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GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues

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Goobers
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/03 22:03:38 (permalink)
shafat
I thought the reason I had 16gb ram is so that I dont need to use pf.

This was only useful many years ago, when programs used memory in the MB, not GB range.
 
The problem is... nobody really bothered to correct all the folks stuck on this idea.
 
Windows 7 started to change how often Windows would swap out data in RAM to pf. Windows 8 was more aggressive and Win10, even more so.
 
Can you still do it? Yes you can... if you want to install something like 64 GB of RAM or more just to avoide pf swapping while playing GTAV, you can. And yes, you'll need that much... I've had pagefile usage go as high as 28 GB (I had it manually set to 32 GB) with something like 14-16 GB of RAM usage (32 GB RAM) while playing some of my games. I say 64 and not 48, because 48 is a bit of a mishmash of RAM stick sizes and its usually better to keep them as matching as possible, hence 64 (4x16 or 8x8).
SilentMarket
shafat
Also, doesnt pf slow you down?

Yes, it causes stutter.

As Sajin said, it's only if you're forced to constantly swap in/out. If the game (and core windows) can fit in physical ram, having a pf is fine (rather, recommended), as it's doing its job of holding all other background/"unimportant" data. If the game spills over into the pf, that's another story.
 
For quite a long time, many people have been saying 8 GB is "enough" for gaming, and in recent months (or year), they've been finding out that has changed also. 16 GB is becoming the new "minimum."
 
If the game manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you disable the pf, then you're gonna be even more unhappy.
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KarmNelis
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/03 23:45:57 (permalink)
Goobers
 For quite a long time, many people have been saying 8 GB is "enough" for gaming, and in recent months (or year), they've been finding out that has changed also. 16 GB is becoming the new "minimum."
 

 
16GB is still fine with several coming years because most people won't play games while opening 100+ tabs of Chrome or set up many virtual machines.
 
Goobers
If the game manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you disable the pf, then you're gonna be even more unhappy.
 

 
Game program has its own self memory stored in physical ram. The max won't be over 10Gb( at least I haven't seen one game program exceed such values. So the game itself won't use up all physical memory, every time the "run out of memory" error comes from virtual committed memory maxed out (why? It's because GPUs are using virtual memory too) and not the physical ram maxed out. If you check these values you'll find still a lot of physical memory left but can't be used. That's why pagefile is so important, it can potentially double size your ram usage with performance decrease of course. The designers of Windows are smart about pagefile.
 
But once set up with SLI with double sized vram the system just need
a lot of virtual committed memory and the best way is to increase the pagefile as much as you want because GPU vram won't directly go into the physical memory, the vram has the tendency of going into virtual memory. 
Only virtual memory acts as the vessel of ram and pagefile. If no pagefile, then virtual memory directly applied to physical ram.
 
So the way you said "game manages to use up all physical RAM, while you disable the pf" scenario won't happen that way. It can only happen after you disable pagefile, the game (self memory with GPU vram) uses all physical ram. If you enable small pagefile, then the game's own memory goes into physical ram, GPU vram maybe goes into physical ram or pagefile, as soon as pagefile used up, there will be an error, but the physical memory still left a lot not used.
post edited by SilentMarket - 2017/08/03 23:58:34

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#32
Goobers
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 00:11:04 (permalink)
What is the difference between:
 
What I said: "If the game manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you disable the pf"
 
And what you said: "It can only happen after you disable pagefile, the game (self memory with GPU vram) uses all physical ram."
 
Last I checked... those two meant the same thing. Yet it can't happen the way I described it, but only the way you described it ... huh?
 
SilentMarket
Goobers
 For quite a long time, many people have been saying 8 GB is "enough" for gaming, and in recent months (or year), they've been finding out that has changed also. 16 GB is becoming the new "minimum."
 

 
16GB is still fine with several coming years because most people won't play games while opening 100+ tabs of Chrome or set up many virtual machines.



Why does it sound like you're trying to disagree with me... when I didn't say "16 GB isn't enough" in the first place?
#33
KarmNelis
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 03:30:36 (permalink)
Goobers
What is the difference between:
 
What I said: "If the game manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you disable the pf"
 
And what you said: "It can only happen after you disable pagefile, the game (self memory with GPU vram) uses all physical ram."


Because the "If" logic the way you described will be like"the game can still manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you enable the pf"

But instead it's "the game can't manages to use up all physical RAM and needs more, while you enable the pf"

The way I said " It can only happen after you disable pagefile, the game (self memory with GPU vram) uses all physical ram." still applies to "It won't happen after you enable pagefile, the game (self memory with GPU vram) uses all physical ram."

Goobers
16 GB is becoming the new "minimum."


"minimum" doesn't sound like "enough", indicating 16GB needs to be increased to be enough.

