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RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade.

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Feren142
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2021/03/20 12:18:32 (permalink)
Long story short I sent in 2080ti for RMA and they're sending me a 3070.  I'm concerned that I'm getting a downgrade.
 
Card I originally bought.
Part Number: 11G-P4-2487-KR
Part Desc: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 11G-P4
 
Card being sent to me now.
Part Number: 08G-P5-3767-KR
Part Desc: EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 08G-P5-37
 
I see a lot of discussions about how the 3070 is better than the 2080ti, I'm not sure I agree, here are some benchmarks I've looked at.
 
(link removed) - the only thing it won here was price vs performance, which is meaningless when my money is already spent.
 
 (link removed)- Looks like it did worse here in just about every benchmark.
 
(link removed) - It looks like it did better here, but when you scroll down to the specs, you see some concerning differences such as lower memory bus, bandwidth, and the big one, 11 gigs VRAM down to 8.
 
I've spent some time reading online and some people make the argument that despite having a lower count in some areas, they're second generation components and perform better, so therefor lower is still better, but if that's really true, why does the 2080Ti outshine the 3070 on some benchmarks?  Trying to compare 2 graphics cards, especially ones with different architecture is a bit of a headache.
 
I'm not a rich man, so I was deeply concerned as soon as I saw that the replacement coming is not the same as the one I bought.  Especially considering I'm going to have to pay for shipping back to EVGA, which is expensive, as well as insurance for the 1500 dollar package, which is even more expensive.  I can't help but feel like I'm being cheated while simply trying to get a replacement for my defective card.
 
So, what does the community think?  Are my concerns justified or is there something I'm missing that should definitively reassure me that the 3070 ftw3 is not in any way a downgrade from the 2080ti ftw3?  Would be nice to hear something from EVGA too.
 
Thanks for reading my post.
 
EDIT - Given the chance, I wish there was an option to pay an additional fee but receive a 3080 instead.  While it would have been more money out of my pocket, at least I could rest assured that it's definitely no downgrade.
 
Edit #2 -   Looks like they pulled the links out of my post, so you'll have to do  your own searching to find benchmarks.
post edited by Feren142 - 2021/03/20 16:43:23
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    fatchoi
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/20 14:28:59 (permalink)
    Isn't the MSRP of the 11G-P4-2487-KR more than double the MSRP of 08G-P5-3767-KR?

    I would be upset just because of that.. 

     

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    EVGATech_WaiM
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/20 15:08:25 (permalink)

    Unfortunately we can only guarantee a card of equal performance not equal value. If you take a look at the link below , you will see that the 3070 is actually a little faster than the 2080ti on average across all resolutions.
     https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-vs-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070/intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/
     
     

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    #3
    VirtualUnreality
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/20 19:49:35 (permalink)
    Feren142
    Long story short I sent in 2080ti for RMA and they're sending me a 3070.  I'm concerned that I'm getting a downgrade.
     
    Card I originally bought.
    Part Number: 11G-P4-2487-KR
    Part Desc: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 11G-P4
     
    Card being sent to me now.
    Part Number: 08G-P5-3767-KR
    Part Desc: EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 08G-P5-37
     
    I see a lot of discussions about how the 3070 is better than the 2080ti, I'm not sure I agree, here are some benchmarks I've looked at.
     
    (link removed) - the only thing it won here was price vs performance, which is meaningless when my money is already spent.
     
     (link removed)- Looks like it did worse here in just about every benchmark.
     
    (link removed) - It looks like it did better here, but when you scroll down to the specs, you see some concerning differences such as lower memory bus, bandwidth, and the big one, 11 gigs VRAM down to 8.
     
    I've spent some time reading online and some people make the argument that despite having a lower count in some areas, they're second generation components and perform better, so therefor lower is still better, but if that's really true, why does the 2080Ti outshine the 3070 on some benchmarks?  Trying to compare 2 graphics cards, especially ones with different architecture is a bit of a headache.
     
    I'm not a rich man, so I was deeply concerned as soon as I saw that the replacement coming is not the same as the one I bought.  Especially considering I'm going to have to pay for shipping back to EVGA, which is expensive, as well as insurance for the 1500 dollar package, which is even more expensive.  I can't help but feel like I'm being cheated while simply trying to get a replacement for my defective card.
     
