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EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v?

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Radiactor_
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Saturday, January 05, 2019 4:19 PM (permalink)
Is there any reason the minimum vcore adaptive target voltage on the EVGA Dark X299 is 1.2v? I've tried several different BIOS versions including latest (1.14) and it's the same 1.2v minimum for each.
If there isn't a specific reason (eg hardware limitation) I wonder if it could be lowered in a future BIOS release?
 
I recently got one of these boards for use with a 7980xe (delidded) and I would prefer to use the vcore adaptive voltage target for lower power consumption/heat at idle and AVX instruction, but ramp up at normal load.
I've got a preliminary OC dialed with the vcore override set to 1.115v, but can't migrate this to an adaptive setting, as the minimum selectable target voltage is 1.2v. 1.2v at load with this chip causes several core temps to get close to throttle point (running on custom WC loop with 1x 360 and 1x 480 rad).
I've tried using a negative offset in conjunction with the target voltage, but this causes instability in AVX/512 workload, as it's pulling the offset mv from the VID at all multipliers, resulting in too little voltage at the lower (AVX offset) ones.
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    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Saturday, January 05, 2019 9:51 PM (permalink)
    Welcome to the Forum Radiactor_
    No CPU Throttling on any of mine.
    post edited by bcavnaugh - Sunday, January 06, 2019 0:52 PM

    Associate Code: 9E88QK5L7811G3H


     
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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 0:50 PM (permalink)
    What are you considering a throttle point?
    What are you using for a block and TIM? Delided?
     
    My 7940x - locked 4.8ghz - EK Evo block, delided,  currently with IHS in place with LM on chip and IHS
     https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2829994
    Radiators = 1x240 slim / 1x480
     
    Temps have not been an issue - no CPU throttling
    Current CPU settings
     

     
     
     

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    #3
    Radiactor_
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 2:47 AM (permalink)
    I'm using a Heatkiller full copper CPU block and currently running direct die with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. 
     
    On this chip, two cores (#2 and #12, 0 based) are a fair bit hotter than the others.
    At 1.2v those two cores are spiking to 100C after several cinebench runs. Average over all cores is only 78C though.
    I've also tested with the IHS back in place and temps are 3-5C worse on those two cores and 5-15C worse on others.
     
    I'd like to use adaptive vcore setting for the power saving at idle, but the adaptive target voltage minimum of 1.2v is just forcing me to use voltage override to set an appropriate voltage for this chip.
    #4
    jericogarcia16
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 3:04 AM (permalink)
    Radiactor_
    I'm using a Heatkiller full copper CPU block and currently running direct die with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. 
     
    On this chip, two cores (#2 and #12, 0 based) are a fair bit hotter than the others.
    At 1.2v those two cores are spiking to 100C after several cinebench runs. Average over all cores is only 78C though.
    I've also tested with the IHS back in place and temps are 3-5C worse on those two cores and 5-15C worse on others.
     
    I'd like to use adaptive vcore setting for the power saving at idle, but the adaptive target voltage minimum of 1.2v is just forcing me to use voltage override to set an appropriate voltage for this chip.


    are the screws tightened evenly on heatkiller cpu block?
    try to run prime small ffts and see what the temps are.
    #5
    Radiactor_
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 4:18 AM (permalink)
    I've remounted the block (tightening bolts in x pattern) at least four times and those two cores are always the same, +/- 1C.
    Temperatures by them self don't seem to be the issue, because when I set 1.115 override voltage (constant), the two hot cores don't go above low 80's in cinebench and approaching 90c in P95 sfft's.
     
    I just think it would be good to have the option for vcore adaptive target voltages less than 1.2v
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    jericogarcia16
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 4:38 AM (permalink)
    Radiactor_
    I've remounted the block (tightening bolts in x pattern) at least four times and those two cores are always the same, +/- 1C.
    Temperatures by them self don't seem to be the issue, because when I set 1.115 override voltage (constant), the two hot cores don't go above low 80's in cinebench and approaching 90c in P95 sfft's.
     
