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Hot!Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme?

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Grey_Beard
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2022/01/21 11:12:07 (permalink)
Since our Crypto section has been closed, this may be the best place for this.  If it is not, mods, please move it.

We have had many discussions here about crypto, its impacts, it’s value and the many opinions we all have.  As this evolves, it is getting clearer that it may not be the “Everyman” utopia that it was originally set out to be.  Yes, I have been a critic of this, as I have been vocal about this concept for many years.  Just read this article - https://jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cryptocurrency-scam-blockchain-bitcoin-economy-decentralization - and it sums up the things I have been saying about this concept for a long time, but it also goes a bit further than I have.  The last two paragraphs of the opinion sums it up well for me:
  • “The 2008 financial crisis made clear why the financial sector must be brought under public control. Cryptocurrency and “decentralized finance” aren’t special — they’re just more of the same privatization and deregulation masquerading as high-tech “solutions” we’ve seen in other industries. Unregulated, privatized financial markets pose the same risks to the public whether or not they are “on the blockchain.””
  • “In the case of cryptocurrency, regulation is an existential risk precisely because regulatory loopholes and fraud are the only reason the industry appears profitable despite being wholly unproductive and a waste of energy resources. The same applies to private cryptocurrencies as a whole. The longer governments take to ban them, the worse normal people will be hurt.”
If regulation is an existential threat to this concept, then the concept itself is a threat because if it cannot survive the regulatory, then it cannot survive.  Please help us understand how it protects the “Everyman?”

The ramifications of this are all around us, our environment, foundry capacity, the supply chain, scalping, bots, inflation, and now the news about crypto-type concepts working into games for loot and other things.  Is this good?  If it was good for the “Everyman,” would so many be using this to increase corporate profits?  I have never said blockchain is bad, as it has many applications and is yet to be leveraged to its fullest, but it is being stigmatized by the entire crypto concept and the way theft, bad actors, as well as those who support it, and the general operations within a crypto environment are playing out.  NFTs anyone?  If you cannot secure it, I know I will get push back on this, is it really a currency?  Do we not already have digital currency in the way we all use credit cards?
 
When we then look forward to the metaverse or whatever this misguided concept is (even taking out Fadbook and Zuckerberg), it seems that these moves to the digital world are rife with potential problems.  We already have Walmart and RLP selling digital items in this arena.  Great, now we have to compete with the Jones on what our avatars wear.  Do we need groceries and home furnishings in this place?  What for?  There seems to be a steady path to exploit the consumerism we have grown into the main unit of our economy.   I’ll stop here to then let the discussions roll.



#1

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    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 11:43:09 (permalink)
    Here a dive into El Salvador from Fortune - https://fortune.com/2022/01/19/el-salvador-bitcoin-economy-distressed-debt/
     
    This is not the relief many of these countries that are moving to a crypto-based economy think it will be.  I feel bad for the economic hardships that await people who are already very poor and live in a country where the fiat currency has been mismanaged terribly.



    #2
    aka_STEVE_b
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 11:47:27 (permalink)
    Of course it is - I had an epic thread on it before they dumped the forums & reconfigured them all.
     I wish I could still access that one... but yeah, it's worse than the Wolf of WallStreet 
     
    https://www.cbsnews.com/n...cy-wealth-one-percent/

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    #3
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 12:02:18 (permalink)
    I was trying to find that one to post this in, but I could not so I started this new one.



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    yaymz
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 13:17:36 (permalink)
    It's hard to put faith in literal digits in space that aren't necessarily tied to anything tangible.  And there are other reasons as well, but it is just a matter of time before the bigger crypto's get hacked and confidence in all these cryptos comes down. 
     
    Crypto dot com just had a $30mm hack yesterday where they were able to bypass 2FA security.  Just a matter of time before all the cards come down.   
    #5
    transdogmifier
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 13:33:52 (permalink)
    yaymz
    It's hard to put faith in literal digits in space that aren't necessarily tied to anything tangible.  And there are other reasons as well, but it is just a matter of time before the bigger crypto's get hacked and confidence in all these cryptos comes down. 
     
    Crypto dot com just had a $30mm hack yesterday where they were able to bypass 2FA security.  Just a matter of time before all the cards come down.   




    I agree.....Crypto seems like a scam to me....but then again, our paper currency with nothin' to back it up seems that way too....to me....
     
     

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    Chaos_21
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/21 14:49:21 (permalink)
    Not quite, but Crypto does enable more than it's share of illegal activity.
    Pon·zi scheme
    noun
    a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

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    rblaes_99
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/25 05:38:24 (permalink)
    Chaos_21
     
    Pon·zi scheme
    noun
    a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.




    isn't that pretty much exactly how the crypto "profits" have worked out?  Its not an investment.  its also valueless until is is exchanged back for real fiat $.  Every dollar someone "made" in crypto is a dollar someone later to the table lost.
     
    that's a Ponzi.  


