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Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's?

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geforce10
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Monday, April 11, 2011 2:25 AM (permalink)
Hey guys, Im thinking about removing the hardware raid controller I have and just using the onboard raid that I have with this X-58 Classy board.  This card has been nothing short of perfect.  Not a single raid issue what so ever the two years I have used it, and the performance is great.
 
The problem I have is that it makes the inside of my case look not so good.  The sata cables come out the side of the card, and they have to be "drooped" over my last GTX480.   Plus, with the 3-Way SLI bridge, they end up getting scrunched up together.  It just doesent look good at all.  Plus, it does add several seconds to each boot which can get annoying when benching and or overclocking!  Everything else in my case is neatly tucked away. 
 
If I take that card out, will the Intel onboard raid get maxed out if I run two Intel X25-M 80GB SSD's in Raid 0??  Will I notice any difference in real world use?  I dont really care about benchmarks anymore, but I really dont want to have to wait a lot longer for my games to load.
Any input would be appeciated!  Thanks!
Here is the card I have:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816131003
post edited by geforce10 - Monday, April 11, 2011 2:28 AM

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    KMoore4318
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 2:42 AM (permalink)
    2 x25 m's on the onboard will get yo about 500, 3 would get you about 700.
    3(80's)

    2(160's)


    If you don't mind, could you post your HD tune using the card. ? 
    post edited by KMoore4318 - Monday, April 11, 2011 2:45 AM

      
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    rafale
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 3:34 AM (permalink)
    Two will not get you maxed out. 3, you are getting close. 4, the sequential performance actually drops because the ICH10R adds latency.

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    geforce10
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 3:40 AM (permalink)
    KMoore4318

    2 x25 m's on the onboard will get yo about 500, 3 would get you about 700.
    3(80's)

    2(160's)


    If you don't mind, could you post your HD tune using the card. ? 

    Sorry, I really wish I could, but Im in the middle of my annual (lol) 6 month cleanup.  Im on my secondary gaming pc now because I have my main pc kind of torn apart.  Im doing some cleaning up, removing hard drives, and starting over with a fresh install of Windows 7.  Thanks for the info, and again, real sorry I couldent help ya with any benches with this card.  If I get some time, I will run some for ya when I get it up and going and pm them to ya!
     
     

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    geforce10
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 3:44 AM (permalink)
    rafale

    Two will not get you maxed out. 3, you are getting close. 4, the sequential performance actually drops because the ICH10R adds latency.

    Thanks for the reply!  I think I will remove this card then, if its not going to benifit me in boot up times, or load times in games, I might just be happier without it.  Did you read that in a post somewhere?  Not doughting ya, but just curious

    EVGA Z-590 FTW, EVGA RTX 3080ti FTW3 Ultra  Core i9 11900K, 32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 4000MHz, EVGA DG-86 Case, EVGA SuperNOVA 850G3 ,Corsair 420mm H170i Elite LCD AIO, 1TB WD SN850 NVME,  2TB WD SN750 NVME, 1TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD, 1.5TB WD Black HDD, Logitech Z5500 5.1 THX, Logitech G910 Keyboard, Corsair Dark Core Pro Mouse, Acer X34P G-SYNC 3440X1440 Curved Display @ 120Hz, Windows 10 Pro
    #5
    rafale
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 3:51 AM (permalink)
    I have 4 C300 and I used to have 3 X25M G2. I messed around with them quite a bit.

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    Zaskar
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 4:12 AM (permalink)
    I don't know man, I wouldn't remove an Areca for looks.
     
    Can the Intel SSD toolbox be used to manually TRIM SSD's that are part of a raid on ICH10R? I know it cant be used to manually trim Raid on a separate add in card, but if it can be on Intel's controller then that might make it the better option.

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    Trilogy3337
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 4:30 AM (permalink)
    I run 3 Intel SSD's in Raid 0 for my OS, and while the benches above are pretty spot on. I didn't even notice a real difference going from 1 to 3 drives. I really only did it to increase the OS partition size.
    Now burst performance is another story, in Burst this thing is something like 4.2GB a sec on the array, but on the flipside of that. Thats probally not gonna come in real handy for me as a OS drive.

