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Hot!Hash Rate Identification

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Kritikill
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2021/06/14 10:01:57 (permalink)
How are the newer models being identified as Low Hash Rate (LHR), and the older models with HHR?

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    Red_Infern013
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/14 11:04:10 (permalink)
    Do you mean how to differentiate the two? All rtx 3070 ti and 3080 ti cards are LHR. The 3060 is supposed to be LHR so most likely the new models won't have anything identifying them (someone reported an evga rtx 3060 that has the new LHR limiter but exactly identical to older version of the same model). The 3060 ti 3070 and 3080 some say they'll have a sticker and some say they won't, but some retailers in europe are including LHR in the cards names now on their websites. Oh and 3090 and founders editions (except 3070 ti and 3080 ti) won't be limited according to nvidia.

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    #2
    Kritikill
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/14 11:24:57 (permalink)
    Thanks, I guess at some point there was going to be a cut in for all new manufactured cards across the series. So the 3090 I have would not have the LHR  Limiter,
     

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    #3
    Red_Infern013
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/14 11:32:31 (permalink)
    I'm not sure if all newly manufactured cards are gonna be LHR or they gonna produce those alongside the regular ones. But my guess the non-LHR versions are being rolled out. Especially since it seems the limiter is sort of a software one and nvidia technically could undo it if they wanted in the future (no idea if they would though since they say they're coming out with new mining specific cards).

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    #4
    nN117
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/15 16:50:07 (permalink)
    I heard about new cards will be LHR. They need some kind of way to sell mining versions of videocards.
     
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    Red_Infern013
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/16 00:03:53 (permalink)
    nN117
    I heard about new cards will be LHR. They need some kind of way to sell mining versions of videocards.
     

    They're selling their mining cards (CMP) alright, just directly to big farms. The one or two cards they put on sale on amazon are just for show so nvidia can claim "Hey see we're good guys, we put LHR on gaming cards and we sell miner cards that have crappy performance and cost 3x the already scalped price of a similar gaming card that definitely miners gonna buy cause the mining card absolutely doesn't make sense".. sigh
     
    I really wish intel's new GPUs are even moderately decent, having only two companies in the world making gpus is bad... duh I guess.

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    #6
    KingEngineRevUp
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/16 04:27:39 (permalink)
    It's supposed to end with a -KL of it is mining limited.
    #7
    atom7ktm
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/16 05:52:06 (permalink)
    All new cards being sold nowadays (including the 3060) are LHR and need the latest driver from nVidia (466.77) in order to work. That's the "new" limiter nVidia invented this time...
    #8
    Xaxus
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/23 22:28:02 (permalink)
    Source for this? The KL statement that is.
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    KingEngineRevUp
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/23 22:34:42 (permalink)
    If the model ends in -KR then it's not a LHR card.

    E-mail EVGA, they'll say the same.
    #10
    EVGATech_DanielM
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/23 22:36:31 (permalink)
    Xaxus
    Source for this? The KL statement that is.

    Am source - can confirm. 

     
     
    -Daniel_EVGA
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    Xaxus
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/23 22:54:30 (permalink)
    Then is there an exception for the 3080TI? I have one coming in tomorrow that is a KR model but I was under the impression all 3080TIs are LHR.
    #12
    KingEngineRevUp
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/23 22:55:48 (permalink)
    Xaxus
    Then is there an exception for the 3080TI? I have one coming in tomorrow that is a KR model but I was under the impression all 3080TIs are LHR.


    Because they never had a change in board design so they get to start with and stay -KR

    -KL is just for all the cards like the 3070 and 3080 becoming LHR
    #13
    lexiesue22
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/06/24 15:33:56 (permalink)
    good info.
     



    #14
    Hollanda
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/16 13:43:55 (permalink)
    EVGATech_DanielM
    Xaxus
    Source for this? The KL statement that is.

    Am source - can confirm. 