    #8
    Brad_Hawthorne
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/25 06:26:10 (permalink)
    Not sure what I would call it, but I believe that it's a case of certain people did not like the accountability of fiat money and wanted to circumvent regular checks and balances for many reasons, some of those reasons vary from money laundering to outright misdirection and the ability to manipulate the controls surrounding the crypto-currency. All that spells bad news for those less informed and caught up in buzz words and the romance of finding a way to make it rich through non-traditional means. NFTs are even worse in that people are being scammed into the belief on their value because crypto bros buy their own NFTs to give them false value then turn around and sell them to those ignorant of how the value was set. So they keep their original coin plus get the coin from the people who buy it off them.
     
    There is no inherent value in crypto or NFTs. It's the emperor's new clothes propped up by infectious group think. You get echo chambers like Reddit and Twitter to white knight perpetuate it. There needn't be any true marketing for it when people are so emotionally invested in it, it becomes their religion of the moment. People look for meaning and will grasp onto about anything to give them that meaning. Cults are not usually logical. Crypto and NFTs are a variation of cult worship.
     
    Telling people that won't get them away from crypto, because those that have bought into are not rational about it. They are lead by emotion. When incited by emotion, the only way to change them is to counter that with further incitement. In this case, people are appealing to your emotion by saying that crypto is bad for the environment. It's all just really rich people using viral marketing to shape your perception on how you should spend your available money on their consumer products. Be that product crypto or something physical. As long as they make you feel good about doing it, their job is done. It's all just a big shell game to grab their share of the world's wealth that is spent on consumables. It pity those that have bought into the idea of virtual goods. It is the height of insanity when people willingly buy something that has no physical tangible existence.
    post edited by Brad_Hawthorne - 2022/01/25 06:48:00
    #9
    donta1979
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/25 14:04:02 (permalink)
    I think it is to an extent. It's really a scary genius idea. Get free labor/power/computational power/ of pc owners from the desperate/people wanting to get rich quick. Have all of these people make a digital currency for you, prices inflated by magic to get more onboard. Drop the hammer cause crashes, buy the digital currency off the desperate once you have had them produce enough. Things will go all digital it is only a matter of time, the powers that be want it that way.  It is easy to manipulate financial institutions just have to get world governments and their banks to block it, then the crashes happen to the panic selling begins. Then the criminal activity it can bring and has been doing from people's fortunes stolen, wiped out to the Ponzi schemes.

    I refuse to get involved in it, just my opinion on what I think it is, so far it is playing out like I said it would so do not think I am too far off. At the end of it the ones behind it will have bought it all and the new digital money will commence. I would much rather have cash, anything electronic has an id and can be seen where it is going once it's in the market. Cash takes a lot more effort to track. I do not like companies to even the government to know what I spend my money on. Why if I am not doing anything wrong? Ummm Privacy? It's none of their business period.  I do like physical assets more so than cash. Printed funny money, to even crunched funny money crypto in a big collapse is worth nothing. Physical assets are.
    post edited by donta1979 - 2022/01/25 14:06:39

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    #10
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/28 11:31:25 (permalink)
    I use cash much more than credit cards. I find it funny when I give cash to pay for something. The first reaction is disbelief. The person taking the payment is like, “Whoa, what is this?” Then they have no idea how to give out change. They fumble with trying to get it together to give to me. If they happen to forget to put the amount I gave them into the register correctly, they cannot even get the right amount to give me. Subtraction is a lost art. Then if I give them an amount where I want a specific kind of change back, it’s a separate circus. Say I give them a $50 bill and a $5 bill to pay for a $35 item, they usually try to give me the $5 bill back, like it was a mistake I gave it to them.

    We already have a digital currency, it’s VISA, Mastercard, American Express, Discover, etc. like it or not, that is reality.
    post edited by Grey_Beard - 2022/01/28 11:35:59



    #11
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/28 11:33:53 (permalink)
    Here is another gem relating to this subject.

    “Investors are shaken after the co-founder of a multi-billion dollar cryptocurrency protocol was accused of being a serial scammer with a record of conviction and deportation, and the co-founder of a fraudulent Canadian exchange that imploded.”

    “Patryn, who changed his legal name twice, was the co-founder of QuadrigaCX, a Canadian exchange that shut down after Patryn's partner Gerald Cotten suddenly died in India in 2018 while owing users around $190 million in crypto at the time’s exchange rate. Patryn and Cotten reportedly parted ways in 2016. Later, investigators determined that Cotten was operating QuadrigaCX as a Ponzi scheme near the end of its life.”

    https://www.vice.com/en/a...dster-investors-shaken

    There have been an amazing amount of articles about the perils of crypto lately. I have also noticed that there are not many defending this stuff as there has been in the past.
    post edited by Grey_Beard - 2022/01/28 11:40:11



    #12
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/28 11:46:55 (permalink)
    transdogmifier
    yaymz
    It's hard to put faith in literal digits in space that aren't necessarily tied to anything tangible.  And there are other reasons as well, but it is just a matter of time before the bigger crypto's get hacked and confidence in all these cryptos comes down. 
     