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    rexrzer77
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 7:34 AM (permalink)
    geforce10

    rafale

    Two will not get you maxed out. 3, you are getting close. 4, the sequential performance actually drops because the ICH10R adds latency.

    Thanks for the reply!  I think I will remove this card then, if its not going to benifit me in boot up times, or load times in games, I might just be happier without it.  Did you read that in a post somewhere?  Not doughting ya, but just curious

     
    I would keep the Areca card for its superior throughput vs the Intel bus.
     
    Put the SSD's on the Areca card and make the best of both worlds happen!
     
    There is nothing like hardware RAID, even with SSD's in the house. I wouldn't trade my Areca 1680IX-8 Hardware RAID Controller for any SSD setup, but then again I am running more than 6TB of RAID 0/5 goodness off my Areca card, and will be adding a new boot system soon: 2 x Vertex 3 240GB SSD's in a RAID  0 off the 2nd SAS to SATA II internal bus on the Areca card. 
     
    I have nothing on the Intel bus but my SATA optical drive because it's so slow vs hardware RAID. It's a little inconvenient to deal with the RAID card's BIOS every time you boot up, but then again I don't boot up that often...maybe once or twice a month maximum, for maintenance mostly.
     
    What are you doing with the hardware RAID card right now? Why not run the SSD's off of it?
     
    Good luck,
    rexrzer77 



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    #9
    rafale
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 7:54 AM (permalink)
    Not exactly true rexzer77. The ICH10R is far from being a slouch. It actually equals or beats any hardware raid card in RAID0 and RAID5 with 2 or 3 SATA II SSD drives because of its low latency. Beyond that the DMI link between the North and South Bridge becomes the bottleneck (~650-700MB/s) and a stand alone card on a PCI-E 8X slot trounces it (That is your case). In RAID5, when rebuilding a drive, the ICH10R also sucks because it relies on the CPU to do the job while a hardware controller would take care of the rebuild with little impact on the performance of the other drives.

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    rexrzer77
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 8:48 AM (permalink)
    rafale

    Not exactly true rexzer77. The ICH10R is far from being a slouch. It actually equals or beats any hardware raid card in RAID0 and RAID5 with 2 or 3 SATA II SSD drives because of its low latency. Beyond that the DMI link between the North and South Bridge becomes the bottleneck (~650-700MB/s) and a stand alone card on a PCI-E 8X slot trounces it (That is your case). In RAID5, when rebuilding a drive, the ICH10R also sucks because it relies on the CPU to do the job while a hardware controller would take care of the rebuild with little impact on the performance of the other drives.

     
    You're very knolwedgeable about the ICH10R bus, so Kudos to you rafale, thanks for that data that I was looking for...the "saturation point" of the DMI Link as you call it, is a hang up I suppose. For normal people and uses the standard bus is adequate this is true...with SSDs.
     
    However when you get into the big hardware RAID card like my Areca 1680IX-8, with two internal SAS to SATA/eSATA busses, and one external SAS to eSATA bus, the convenience of having the RAID bus master take control of all I/O functions is just amazing. I routinely use the external 4TB volume for a big scratch disk (as today while compositing a couple hundred GB of film archives), or for massive batch runs of photos, and it's very effective. Then I can turn around and have the bus master build a nice RAID 6 or 5 for redundancy for mission critical work that needs to be secure, with little to no chance of losing the data (live filming, commercial work, etc) and with the built-in RAID 6 engine and a 1200Mhz IOP Intel CPU as the bus master's controlling artifact that can be built in about an hour and a half to two hours max.
     
    So it's really convenient. I have never done it but I'd like to run two Vertex 3 SSD's of the 240GB size in a RAID 0 for my apps and OS off the 2nd internal bus of the Areca card and see what happens, as it should be interesting don't you think? 
     
    My setup for daily use is the 2TB RAID 0 for the OS and apps and basic work, with the large RAID eSATA system externally for everything else, and I find it works out very well frankly!
     
    Let me post a Crystal Disk Mark run with both of the RAIDs I am using, and these are pretty substantial with 2TB for the OS and all my key applications and programs (c.370GB worth), so it's not an empty volume yet you can still see tremendous performance from its 2 x 1TB Western Digital Black 1TB 7200RPM SATA II HD's; the external RAID is a 4 x 1TB WD Black setup in an eSATA FirmTek SeriTek 2eEN4 Hot Swap RAID Enclosure that runs off the front Areca bus master external bus via an SAS to eSATA extender cable.
     
