ataraxey
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For some reason whenever i play normal games where i never notice any performance issues, nor my GPU temperature ever getting high at all i get MASSIVE high tone capacitor whine or low tone sometimes. This has been really awful in the Crysis 2 beta right from startup, and at first i thought i was my clocks so i lowered everything back to stock and it still is loud as hell. What is up with this? :(
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metal_god69
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 16:40:52
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Don't think there is much you can about that. RMA would be your only option if EVGA deems it as an approved reason.
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rafale
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 16:56:23
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Before going after the card, can you make sure it is not your Power Supply? The load coming from these cards vary a lot and make a lot of power supply whine.
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 17:21:47
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@rafale I dont think it's my PSU, it's an Antec Trupower 750 and should be fine. I actually checked as well and its definitely coming from the GPU... @metal god i really hope i dont need to do that. Would suck massive dongs to have to drain my entire loop, buy more coolant and then reassemble everything =/
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metal_god69
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 17:24:24
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ataraxey @metal god i really hope i dont need to do that. Would suck massive dongs to have to drain my entire loop, buy more coolant and then reassemble everything =/ The joys of water cooling eh
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 17:27:51
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metal_god69 ataraxey @metal god i really hope i dont need to do that. Would suck massive dongs to have to drain my entire loop, buy more coolant and then reassemble everything =/ The joys of water cooling eh no :(
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zephur
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 17:35:18
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Something you can do to be sure. Unplug all your case fans, and take a toilet paper / paper towel tube. Hold it to your ear, and put the other end at your video card. Then do the same for your power supply. This will help you determine which piece of hardware is whining. I know I used to have a power supply that whined, but I was almost certain it was the video card until I did this.
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Ashimon
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 17:50:11
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☄ Helpful
What you are hearing are the inductors inside your graphics card or power supply's power regulation circuit. Many people incorrectly diagnose electronics noise, and capacitors do not have any moving parts nor can they induce an EM field necessary to cause motion and, ultimately, audible noise. The copper coils are what you're hearing. That said - it very well could be your power supply power regulation inductors making noise, or the GPU inductors reacting to the power supply. This comes from the nature of the power supply changing Alternating Current (AC) to Direct Current (DC). Unfortunately, sometimes PSU power output can be 'dirty' while still being within factory specifications. That is to say that your PSUs output is causing those inductors to oscillate. These oscillations will cause noises ranging from whining to buzzing. It isn't an indication of failing equipment. It is an indication of inappropriate power conditioning.
post edited by Ashimon - 2011/03/02 17:52:32
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quadlatte
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 18:02:56
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Ashimon What you are hearing are the inductors inside your graphics card or power supply's power regulation circuit. Many people incorrectly diagnose electronics noise, and capacitors do not have any moving parts nor can they induce an EM field necessary to cause motion and, ultimately, audible noise. The copper coils are what you're hearing. That said - it very well could be your power supply power regulation inductors making noise, or the GPU inductors reacting to the power supply. This comes from the nature of the power supply changing Alternating Current (AC) to Direct Current (DC). Unfortunately, sometimes PSU power output can be 'dirty' while still being within factory specifications. That is to say that your PSUs output is causing those inductors to oscillate. These oscillations will cause noises ranging from whining to buzzing. It isn't an indication of failing equipment. It is an indication of inappropriate power conditioning. +1. the only way to find the real problem is to try the card with a different PSU. just because it's a name brand PSU does not mean you don't have bad inductor or two.
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gutcheck
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 18:31:02
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Ashimon
What you are hearing are the inductors inside your graphics card or power supply's power regulation circuit. Many people incorrectly diagnose electronics noise, and capacitors do not have any moving parts nor can they induce an EM field necessary to cause motion and, ultimately, audible noise. The copper coils are what you're hearing.
