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Safely Powering PCI-E Risers

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hermes980
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2018/02/19 09:21:27 (permalink)
I need to power PCI-E Risers, along with my GPUs and am following a safety first mindset. As I have multiple GPUs (in a 4U Server Case) I have risers to fit them in.

As I have heard enough horror stories about the underpowered Sata to 6pin converter cables that come with risers catching fire, I would prefer to plug directly into the PCI-E 6 pin port on the riser from my EVGA PSU.

The challenge is that I only have 4 VGA ports on my 850 T2 and those will power the GPUs. Given this, can I:

1) Use some sort of 6 pin to 6 pin cable from the Sata or Peripheral ports on the PSU, or are those underpowered (less than 75 Watts). I plan on only having one riser per power cable.

2) Get an 6 pin Extender as many of my VGA cables are 8 + 6(2) where the 8 pin is for the GPU but the 6 pin won’t reach the riser (thus the need for an extender, not an adapter)

3) Use the 2nd CPU Port and cable (ends in a 6(2)) to power one of the risers

4) any other ideas/what have others done with safety first in mind?

Thanks!

K.
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    ty_ger07
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 09:30:43 (permalink)
    The problem is that you are using a PSU which was designed to power 2 enthusiast gaming video cards and are trying to power 4 video cards instead.

    Yes, after hacking, splicing, and adapting things, every option you mentioned is possible in various combinations. But safely? That's a much harder question to answer and would need to be answered with wire pinouts, wire gauges ("size"), wire lengths, wire diagrams, specific adapter models, etc. The easiest answer for safe power is to use a PSU designed for the purpose.
    post edited by ty_ger07 - 2018/02/19 09:32:35

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    #2
    hermes980
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 09:39:05 (permalink)
    Thank you. Do you have a PSU recommendation? The 850 T2 has 4 VGA ports on the PSU. I have been looking at the 1200 and 1300 versions, which have up to 6 VGA connections... but the issue of powering the risers remain.
    post edited by hermes980 - 2018/02/19 09:40:22
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    ipkha
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 09:59:00 (permalink)
    Many miners use dual power supplies. You could get another psu to power the risers. That's the easiest way and potentially cheaper than trying to get one big enough to handle all the connections you need.


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    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 10:02:16 (permalink)
    Dealing with this exact same problem right now the 850 BQ model. And I have to RMA my 1000 watt titanium psu, want to cry :(.
    hermes980
    Thank you. Do you have a PSU recommendation? The 850 T2 has 4 VGA ports on the PSU. I have been looking at the 1200 and 1300 versions, which have up to 6 VGA connections... but the issue of powering the risers remain.

    whats your price range and are you gaming mostly or mining/folding?

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    #5
    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 10:05:13 (permalink)
    ipkha
    Many miners use dual power supplies. You could get another psu to power the risers. That's the easiest way and potentially cheaper than trying to get one big enough to handle all the connections you need.

    I have a couple but wont use it , seen to many fires almost started. Why I just got the ASUS H250 BTC PRO today 3 psu's with no daisy chaining.( I have no intention of going above 8-9 gpu's)

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    #6
    ipkha
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 10:40:56 (permalink)
    Xantac
    ipkha
    Many miners use dual power supplies. You could get another psu to power the risers. That's the easiest way and potentially cheaper than trying to get one big enough to handle all the connections you need.

    I have a couple but wont use it , seen to many fires almost started. Why I just got the ASUS H250 BTC PRO today 3 psu's with no daisy chaining.( I have no intention of going above 8-9 gpu's)

    Not sure what you mean by daisy chaining psus. The mining specific boards just do the same thing power tester do, they short the power on pins on the extra psus. Power the graphics cards with a powerful psu and use a lower wattage one for risers power. Each riser won't need more than 75W for the lane and a few watts for the riser controller. It's really the cheapest and safest option. Although for only 4 gpus a powerfull psu could work, it's just more expensive. Interesting to see what evga charges for their 2200W unit (240V only).


    #7
    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 10:53:13 (permalink)
    I guess they got abit better I may have been off topic sorry http://www.legitreviews.c...ly-adapter-review_1698

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    ipkha
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 11:00:26 (permalink)
    Xantac
    I guess they got abit better I may have been off topic sorry http://www.legitreviews.c...ly-adapter-review_1698

    That's essentially an automated power on tester. You can do it manually by using the free one included with most evga power supplies. You just want to start your extra power supplies before powering up the main system. Mining is 24/7 anyways, so why worry about turning the psu off?
    Not really off topic at all. I certainly hadn't heard of such a product before.


    #9
    mektacular
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 11:13:10 (permalink)
    For dual PSU's these work great: http://a.co/5jjNU8c
     
    I recall a great writeup about powering risers, but can't find it again.  I recollection was it's okay to use SATA on 1070's and less that are underclocked.  4-pin Molex, if you combine two, can power a 1080ti riser.  Otherwise, use 6-pin, it's always safer.


    #10
    hermes980
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 11:46:09 (permalink)
    Willing to pay for the right PSU and using for mining. EVGA Support said I could use 6 pin extensions for my 8 + 6(2) so long as they are 18 AGW or better, do that way I only have one GPU (8 pin) and riser (6 pin) per VGA cable/PSU port
    #11
    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 12:52:34 (permalink)
    CHing CHing CHing!