    So, what does the community think?  Are my concerns justified or is there something I'm missing that should definitively reassure me that the 3070 ftw3 is not in any way a downgrade from the 2080ti ftw3?  Would be nice to hear something from EVGA too.
     
    Thanks for reading my post.
     
    EDIT - Given the chance, I wish there was an option to pay an additional fee but receive a 3080 instead.  While it would have been more money out of my pocket, at least I could rest assured that it's definitely no downgrade.
     
    Edit #2 -   Looks like they pulled the links out of my post, so you'll have to do  your own searching to find benchmarks.


      I think you shouldn't focus too much on price of the old, but rather performance of the new ( As you use it--Benchmarks are a good frame of reference, but don't always tell the whole story unless it's on a clone of your system config); Isn't that why we buy a high-end gaming graphics card and why you bought the 2080ti to begin with?  It's also going to depend on your individual system components, config, and gaming preferences somewhat, but I doubt you'll be unhappy with the performance of the RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING in comparison to your old card( I own that card myself ).  Worth noting even if only equal to slightly better performance of your replacement card now ( Assuming you have a Mbd which also supports RBAR via BIOS update, which based on your old card choice you likely do ) Nvidia announced back in Feb. that late Mar. , They & Partners will be releasing VBIOS updates for RTX 30XX series with Resizeable BAR support which may give you yet further added performance--Not many games take full advantage yet, but some further titles beyond the initial 10 or so are supposed to have optimization happening concurrently to be released alongside the VBIOS upgrade.
     
      I definitely agree with you, it'd be really awesome if EVGA offered some form of pay $xxx.xx and we'll upgrade your RMA card from 3070 to 3080/90 option for those of us who'd want to; In this horrible worldwide chip shortage, 3080's are so scarce it might not have been doable even if it were an option.  Also, if you really for some reason would prefer to revert to the 2080ti FTW3 after giving the 3070 FTW3 a test drive and are ok with a cosmetic issue, I remember seeing 2 of them pop up in EVGA B-stock section over the last month or so and given the lengthy step-up queue's I think your odds are decent you could eventually find one going forward ( I think you could sell the 3070 easily if you'd want to do that ) or post in WTB forum and maybe you can work out a deal with someone.  Hope UPS is speedy getting your replacement there!


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    #4
    kougar
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/20 23:28:53 (permalink)
    It's equivalent perf in my opinion, ~5 FPS difference in a 9-game average THG ran. 
     
    fatchoi
    Isn't the MSRP of the 11G-P4-2487-KR more than double the MSRP of 08G-P5-3767-KR?

    I would be upset just because of that.. 





    That's how GPU generations always work, equivalent performance but at a lower price. 


    Have water, will cool. 
    #5
    Evil Tactician
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/22 06:58:18 (permalink)
    kougar
    It's equivalent perf in my opinion, ~5 FPS difference in a 9-game average THG ran. 
     
    fatchoi
    Isn't the MSRP of the 11G-P4-2487-KR more than double the MSRP of 08G-P5-3767-KR?

    I would be upset just because of that.. 





    That's how GPU generations always work, equivalent performance but at a lower price. 




    However, those cards aren't in the same class at all. If you paid for a $999 product and it broke, you'd be upset too if you received a $499 back as replacement. It's somewhat of a cop-out to use the generational improvements argument - this wouldn't really fly in any other consumer appliance category.
    #6
    aka_STEVE_b
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/22 07:15:37 (permalink)
    It's really hard to measure it.  the 3080 actually blows away the 2080ti , yet the 3070 does seem just a tad below the 2080ti in some, certain areas ...
     
    It's a hard call . Too bad there isn't some kind of 3070 Ti yet  

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    opticd
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/22 14:03:55 (permalink)
    I'm RMAing my 2080ti and being given another 2080ti. I wish I was getting a 3 series card instead tbh.
    #8
    XrayMan
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/22 19:07:54 (permalink)
    opticd
    I'm RMAing my 2080ti and being given another 2080ti. I wish I was getting a 3 series card instead tbh.




