GTXJackBauer
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Currently, Intel's best silicon manufacturing process available to desktop users is their 14 nm node, specifically the 14 nm+++ variant, which features several enhancements so it can achieve a higher frequencies and allow for faster gate switching. Compare that to AMD's best, a Ryzen 3000 series processor based on Zen 2 architecture, which is built on TSMC's 7 nm node, and you would think AMD is in clear advantage there. Well, it only sort of is. German hardware overclocker and hacker, der8auer, has decided to see how one production level silicon compares to another, and he put it to the test. He decided to use Intel's Core i9-10900K processor and compare it to AMD's Ryzen 9 3950X under a scanning electron microscope (SEM).
First, der8auer took both chips and detached them from their packages; then he proceeded to grind them as much as possible so SEM could do its job of imaging the chips sans the substrate and protective barrier. This was followed by securing the chips to a sample holder using an electrically conductive adhesive to improve penetration of the high energy electrons from the SEM electron gun. To get as fair a comparison as possible, he used the L2 cache component of both processors as they are usually the best representatives of a node. This happens because the logic portion of the chip differs according to architecture; hence, level two cache is used to get a fair comparison - it's design is much more standardized. The results? Well, the Intel 14 nm chip features transistors with a gate width of 24 nm, while the AMD/TSMC 7 nm one has a gate width of 22 nm (gate height is also rather similar). While these are not much different, TSMC's node is still much denser compared to Intel's - TSMC's 7 nm produces chips with a transistor density around 90 MT/mm² (million transistors per square millimeter), which is comparable in density to Intel's 10 nm node used on recent mobile processors. Below you can see the SEM images and comparison made. For more information and details please head over to the source.
Another interesting thing to note here, the gate width is not following the naming scheme as you might have expected. The 14 nm transistor isn't 14 nm in width, and the 7 nm transistor isn't 7 nm wide. The naming of the node and actual size of the node have had a departure a long time ago, and the naming convention is really up to the manufacturer - it's become more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. This is the reason researchers have already proposed another density metric for semiconductor technology other than pure "nm" terms.
Source Great article that exposes the marketing malarkey from all sides.
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ty_ger07
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/23 07:40:55
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I don't know they didn't link to the original source. I watched it 2 days ago. This part is especially interesting: http://www.youtube.com/wa...QUXpZpLXI&t=13m53sSeems like the naming went to hell in 1997, and once the trickery started, it was impossible to reverse course and release a new, smaller node with an accurately measured bigger number than the previous misleading number.
post edited by ty_ger07 - 2020/09/23 07:48:43
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MasterMiner
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/23 17:40:28
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China’s SMIC has been marketing a similar gate architecture as a competitor to 7nm. Far too complicated for me, but it seems transistor density isn’t the final (final) word on performance. https://www.techpowerup.c...ng-live-by-q4-2020?amp
post edited by MasterMiner - 2020/09/23 17:44:39
I used to mine. Now I compute.
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veganfanatic
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/23 18:17:53
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I use an AMD CPU and I have been happy with it. My video card on the other hand is a much more complicated chuck of silicon. My CPU has 32MB L3 which is more than Intel gives at the same price point. L3 is helpful for gaming as it allows thread management to be comparatively efficient.
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atfrico
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/23 23:06:29
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veganfanatic I use an AMD CPU and I have been happy with it. My video card on the other hand is a much more complicated chuck of silicon. My CPU has 32MB L3 which is more than Intel gives at the same price point. L3 is helpful for gaming as it allows thread management to be comparatively efficient.
Someone did the research 😎👍 unlike others🙄 Im happy you are a happy with your purchase fellow gamer😼
T hose who abuse power, are nothing but scumbags! The challenge of power is how to use it and not abuse it. The abuse of power that seems to create the most unhappiness is when a person uses personal power to get ahead without regards to the welfare of others, people are obsessed with it. You can take a nice person and turn them into a slob, into an insane being, craving power, destroying anything that stands in their way. Affiliate Code: 3T15O1S07G
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kram36
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/24 03:27:28
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veganfanatic I use an AMD CPU and I have been happy with it. My video card on the other hand is a much more complicated chuck of silicon. My CPU has 32MB L3 which is more than Intel gives at the same price point. L3 is helpful for gaming as it allows thread management to be comparatively efficient.
Yes, more L3 cache will help with gaming. Now imagine how much further AMD would be behind Intel in gaming performance if AMD didn't pull tricks like this. By no means am I saying the Ryzen 3000 series processors are bad, I tossed AMD a bone a built a 3600XT system and it runs perfectly fine. Doesn't clock near as well as my Intel 10940X and the AMD chips seems to run hotter, can't really tell for sure because no software that I have found reads the temp of each core on the AMD chip like Intel chips do, it's just the CPU package temp is higher. My nephew built a 3800X (bought it for the extra L3 cache over the 3700) system and he has the same issue with no per core temp readings and running hotter at the same clock speed as the Intel CPU he replaced.
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Miguell
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/24 03:32:47
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very very VERY interesting... the trickery is strong.... very interesting indeed
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loyalty4life
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/24 20:51:30
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kram36
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/25 00:31:10
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loyalty4life Intel is so sad.
The fastest and best gaming processors are sad? Intel's prices could be better, but as for performance, they are not sad, they are the best. Step into the HEDT world and AMD's prices could be better. Thought about building a ThreadRipper system, but AMD's prices are too high for my taste as the lowest priced 3rd Gen ThreadRipper is $1,500. I built my X299 system with a i9-10940X processor, 3 x Intel SSDPEKKW512G8XT NVMe drives, 2 x Samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB NVMe drive and 2 x ASUS Hyper M.2 V2 cards for less then the cost of the lowest priced 3rd Gen ThreadRipper processor alone.
post edited by kram36 - 2020/09/25 00:35:19
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vegajf51
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/25 00:40:18
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kram36
loyalty4life Intel is so sad.
The fastest and best gaming processors are sad? Intel's prices could be better, but as for performance, they are not sad, they are the best.
Very correct. Intel CPU's are easily the best for gaming.... today. Intel won't be able to say that in 2 months though........
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Yesterdays_news
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/25 16:23:14
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Intel's days at the top are numbered, I hope they get their act together soon
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kram36
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/25 16:38:11
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Yesterdays_news Intel's days at the top are numbered, I hope they get their act together soon
If AMD passes Intel in gaming performance, it won't be he first time. The only issue could be AMD starts pricing their processors higher, like they have with the 3rd Gen ThreadRipper.
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vegajf51
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Re: Intel 14 nm Node Compared to TSMC's 7 nm
2020/09/25 18:27:38
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kram36
Yesterdays_news Intel's days at the top are numbered, I hope they get their act together soon
If AMD passes Intel in gaming performance, it won't be he first time. The only issue could be AMD starts pricing their processors higher, like they have with the 3rd Gen ThreadRipper.
AMD definitely will..... AMD is not our friend, they are just competition. We need Intel to step it up.
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