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Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!!

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thesynergy
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Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:31 PM (permalink)
So, I am finally going to upgrade from my $600 flagship to something with DX 11 etc...  The card still plays Crysis 2 at extreme with great frames, but I don't want to miss out on the DX 11 gfx patch they are doing to unlock Maximum game etc.  Also I plan on getting Rage and Skyrim which I assume will require as much or more power than Crysis 2 now that we have gfx cards out that can destroy Crysis 1 and 2 at 2560x1600 on full bore.  So my question is, what would be a good upgrade.  I am looking at the 560 ti, but its memory bandwidth is the same as my current card, though its DX 11 and has 1gb of usable frame buffer, though it is also short 1 GPU than my current card, so I'm not sure it's worth the upgrade or not.  I then thought maybe I could SLI 2 of them, but my board is still the nForce 680i SE SLI board, which is not PCI Express 2.0 and is running the Core 2 Duo e6850 4mb cache overclocked from 3.0ghz to 3.7ghz, and has 4 gb DDR2-800 Kingston HyperX at 4-4-4-12.  So what choices do I have for graphics card upgrades without having to overhaul what I have, and still maintain compatibility issue free since this platform is technically a PCI Express 1.0 platform, though this 9800 GX2 is PCIE 2.0 and I have no problems with compatibility or performance issues.  Thanks in advanced for any advice you can give.

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    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:37 PM (permalink)
    Let me add, I'm looking to buy more eVGA, best graphics card make in the world.  Nothing's better than the Step Up program thats how I was able to get my 9800 GX2 hehe

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    #2
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:51 PM (permalink)
    GTX560Ti: 256bit GDDR5 bus: 384 shaders.
     
    9800GX2 : dual 256bit GDDR3 bus: dual 128 shaders
     
    GDDR5, clock for clock, is twice as fast as GDDR3. GDDR3 is dual pumped. GDDR5 is quad pumped.
     
    As for the shaders... 256<384
     
    As for actual performance, the 9800GX2 sits below the GTX460 768. The GTX560 Ti sits around the GTX470. Yes, the GTX560 Ti will be a significant upgrade, depending on the rest of your system (in particular, the CPU).
     
    For specs:
     
    GTX560Ti memory bandwidth:
    128.27 GB/s
     
    9800GX2 memory bandwidth:
    2x 64.0 GB/s (effective is 64GB/s, since the second framebuffer in SLI is merely mirrored)
     
     
    GTX560 GFLOPS:
    1263
     
    9800GX2 GFLOPS:
    2x 576 
     
    not to mention, the GTX560Ti has siginificantly better texture filter units, frontend (GPU instruction setup), and idles at extremely low tempuratures and outputs less heat in any way, vs your old 9800GX2.
     
    In addition, the 9800GX2 is memory limited by it's 512MB memory (effective memory, since the other 512MB is mirrored in SLI), and the (relatively) less capable SLI scaling of the old G92 cards.
     
    IMO, get the GTX560 Ti, and overclock it to even further distance itself from the slower 9800GX2. Or, go all out and get the next single GPU flagship, the mammoth GTX580 (PSU MUST be up to the task, along with a decent CPU) or the GTX590 (same warning as GTX580). GTX580 is 500usd from eVGA, draws about 40W more than your old 9800GX2, yet is faster in every way imagineable. The GTX590 is two downclocked (like your 9800GX2) GTX580 units
    post edited by ablearcher - Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:59 PM

    eVGA FTW!
    #3
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:59 PM (permalink)
    okay, I have fired off my last edit into my post. It's done, now.

    eVGA FTW!
    #4
    rjbelans
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:08 PM (permalink)
    As ablearcher mentioned, be sure your PSU can handle the upgrade that you plan, or consider upgrading it at the same time.
     
    I would add that with your setup, you should not overlook the GTX 460 2Win.
    http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=02G-P3-1387-AR
    #5
    I_Know_God
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:45 AM (permalink)
    hey buddy, im upgrading my 2x 8800gt's to 2 560ti's because i like the price point and performance, this option although killing my ability to add any more GPU's in tri or even better dual SLI outperforms the 580, and is a cheaper solution too. so like you i am hoping it will last me another 3-5 generations of cards
     
    thats my two cents




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    kmconstable
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:29 AM (permalink)
    I would not upgrade to a DX11 card for Crysis 2.  If you look carefully the information about a DX11 patch is rumor and was never confirmed by Crytek.  I suspect that they will enable features, but not full DX11 support.  I do agree that 2 x 560s or 2 x 570s would be fantasic.  Just don't want you to be disappointed.  Crytek has not even released a patch or addressed some sound issues with 5.1/7.1 for the game and their first patch will be for multiplayer issues.  Check out this program to make the game look better:http://www.wasdie.blogspot.com/.  He made a program to enable some of the advanced graphics options that are clearly and inexplicably missing from the PC retail game right now.