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    #9
    opticd
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/22 19:09:08 (permalink)
    Sure 🤷🏻‍♂️ I’m just saying that the OP should be happy. I would be. Not really sure I’d classify as a 2080TI as a RAV4 lol.
    #10
    kougar
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/23 01:18:35 (permalink)
    Evil Tactician
     
    However, those cards aren't in the same class at all. If you paid for a $999 product and it broke, you'd be upset too if you received a $499 back as replacement. It's somewhat of a cop-out to use the generational improvements argument - this wouldn't really fly in any other consumer appliance category.




    As long as the performance is equivalent and the feature set was identical or improved, then no I wouldn't. Your consumer appliance category doesn't readily work because appliances aren't graded on performance, people don't benchmark their fridges or stoves or toasters. Unless it's a durable good then the warranty is typically just a year for a consumer product. 
     
    The problem with your argument is that if I bought a 3090 for $1500 and upgraded to a 10 year warranty... and 5 years later it dies, then EVGA would have to send me another $1500 card.... and if it died again after 5 years, I'd have to be sent a third $1,500 card. That's unrealistic and also not remotely sustainable as a company. A decade from now a 3090 will be budget performance. It only took four years for a GTX 480 flagship to be equaled by a 750 Ti at less than half the power consumption.


    Have water, will cool. 
    #11
    Evil Tactician
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/03/23 02:31:32 (permalink)
    kougar
     
    As long as the performance is equivalent and the feature set was identical or improved, then no I wouldn't. Your consumer appliance category doesn't readily work because appliances aren't graded on performance, people don't benchmark their fridges or stoves or toasters. Unless it's a durable good then the warranty is typically just a year for a consumer product. 
     
    The problem with your argument is that if I bought a 3090 for $1500 and upgraded to a 10 year warranty... and 5 years later it dies, then EVGA would have to send me another $1500 card.... and if it died again after 5 years, I'd have to be sent a third $1,500 card. That's unrealistic and also not remotely sustainable as a company. A decade from now a 3090 will be budget performance. It only took four years for a GTX 480 flagship to be equaled by a 750 Ti at less than half the power consumption.



    To be fair, 10 years is rather extreme for a GPU. That said, whilst I absolutely get your point, we're talking a single generation here. The 2080 Ti isn't that old a card and it absolutely is cheap from EVGA to supply a 3070 as replacement. There are definitely instances where that card isn't actually better.
     
    In addition you'd go from 11 GB vRAM to 8 GB.
     
    Maybe a 2080 to a 3070 would certainly have merit, but a 2080 Ti to a 3070 doesn't seem fair to the user.
    #12
    mwhender
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/04/29 04:23:44 (permalink)
    I wish I would have seen this thread last night, and now I am nervous. My 2080 Ti started hanging in games, plus 2/3 instances of white block artifacts. I spoke with EVGA last night and had a really helpful representative. But, no where in our conversation did we discuss what the replacement product would be.
     
    I agree with Feren142 and Evil Tactician in that a 3070 can be considered a downgrade, or at minimum a de-value due to the MSRP difference. Especially since it seems even B stock 2080 Tis are selling at EVGA for >$1100
     
    A few questions:

    1) Does anyone think it striking that many of us need to RMA now? Is there a documented shortened life span on these cards? I know the FEs had issues early on, but my 2080 Ti card has only had problems for about 6 weeks.
     
    EVGATech_WaiM

    Unfortunately we can only guarantee a card of equal performance not equal value. If you take a look at the link below , you will see that the 3070 is actually a little faster than the 2080ti on average across all resolutions.
     https://www.gpucheck.com/compare/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-vs-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070/intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz-vs-intel-core-i7-8700k-3-70ghz/


     
    2) Since the guarantee is for performance, does anyone have any tensorflow benchmarks for the 3070?
    https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/hpc/RTX3080-TensorFlow-and-NAMD-Performance-on-Linux-Preliminary-1885/
    To be honest, I finished the ML project I was doing a couple of months ago; but, that does not mean that I wont pick up a new project and there are no benchmarks comparing the 3070 and 2080 Ti that I've been able to locate.
     