    Hi Daniel,  I am not sure this is true for the 3060 series of video cards.  I am one of your product sellers and I buy through the large distribution chain in a normal way.  I am being told by my customers that some of the 3060 do mine at 38-45 and others down at 25.  They tell me that the difference is the firmware in the cards where the higher hash rate cards firmware ends in a number 45 while the LHR card come with a firmware that end in 63 or 65..Something like that.  Can you confirm this for us?  I have a stock of cards but no way of telling which might be LHR or not.  I suspect EVGA would have a production list which would show older serial numbers being the HHR and newer serial numbers the LHR ones.  Do you know what point where they changed?  My customers are telling me the new cards will not let them use the nvidia drivers where the old ones will.
    Thanks in advance.  Alex

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    #15
    jrvangundy65
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/16 20:32:07 (permalink)
    good info, I'm trying to get a card right now and not pay the scalpers.
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    rottentreats
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/16 20:43:11 (permalink)
    KR = Regular
    KL = Limited
     
    K stands for something that starts with K.

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    Hollanda
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/17 16:27:17 (permalink)
    As a seller I want to make sure my customers get what they want and this question comes up for different brands of cards.  As we are only talking about EVGA, I understand and agree that the K and L works as a system for the 3070 and 3080.  However I have never seen a 3060 that ends in L...only K and I suspect because in theory it was made as a LHR card when it got designated as a K card, that it stays a K card unless something changes in the production build phase. 
     
    I use to be a production manager at an electronic design and manufacture company so I am use to production systems.  If you make a new card, that has different parts or builds, you make a new part number and that is where the L is coming in for the 3070 and 3080's.  However the 3060 might be undergoing a smaller change in only firmware and that does not normally mean a part number change.  You always program your parts with the newest firmware as you update or change it.  The actual parts on the board, resistors, diodes etc may not have changed on the 3060, so no new part number. 
     
    If I am right, they only change from older and newer 3060 is the firmware in them, so you will not see a 3060 ending in an L.  That does not mean it was not limited in it's mining through the firmware.  I am sure some folks will learn how to change the firmware in the future.  It would not be hard if you know what you are doing, but most people will not have the tools or ability to make the change depending on how they are trying to lock it in place.  They may figure that out tomorrow or a year from now.
     
    The question is whether there is such a thing as a 3060 that ends in an L...I have not seen one, and whether the hashing is limited through the firmware or other software means.  I do not think you can use the K and L letter as a system to figure out the 3060's
    post edited by Hollanda - 2021/07/17 16:30:25

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    #18
    zaikk
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/17 16:37:27 (permalink)
    Hollanda
    As a seller I want to make sure my customers get what they want and this question comes up for different brands of cards.  As we are only talking about EVGA, I understand and agree that the K and L works as a system for the 3070 and 3080.  However I have never seen a 3060 that ends in L...only K and I suspect because in theory it was made as a LHR card when it got designated as a K card, that it stays a K card unless something changes in the production build phase. 
     
    I use to be a production manager at an electronic design and manufacture company so I am use to production systems.  If you make a new card, that has different parts or builds, you make a new part number and that is where the L is coming in for the 3070 and 3080's.  However the 3060 might be undergoing a smaller change in only firmware and that does not normally mean a part number change.  You always program your parts with the newest firmware as you update or change it.  The actual parts on the board, resistors, diodes etc may not have changed on the 3060, so no new part number. 
     
    If I am right, they only change from older and newer 3060 is the firmware in them, so you will not see a 3060 ending in an L.  That does not mean it was not limited in it's mining through the firmware.  I am sure some folks will learn how to change the firmware in the future.  It would not be hard if you know what you are doing, but most people will not have the tools or ability to make the change depending on how they are trying to lock it in place.  They may figure that out tomorrow or a year from now.
     
    The question is whether there is such a thing as a 3060 that ends in an L...I have not seen one, and whether the hashing is limited through the firmware or other software means.  I do not think you can use the K and L letter as a system to figure out the 3060's




    I guess eventually all cards that gets manufactured, except for the 3090 will be LHR cards.