    I just think it would be good to have the option for vcore adaptive target voltages less than 1.2v


    did you clean the silicon glue after you delided your cpu?
    Might be your thermal paste.. if you want change your thermal paste to Liquid metal on IHS and see if the temp drops..
    however your cpu block is gonna get corroded.
    #7
    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:41 AM (permalink)
    Something is going on, those temps are too high and it is not from too much voltage.
    Core Speed?
    What pump are you using, are you running it at max speed and fan configuration?
    Case? Pictures? details man details...lol
     
     


    #8
    TiN_EE
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 3:08 PM (permalink)
    Mostly 1.2V min Vcore voltage is due to Intel CPU's VID programming range. When you have Adaptive Vcore it's not just simple X.X volts for VRM and CPU running that specific voltage at all times, but rather complex inter-operation between motherboard VRM, physical layout and own CPU power delivery regulator (FIVR). On software side there are three things that control voltages and power - BIOS code, PCU firmware (inside of CPU) and FIVR settings. 
     
    In theory BIOS can program any voltage, below 1.2V including, but if that voltage is below CPU's own VID point for current running frequency then CPU will ignore setting you program and will settle to own lowest voltage. Also I don't see much reason why you want lower voltage, even if CPU could run it in some cases, undervolting would cause stability issues on heavy-loads/turbo clocks. There is not much safe margin between CPU VID and stable clocks to make a large difference. Great tool for testing this would be Prime95 (non-AVX older version) and AVX newer version as it stresses chip pretty hard.
     
    Adaptive Vcore also does NOT mean cores will be running at 1.2V (or more) all the time, with default and even OC with adaptive Vcore setting voltage will be adjusted according to CPU loading, going down to 0.8V or lower, depends on CPU. To say differently: if you running adaptive and set voltage below what specific CPU have predefined from factory - voltage will be set by CPU, not MB BIOS. So we removed option to set below 1.2V at BIOS setup as it would have no effect.
     
    CPU will only run fixed voltage if you use Vcore override setting and set it over what's CPU default voltage level. 
    If you get good CPU (with plenty of voltage margin), I can recommend to try with Vdroop settings, perhaps there is specific configuration that can help you to maintain stability and let CPU run at lower voltages. Other point - you want to keep hottest die temperatures below 83C to maintain best performance. 
    post edited by TiN_EE - Sunday, January 06, 2019 3:12 PM

    If you have question, please post in public forum. I do not reply PMs, so all in community can benefit the answer. 
    #9
    bcavnaugh
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, January 06, 2019 4:52 PM (permalink)
    Thanks Mr. TiN_EE

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    #10
    Radiactor_
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, January 07, 2019 3:00 PM (permalink)
    Wow, thank you so much for the explanation ! That makes complete sense.
    And a big thank you to everyone else as well 
     
    I've got an update re the high temps, as it looks like I've found the cause; the waterblock mounting bolts were tightened evenly (them being even was the problem apparently )
    I pulled the block off again and re-mounted with different thermal paste (Arctic MX-4 I had left from a couple years ago), tightening the mounting bolts by 1/2 a turn at a time evenly in a X pattern. Upon testing, the two hot cores were actually a few *C higher than before and the others mostly the same. But, I had another suspicion (as you guys mentioned, the temps shouldn't be that high with the vcore in use) that the base of the waterblock or die surface might be uneven, so I started mucking around with loosening mounting bolts at bit at a time while running prime95 and watching temps.
    I made some notes on which way temps were going on cores for adjustments on each mounting bolt and I managed to get all cores pretty close under load (bottom two mounting bolts needed to be looser than the top two, which resulted in the hottest three cores reaching 81*C, giving a 76.5*C average across all cores in Prime95 small FFT (non avx).
    Do these temps look closer to what would be expected for 4.5GHz all core, 1.15v?
     
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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, January 07, 2019 6:21 PM (permalink)
    I just ran 5 min of prime95 small fft's like you did above. With the bios settings I posted above my 7940x had a high core max of 87 and cool core max of 76.
    I stopped the run as my UPS alarm was going off - it did not like the current draw lol
    Room temps were 27-30c


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    GGTV-Jon
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, January 07, 2019 9:56 PM (permalink)
    How do you have your following set, HT off?
     

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    Radiactor_
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Tuesday, January 08, 2019 11:46 AM (permalink)
    I've still got HT on. My CPU config screen currently:

     
    Now that max temps are better, I've bumped the all core multi to 46 and seems ok so far, so will stress it some more for stability.
     