That said - it very well could be your power supply power regulation inductors making noise, or the GPU inductors reacting to the power supply. This comes from the nature of the power supply changing Alternating Current (AC) to Direct Current (DC). Unfortunately, sometimes PSU power output can be 'dirty' while still being within factory specifications. That is to say that your PSUs output is causing those inductors to oscillate. These oscillations will cause noises ranging from whining to buzzing. It isn't an indication of failing equipment. It is an indication of inappropriate power conditioning.
+2 and BR worthy. First time I put a block on a card and heard that it scared the f outta me.
3900X 4.5 GHZ on an Asus Hero 32 GB 3600 MHZ Corsair RGB Pro DDR4 RAM 1 EVGA 3090 XC3 soon to be Watercooled 2 2GB Corsair MP600's HX1000 with custom sleaving
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Happychubbs
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 20:10:07
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I too have a capacitor whine coming from my GTX-580 (Stock). I tested the card with two different power supplies, HX1000 (current system) and TX750. The video card squealed while connected to both. I was just wondering where are the capacitors/coils that produce the noise. I have a picture attached for what I believe they are.
Attached Image(s)
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 20:40:50
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@Ashimon Interesting, really interesting and thank you for the information. I bought this PSU from my good friend who used it in his recent build for the past year, i built it with him as it was both of our first WC builds and he had dual 470's at the time. During his time using it he never had any whine or noise of any kind, and as im actually moving down to one card rather than two i wouldnt think it would be an issue with the PSU =/ That said, im going to try the cardboard tube method and see if i can isolate it further. That all said - Should i be worried of it happening? It's clearly audible to me when sitting 3-4 feet away, and goes from a low tone when looking at settings in the Crysis 2 beta to a high constant whine during loading/server select/etc but usually cuts out and is silent during actual gameplay
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maniacvvv
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 21:02:48
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If he was running dual watercooled 470's with that 750watt he gave you.... Then its been overstressed/abused and you need to replace it right now... be glad you got a warning Buy a new powersupply as soon as possible before your failing PSU damages your other equipment... Consider yourself lucky you were given the chance
post edited by maniacvvv - 2011/03/02 21:09:58
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 21:26:44
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@maniacvvv He didnt have 2 watercool'd ones, just 1 and then later 2 normal EVGA ones...As far as power draw is concerned it seems to have fallen well within the limit as far as id know when we did the build we calculated it and it came out around 550w
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maniacvvv
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 21:38:03
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I ran 2 470's (see my MODS RIGS) My TX850 could run them at stock, but I had to upgrade my PSU to overclock them properly... Just because something "works" does not mean your not stressing it... Simple test, pull the card out and go over to your friends house, remove all his cards and stick yours in it... Either that or swap PSU's with him. --> if it does not make noise, your next stop should be the store for a new PSU Dual 470's can eat 300w+ EACH when overclocked I have no idea where you came up with 550w for an entire system and 2 470's Thats just completly incorrect I fail to understand why you would buy a $700 videocard, then use a "used" powersupply. You could certainly have a defective card, but much more likely is that the powersupply your using is failing and you are risking both your build -and- your videocard.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2011/03/02 21:52:47
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Ashimon
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 21:51:25
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☄ Helpful