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    #7
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:06 AM (permalink)
    Great advice guys, but honestly not to doubt your intelligence or anything like that ablearcher, but I read a good thread on the difference between the 9800 gx2 and 560 ti and the thread basically put on paper that the 560 ti is slightly faster bandwidth wise, it was a great read to be honest, considering I was lucky enough to find an article comparing the 2, but  it would only be about a 6-10 fps upgrade on current games, which I suppose is nice, especially if I decide to upgrade.  Now the question is, do I really need more than a socket 775 CPU that is 2 core 4mb cache running at 3.7ghz with 4gb DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 timings? to run the flagship 580 or 590? I do understand I'm on a nforce 680i SE SLI PCI Express 1.0 mobo, but will both the process and mobo be a bottleneck for any future card upgrade whether I go for the 560 ti, 570, 580, or 590?  Sorry if I'm coming accross as defensive, I truly do not mean to, I'm just trying to learn, if my gfx card is complete and utter crap I understand, just trying to learn some of the new tech etc... ^_^ and get a better understanding of what to upgrade to, with my current last gen setup.  Thank you for the advice!

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    #8
    Alucard666
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:07 AM (permalink)
    Grab a GTX 580....or if you got the funds.... a GTX 590.

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    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:09 AM (permalink)
    for the GTX590, definately yes. For the GTX580, you could try OCing the CPU a wee bit further, bu even that's gonna be a bottleneck in almost any current game. If it was a Core 2 Quad, you might be able to hold out a bit further, as I do recommend getting at least a new CPU down the road due to the Core 2 Duo you have (or Pentium D, who knows?). Why would I recommend against simply getting a Core 2 Quad? It's EOL, and still slower than current Intel CPU, for that matter, current AMD CPU, even. It does depend on the games you play, however.

    eVGA FTW!
    #10
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:09 AM (permalink)
    Oh btw, I know its hard to believe but my last build in 2008 I also added a cooler master 1,000 watt PSU with support for quad SLI, so I'm not worried about power, since at that time, that was insane even for quad 9800 gx2's lol but I figured I'd mention that isn't a problem.  I really am trying to control myself and not put down cash on the 590, but will if I have to, since it would future proof me at least another 5 years or until Crysis 3 LOL

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    #11
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:11 AM (permalink)
    Thanks alot guys, so it sounds like a 580 or 590 is where I should put the funds.  It should be compatible with my eVGA nForce 680i SE SLI PCI-Express 1.0 mobo, and won't bottleneck with my OC'd C2D 3.7ghz CPU setup?  If you guys don't think the mobo and CPU will bottleneck this, then I will gladly go on tiger and pick up a 580 or 590.

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    #12
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:13 AM (permalink)
    thesynergy

    Oh btw, I know its hard to believe but my last build in 2008 I also added a cooler master 1,000 watt PSU with support for quad SLI, so I'm not worried about power, since at that time, that was insane even for quad 9800 gx2's lol but I figured I'd mention that isn't a problem.  I really am trying to control myself and not put down cash on the 590, but will if I have to, since it would future proof me at least another 5 years or until Crysis 3 LOL


    yeah, almost every 1000W I am aware of is actually a decent unit, reguardless of brand. You'll be fine for everything but dual GTX590 or tri GTX580,
     
    As for the CPU, I'm gonna touch on that again. You still should be fine. However, I would recommend upgrading the CPU before the end of the year, reguardless of what GPU you get. I'd recommend waiting for AMD's Bulldozer to arrive in June, before making a decision, and if you may hold out longer, the rumoured LGA2011 CPUs from Intel near the end of the year.

    eVGA FTW!
    #13
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:32 AM (permalink)
    Thanks for the tips ablearcher, I have a feeling Rage won't be out until after Skryim, so that would be my needs to purchase around december probably, but either way, now that Crysis 2 is out, I'm really hoping to maximize my gfx now, just to be safe.  I know I'm on an older 2 core processor, but honestly OC'd at 3.7ghz and some nice memory and FSB, I would be surprised that a 570, 580 or 590 would really not perform quite as well as it could with i7, though I'm sure it would be better, but not sure its really that much.  What I am worried about, are the rumors that a PCI Express 1.0 system may not be as compatible or may cause slowness on the PCI Express 2.0 gfx cards such as the 570, 580 or 590.  I really want one of those 3 now, but don't want to cause instability while gaming because my 680i board is PCIE 1.0.

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    #14
    I7GTX
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:37 AM (permalink)
    If you have the money go with the 590 if not go with the 580 heck even that gtx 570 is a great card.
     
    I have the 580gtx and I love it plays everything very well I had a 9800 gx2 like you and upgraded to this it's way faster.
     
    The 570 is the real bang for the buck to be honest but I liked how the 580 had more ram and more power to run more filters.
     
    Good luck on your next card :)
    #15
    _Nite_
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:41 AM (permalink)
    I'm surprised your 9800 GX2 has lasted this long, that card was just full of issues since it was Nvidia's first attempt at a dual GPU card lol

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    #16
    rjbelans
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:42 AM (permalink)
    Found an FAQ for you about pci-e 1.0 and 2.0 - http://www.evga.com/support/faq/?f=58778
    #17
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:43 AM (permalink)
    Thanks I7GTX.  So would any of you be worried to upgrade your 9800 GX2 to a 570 or 580 if you were running an nForce 680i SE SLI LGA 775 socket Intel x6850 3.0ghz 4mb cache processor OC'd to 3.7ghz.  I just want to make sure that with my current platform I would still get a nice increase in FPS by going to one of those cards regardless of my current platform, obvisously I would want to upgrade to an i7 platform, but due to cash, I'd like to get away just by upgrading my GFX, but if you guys truly think it wouldn't be worth it due to my PCIE 1.0 and C2D 3.7ghz let me know.  I plan to make a purchase in the next 24-48 hr's.