    Anyway, here's those two benchmarks for the two different setups run by the Areca card...and fyi this card, cables, and the external RAID enclosure is worth today c. $2.5K with HD's, if I had to replace it that is, hopefully it will never break!
     
    Thanks for the info on the SSDs with the ICH10R bus, it's appreciated...I always wondered about that stuff!
     
    rexrzer77 
     

     
     
     

    post edited by rexrzer77 - Monday, April 11, 2011 8:57 AM

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    #11
    rafale
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Monday, April 11, 2011 5:18 PM (permalink)
    You are really extreme rexrzer. 
    I am not using my computer as a movie server so... For the OP having 2 or 3 drives he probably will gain performance by switching to the onboard controller. I personally actually have 4 drives and I have the freaking DMI saturated. I also have an LSI 9240 sitting right next to me... arrgh. I am a bit too lazy to put it in there and reinstall everything. The mess of cable it will create is also something I fear. I like the neat look of my rig right now. 

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    rexrzer77
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    Re:Thinking of removing my Areca ARC-1210 Raid Card, Can an X-58 max out two X-25 SSD's? Tuesday, April 12, 2011 1:08 AM (permalink)
    rafale

    You are really extreme rexrzer. 
    I am not using my computer as a movie server so... For the OP having 2 or 3 drives he probably will gain performance by switching to the onboard controller. I personally actually have 4 drives and I have the freaking DMI saturated. I also have an LSI 9240 sitting right next to me... arrgh. I am a bit too lazy to put it in there and reinstall everything. The mess of cable it will create is also something I fear. I like the neat look of my rig right now. 

     
    Hah Hah!     I'll take that as a compliment about the being extreme, and yes, I've been called that before so it's nothing new. I just do what I have to do, that is all, and the Areca 1680IX-8 was a good investment for my purposes 18 months ago, and it's still serving me well after 2 firmware and BIOS updates during the time I've had it working in my PC. Areca builds nice products, and I like what I have a LOT!  
     
    As for the cables? There are literally just two physically small, tiny in fact, SAS to SATA cables running off the *rear* of the controller for internal HD's; the external setup runs off the back of the PC box as a PCI appendage, and that's a full SAS to eSATA extender system to the FirmTek RAID enclosure that I honestly don't even look at, but to make certain the HD's are functioning with their LED's lit and the fans buzzing away with their LED's also. So there's minimal fuss and bother--but yes, the install is not for the faint of heart either.  
     
    I Cloned my OEM Raptor 300GB HD with all my apps and the full Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit OS already on it to the RAID system (2TB RAID 0) using Paragon's Drive Backup 9.x, which took all of about 45 minutes on an eSATA bus in the PC, so my investment as far as time goes and "reinstalling everything" is minimal. 
     
    I've never actually "installed" anything on the RAID 2TB volume that is the basis for all my work, and God forbid that I should or be forced to do such a thing! Cloning my necessary OS and app volumes is the way to go, you know what I am saying?  
     
    I like the convenience of modern trappings this is certain, and Paragon utilities is another thing that I am constantly using for one thing or another, Partition Manager 10.x, Hard Disk Manager 10.x, and the Mac/PC utility that allows me to "see, read, and drag/drop Mac HFS files onto/into PC volumes" is another item I am constantly using, for audio, sound, and video files from Mac to PC, and PC to Mac, as I am often doing X-platform work of one sort or another.  
     
    As for the OP here in this thread I also think he could benefit from using the SSD's he was writing about vs the Areca 1210 RAID controller, especially as far as convenience and quick booting etc goes...with the RAID controllers one must deal with the RAID BIOS and control mechanisms when booting and that takes a little time, every time, so if he's wanting fast boots and restarts that's the way he should go, I agree.  
     
    He really has no use for the Areca controller in the traditional sense, as he is wasting his time and $$ using it vs straight SSD's on the ICH10 busses that are sitting there ready for him and waiting...so let's call it fair to middlin' that he does just that. I think he'll be a lot happier than he is right now with the Areca controller in the mix for his setup...he just doesn't need it.  
     
    rexrzer77 
     



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