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    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 12:56:29 (permalink)

    • Rig 1: Rampage5/w 6850K g.skill 3200 cas15 16gb, High-speed PC HPTX Bench w/ GTX 980
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    #13
    Epal2Apol
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 17:20:41 (permalink)
    Xantac
    ipkha
    Many miners use dual power supplies. You could get another psu to power the risers. That's the easiest way and potentially cheaper than trying to get one big enough to handle all the connections you need.

    I have a couple but wont use it , seen to many fires almost started. Why I just got the ASUS H250 BTC PRO today 3 psu's with no daisy chaining.( I have no intention of going above 8-9 gpu's)




     
    Sir, are you sure it's an ASUS H250 BTC PRO?  I can't find any info about this mobo.  Kindly share some link or photo about it.  Thanks!
    post edited by Epal2Apol - 2018/02/19 17:22:55

    12G-P5-3967-KR   6/3/2021   12:16:53  PM  PT   YES
    24G-P5-3987-KR   8/22/2021   8:42:12  AM  PT   No 
     
    Patience is Virtue That I Don't Possess
    #14
    Xantac
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/02/19 18:27:49 (permalink)
    it is a b250 not an H, should I cancel my order I have about an hour to cancel
    post edited by Xantac - 2018/02/19 18:29:40

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    QuintLeo
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    Re: Safely Powering PCI-E Risers 2018/03/08 12:07:09 (permalink)
    There are MANY riser designs that use a MOLEX to power them instead of a PCI-E 6-pin power connector - or you can use the PCI-E ones with a "molex-to-PCI-E 6 pin" adapter.
    I use EVGA G2 850 models to power a couple of my 5-card rigs (one of those cards being a 1050/1050ti/HD7750 class card ON the motherboard with no PCI-E power connector) without issues, though I find the Seasonic X-850 and SS-860 models work easier as they have more VGA ports AND more "peripheral" ports (and unlike EVGA, the "CPU" ports on the Seasonic units have the same pinout and are interchangeable with their VGA ports on the PS).
     
    YOU DO NOT NEED 2 MOLEX TO POWER A RISER (though it doesn't HURT to do so, if you feed them from the same "molex chain" and you already have dual MOLEX to 6-pin PCI-E adapters on hand).
    The MOLEX connector itself is rated to handle over 150 watts - the real limitation is the wiring is usually only sized to handle 120 watts on a Molex chain, but that's STILL plenty for safe power of a riser.
    A 1080 ti doesn't pull more than 75 watts from a PCI-E bus - THAT IS AN INHERENT LIMITATION OF THE PCI-E SPECIFICATION - there is no need for an "overpowered" riser on those cards.
     
     I recommend AGAINST the use of risers that use a SATA power connector, as the connector ITSELF is only rated for 54 watts while the PCI-E bus is specified to provide up to 75 watts (a few GPUs have been known to exceed this on peaks) and the riser will use a FEW extra watts to "convert voltages" from the +12VDC feed to it into the other voltages the PCI-E bus provides.
    There are many cases of success using those type risers because the card on the riser doesn't draw the full 75 watts that is supposed to be available (especially on cards running at lower-than-factory-spec TDP levels to maximize efficiency) but unless you can measure the draw of YOUR CARD at YOUR USAGE from the PCI-E bus and can guarentee 100% for certain it will always be less than about 50 average watts, it's a significant melt-down and fire risk.
     
    I normaly use https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812423198&ignorebbr=1 risers as I have had ZERO issues out of them so far, and they have both the PCI-E and MOLEX port options like some of the Amazon ones posted above.
     
    Power the riser AND the GPU from the same power supply - otherwise you are likely to have issues where one power supply will be trying to supply all of the power to multiple GPUs and the other will be "loafing" due to differences in their output set point on the +12VDC line for each supply.
    USB risers IN PARTICULAR (and most powered risers in general) do not "share power" at all with the motherboard, but the GPU itself DOES share power from the PCI-E bus and the PCI-E power connector(s) and depending on the design of the power circuitry on the card it MIGHT use both of those power sources in parallel.
     
     
    The ASUS B250 Mining Pro is a good board, if you understand it's limits, and works FINE in 2 or 3 power supply setups - the on-board connectors for the 2'nd and 3'd power supplies are set up as a built-in "add2ps" type setup and do NOT share power between them.
    Also, if you are using POWERED risers, don't bother with the on-board MOLEX power connectors - I don't understand why ASUS bothered putting those on the motherboard at all and MISconnecting them can CAUSE issues in a multi-PS setup.
     
    For reference, I had up to 5 GTX 1080 ti cards on MY B250 Mining Pro for a while - all powered via those Coboc risers I listed, using a pair of EVGA G2 850 power supplies - with zero issues.
    Due to restrictions of my current "in process of getting built" infrastructure, though, I'm planning to retire the board from active use and probably sell it off fairly soon, as it's just not going to work well if at all in a shelf/rack setup designed for 5-6 card rigs.
     
     
    post edited by QuintLeo - 2018/03/08 12:14:18

    Now that vorsholk has stopped his abuse, I'm returning to folding.
     I no longer MOO due to abuses by certain "whales" in the Gridcoin community - so I now work the Distributed.net project directly again.
     
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