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    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:47 AM (permalink)
    Oh just read the updates after that last post, Nite, buddy, the 7950 was the first dual gpu attempt ^_^ but yes, Crysis 1 would give wierd flickering issues when running full bore 64 bit.  The flickering though would only occur on the sprites of trees in the background, which was stilll damn annoying, other than that, its running Crysis 2 at full bore 1920x1080 at Extreme better than Crysis 1 lol I know its a 512mb cacheable memory though 1024mb shared, its still holding its own full bore on the craziest gfx game known to man on the PC.  No idea how, I thought I'd have some gfx lag by now, but not at all, at least not yet in the campaign, if they show what I'm seeing graphically in a jungle later on, I think my gfx card will definitely be hit hard, but I just have a feeling its all in the city hehe

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    #19
    rjbelans
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:48 AM (permalink)
    I wouldn't be "worried" about doing it. I would be aware that the CPU might very well limit the performance increase. If you can live with that until your next upgrade, go ahead and shoot high to ensure you get a really good result once you do upgrade the CPU.
    #20
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:57 AM (permalink)
    Thanks rjbelans, that was my main concern, just wanted to make sure it would work compatiblity wise, and would  be even better once I upgrade my CPU like you said.  Thanks alot bro, wish I had another beer for you haha

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    #21
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:48 AM (permalink)
    thesynergy 

    [...] 512mb cacheable memory though 1024mb shared[...]


    juuuust in case if I misread that, it's 512MB per GPU. They are not sharred, they are mirrored. Meaning, there is 1GB overall, but only 512MB is useable, since the other GPU's 512MB will have the exact same stuff loaded onto it. That's how AFR works, by having two GPUs render every other frame, and since nVidia never implemented a memory sharing meathod, it's only 512MB per GPU. In CUDA 4.0 however... (only works for Fermi cards, since they have a 64bit memory address vs older 32bit memory addressing system - has nothing to do with CPU 32bit/64bit, this is GPU 32/64bit memory system, not data pathways or shader width)

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    #22
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 5:58 AM (permalink)
    Already understood, though I hope others find this thread to be learned by the great ablearcher hehehehehe.  I do honestly already understand the limit of the 512mb on my card, even though 1024mb total.  The 32bit to 64 bit for gfx cards is new to me though, I've never heard it explained this way, but you are amazing and I will trust you hehe.  Anyways, you ablearcher do not think upgrading will be a problem even with my PCIE 1.0 platform....

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    #23
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:02 AM (permalink)

    eVGA FTW!
    #24
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:03 AM (permalink)
    oops, I edited out a mistake.

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    #25
    _Nite_
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 7:56 AM (permalink)
    so many people think when they get SLI they get double the ram, its sad, very common mistake.

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    #26
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:42 AM (permalink)
    Nice, I dont' expect doulbe the ram, just double the performance which is probably even more a mistake, though a few threads that I read, state that 560 ti x2 is better than 580 alone.   Thtats amazing, though I have PCIE 1.0 so SLI might not be as good, though I'd assume 1 card that is 2.0 is not going to make a difference if using it at 1.0 hehe

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    #27
    ablearcher
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:45 AM (permalink)
    as shown in the benches in post #24, [H]ardOCP used twin GTX480 cards on PCIe 2.0 x8/x8 (equivilent to PCIe 1.1 x16/x16) and there was no real difference below 2560x1600... so I'd say you're safe with whatever cards you choose

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    #28
    northernbeserker
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:17 AM (permalink)
    If you had a budget of $1000 I would just go with the GTX 570 and upgrade the MB to SB and grab a 2500K. And you would still have room to get 8 Gig of memory as well. That would give you the option of SLI later. Unless you were gaming over 1920x1200. then you would want the GTX 580

       
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    #29
    thesynergy
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    Re:Advice for upgrading my eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2!!! Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:10 AM (permalink)
    OK so I'm hoping this isn't a problem reopening this thread, or rather, bringing it back to the top, as it's probably not closed.  Anyways, as a continuation to this, I never purchased new hardware, but just picked up BF3, and will be getting skyrim in a few weeks and want to know if upgrading to the new geforce 460 2win (the dual fermi one) would be a good idea and performance boost even though I won't be upgrading the rest of my platform (I.E. mobo, cpu, mem).  I'm assuming I'll loose out on a few extra frames as the new gpu probably likes a beefier cpu, but its not like my cpu is ancient, though in game pc building i suppose it is, but it is still a dual core with an excellent clock and good cache..  Anyways, if I upgrade to the 460 2win, will it be worth it even though the cpu will not be upgraded for another year or so? Or would I not be getting enough of the cards potential because of the cpu...

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    #30
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