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    #19
    Elie123
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 03:37:09 (permalink)
    I Purchased EVGA 3060 model end in KR and it is LHR with PCI device ID 2504 that cannot be Bypassed and do not support Driver 470.05 not even on sign that it is LHR!!!!
    #20
    JulienA1
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 03:50:47 (permalink)
    How do I know if my card is LHR or not ? 
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    #21
    dryja123
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 05:46:49 (permalink)
    JulienA1
    How do I know if my card is LHR or not ? 
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    Your model number tells you which version of the card you have.  You said you have the 10G-P5-3897-KR.  If you had the 10G-P5-3897-KL you would have the LHR card.  So KR is regular and KL is LHR.  This is also stated in the product specs as well.  
    #22
    JulienA1
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 06:31:24 (permalink)
    dryja123
    JulienA1
    How do I know if my card is LHR or not ? 
    RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra Gaming  EVGA228 REV 0.1
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    Your model number tells you which version of the card you have.  You said you have the 10G-P5-3897-KR.  If you had the 10G-P5-3897-KL you would have the LHR card.  So KR is regular and KL is LHR.  This is also stated in the product specs as well.  


     Yes, but 
    Elie123
    I Purchased EVGA 3060 model end in KR and it is LHR with PCI device ID 2504 that cannot be Bypassed and do not support Driver 470.05 not even on sign that it is LHR!!!!




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    #23
    Hollanda
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 11:28:24 (permalink)
    You will find that EVGA decided that they built the 3060 as an LHR card and no physical components changed so there was no need to change the part numbers.  That said they do not make a KL card but only the KR part number.  Yes, you would be right that it is impossible to tell the LHR cards from the HHR cards.  As a past production manager I know EVGA must have a production list, tied to the serial number at the point where they changed from HHR cards to LHR cards because there was a firmware change which is a form of a change and normally you record the serial number changes where it stopped having the older firmware changed to the newer firmware.
     
    From what I know the 3060 that have firmware that ends in the numbers 45 are the older HHR cards.  The newer LHR cards end in a 63 or 65 or something like that.  I have a stock of these cards to sell, as I am a normal vendor, and I have customers who want me to open the boxes to check which firmware they have.  Of course I will not do this because once a card is opened I have to discount it 20-40% as a used card because any buyer does not know if it has been used or not.  So far all of the ones I have sold are HHR cards but without the serial number change over point (which EVGA could lookup) I cannot guarantee if the cars are LHR or HHR.
     
    My problem is worse because now I have customers who want to buy the card or cards and open them and return the ones they do not want for an instant loss to me.  This hurts me as much as you because here in Canada there is a law that you have to provide the ability of a customer to return any purchase so there is no way for me to avoid people buying these cards, opening them all and then I lose $100--$200 per card on returns.  It's brutal as a dealer.  I have told my customer, ahead of time, that they cannot return these cards once they are opened unless there is an obvious factory warranty but it is so easy for them to slice a trace or knock off a resister that I cannot see and then claim them as warranty that I have to give out.  I do not even want to sell the 3060 cards because of this problem and as I have no real legal way around stopping miners from buying and opening the boxes and forcing me to take they back if they want a return.  I can tell them I will not do it, but I have no leg to stand on legally.
     
    If the EVGA reps see this can you please contact me and give me the serial number where you changed from HHR to LHR cards and I will not post it but leave that to you to do on the forums.  As a dealer I need to maintain a good standing with EVGA, so I will follow this rule but by now I do not see why you will not provide it for everyone.

    EVGA Dealer, Calgary Canada.  Corporate or custom sales.
    #24
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/07/30 14:49:06 (permalink)
    Elie123
    I Purchased EVGA 3060 model end in KR and it is LHR with PCI device ID 2504 that cannot be Bypassed and do not support Driver 470.05 not even on sign that it is LHR!!!!

    ALL, let me say that again, ALL RTX 3060s were manufactured with the intent that they would be hash rate limited. There are a total of 0 RTX 3060s that were manufactured and advertised as non-LHR cards.
     