The phenomenon of the inductor oscillation can vary between parts. it takes a special combination of factors to induce audible inductor oscillation. The values of the capacitors and inductors vs. the load presented to them, and the 'cleanliness' of the power being supplied. The power that eventually gets to your CPU and GPU goes through several 'conditioning' stages. Your PSUs job is simply to convert AC to DC current as efficiently as possible (less heat). There are parameters that have been set as 'acceptable' output current pertaining to amperage, voltage, EMI, temperature, humidity, altitude, thermal shock, etc. etc. These are parameters - and every PSU sold will meet these parameters with unique values. We all know that the graphics cards, CPUs, RAM, and other components differ in ways that allow for wide variations in overclockability. In that same vein, PSUs share a similar unpredictability. The way a particular PSU will interact with the components in your system will vary. In the case of the noisy inductors, the culprit can be found in the way the rectifier output is conditioned (filtered). Inappropriate power conditioning is causing the coils on your GPU, Mobo, or PSU to oscillate. It can be any single one, a combination, or all three. Why does this happen? It really boils down to cost. This cost can be found in four main areas that manufacturers do their able best to minimize, while maximizing reliability, efficiency, and profit. 1) Compatibility research. There are so many combinations of parts that it becomes impractical to test the interactions between them all. Most PSU manufacturers I assume design a power supply to the specifications laid out by the form factor of their target market. This means that while their product performs to compatibility standards, it might not perform as well in your particular system as a competing product. 2) Design. This is a big one. Most of the issues described by noisy power supplies could be solved with better filtering. However this impacts the performance in three very significant ways: 1) It increases cost, 2) It can lower efficiency, and 3) It introduces additional points of failure. So manufacturers meet these challenges as well as they can. With power demands of individual machines going stratoshperic, these challenges put ever more pressure on the design and, perhaps inevitably, some designs will fall short of consumers' expectations. 3) Parts. The transformers, capacitors, resistors, inductors, diodes, transistors, and even the solder that make up today's electronics are mass produced on scales we cannot even fathom. I mean, it's one thing to sit back and read about Apple selling 6 million iPads. It's another to consider what 6 million even looks like. What mass production means is minimizing variance. Take two capacitors off the same production line and you will get two different values. These parts are tested and binned according to their performance and values. In the same way eVGA cherry picks the very best GPUs to go on their SSC-line of cards, so do the parts supply manufacturers. Tolerances drive costs; the tighter the tolerance, the higher the cost. So you've got a balancing act between creating the perfect product and cost. While this might seem elementary, it's absolutely crucial to the issue we're discussing. When building the PSU, a manufacturer simply pulls parts out of a bin that fall within a certain range of values (tolerance). While the final product is tested for tolerance and conformity, the product description tells us nothing about how much EMI that particular PSU emits, or how well the AC is filtered. How could it? It is a symptom of mass production which provides the best possible product at the best possible price (I'm assuming blind business morality here). 4) Competition. Take all the challenges presented already and throw competition into the mix. Not only are there concerns about market pliability (can I effectively sell this high-end, quadruple-filtered, super-silent, highly-efficient 1000W PSU when my competitor is selling a single-filtered, not-so-efficient 1000W PSU for half the cost?), there is pressure to provide power for an ever-hungrier consumer in a very limited amount of space and cost. Competition is a good thing for everyone involved. However, in a price-driven market competition can drive impractical, unsustainable, even unsafe design. Each company does its best to survive in an unpredictable market. But I am certain we can all relate to the notion that we’d like as much of a good thing for as little cost to ourselves as possible. I hope no one’s fallen asleep. Class dismissed.
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:02:13
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maniacvvv I ran 2 470's (see my MODS RIGS) My TX850 could run them at stock, but I had to upgrade my PSU to overclock them properly... Just because something "works" does not mean your not stressing it... Simple test, pull the card out and go over to your friends house, remove all his cards and stick yours in it... Either that or swap PSU's with him. --> if it does not make noise, your next stop should be the store for a new PSU Dual 470's can eat 300w+ EACH when overclocked I have no idea where you came up with 550w for an entire system and 2 470's Thats just completly incorrect I fail to understand why you would buy a $700 videocard, then use a "used" powersupply. You could certainly have a defective card, but much more likely is that the powersupply your using is failing and you are risking both your build -and- your videocard. The reason im hesitant to do that is that i can't just "pull it out and go stick it in my friends rig" It's within my entire WC loop, meaning to take it out i need to drain everything, dissasemble and then buy new coolant/reassemble/leak check/settle/work out the air bubbles. He doesnt even have a WC build anymore, opting for a smaller mini LAN build so it's not like i could stick it into his machine anyways and try to test performance...