    Crypto dot com just had a $30mm hack yesterday where they were able to bypass 2FA security.  Just a matter of time before all the cards come down.   




    I agree.....Crypto seems like a scam to me....but then again, our paper currency with nothin' to back it up seems that way too....to me....
     
     


    The difference is that the United States economy supports the dollar. I understand that inflation and supply devalue it, but you can take it to a bank or some other place and get something for it. Can you do that with crypto? In some places, but I would expect those to dry up as soon as the price devalues a bit more as anyone who produces or sells good do not want their products proceeds to devalue to 25%. The dollar might do, what 2-3%, but inflation is more of the increased value of goods and services not really the devaluation of the dollar based on supply or manipulation.
    post edited by Grey_Beard - 2022/01/28 11:50:37



    #13
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/01/28 21:11:44 (permalink)
    Today there was another hack that stole $80 million in crypto.

    https://www.theverge.com/...qubit-binance-ethereum



    #14
    Grey_Beard
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/02/05 12:59:36 (permalink)
    Looks another major hack this week. $320 million stolen. This stuff looks worse than a junk bond.

    https://apple.news/ARBGDes9gSd-nMVdbcKivNQ



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    yaymz
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/11/09 15:16:28 (permalink)
    Crypto has been raked over the coals over the last 48 hours.   Bitcoin down about 25% in that time period.   Crypto exchange FTX looks like they may be headed towards bankruptcy.   
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-09/ftx-investors-told-that-without-more-capital-bankruptcy-likely?srnd=premium
     
    Rumor/speculation on the internet is that FTX may have been playing around with money they shouldn't have been.  Could land some people in hot water, but we'll have to see what happens.
     
    All this leads back to the OP's question of is Crypto a Ponzi scheme, and all signs seems to suggest yes (IMHO).
     
     
     
    #16
    Nereus
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/11/14 13:54:48 (permalink)
     
    Yep, this thread was somewhat prescient. Bitcoin down to about US$16k now. 
     
    Where does it go from here though? Massive regulation to make it more secure, or collapse into obscurity?
     

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/11/14 21:33:50 (permalink)
    Nereus
     
    Yep, this thread was somewhat prescient. Bitcoin down to about US$16k now. 
     
    Where does it go from here though? Massive regulation to make it more secure, or collapse into obscurity?
     


    Not sure if massive regulations would help it. Part of the problem is fear of an economic slowdown but really not sure if that is really happening. Not only do people fear Crypto crashing but it also has the problem of an exchange collapsing.

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    bill1024
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/11/16 09:30:46 (permalink)
    Answer to OPs question is yes.

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    seth89
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/11/29 18:09:45 (permalink)
    Central banking, the fed, all of it is fake.
     
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    XrayMan
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/01 22:45:27 (permalink)
    bill1024
    Answer to OPs question is yes.



    +1

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    #21
    Nozler
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/01 23:42:40 (permalink)
    All that glitters is not Gold true that. Finer than Diamonds or Gold are the treasures of the heart. Store them where they will not rust. 
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    redteamgo
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/06 14:33:02 (permalink)
    all fiat is a confidence game but not necessarily a ponzi.  basically yes

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    Hoggle
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/06 20:23:29 (permalink)
    XrayMan
    bill1024
    Answer to OPs question is yes.



    +1


    A lot of it has to do with the people running crypto exchanges. People into crypto don’t want the regulations that banks have but it does make it easy to lose everything in crypto when an exchange is poorly managed. Not only can crypto crash but some of the people will not get a single penny for what they lost at FTX.

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    #24
    GTXJackBauer
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/07 04:53:01 (permalink)
    Hoggle
    XrayMan
    bill1024
    Answer to OPs question is yes.



    +1


    A lot of it has to do with the people running crypto exchanges. People into crypto don’t want the regulations that banks have but it does make it easy to lose everything in crypto when an exchange is poorly managed. Not only can crypto crash but some of the people will not get a single penny for what they lost at FTX.



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    #25
    ty_ger07
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/07 05:03:55 (permalink)
    Every address is a wallet. The problem is doing something with the money in that wallet without it at some point interacting with an exchange. Exchange wallets are the exact same as any other wallet, except for who knows the key.
    #26
    z3r0t0l0rence
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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/16 17:37:25 (permalink)
    I can't talk crypto anymore. It leads to politics and I'm so far done with politics as its all corrupt. That is all I got to say on the topic.

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    Re: Is Cryptocurrency a Ponzi Scheme? 2022/12/16 17:37:25 (permalink)
    I can't talk crypto anymore. It leads to politics and I'm so far done with politics as its all corrupt. That is all I got to say on the topic.

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