    For some reason people think that because there was a way to defeat the LHR features on the earlier produced cards that somehow they are entitled to know which are defeatable and which are (currently) not defeatable.
     
    EVGA part numbers for cards that were LHR from launch (3060, 3070 Ti, 3080 Ti) will not necessarily have the -KL and will likely have the -KR at the end of the part number.
     
    If you want the manufacturers help in figuring out which cards can bypass the intended LHR "feature" I think you'll end up disappointed. They have zero interest in making this information public. 
    #25
    Hollanda
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/08/03 10:09:30 (permalink)
    To the best of my knowledge, and as a miner and vendor, I have never seen an EVGA 3060 KL series.  I am somewhat sure that they never made a 3060 that ends in a KL in the part number.  That said I do think early EVGA hashed higher then current cards.  There is no way of telling from the outside of the box which type you have.  Only opening the box and reading the firmware version will give you a shot and a vendor would have to be pretty bad to let you go through all their evga 3060, opening and then returning the ones you did not want.  I keep getting this question over and over again.  There is just no way of knowing what you will get and EVGA has been silent on when they made any changes.

    EVGA Dealer, Calgary Canada.  Corporate or custom sales.
    #26
    critofur
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/08/16 13:59:14 (permalink)
    [Regarding the 3060 12GB LHR v1 vs v2 cards:]
    When a customer buys something, they are entitled to such information before making the purchase.  It would not be fair to blame the customer for returning a product which did not meet their needs, when the seller was unable/unwilling to answer that simple question before the sale due to a simple and easy to provide piece of that information being intentionally withheld by the manufacturer?  This is simply unacceptable and unethical behavior.
     
    Buying a LHR V2 card when I want an LHR V1 card is harmful to me, as the customer.  Withholding information in order to allow the sale of a product to a customer which does not meet their needs is unethical.  This would basically be tricking the customer into buying the product which was not the one they intended to purchase.
    post edited by critofur - 2021/08/16 14:01:30
    #27
    Flint 1760
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/08/16 15:42:15 (permalink)
    critofur
    Buying a LHR V2 card when I want an LHR V1 card is harmful to me, as the customer.  Withholding information in order to allow the sale of a product to a customer which does not meet their needs is unethical.  This would basically be tricking the customer into buying the product which was not the one they intended to purchase.



    Considering you are purchasing a GPU to display images on your monitor, hash rate is not a part, nor a requirement of that equation, nor is it listed in the specifications.  This would be the same as complaining that the 3090 specs don't tell you how well it works as a framing hammer.


    #28
    jaredbyoung
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/08/16 15:49:05 (permalink)
    critofur
    [Regarding the 3060 12GB LHR v1 vs v2 cards:]
    When a customer buys something, they are entitled to such information before making the purchase.  It would not be fair to blame the customer for returning a product which did not meet their needs, when the seller was unable/unwilling to answer that simple question before the sale due to a simple and easy to provide piece of that information being intentionally withheld by the manufacturer?  This is simply unacceptable and unethical behavior.
     
    Buying a LHR V2 card when I want an LHR V1 card is harmful to me, as the customer.  Withholding information in order to allow the sale of a product to a customer which does not meet their needs is unethical.  This would basically be tricking the customer into buying the product which was not the one they intended to purchase.


    Do they also need to disclose to you if they used LED lights from manufacturer X vs manufacturer Y when both do what they claim it will do?
     
    3060 cards are LHR cards. So you buy them knowing that they are LHR cards.
     
    And big hint, if you're buying a new 3060 card today, it is V2. If you're buying new 2nd hand the manufacturer doesn't owe you anything as far as V1 vs V2 info. If you're buying used then you'll have to work that out with the seller.  
    #29
    kraade
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    Re: Hash Rate Identification 2021/08/16 15:54:06 (permalink)
    rottentreats
    KR = Regular
    KL = Limited
     
    K stands for something that starts with K.


    K=Krypto
    lol


    #30
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