But I disagree the new "minimum" and said 16GB will be enough when you don't run many background programs.

Besides we're discussing the problem that is happening for SLI and 4K situations. But the problem is not common among average issues. It's not suitable to applied 16GB to the new "minimum" as a common statement.

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#34
shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 12:54:45 (permalink)
So I have been meaning to replace my cpu, mobo and ram and get some new stuff. What would be an ideal purchase at this time? I am interested in threadripper but I have never went amd before. Intel is just too expensive atm. So if were to aspire to get 59xxx score in 3dmark with my sli 1080ti , what should i get?

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#35
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 12:57:28 (permalink)
shafat
So I have been meaning to replace my cpu, mobo and ram and get some new stuff. What would be an ideal purchase at this time? I am interested in threadripper but I have never went amd before. Intel is just too expensive atm. So if were to aspire to get 59xxx score in 3dmark with my sli 1080ti , what should i get?


7700k.
post edited by Sajin - 2017/08/04 13:02:59
#36
shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 19:25:58 (permalink)
You know I was actually leaning towards that but then I realized that I ve had a quad core since 2006 (q6600) and I think its time I upgrade to a HEDT x299 or Threadripper platform.

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#37
Sajin
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 19:32:01 (permalink)
shafat
You know I was actually leaning towards that but then I realized that I ve had a quad core since 2006 (q6600) and I think its time I upgrade to a HEDT x299 or Threadripper platform.


Guess you'll want to buy a 7820x then as ryzen isn't going to get you there.
 
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12991364 (fastest 1080 ti sli with a ryzen cpu)
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shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 19:47:00 (permalink)
Yes sir. You got that right.
 
Btw all topics aside, you think my 4820k at 4.5 ghz can really hold back my sli 1080ti that bad? I m not reaching 120fps in games, neither my cpu or my gpus are reaching 100% usage. So what gives? I understand my cpu is from 2011, but i didnt think I wont have this type of issue. Also, do you think its a SLI issue? I know scaling is awful this days but I thought I would get roughly 60-70% increase in gameplay performance and fps. I am gonna reinstall my windows 10 this weekend and hopefully that will solve my fps issues for now.......

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#39
Sajin
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 20:09:33 (permalink)
shafat
Yes sir. You got that right.
 
Btw all topics aside, you think my 4820k at 4.5 ghz can really hold back my sli 1080ti that bad? I m not reaching 120fps in games, neither my cpu or my gpus are reaching 100% usage. So what gives? I understand my cpu is from 2011, but i didnt think I wont have this type of issue. Also, do you think its a SLI issue? I know scaling is awful this days but I thought I would get roughly 60-70% increase in gameplay performance and fps. I am gonna reinstall my windows 10 this weekend and hopefully that will solve my fps issues for now.......


Based off your cpu (single core) cinebench score I don't think your cpu should be having a problem. Maybe just a windows config issue. Might be a driver issue too. See if driver 382.53 does any better for you.
#40
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/04 20:23:08 (permalink)
Sajin
Your graphics score isn't right. Your two 1080 ti's should be scoring 59,xxx or 60,xxx @ 2 GHz. Do you have a link to your score?




My firestrike doesn't even hit 25k on the normal.. dont think it'll be hiting 59k any time soon. Think hes having a windows issue. I hit 100+ in BF4 @ 1440p with 200% Resolution scaling.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/21405878




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KarmNelis
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/05 02:35:52 (permalink)
A 16 lane CPU is not qualified to fully utilize 1080Ti SLI at 1080P Firestrike, at least for now, even with a PLX switch. 
Go for a 40 lane CPU is the best solution.
But since the development of GPU advanced further than current CPU development, I doubt that a 6950X or 7900X can fully utilize 1080Ti SLI in lower resolution. 
Note that playing a game at 144 fps is still not adequate at 4K, but can be adequate at 2K or 1080P. The game needs more FPS on 1080P or 2K, best to get a 40 lane CPU like a 7900X. The game played only at 4K, a 7700K or 7820X would be enough.
 

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#42
shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/05 08:45:47 (permalink)
I hear ya silentmarket, but the problem is any intel cpu with 40+ lances are way overpriced. I was leaning towards threadripper but if they dont utilize my 1080tis to the max then I ll stick to intel. 7820x is what I am leaning towards.

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#43
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/05 09:45:12 (permalink)
For the cost, and at higher than 1080P resolutions, an 8+ core Ryzen (or Threadripper) would be a GREAT bang for the buck investment. Overall, it looks like Skylake-X is having issues even keeping up with Broadwell-E, at least for the 6900K to 7820X game comparisons that I've seen - and Ryzen is just about as good as Skylake-E when paired with fast RAM. Those tests were with a single 1080 Ti. 1080 Ti SLI definitely favors a 7700K over the Ryzen 8 core chips - https://youtu.be/jqEnwwHC5n4
 
Since I already had X99, I just went out and got a cheap 6950X that will tide me over for a good bit. Especially since I was able to OC all 10C/20T at 4.4GHz. If I still was on my old X79, well I'd probably have gotten Threadripper if Ryzen's performance is improved upon - benchmark NDA needs to lift!
 