    Reviews for the Heatkiller iv blocks say the base is convex and apparently many of these dies are also somewhat convex, so it's not the most ideal contact situation.
     
    Because of that, I've ordered a new waterblock (Aquacomputer cuplex kryos NEXT VARIO 2011/2011-3/2066, nickel/nickel - can't post links yet unfortunately), as apparently the base plate geometry can be adjusted between concave/convex, so will stick to 4.5/4.6 until the new block arrives and will see how temps are after that.
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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Friday, December 25, 2020 11:33 PM (permalink)
    I have experminting with these options.  I run my cpu at 4900ghz, with 1.280v, 2.0vin.
    Wanna do 5 solid, and use adaptive, but strange is i set adative to 1.35 and offset of 75, to 
    get at 2.75v on low, but always shows up in cpu id or eleet, 1.35, so where did the offset go?
    shows under stress loads 90c, an didles at 38c, but still shows same vcore, so how does this
    adatpive stuff really work, and do i plus or minus offsets? under adaptive?
    #15
    a213m
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Saturday, December 26, 2020 9:16 PM (permalink)
    When using adaptive voltage, you can't set VID below stock VID. If you want to go below that, then use negative offset in combination with adaptive, or manually set fixed voltage at whatever you need, but remember, it will stay fixed at idle as well.

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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, December 27, 2020 9:12 PM (permalink)
    So what is the purpose of offset? if it still shows 1.3v in CPU-Z? even with a 100 plus or minus offset?
    And when i was at 1.3v with +100, it showed 1.39v in Eleet, and CPU'z.  So either under load or idle
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    mkimbro
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, December 27, 2020 10:29 PM (permalink)
    Hey! dmann304
     
    Not that it it matters....But I noticed this same issue with my FTW-K even with the latest bios....
     
    Voltage sets to what it wants, in Adaptive mode  had to go with override. But not even sure it has the right voltage. Even if it says it does.....

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    Sultan.of.swing
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Sunday, December 27, 2020 11:57 PM (permalink)
    Adaptive Voltage on Cascade Lake-X Doesn't work properly, Use Override.
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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 0:06 PM (permalink)
    I noticed that, since i am running a cascade lake cpu. I see override is well liked in bios, and CPU z seems to be more accurate. 
    So whats the purpose of it?
    #20
    Sultan.of.swing
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 0:17 PM (permalink)
    Adaptive voltage allows the CPU to use lower VID at low load/idle.
    So if you used the balanced power plan in Windows the CPU clock would drop as well as the Voltage, With Override the CPU voltage will not lower and will be locked at what you set.
     
    Adaptive does work for the VMesh though. I use adaptive on that set to 1.25v
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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 1:09 AM (permalink)
    That makes much more sense now, so if you use balanced power plan, then the adaptive mode will work. 
    Give me a sinerio of a good setting with 5ghz. as an example.
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    Sultan.of.swing
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 1:18 AM (permalink)
    Well it should but it doesn't work properly as in it still will give you an undesirable voltage.
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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 3:15 AM (permalink)
    Seems to do so so here.  Hitting 5 ghz, and with balance in power, i goes near 4ghz, and lower vcore aroune 1.2, and 1.35n load.
     
    Also, how does adaptive work for vmesh, since you pic a setting for 32 or even 30? 
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    Sultan.of.swing
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 3:38 AM (permalink)
    What did you set your adaptive offset too for the core?
    Adaptive works as in the voltage will lower and raise depending on the load put on the CPU but from my experience it produces Vcore that is all over the place and at least on my chip it ran way hotter when dialing in the same voltage on adaptive vs just using Override and the same voltage.
     
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    dmann304
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    Re: EVGA Dark X299 - Minimum Vcore Target Voltage: Why is it 1.2v? Monday, December 28, 2020 12:43 AM (permalink)
    I use 1.275, for adaptive, and an offset of +75, and ran tests with balanced power of vs high , and cinabench was 
    the same, and lowered temps, and vcore when idle, but was over the place too.  It is hard to find a middle for this 
    stuff. I want 5ghz for load, and idle near 4, and seems to do that now, but like the snapiness of wndows at 5
    #26
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