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maniacvvv
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:07:23
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Swap PSU's with him or someone else? seems like its that or RMA time on the videocard.. -or- buy a new PSU and rule that out 100% (would be my personal choice) I hear you bro, sorry your having problems.
post edited by maniacvvv - 2011/03/02 22:11:14
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Afterburner
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:08:21
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AB Was Here...
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Ashimon
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:11:33
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maniacvvv
I ran 2 470's (see my MODS RIGS) My TX850 could run them at stock, but I had to upgrade my PSU to overclock them properly... Just because something "works" does not mean your not stressing it...
Simple test, pull the card out and go over to your friends house, remove all his cards and stick yours in it... Either that or swap PSU's with him. --> if it does not make noise, your next stop should be the store for a new PSU
Dual 470's can eat 300w+ EACH when overclocked
I have no idea where you came up with 550w for an entire system and 2 470's Thats just completly incorrect
I fail to understand why you would buy a $700 videocard, then use a "used" powersupply.
You could certainly have a defective card, but much more likely is that the powersupply your using is failing and you are risking both your build -and- your videocard.
In Red: This cannot be overstated. Operating at performance limits should not be a de facto state. To OP: In fact, you could be costing yourself unnecessary electricity just by pushing your PSU that much. The closer you operate to performance limits of pretty much any design, the less efficient it becomes. A general rule of engineering is to maintain a 60-70% operation to maximize efficiency. This means if your system will draw 500 watts from the power supply while in use, you should be using a PSU rated for about 800W. This ensures the PSU operates at it's most efficient (temperature plays a big role here) and can readily maintain its output for an indefinite amount of time. The closer to performance limit you use that 550W PSU, the less efficient it becomes - thereby drawing more power from the grid and costing you more in your electric bill. You also run the risk of partial or total failure of the power supply, in which case you can actually damage other components including, but not limited to, well, pretty much everything hooked up to that PSU. Generally speaking, though, failure of a power supply will result in damage to the component that draws the most power. In almost every case these days, that means your graphics card(s).
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ataraxey
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:16:51
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maniacvvv Swap PSU's with him or someone else? seems like its that or RMA time on the videocard.. -or- buy a new PSU and rule that out 100% (would be my personal choice) I hear you bro, sorry your having problems. UGHHHH. I guess i'll go to Fry's when im home for Spring Break from Uni and grab one of their PSU's, see if the same problem persists, and if it does RMA the card. Otherwise i'll return the PSU and buy another one off newegg. pretty awful problem on a $700 card =/ ps, sorry about my earlier language. frustration can do terrible things!
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maniacvvv
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:23:27
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Got my fingers crossed for you its just the PSU... Goodluck and please post back what happens so others can see how your issue was resloved.
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HeavyHemi
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:26:25
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Ashimon The phenomenon of the inductor oscillation can vary between parts. it takes a special combination of factors to induce audible inductor oscillation. The values of the capacitors and inductors vs. the load presented to them, and the 'cleanliness' of the power being supplied. The power that eventually gets to your CPU and GPU goes through several 'conditioning' stages. Your PSUs job is simply to convert AC to DC current as efficiently as possible (less heat). There are parameters that have been set as 'acceptable' output current pertaining to amperage, voltage, EMI, temperature, humidity, altitude, thermal shock, etc. etc. These are parameters - and every PSU sold will meet these parameters with unique values. We all know that the graphics cards, CPUs, RAM, and other components differ in ways that allow for wide variations in overclockability. In that same vein, PSUs share a similar unpredictability. The way a particular PSU will interact with the components in your system will vary. In the case of the noisy inductors, the culprit can be found in the way the rectifier output is conditioned (filtered). Inappropriate power conditioning is causing the coils on your GPU, Mobo, or PSU to oscillate. It can be any single one, a combination, or all three. Why does this happen? It really boils down to cost. This cost can be found in four main areas that manufacturers do their able best to minimize, while maximizing reliability, efficiency, and profit. 