To be frank, the best investment that anyone can make in a computer today, besides an SSD, is a Gsync monitor for GeForce cards or a Freesync monitor for AMD cards. Then all you need is >30FPS and to lock the max FPS slightly below the max refresh rate for a buttery smooth experience.
post edited by arestavo - 2017/08/05 10:08:47
#44
CriticalHit_NL
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/05 15:46:50 (permalink)
shafat
Btw all topics aside, you think my 4820k at 4.5 ghz can really hold back my sli 1080ti that bad? I m not reaching 120fps in games, neither my cpu or my gpus are reaching 100% usage. So what gives? I understand my cpu is from 2011, but i didnt think I wont have this type of issue. Also, do you think its a SLI issue? I know scaling is awful this days but I thought I would get roughly 60-70% increase in gameplay performance and fps. I am gonna reinstall my windows 10 this weekend and hopefully that will solve my fps issues for now.......

I definitely think this is a CPU bottleneck issue, having 60-70% CPU usage can be very much a bottleneck already when the main thread is overloaded, the rest will be held back and then you'll also never reach 100%. (which I think is unlikely to happen with HTT enabled anyway)
And you don't want to get close to hitting the ceiling of a CPU core or the entire CPU in general, what you see in taskmanager isn't the full story but an indication, there are many more updates happening than taskmanager can display, and these little load spikes can cause hiccups. (and CPU spikes are way more annoying than GPU spikes, very sudden and rough)
 
Let's also not forget that certain games are pretty CPU heavy and that there can be drawcall limit issues on older API's.
SLI also increases the CPU overhead because it needs to drive two GPU's, the CPU becomes an even more important factor.
Then you have to keep in mind that the drawcalls scale lineair with framerate, so 120fps versus 60fps requires double the CPU horsepower to get 120fps.
 
People are lately hating that scaling sucks on multi-gpu systems, but the GPU's these days are so incredibly powerful that the CPU's start lacking the juice to drive them, because CPU's haven't had very big improvements lately unlike GPU's.
Even my friends i7 5960x is getting slapped by two 1080Ti's and my i7 3930K can already be a bottleneck for one 1080Ti in some cases. (no OC)
 
To make sure it runs as stable as possible you might want to try setting high performance mode in energy settings so the CPU doesn't downclock and disable core parking so a core never gets put to sleep when inactive for a bit.
Both things take little bits of time to happen but decrease performance stability, but don't expect your scaling to increase because the impact is minimal.
 
If you want to know if your CPU is holding you back for sure, increase the resolution (or scaling) or other GPU intensive features that do not push the CPU further into a possible bottleneck and see if the GPU usage increases, then you got your answer. (for example, do not use extended view distance on GTA V)
 
But if you upgrade, make sure you get something with a good single core performance, a six-core wouldn't hurt either, because even if the games don't use them all up, anything in the background will be of less influence on your game.
But you might not want to pick something with too many cores either, because that could reduce possible height of overclocks negatively impacting possible single core performance, let alone power draw / heat.
 
SilentMarket
Game program has its own self memory stored in physical ram. The max won't be over 10Gb( at least I haven't seen one game program exceed such values.

 
Challenge accepted! 
 


 
Just cause 3 seems to have a memory leak that just keeps increasing overtime when playing for hours, and Battlefield 1 had something similar (this was from beta) where it kept using more RAM everytime the multiplayer map was reloaded for a new match.
post edited by CriticalHit_NL - 2017/08/05 16:05:33

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#45
KarmNelis
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/05 17:54:42 (permalink)
CriticalHit_NL
Challenge accepted! 
Just cause 3 seems to have a memory leak that just keeps increasing overtime when playing for hours, and Battlefield 1 had something similar (this was from beta) where it kept using more RAM everytime the multiplayer map was reloaded for a new match.

 
Memory leak is just another thing to matter because it doesn't happen so often.
Something more important is that virtual memory load is not the same as physical memory load.
A game's whole memory usage is a system committed virtual memory (private bytes). It's not actual physical memory usage. A game's own memory(working set bytes) is located in physical memory and it is lower than 6GB in Battlefield 1.

