
Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects:
Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD .
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)
All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC).
 
With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD.
 
Heiko
 
PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)
post edited by heikosch - 2014/11/12 12:29:24




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Grey_Beard
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 12:54:23 (permalink)
heikosch
@Grey_Beard
 
It seems that you mix up different issues:
- Geforce driver performance
- PPD values of different projects
 
Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects:
Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD .
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)
All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC).
 
With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD.
 
Heiko
 
PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)


Thanks for the explanation.  This is a random kind of thing and I get what I get.  I appreciate the guidance, Heiko.



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dave851
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/12 13:15:02 (permalink)
heikosch
@Grey_Beard
 
It seems that you mix up different issues:
- Geforce driver performance
- PPD values of different projects
 
Your 3 GTX 780 Ti fold completly different projects:
Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD .
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)
All PPD values in your screenshot are in line with known performance of a GTX 780 Ti (without OC).
 
With 3 core 0x15 projects you get only 200k PPD but with 3 core 0x17 projects >600k PPD.
 
Heiko
 
PS: I hate the german autocorrection that always capitalizes english nouns. ;-)




Yea +1 on the core difference, I know I can get something like 300k pdd on my 980 with core 17 but core 15 drops me down to like 90k ppd. Its becoming more noticeable because core15's seem to be getting handed out more often nowadays, but its no where near consistent. 
 
AMD will not receive any of these core15's because they are cuda based and will not run on AMD gpu's. That being said the new core18 seems just as bad(in terms of pdd drop off) as core15 and runs on AMD, so they aren't exactly safe from these things either anymore.
post edited by dave851 - 2014/11/12 13:18:13

Heatware 


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bcavnaugh
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/15 17:22:10 (permalink)
This Weeks Testing:
 
Text Removed
 
P13001
 
 
P9201

post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:00

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heikosch2
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 01:29:18 (permalink)
@bcavnaugh
 
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
 
Heiko
 
 


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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 09:46:54 (permalink)
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko

See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
 

post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:12

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heikosch2
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 13:04:27 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko

See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
 



There are no values for the GTX 780 in your screenshot.
 
But I can see that the GTX 680 needs more than 24h to complete P13001. So the PPD value is smaller than the credit value. The mismatch in the proportions between GTX 680 and GTX 780 in the diagrams for credits and PPD confused me. Now it´s clear.
 
Heiko


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bcavnaugh
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 15:03:39 (permalink)
heikosch2
bcavnaugh
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko

See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
 

There are no values for the GTX 780 in your screenshot.
 
But I can see that the GTX 680 needs more than 24h to complete P13001. So the PPD value is smaller than the credit value. The mismatch in the proportions between GTX 680 and GTX 780 in the diagrams for credits and PPD confused me. Now it´s clear.
 
Heiko



Because what you are looking at are live stats, I am NOT Folding on my GTX 780 or 690 today.
But you can now see one of my Titans now.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:08:58

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Drazhar
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 21:30:45 (permalink)
Worth is a very subjective thing, and while I appreciate your effort in putting all the numbers together and all that, making a blanket statement like " So any card Below GTX 780 is not really worth Folding anymore" feels... eh.


 
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bcavnaugh
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Re: AMD -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/16 22:02:26 (permalink)
Drazhar
Worth is a very subjective thing, and while I appreciate your effort in putting all the numbers together and all that, making a blanket statement like " So any card Below GTX 780 is not really worth Folding anymore" feels... eh.


Well for me it is not, Cost Wise for the power needed to run them.
I will remove the Below and all the text with it.
post edited by bcavnaugh - 2015/01/02 20:09:15

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#83
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/17 17:05:35 (permalink)
Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick.  Still at over 600,000 ppd.  Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?  
 
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver.  Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI.  Very interesting.
 
Edit 2:  SLI has no impact.  Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.


The new driver worked for me at first then after 2 days my ppd dropped to zilch again. I more than tripled my previous ppd for two days in a row and then the bottom fell out. I uninstalled the Folding Client and deleted data, rolled back drivers, updated drivers and I still got squat. A WU that was down to 10 hours increased its duration to 14 hours then 18 hours on my GPU. As much as I want to contribute it isn't worth the electricity to run these projects for me. I have given up and deleted everything including a WU that needed another 18 hours to finish after only being 25% completed. 

 
 https://www.heatware.com/u/100032/to
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dave851
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/17 20:54:47 (permalink)
Zuhl3156
The new driver worked for me at first then after 2 days my ppd dropped to zilch again. I more than tripled my previous ppd for two days in a row and then the bottom fell out. I uninstalled the Folding Client and deleted data, rolled back drivers, updated drivers and I still got squat. A WU that was down to 10 hours increased its duration to 14 hours then 18 hours on my GPU. As much as I want to contribute it isn't worth the electricity to run these projects for me. I have given up and deleted everything including a WU that needed another 18 hours to finish after only being 25% completed. 



Yea for me these core15's are causing my pdd to go from ~300k down to ~90k and then I pick up another core17 and go back up to ~300k. Personally I truly do not care what the pdd is, its for a good cause. That being said it is annoying and for anyone wanting to do this competitively, it's a nightmare. Lately I have just been splitting my time between folding and boinc crunching. 

Heatware 


#85
Drazhar
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/17 23:40:54 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
 
Well for me it is not, Cost Wise for the power needed to run them.
I will remove the Below and all the text with it.