    Thank you for chiming in @ EVGATech_WaiM , but I am not sure that synthetic benchmarks are sufficient to guarantee equal performance in all applications.  I would argue that many of the software I use for editing video will have a difference. My camera only shoots in DCI 4K -- which is (4096x2160), but my wife's camera can record in 8K RAW. There will definitely be a huge difference in some of those functions needed for editing and export given the 352 bit memory bus (2080Ti) versus the 256 (3070).
     
    3) Who should I reach out to in order to determine which GPU I will be receiving? I am willing to even pay a difference or be up-charged to ensure that I will receive a product that is a real-world match or improvement for my current GPU that I spent a lot of money on.
     
    Thank you all for this thread and the information
     
    #13
    mwhender
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/05/31 05:33:24 (permalink)
    Just to update for those following:
     
    1) I paid for the cross shipping option and received a used/refurbished RTX 2080 Ti FTW card. One of the fans was stuck at 100% and could not be altered.
    2) Made some phone calls and EVGA upgraded my status to an Advanced RMA and sent me a second card. They also promised this card would undergo extensive testing to ensure it was functional.
    3) Received the second card and it crashed within 10 minutes. I got purple paired dot artifacts, and it would no longer work at the resolution supported by my monitor and threw some error codes recognized by Direct X.
    4) It's the holiday weekend right now, but I am quite upset about having two failed replacement cards plus my original failed 2080 Ti. My intent is to have another conversation with EVGA customer service to see what other options are available, because at present I have a broken $1499.99 2080 Ti that is currently in transit, plus a 1499.99 hold on a GPU that is clearly broken. $3000 worth of broken GPUs is really quite unacceptable and I hope that I can make some positive headway with a phone call.
     
    It's clearly a GPU issue because I placed my other card into the same PC and everything works just fine. This seems to be an extremely high failure rate and I hope I am an outlier.
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    kaoskilo
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/06/17 19:38:59 (permalink)
    I had the same experience, actually. Kinda late to the ball game, but I had 4 2080tis that artifacted on me (Original 2080ti black, 2 replacement black editions, and a XC Ultra), one of the black editions sparked up and died. My card is out for RMA now, but I looked at my RMA history and saw that I'm now getting a 3070 ftw3 ultra. I still don't know how I feel about it, but honestly, I just want a card that works at this point. I'm just thankful that the warranty and customer service is as great as it is.
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    mwhender
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/06/18 04:07:14 (permalink)
     
    @ kaoskilo -About how long did it take to fully resolve your RMA process? I'm also glad that overall, you are pleased with the experience. I'm still reserving judgement until the process is fully completed.
     
    The amount of failing 2080 Tis seems grossly under-reported. I'm not sure if it is because we have (sort of) moved on to a new generation of GPUs and it has fallen to lower place in search algorithms, or if it is simply not worth the effort for accurate reporting. I definitely don't trust the 2080 Ti anymore.
     
     
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    kaoskilo
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/06/18 08:38:32 (permalink)
    @mwhender - It's been about 2-3 weeks an RMA, as I've been opting for the Standard RMA. I should be receiving my replacement card nest Wednesday, on the 23rd.
     
    I agree. I've searched and crawled a lot of forums, and though there are a few posts here and there, they're mostly from when the card released. I'm with you in thinking that the 2080ti is hard to trust - it's even given me a sort of PTSD where I'm almost expecting my card to die. Currently running a back up Zotac Amp 2080 in my rig, with no issues.
     
    My issue with the replacement card is I'm not just a gamer. I do a lot of motion graphics and video editing for work, hence the 2080ti, and now I'm going from 11gigs/352-bit to 8gigs/256-bit. Again though, after 4 RMAs I just want something that works- and if the 3070 works and doesn't die on me, then 8gigs/256-bit is superior to 11gigs/352-bit.
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    mwhender
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    Re: RMA'd 2080ti ftw3 and concerned replacement is a downgrade. 2021/06/21 10:59:14 (permalink)
    Well, it has been about 7 weeks for me, but EVGA has just offered to send me an RTX 3070 FTW as a replacement card. Unfortunately, they weren't willing to offer any other options between that or making my way through more potential 2080Tis.
     
    While I am not fully happy with the outcome, for the same reasons the OP and kaoskilo have posted regarding memory bus, I will say that I know EVGA was at least willing to open conversations rather than simply treat me as "just another problem."
     
    Thanks for the thread all.
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