 
 For example a 4GB memory stick
 
pagefile set to 0, virtual memory size = physical memory = 4GB
 
a game uses 2GB own memory, 2GB VRAM
virtual load =2GB + 2GB
physical load = 2GB
 
a game uses 2GB own memory, 3GB VRAM
virtual load: 2GB + 3GB = overload = insufficent memory error
physical load = 2GB
 
pagefiel set to 1GB, vittual memory size = physical memory + pagefile = 4GB + 1GB = 5GB
 
a game uses 2GB own memory , 3GB VRAM
virtual load = 2GB + 3GB 
physcial  load = 2GB
post edited by SilentMarket - 2017/08/05 22:49:20

CPU - Intel 8700K - 5.1GHz core, 5.0GHz cache, 1.37v
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#46
shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/06 12:04:43 (permalink)
so what should i set my page file to? I have 16gb ram. Before I added my second 1080ti, I had less than 1 gb of pf and my games never crashed. But as soon as I add sli, the games started crashing.

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#47
arestavo
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/06 14:03:21 (permalink)
shafat
so what should i set my page file to? I have 16gb ram. Before I added my second 1080ti, I had less than 1 gb of pf and my games never crashed. But as soon as I add sli, the games started crashing.


System managed size.
#48
Sajin
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/06 14:59:21 (permalink)
arestavo
shafat
so what should i set my page file to? I have 16gb ram. Before I added my second 1080ti, I had less than 1 gb of pf and my games never crashed. But as soon as I add sli, the games started crashing.


System managed size.


+1
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Rayan94
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/06 22:35:54 (permalink)
shafat
I hear ya silentmarket, but the problem is any intel cpu with 40+ lances are way overpriced. I was leaning towards threadripper but if they dont utilize my 1080tis to the max then I ll stick to intel. 7820x is what I am leaning towards.


If you want t a powerful CPU with 40 PCIE lanes and low price, i recommend you going to x99 platform and 6850K CPU, it's more powerful than 7700K and kinda the same price with better performance, 6850K on amazon now = $360ish + $200ish MB + 16GB or 32GB on ram, it'll be roughly around $700. :)
Good luck.
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KarmNelis
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/07 02:14:23 (permalink)
6850K's core speed is kind of lower compared to 7700K though it does improve Firestrike benchmark result.  
It seems that gaming performance doesn't benefit from 6850K if the game SLI scale well anyway.
 
 
the comparison between 6850K and 6700K http://www.overclock.net/t/1616578/x99-6850k-4-5-vs-z170-6700k-4-8-w-titan-xp-sli-benchmarks-and-results.
 
But I highly doubt that Rainbow Six Siege would have the same result. Siege is more x16/x16 intensive.
 
 
 

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#51
DSP1
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/07 06:04:36 (permalink)
SilentMarket
6850K's core speed is kind of lower compared to 7700K though it does improve Firestrike benchmark result.  
It seems that gaming performance doesn't benefit from 6850K if the game SLI scale well anyway.
 
 
the comparison between 6850K and 6700K http://www.overclock.net/t/1616578/x99-6850k-4-5-vs-z170-6700k-4-8-w-titan-xp-sli-benchmarks-and-results.
 
But I highly doubt that Rainbow Six Siege would have the same result. Siege is more x16/x16 intensive.
 
 


 
FS is core sensitive. 6 core will score equal to a 4 core of faster clock speed.
My 4930K @ 4.7 gets FS scores equal to some 7700K running at 5.0+.
 


#52
shafat
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/07 10:45:07 (permalink)
The idea of x99 sounds promising but I want something that is current or future genberation and thats why I have waited this long to upgrade my x79 4820k cpu.

MSI Meg ACE Z390
I9 9900k @ 5.1 Ghz    w/ 1.30v
Evga GTX 1080Ti FE SLI @2.1ghz Liquid Cooled
16 x2 GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200
Evga Supernova P2 1200w
Samsung 860 Evo 1TB (OS) / 860 Evo 1TB (gaming)
ACER Predator XB271HU WQHD 144hz Gsync

3dMark Firestrike 20252
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3971717
 
#53
arestavo
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Re: GTX 1080 TI SLI Fps issues 2017/08/07 13:12:27 (permalink)
shafat
The idea of x99 sounds promising but I want something that is current or future genberation and thats why I have waited this long to upgrade my x79 4820k cpu.


I would not get in on the current Skylake-E platform. For games it showed a reduction in performance in quite a few that weren't GPU bound when compared to Broadwell-E. Yes it's hard to find OC to OC comparisons (I've found a couple), and Skylake-E does OC higher, but Broadwell-E wins - likely due to higher latencies due to the new mesh architecture and lower L3 cache amount in Skylake-E.
 
The refresh that is likely to come out next year will hopefully fix those shortcomings. In the meantime, for the cost Ryzen (and likely Threadripper) is the best option for HEDT gaming for single GPU, SLI scales horribly with Ryzen. For max HEDT gaming performance, X99's Broadwell-E is better overall - with the added benefit that people are dumping their X99s for cheap to get the next latest and greatest offering.
#54
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