 
Now see, that I perfectly understand. It's all a measure of cost to benefit for every one of us, and when we reach that threshold it's over.
 
I'm just hoping Stanford can get things working properly again, though I don't hold out much hope.


 
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yodap
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/18 06:12:43 (permalink)
Zuhl3156
Grey_Beard
The new driver may have done the trick.  Still at over 600,000 ppd.  Anyone else seeing an increase since they started using the new driver?  
 
Edit: Just realized that I did not activate SLI, maybe SLI is the issue, not the driver.  Will leave this go and see before I go back to activate SLI.  Very interesting.
 
Edit 2:  SLI has no impact.  Put in SLI after Folding went back down to around 350,000 ppd.


The new driver worked for me at first then after 2 days my ppd dropped to zilch again. I more than tripled my previous ppd for two days in a row and then the bottom fell out. I uninstalled the Folding Client and deleted data, rolled back drivers, updated drivers and I still got squat. A WU that was down to 10 hours increased its duration to 14 hours then 18 hours on my GPU. As much as I want to contribute it isn't worth the electricity to run these projects for me. I have given up and deleted everything including a WU that needed another 18 hours to finish after only being 25% completed. 




GPU work units don't take that long on a 980 if that's what your folding with. Something wasn't right. Were you using Advanced Control or the Web Control? After you reinstalled FAH you may have been looking at a CPU wu and not realized it. That would start by default until you killed it in Advanced Control. Even if you were getting the low point core 15's, the 980 would rip right through them in a few hours.
If you could post the wu #, PPD,and TPF it would help us get to the bottom of the problem.
post edited by yodap - 2014/11/18 06:16:09


 

 
#87
Zuhl3156
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/18 06:32:54 (permalink)
yodap
 
 
GPU work units don't take that long on a 980 if that's what your folding with. Something wasn't right. Were you using Advanced Control or the Web Control? After you reinstalled FAH you may have been looking at a CPU wu and not realized it. That would start by default until you killed it in Advanced Control. Even if you were getting the low point core 15's, the 980 would rip right through them in a few hours.
If you could post the wu #, PPD,and TPF it would help us get to the bottom of the problem.


I was using Advanced Control. Normally my 980 would rip through a WU in 3 to 4 hours and give me 171k ppd with the 334.60 drivers and 382k+ with the 334.65 drivers using both CPU and GPU. I already deleted everything including the data. All I remember from the WU is the first number in the parentheses was a 0. I remember the server had a weird designation like 0xa4 or something. My CPU kills a WU in an hour or two at times and other times it's almost 4 hours but I get much lower ppd from that. What bugs me is that the GPU WU was down to under 7 hrs to complete and then increased to 10 hrs then 14 hours and finally 18+ hrs with only 25% complaetion. Nothing in my PC has changed. I reinstalled the Chipset drivers, Intel Management Engine, video drivers and anything else I could think of. I might give it a go with the latest 344.75 drivers a little later after I figure out why Far Cry 4 won't launch.  

 
 https://www.heatware.com/u/100032/to
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yodap
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/18 07:37:10 (permalink)
For sure get it running the way you want, before folding again.
The 0xa4 is definitely a CPU project. I don't run them. If you want to, make sure you run no more than 6 threads (CPU-6) or 4 is even better to give the GPU all the headroom it needs.
Quoting heikosch:
"Core 0x17 projects 9201 and 13001 have a high QRB (Quick Return Bonus), so you get high PPD.
Core 0x15 project 7624 has no bonus, so you get really low PPD (only one third!)"
And I'll add Core 0x18 projects don't play well with Maxwell 970, 980 cards. (better than core15, not as good as core17).
Some of the GPU projects fluctuate the reported tpf and ppd within the time it takes to finish. That's been happening for a while now. It's usually the average of the high/low reports.
 
I feel your pain, I've quit folding many times, lol when I couldn't justify the hardware and electrical cost vs ppd.
 
If/when you want to try again, post up some screen shots and we can get you set up optimally, and you can decide if you want to go on from there.


 

 
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yodap
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Re: ADM -v- NVIDIA Less 970/980 Cards BA Stopping Next Year, what will our BA users do? 2014/11/18 07:54:22 (permalink)
bcavnaugh
heikosch2
bcavnaugh
heikosch2
@bcavnaugh
Could you please explain your diagrams?
The proportion between credits and PPD for P13001 is incomprehensible.
Heiko

See http://weather.mfc-cs.com/haf/ Image below was taken at time of this post.
I am not comparing PPD to Credit I and comparing;
PPD to PPD between GPUs
Credits to Credits between GPUs
TFP to TFP between GPUs
Work Units to Work Units between GPUs.
 

There are no values for the GTX 780 in your screenshot.
 
But I can see that the GTX 680 needs more than 24h to complete P13001. So the PPD value is smaller than the credit value. The mismatch in the proportions between GTX 680 and GTX 780 in the diagrams for credits and PPD confused me. Now it´s clear.
 
Heiko



Because what you are looking at are live stats, I am NOT Folding on my GTX 780 or 690 today.
But you can now see one of my Titans now.


Well those 680's are starving for something. My 3 660ti's all complete those tasks in about 18 hours for about 75-80k ppd.
 
And here's a reference for a gtx 780 ftw at stock speed for a core 0x17 13000

 

Attached Image(s)



 

 
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