1) Compatibility research. There are so many combinations of parts that it becomes impractical to test the interactions between them all. Most PSU manufacturers I assume design a power supply to the specifications laid out by the form factor of their target market. This means that while their product performs to compatibility standards, it might not perform as well in your particular system as a competing product. 2) Design. This is a big one. Most of the issues described by noisy power supplies could be solved with better filtering. However this impacts the performance in three very significant ways: 1) It increases cost, 2) It can lower efficiency, and 3) It introduces additional points of failure. So manufacturers meet these challenges as well as they can. With power demands of individual machines going stratoshperic, these challenges put ever more pressure on the design and, perhaps inevitably, some designs will fall short of consumers' expectations. 3) Parts. The transformers, capacitors, resistors, inductors, diodes, transistors, and even the solder that make up today's electronics are mass produced on scales we cannot even fathom. I mean, it's one thing to sit back and read about Apple selling 6 million iPads. It's another to consider what 6 million even looks like. What mass production means is minimizing variance. Take two capacitors off the same production line and you will get two different values. These parts are tested and binned according to their performance and values. In the same way eVGA cherry picks the very best GPUs to go on their SSC-line of cards, so do the parts supply manufacturers. Tolerances drive costs; the tighter the tolerance, the higher the cost. So you've got a balancing act between creating the perfect product and cost. While this might seem elementary, it's absolutely crucial to the issue we're discussing. When building the PSU, a manufacturer simply pulls parts out of a bin that fall within a certain range of values (tolerance). While the final product is tested for tolerance and conformity, the product description tells us nothing about how much EMI that particular PSU emits, or how well the AC is filtered. How could it? It is a symptom of mass production which provides the best possible product at the best possible price (I'm assuming blind business morality here). 4) Competition. Take all the challenges presented already and throw competition into the mix. Not only are there concerns about market pliability (can I effectively sell this high-end, quadruple-filtered, super-silent, highly-efficient 1000W PSU when my competitor is selling a single-filtered, not-so-efficient 1000W PSU for half the cost?), there is pressure to provide power for an ever-hungrier consumer in a very limited amount of space and cost. Competition is a good thing for everyone involved. However, in a price-driven market competition can drive impractical, unsustainable, even unsafe design. Each company does its best to survive in an unpredictable market. But I am certain we can all relate to the notion that we’d like as much of a good thing for as little cost to ourselves as possible. I hope no one’s fallen asleep. Class dismissed. Or it could be just as simple as the GPU PWM section oscillating under load which is the most common cause on GPU's. I have one GTX 285 that will squeal under load regardless of which top end Corsair PSU (3) I use it with. While there are exceptions, the typical case is simply the GPU. The 'Cliff's notes' version.
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Afterburner
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:32:09
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Ashimon
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:32:55
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ataraxey UGHHHH. I guess i'll go to Fry's when im home for Spring Break from Uni and grab one of their PSU's, see if the same problem persists, and if it does RMA the card. Otherwise i'll return the PSU and buy another one off newegg.
pretty awful problem on a $700 card =/
ps, sorry about my earlier language. frustration can do terrible things!
When I built my current system I started it up and installed 3DMark Vantage. As soon as the bench started up I heard this awful buzzing. WHAT is THAT? I wondered. I swore up and down that since the noise was coming from the card, it was an issue with the card. I did some more investigating and dug out my Physics 221 book. I learned others had this issue and they pretty much just lived with it. Since my parts were all new, I decided to return the PSU on advice from a fellow enthusiast. I changed brands but kept the power rating the same. Low and behold, the noise disappeared. Not to say your card isn't defective. But when troubleshooting a problem I believe it helps to understand the interaction between components to arrive at the best solution, not just any solution.
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Ashimon
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HeavyHemi
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Re:LOUD capacitor whine from stock GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2?
2011/03/02 22:36:59
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